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2014-15 Performances


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Presumably just nonsense. With that said, as highly as I rate Van Gaal, I think he has serious potential to throw in a curve ball when it comes to some of the supposed highly-rated players in the squad. Selling Herrera and retaining Fellaini, for example, would be very, er, 'him'.
It would that is the worrying part. In a way I could see him thinking Mata for all his goals doesn't contribute enough in a game, but you could never say Herrera doesn't work his socks off or isn't a valuable member of the squad. It would be an idiotic decision.

Especially with all the shit we put him through with David Moyes and then go in for him again, with LvG's approval to then dump him. That doesn't make sense.
 
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Marca's article (which I haven't read in its entirety) is probably due to the fact that Herrera was close to getting a call up to the Spainish NT in the last two international breaks before injury prevented that and now he's supposedly fit he isn't playing. It's probably a bit frustrating.

My view is that he isn't fully fit and although he's been on his bench LvG has been loath to use him because he'd rather give his ribs time to fully heal and Fellaini came in and did ok. I don't think he's out of favour (well I hope he isn't) because I think we lack a lot without him.

Hopefully he will come back in, play well and get his first cap for Spain and the bullshit speculation will stop.
 
Marca's article (which I haven't read in its entirety) is probably due to the fact that Herrera was close to getting a call up to the Spainish NT in the last two international breaks before injury prevented that and now he's supposedly fit he isn't playing. It's probably a bit frustrating.

My view is that he isn't fully fit and although he's been on his bench LvG has been loath to use him because he'd rather give his ribs time to fully heal and Fellaini came in and did ok. I don't think he's out of favour (well I hope he isn't) because I think we lack a lot without him.

Hopefully he will come back in, play well and get his first cap for Spain and the bullshit speculation will stop.
Where would we be without a bit of Marca shitstirring?:lol:
 
Presumably just nonsense. With that said, as highly as I rate Van Gaal, I think he has serious potential to throw in a curve ball when it comes to some of the supposed highly-rated players in the squad. Selling Herrera and retaining Fellaini, for example, would be very, er, 'him'.
True, that'd be very Fergusonesque too. He was the sort of a manager who could refuse to play Herrera whilst fielding O'Shea in midfield week in week out. Once he's made up his mind on a player it was impossble to win him back.
 
True, that'd be very Fergusonesque too. He was the sort of a manager who could refuse to play Herrera whilst fielding O'Shea in midfield week in week out. Once he's made up his mind on a player it was impossble to win him back.
He has lost his marbles if he is doing that. Yes Fellaini is playing well at the moment, but he would never be a first choice pick for me. Herrera has done nothing wrong but he won't drop his love child RvP or his captain, no matter what they do. That is wrong.
 
Herrera has been recovering from his rib injury. He is such a LVG type of player, so any fears he isn't liked or will be got rid off is unfounded in my opinion. Mata yep, clearly not favoured.. Herrera hasn't even come off the bench so clearly fitness wise something is amiss.
 
True, that'd be very Fergusonesque too. He was the sort of a manager who could refuse to play Herrera whilst fielding O'Shea in midfield week in week out. Once he's made up his mind on a player it was impossble to win him back.

Herrera will get back in the team soon enough, he didn’t look comfortable playing with his injury at West Brom so it is no surprise he hasn’t been rushed back into the team. Fellaini is plugging a gap and adding some height and strength, I think he is just being used as a short term solution and I seriously doubt there is much intention for him to become a mainstay in the team long term.
 
Herrera will get back in the team soon enough, he didn’t look comfortable playing with his injury at West Brom so it is no surprise he hasn’t been rushed back into the team. Fellaini is plugging a gap and adding some height and strength, I think he is just being used as a short term solution and I seriously doubt there is much intention for him to become a mainstay in the team long term.
Fellaini has been good though. Rooney should make space or more accurately van Persie.
 
Fellaini has been good though. Rooney should make space or more accurately van Persie.

I don’t think creating space for Fellaini is a priority really, but between all three of them they need to improve on the Palace performance. I wasn’t criticising Fellaini but I think there is a big difference between doing a good job of plugging a hole in the side and being an integral part of it. Long term I still think Fellaini’s future is likely to be either as a sub or at another club as there will be more emphasis on having better passing and movement in midfield.
 
If Lvg doesn't use him in his next 2 games then I think it's fair say Van Gaal doesn't like him. He even bought Fletcher on instead of him, Herrera was obviously fit as well otherwise he wouldn't be on the bench.
 
If Lvg doesn't use him in his next 2 games then I think it's fair say Van Gaal doesn't like him. He even bought Fletcher on instead of him, Herrera was obviously fit as well otherwise he wouldn't be on the bench.
Don't know how many times that has been said. It happens loads of times, especially when teams have a lot of injuries that someone ends up on the bench and isn't completly fit. Also McNair went off and Blind wasn't exacly great at CB, so Carrick went back and Fletcher came on to support the midfield. The only way we will find out what is going on is for someone member of our useless press to ask.

Also how many chances are we creating that the ball is going into the box, not shots from outside the box? Constant shooting from outside the box usually shows a team that is struggling to break teams down to create guilt edged chances.
 
Marca's article (which I haven't read in its entirety) is probably due to the fact that Herrera was close to getting a call up to the Spainish NT in the last two international breaks before injury prevented that and now he's supposedly fit he isn't playing. It's probably a bit frustrating.

My view is that he isn't fully fit and although he's been on his bench LvG has been loath to use him because he'd rather give his ribs time to fully heal and Fellaini came in and did ok. I don't think he's out of favour (well I hope he isn't) because I think we lack a lot without him.

Hopefully he will come back in, play well and get his first cap for Spain and the bullshit speculation will stop.

You're quite right, the main theme of the Marca reports was about the Spanish NT, the squad and the nearly-squad.

I did read the Marca article, I didn't bother posting it because it wasn't really about anything. I hadn't realised it had provoked a reaction on here. Herrera had been deemed close to call-up, but out of United's squad, he was out of the NT reckoning as well. The original article was pretty much factual with a "no one knows" slant. It certainly doesn't claim any knowledge of LvG or Herrera's thinking.
 
You're quite right, the main theme of the Marca reports was about the Spanish NT, the squad and the nearly-squad.

I did read the Marca article, I didn't bother posting it because it wasn't really about anything. I hadn't realised it had provoked a reaction on here. Herrera had been deemed close to call-up, but out of United's squad, he was out of the NT reckoning as well. The original article was pretty much factual with a "no one knows" slant. It certainly doesn't claim any knowledge of LvG or Herrera's thinking.
I thought so. Thanks for clearing it up. After the 'corset' thing LvG hasn't really said much about him so I suppose it'll naturally lead to speculation as to why he isn't in the team.
 
I thought so. Thanks for clearing it up. After the 'corset' thing LvG hasn't really said much about him so I suppose it'll naturally lead to speculation as to why he isn't in the team.

I wouldn't even read too much into that. LvG only seems to talk about players the press ask a question about. If they don't ask he says nothing.
 
Why won't anyone just accept Herrera has been dropped for an in form Fellaini?

I'm just personally glad we now seem to be a bit spilt for choice in midfield. I think having good competition for places is good anyway, especially in midfield, which we haven't really had over the last couple of years. Fellaini knows that he has to keep his high level of performances up, otherwise he could be replaced. Vice versa if/when Herrera comes back in.
 
Why won't anyone just accept Herrera has been dropped for an in form Fellaini?

I'm just personally glad we now seem to be a bit spilt for choice in midfield. I think having good competition for places is good anyway, especially in midfield, which we haven't really had over the last couple of years. Fellaini knows that he has to keep his high level of performances up, otherwise he could be replaced. Vice versa if/when Herrera comes back in.
That's fine, but I don't think we will be seeing many goals.
 
Because we couldn't break down Crystal Palace, who had no intention of trying to score, the only way they nearly did was from a hoof ball and a misunderstanding between McNair and Blind. We scored because he brought Mata on who funny enough has a bit of guile about him. If he hadn't it would likely have been 0-0 and everyone would have been seriously freaking out. They keep going on about possession and the defence. It is easy to defend if there is nothing to defend against and we nearly cocked that up. Possession is only of significance if you do something with it. We are Manchester United not Crystal Palace, we should have the flair and intelligence to be able to break down Crystal Palace. I don't have a problem with Fellaini as such, but LvG is showing favourtism to players who are not performing for him. No wonder Rooney and RvP as so chuffed he is the manager. They only have to remember to bring their boots and they play.
 
Why won't anyone just accept Herrera has been dropped for an in form Fellaini?

I'm just personally glad we now seem to be a bit spilt for choice in midfield. I think having good competition for places is good anyway, especially in midfield, which we haven't really had over the last couple of years. Fellaini knows that he has to keep his high level of performances up, otherwise he could be replaced. Vice versa if/when Herrera comes back in.

Hmmm, basically because to believe that we'd also have to believe that Fellaini was looking defensively or creatively stronger than Herrera and most of us don't have that kind of imagination.

If you mean Fellaini as part of a new way of lining up that included moving Di Maria to a position that he's less effective in and leaves Januzaj looking out of his depth, well maybe, but I doubt it. Compared to losing badly, a 1-1 with Chelsea, losing by a single goal to City and winning 1-0 against Palace is a good run - particularly with our defender injuries. But I don't believe that it's the way ahead.

So, no, I can't easily believe it's something other than a choice made easy by having a fully fit Fellaini competing for a place with a half fit Herrera. If it is something else then I'm disappointed because Herrera is a player I like watching in La Liga and who I think has great potential for us.
 
Hmmm, basically because to believe that we'd also have to believe that Fellaini was looking defensively or creatively stronger than Herrera and most of us don't have that kind of imagination.

If you mean Fellaini as part of a new way of lining up that included moving Di Maria to a position that he's less effective in and leaves Januzaj looking out of his depth, well maybe, but I doubt it. Compared to losing badly, a 1-1 with Chelsea, losing by a single goal to City and winning 1-0 against Palace is a good run - particularly with our defender injuries. But I don't believe that it's the way ahead.

So, no, I can't easily believe it's something other than a choice made easy by having a fully fit Fellaini competing for a place with a half fit Herrera. If it is something else then I'm disappointed because Herrera is a player I like watching in La Liga and who I think has great potential for us.
Exactly, Fellaini serves a purpose in certain games, will he be helpful in us not losing certain games, yes. Will he be vital in us winning games. No.
 
Because we couldn't break down Crystal Palace, who had no intention of trying to score, the only way they nearly did was from a hoof ball and a misunderstanding between McNair and Blind. We scored because he brought Mata on who funny enough has a bit of guile about him. If he hadn't it would likely have been 0-0 and everyone would have been seriously freaking out. They keep going on about possession and the defence. It is easy to defend if there is nothing to defend against and we nearly cocked that up. Possession is only of significance if you do something with it. We are Manchester United not Crystal Palace, we should have the flair and intelligence to be able to break down Crystal Palace. I don't have a problem with Fellaini as such, but LvG is showing favourtism to players who are not performing for him. No wonder Rooney and RvP as so chuffed he is the manager. They only have to remember to bring their boots and they play.

I agree with this.

I went off on one in the post-Palace game thread a bit, and I still haven't changed my opinion. Nothing about that game gave me any real confidence. We lucked a win against Palace in a way that would not have been out of place under Moyes.

Like you said, they came to defend and counter and we nearly messed that up too. People saying we are more stable now ignore that, as well as the fact that we could have conceded three penalties against City and Hazard and Ivanovic waltzed through our back line. Even West Brom scored twice against us!

At least with the diamond we had ambition, at least when we used the likes of Di Maria and Herrera in central areas we looked a threat to other teams: Good ballers, playing two touch, give and go football. This new rigid formation has made us much less creative and, arguably, no more more stable. It also seems set up to the strengths of workmanlike players at the expense of genuinely gifted ones. I don't understand how many reds can actually be happy with that.
 
Because we couldn't break down Crystal Palace, who had no intention of trying to score, the only way they nearly did was from a hoof ball and a misunderstanding between McNair and Blind. We scored because he brought Mata on who funny enough has a bit of guile about him. If he hadn't it would likely have been 0-0 and everyone would have been seriously freaking out. They keep going on about possession and the defence. It is easy to defend if there is nothing to defend against and we nearly cocked that up. Possession is only of significance if you do something with it. We are Manchester United not Crystal Palace, we should have the flair and intelligence to be able to break down Crystal Palace. I don't have a problem with Fellaini as such, but LvG is showing favourtism to players who are not performing for him. No wonder Rooney and RvP as so chuffed he is the manager. They only have to remember to bring their boots and they play.

Well if Di Maria couldn't break down that Palce defence I doubt Herrera would have.
 
Well if Di Maria couldn't break down that Palce defence I doubt Herrera would have.
Di Maria is atrocious on the wing. LvG has messed with the lineup to stop us shifting goals. They have, but only by the grace of god and forgiving referees. If it continues like this we will end up conceding and not be able to pull it back. I would rather watch us scoring goals and taking our chances at the back. At least it is exciting to watch. I hate this pragmatic stuff. That sort of stuff got the last manager sacked, along with him being useless of course.
 
Because we couldn't break down Crystal Palace, who had no intention of trying to score, the only way they nearly did was from a hoof ball and a misunderstanding between McNair and Blind. We scored because he brought Mata on who funny enough has a bit of guile about him. If he hadn't it would likely have been 0-0 and everyone would have been seriously freaking out. They keep going on about possession and the defence. It is easy to defend if there is nothing to defend against and we nearly cocked that up. Possession is only of significance if you do something with it. We are Manchester United not Crystal Palace, we should have the flair and intelligence to be able to break down Crystal Palace. I don't have a problem with Fellaini as such, but LvG is showing favourtism to players who are not performing for him. No wonder Rooney and RvP as so chuffed he is the manager. They only have to remember to bring their boots and they play.



It's obvious Herrera's a more creative player than Fellaini, but having him in our side against Palace doesn't necessarily mean we'd have broken them down any easier. I mean, we still had the likes of Di Maria, Rooney, Januzaj and Van Persie - four players who can create moments of magic at any given moment, and they didn't. How many times did Di Maria and Januzaj get the ball in good positions but were unable to beat the full back or create something?

Also, the high scoring come when we play a 41212, so it's a bit of an unfair judgement. Before that, we didn't exactly blow teams away with Herrera and Mata in our team, losing and drawing to the likes of Swansea and Sunderland, respectively. We even struggled to break down West Brom a few weeks with Herrera and Mata in our midfield, until Fellaini came on, funnily enough.

Like I said, it's clear Herrera is a more creative player than Fellaini, but if our creative players on the day did their job, I don't think Fellaini's lack of creativity (although I don't think he's in the team to give us that) would be a problem. Having said that, we created quite a few chances against City and Chelsea with Fellaini in the team.
 
Couldn't break down Crystal Palace with a midfield of Rooney, Fellaini, Carrick and everyone goes mad.

Couldn't break down West Brom with a midifeld of Blind, Herrera and Mata and everyone blames the weather.
 
Hmmm, basically because to believe that we'd also have to believe that Fellaini was looking defensively or creatively stronger than Herrera and most of us don't have that kind of imagination.

If you mean Fellaini as part of a new way of lining up that included moving Di Maria to a position that he's less effective in and leaves Januzaj looking out of his depth, well maybe, but I doubt it. Compared to losing badly, a 1-1 with Chelsea, losing by a single goal to City and winning 1-0 against Palace is a good run - particularly with our defender injuries. But I don't believe that it's the way ahead.

So, no, I can't easily believe it's something other than a choice made easy by having a fully fit Fellaini competing for a place with a half fit Herrera. If it is something else then I'm disappointed because Herrera is a player I like watching in La Liga and who I think has great potential for us.

So why didn't Fellaini start against West Brom instead of the half fit Herrera?

If you heard Van Gaal's post match interview against West Brom, he said he felt we had a more physical balance with him in the side, and his performance when coming on seemed to have convinced Van Gaal to put Fellaini in, in the following games. Had Fellaini come on and not played well against West Brom, I very much doubt he would have started the following game against Chelsea. Give the guy some credit.
 
Couldn't break down Crystal Palace with a midfield of Rooney, Fellaini, Carrick and everyone goes mad.

Couldn't break down West Brom with a midifeld of Blind, Herrera and Mata and everyone blames the weather.

Haha very true. The same can be said of the Chelsea and City games where people thought we'd get dicked but actually did well given our circumstances.
 
I think Fellaini was played in the games against Chelsea and City because we were looking to play on the counter and capitalise on set pieces and his height and strength and his amazing ball control on his chest were good assets to have. Against Crystal Palace however, I don't think we needed these particular skills; a more creative, incisive passer with good movement was what was required and Herrera - fitness permitting - should have played.

LVG will settle on a system sooner than later and may look to play a more expansive game once the defence is sorted but for now, this is how it works.
 
I think he hasn't featured because as mentioned over and over, Van Gaal team's are all about balance and philosophy.

With our unsettled and constantly changing back four, I think LVG has gone with Felliani to try to strengthen up our mid / defence, and Di Maria shifted from his more productive CM role to a left wing role.

I'm pretty sure Herrera will find himself back in the starting lineup once we get some consistency in our back four line up. We'll also see Di Maria reverted back to CM and Felliani dropped to the bench.
 
I think he hasn't featured because as mentioned over and over, Van Gaal team's are all about balance and philosophy.

With our unsettled and constantly changing back four, I think LVG has gone with Felliani to try to strengthen up our mid / defence, and Di Maria shifted from his more productive CM role to a left wing role.

I'm pretty sure Herrera will find himself back in the starting lineup once we get some consistency in our back four line up. We'll also see Di Maria reverted back to CM and Felliani dropped to the bench.
I think he would have come of the bench at some time, but we have either had someone sent off, so a defensive substitution has been needed. Then lo and behold a defender will then get injured and yet another defensive substitution has been needed. This defence has been cursed. Ander has just been unlucky. Hopefully it will all sort itself out. Signing people like Vlaar and Hummels might not be the answer to our injury woes.
 
Exactly, Fellaini serves a purpose in certain games, will he be helpful in us not losing certain games, yes. Will he be vital in us winning games. No.
This is really harsh. Fellaini played a big part in beating us once or twice for his old club. I'd put it more like: is Fellaini part of our strongest XI? No. Is he a useful squad player? Yes.
 
This is really harsh. Fellaini played a big part in beating us once or twice for his old club. I'd put it more like: is Fellaini part of our strongest XI? No. Is he a useful squad player? Yes.
That is more what I meant to say. You'll have to write my scripts for me.:lol:
 
So why didn't Fellaini start against West Brom instead of the half fit Herrera?

If you heard Van Gaal's post match interview against West Brom, he said he felt we had a more physical balance with him in the side, and his performance when coming on seemed to have convinced Van Gaal to put Fellaini in, in the following games. Had Fellaini come on and not played well against West Brom, I very much doubt he would have started the following game against Chelsea. Give the guy some credit.

Because we tried the new corset for Herrera and it failed.
 
Heh. You can cut the cognitive dissonance in this thread with a knife.

There's a bunch of people who firmly believe that:
  • Fellaini is not good enough to keep Hererra out of the team on merit.
  • Van Gaal would not make mistakes in his team selection.
Only, both of those statements can't be true at the same time so they're desperately clinging to this idea that Hererra is somehow unfit to play. Still unfit to play, 7 weeks after an injury which was sufficiently healed 3 weeks after the original incident for the medical staff to allow him to start a competitive game. I mean, come on!

He fractured a rib. Broken bones usually take 4 weeks or so to heal. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. In a young, fit adult who got an un-displaced fractured of a bone with a good blood supply that timeline could be as short as 2 or 3 weeks. Which obviously happened here. There's no way he would have been allowed to start against WBA without x-ray evidence that the fracture had fully healed. Would be negligent to do otherwise as you'd be risking a ruptured lung, or worse. It's possible he still had a bit of soreness in the area at the time, hence the corset. Which would have been intended for psychological, as much as physical, protection. When you break a bone, it forms a callus around the fracture point. Which actually makes it thicker/stronger than it was before. Absolutely no chance that he re-fractured his rib in that game and it wasn't as though he broke down, anyway. He was subbed off at half time.

Plus you have the fact he's been on the bench in every game since WBA. Which again, goes completely against this idea that he somehow made his injury worse on his comeback. You just don't put players on the bench who have an injury that is not properly healed, as it would be beyond stupid to risk calling on a player who will be inhibited by his injury and unable to perform or at risk of aggravating the injury and need to be subbed off not long after he came on. The only time you get players on the bench who a manager would ideally prefer to start would be in scenarios where they've been out for a while and their stamina might not be up to scratch. They wouldn't be able to last the full 90, so makes sense to keep them on as an impact sub. Of course, Herrera hasn't even been getting minutes off the bench!

It's blatantly obvious that, right now, Van Gaal thinks Fellaini is a better option. If that forces any of you to reconsider your opinion on the manager or Fellaini, well tough. You either need to face up to this reality or keep living in denial. Because this thread has got an awful lot of people doing exactly that.
 
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