Amorim's Rebuild

RDCR07

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So realistically who can we get off our books, either through sales or end of contract, this summer to help Amorim rebuild? If we get rid of the list below, thats easily around at least £50-65m in transfer fees and wage reduction combined.

Harry Maguire (free)
Johnny Evans (free)
Victor Lindelof (free)
Luke Shaw - £8-10m
Tyrell Malacia £3-5m
Casemeiro £2m
Anthony £8-10m
Joshua Zirkzee £10-15m
Marcus Rashford - £20-25m
Christian Eriksen (free)

Which areas of the pitch do we absolutely need to buy?

1. Left back:

We need at least one new LB. I don’t want to count Davies cause I think he is Madrid bound.
Realistic options: Alvaro Fernandes, Milos Kerkez, Ait Nouri, Matheus Reis
Cost: Fernandes is going to cost £15m and Reis, who is at Sporting now, is out of contract in the summer.

2. Defensive Mid:

If we are selling Casemeiro this summer, we need a CDM to be Ugarte’s backup or a second option.
Realistic options: Holjmund, Ederson

3. False winger/attacking mid:

Depending on how this season goes we will see if Rashford/Garnacho/Bruno/Mount will work for the 2 false wingers behind the strikers.
Realistic options: Cunha, Chris Rigg, Sverre Nypan, Angel Gomes, Jonathan David
Cost: Rigg and Nypan should be fairly cheap, while Gomes and David are also out of contract in the summer. Cunha will cost in the region of £55-60m.

4. Central defense:

If we ship 2-3 CBs we need more CBs next summer as well.
Realistic options: Inacio, Jonathan Tah
Cost: Tah is also out of contract in the summer.


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I dunno about those prices but I don't think Shaw or Malacia go anywhere. Shaw can play LCB or LWB and is quality when fit, and Malacia now that he is fit will get time to recover.
 
From the huge sample of two games that we have played under him, this is my assessment.

Defense:

- If Yoro is everything that he is touted to be then he should start as the central CB, not RCB.
- He likes his RCB to be able to move the ball up and contribute in attack. Maz is excellent as a RCB and should continue to play there. I think Dalot should be his back-up for that position as I don't like him as a WB.
- Looks like he prefers he is RWB to be a wide attacking player who plays higher up the pitch but can also defend. Amad is a top choice for the position. Can that 17 year old from Sporting be the other option?
- We need to invest in a proper LWB. From the players I have seen Davies will be my first choice and Kerkez the second.
- I would be happy with the following CB and WB options for next season:
​
Maz/Dalot Yoro/de Ligt Martinez/Shaw​
Amad/Quenda Davies/Amass​
- In: Davies and Quenda​
- Out: Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, Malacia​
​
Midfield:

- This is a bit tricky for me. Playing Eriksen and Bruno there suggests to me that he is looking for a better passer in the midfield as one of the two midfielders.
- Zubemendi? He is a decent passer of the ball who can defend when needed. Not too many other midfielders come to mind. Is Ederson a good passer of the ball?

Ugarte/Mainoo Zubemendi/Bruno
​
- In: Zubemendi/Ederson​
- Out: Eriksen, Casemiro​
​
Attack:

- I think that is where the big bucks need to be spend.
- So far it looks like Amo's system requires the left sided #10 to be winger with quality as he is supported by a LB at LWB.
- We definitely need to add a striker and let Rasmus develop in the background for a season or two.
- These should be the attacking options, imo:

Bruno/Mount Kvara/Garnacho
Striker/Rasmus
​
- In: Kvara, Striker (Gyokeres?)​
- Out: Rashford, Antony, Zirkzee​
​

I don't know how much of this is possible given the FFP constraints, but these are the moves I would like to see us make in the next transfer window. I don't want much football outside the league, so the names I mention are the players I have seen and think are good enough. I am sure there are other options; I care more about upgrading those positions.
 
Insanity said:
From the huge sample of two games that we have played under him, this is my assessment.

Defense:

- If Yoro is everything that he is touted to be then he should start as the central CB, not RCB.
- He likes his RCB to be able to move the ball up and contribute in attack. Maz is excellent as a RCB and should continue to play there. I think Dalot should be his back-up for that position as I don't like him as a WB.
- Looks like he prefers he is RWB to be a wide attacking player who plays higher up the pitch but can also defend. Amad is a top choice for the position. Can that 17 year old from Sporting be the other option?
- We need to invest in a proper LWB. From the players I have seen Davies will be my first choice and Kerkez the second.
- I would be happy with the following CB and WB options for next season:
​
​
Maz/Dalot Yoro/de Ligt Martinez/Shaw​
Amad/Quenda Davies/Amass​

- In: Davies and Quenda​
- Out: Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, Malacia​
​
Midfield:

- This is a bit tricky for me. Playing Eriksen and Bruno there suggests to me that he is looking for a better passer in the midfield as one of the two midfielders.
- Zubemendi? He is a decent passer of the ball who can defend when needed. Not too many other midfielders come to mind. Is Ederson a good passer of the ball?

Ugarte/Mainoo Zubemendi/Bruno
​
- In: Zubemendi/Ederson​
- Out: Eriksen, Casemiro​
​
Attack:

- I think that is where the big bucks need to be spend.
- So far it looks like Amo's system requires the left sided #10 to be winger with quality as he is supported by a LB at LWB.
- We definitely need to add a striker and let Rasmus develop in the background for a season or two.
- These should be the attacking options, imo:

Bruno/Mount Kvara/Garnacho
Striker/Rasmus
​
- In: Kvara, Striker (Gyokeres?)​
- Out: Rashford, Antony, Zirkzee​
​

I don't know how much of this is possible given the FFP constraints, but these are the moves I would like to see us make in the next transfer window. I don't want much football outside the league, so the names I mention are the players I have seen and think are good enough. I am sure there are other options; I care more about upgrading those positions.
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The sample size so far has been huge! We just a little bit more.

For me, there are plenty of questions marks all over the field.
Defence will be interesting. Where does Yoro fit? I'm not sold on De ligt as the centre CB, that player requires mobility, pushing into midfield during build up.
Martinez is one of the best passers in the world but isn't the best in space.
I can see why we were looking at Branthwaite and still are.
LWB needs a new signing without question.
Giving the number of needs we have, keeping Antony as backup for Amad at RWB isn't the end the world.
CM is interesting, not convinced Bruno can play there, especially against 3 in midfield or even an athletic two. We'll have to wait and see on Kobbie.

The front three is probably the biggest question mark. Rashford looks ill fitted, Zirkzee appears so as well. Garnacho got switch to the outside, with Dalot inverting into the 10. That's not ideal.
The biggest need is definitely LWB, the rest can wait till the Summer.
 
The CBs and Wingbacks make this system so we need to make sure we buy well.

LWB: Davies. Top target for this position. Has all the key attributes.

LCB: Branthwaite. Shaw can’t keep fit and Lisandro doesn’t have the physical attributes to defend channels.

CM: Tchouameni. There’s a player there who hasn’t found himself at Real Madrid and I think like players like Vieira and Petit, this is another French man made for this league.

AM: Cunha. Plays the role well whilst also has the ability to play as CF.

I think those 4 players alone change the whole dynamic of the first 11.

Antony
Malacia
Rashford
Eriksen

These players need to be moved on. They serve no purpose.
 
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We dont have to go over crazy in the summer. 4 good signings and it can be a solid team. Sell Casemiro, Malacia, Evans, Rashford.

Sign LWB, CDM, AM, ST. Technically sound, intense, young players.

Maz/Yoro- Mag/DL-Licha/Shaw
Amad/Antony - Ugarte/CDM - Bruno/Mainoo- LWB/Dalot
Mount/Zirkzee - Garnacho/AM
Hoijlund/ST
 
Eriksen, Maguire, Evans and Lindelof will all leave when their contracts expire. I don’t think there are many players who can be sold due to their high wages or the big PSR losses involved. Sancho’s transfer will go through, maybe a small fee for Malacia but its completely unrealistic to sell likes of Casemiro and Antony.

The only two I could see raising some money are Rashford if anyone wants him and Zirkzee if Motta wants him at Juve and they come up with an offer that isn’t a loss for us.

I’ve no doubt Amorim will want to make wholesale changes but LWB is a huge priority, a centre backs as a few will be leaving, a midfielder and a striker are needed as well.

Not expecting us to spend 70m plus on anyone and we’ll continue to see younger players signed.
 
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Would be perfectly content with as few as 4 signings to begin with, provided they are of the right profile and overall quality. Everything else could be addressed in subsequent windows.

1. An attacker who is press-resistant, a good dribbler, intelligent in space, can create and score in equal measure. The most obvious solution is Florian Wirtz, he is all of that and then some, and has excelled in a 3—4—3 under Alonso. We should spend £100 million on him if we have to, he is already one of the most impactful players around at age 21 and could make a real difference as one of the two No. 10s. Will only stop mentioning him if and when he joins us or some other major club (and becomes unextractable). :D

2. A right wingback who is press-resistant, a good dribbler, intelligent in space, can move up and down the pitch to cover a lot of space and create a 3—2—5 or a 5—4—1. Geovany Quenda checks all the boxes and is a very talented player in general, not just someone who unexpectedly excelled under Amorim at Sporting CP. “Loan with an obligation to buy”, if money is tight?

3. A left wingback who is press-resistant, a good dribbler, intelligent in space, can move up and down the ppitch to cover a lot of space and create a 3—2—5 or a 5—4—1. Antonio Nusa (we would need to adapt him to the role as he is primarily a winger for now) or Rayan Aït-Nouri represent good options, for varying reasons. The former would provide more offensive and creative potency, but the latter is left-footed and a proven operator in the conventional wingback role (and fully acclimatized to Premier League football).

4.
"When I played as a 'six', I looked up to what Xavi and Busquets were doing," said Amorim. He continued, "I often discuss with my fellow coaches because they all love Casemiro and players like him. But I prefer those who rely more on intelligence than speed or aggression when recovering the ball."
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With that in mind, a young central midfielder who is composed when pressed, has a good vision of the game, is proficient at distributing the ball and could emerge as a volume passer to construct the game. Being an option for the No. 6 as well No. 8 role would be a bonus, even though he would eventually settle down in one position. Ayyoub Bouaddi fits the bill (like Yoro for the centerback position before him), and maybe we could arrange a “loan with an obligation” to buy deal with Lille too?

This would give us a reasonably sound framework, in my opinion (which could be horribly wrong, of course.) We would have issues like the left centerback position (Shaw and Martínez don't have the best fitness records in recent times, and the while the former is good fit the latter is a bit iffy when asked to cover and recover in half-spaces), but everything can't be addressed in one go, especially when we have too many positions to reinforce. For reference, Salah and Robertson did not join Liverpool until Klopp's second summer window, Van Dijk did not join until his second winter window, Alisson did not join until his third summer window. We could always further improve the Starting XI and squad in subsequent windows.

P.S. If the urgency and will are there to sign more than 4 players, maybe a free central defensive signing like Yarek Gąsiorowski (who is young but comfortable in half-spaces, a good passer and 6'4", and seems well suited to the problematic left centerback position). Maybe Viktor Gyökeres if we are to able to raise money by selling both Rashford and Zirzkee (the pair could probably fetch £50-ish million, while Gyökeres' release clause is £60-ish million.)
 
I'd agree with this list from the original post but I'd also throw Mason Mount in on it as well. Get the high salary off the books for a bang average player.

Harry Maguire (free)
Johnny Evans (free)
Victor Lindelof (free)
Luke Shaw - £8-10m
Tyrell Malacia £3-5m
Casemeiro £2m
Anthony £8-10m
Joshua Zirkzee £10-15m
Marcus Rashford - £20-25m
Christian Eriksen (free)
Mason Mount
 
RDCR07 said:
So realistically who can we get off our books, either through sales or end of contract, this summer to help Amorim rebuild? If we get rid of the list below, thats easily around at least £50-65m in transfer fees and wage reduction combined.

Harry Maguire (free)
Johnny Evans (free)
Victor Lindelof (free)
Luke Shaw - £8-10m
Tyrell Malacia £3-5m
Casemeiro £2m
Anthony £8-10m
Joshua Zirkzee £10-15m
Marcus Rashford - £20-25m
Christian Eriksen (free)

Which areas of the pitch do we absolutely need to buy?

1. Left back:

We need at least one new LB. I don’t want to count Davies cause I think he is Madrid bound.
Realistic options: Alvaro Fernandes, Milos Kerkez, Ait Nouri, Matheus Reis
Cost: Fernandes is going to cost £15m and Reis, who is at Sporting now, is out of contract in the summer.

2. Defensive Mid:

If we are selling Casemeiro this summer, we need a CDM to be Ugarte’s backup or a second option.
Realistic options: Holjmund, Ederson

3. False winger/attacking mid:

Depending on how this season goes we will see if Rashford/Garnacho/Bruno/Mount will work for the 2 false wingers behind the strikers.
Realistic options: Cunha, Chris Rigg, Sverre Nypan, Angel Gomes, Jonathan David
Cost: Rigg and Nypan should be fairly cheap, while Gomes and David are also out of contract in the summer. Cunha will cost in the region of £55-60m.

4. Central defense:

If we ship 2-3 CBs we need more CBs next summer as well.
Realistic options: Inacio, Jonathan Tah
Cost: Tah is also out of contract in the summer.


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Hojlund is better than Jonathan David
 
I’d bring in Gomes as someone who can get on the ball and knock it around and he’s free.

Also aim to get someone like Ederson especially if Casemiro leaves.

LWB if we can’t get Davies I’d get Alvaro for the buy back fee, low cost and he’d suit the system.

Up front I’d try for Gyokeres. Similar to hojlynd so we can regularly rest them without losing out on what they do

I’d look at CBs to get someone pacy and good on the ball. I like DeLigt but not sure about him in a back 3. I imagine Maguire and Lindelof will chuckle off into the sunset
 
Devil81 said:
I'd agree with this list from the original post but I'd also throw Mason Mount in on it as well. Get the high salary off the books for a bang average player.

Harry Maguire (free)
Johnny Evans (free)
Victor Lindelof (free)
Luke Shaw - £8-10m
Tyrell Malacia £3-5m
Casemeiro £2m
Anthony £8-10m
Joshua Zirkzee £10-15m
Marcus Rashford - £20-25m
Christian Eriksen (free)
Mason Mount
Click to expand...
A lot of these sales would go down as FFP losses as far as I'm aware. However, I appreciate that you have used realistic values that other clubs would actually pay, unlike many of the dreamers on here playing FIFA/championship manager in their heads
 
ManRed said:
We dont have to go over crazy in the summer. 4 good signings and it can be a solid team. Sell Casemiro, Malacia, Evans, Rashford.

Sign LWB, CDM, AM, ST. Technically sound, intense, young players.

Maz/Yoro- Mag/DL-Licha/Shaw
Amad/Antony - Ugarte/CDM - Bruno/Mainoo- LWB/Dalot
Mount/Zirkzee - Garnacho/AM
Hoijlund/ST
Click to expand...
I kind of agree but:
even at a massive loss Antony must go,
Maz could move forward to RWB to give another option,
We will almost certainly buy a LWB
Sell Evans? to whom? retire him maybe, but if we are talking about manipulating finances, better to keep Evans and offload Maquire
IMO we need to sign another CB to play LCB, Martinez could cover CCB, Shaw could move forward to LWB when he gets his fitness levels up

Offload, Erkisen, Case, Malacia, Lindelof, Maquire, Rashford, Antony, Zirkzee
Sign LWB, LCB, CDM, ST

However before we get to the summer, I fully expect Amass and Collyer to have got a decent amount of minutes for the 1st team, maybe Gore and Wheatley too, depending on how they do that may well have a significant impact on our priorities
 
golden_blunder said:
I’d bring in Gomes as someone who can get on the ball and knock it around and he’s free.
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I would agree and have seen quotes but if I was a player who was snubbed, not sure I would be quick to return especially as he would still be a squad player not guaranteed 1st 11
 
Devil81 said:
I'd agree with this list from the original post but I'd also throw Mason Mount in on it as well. Get the high salary off the books for a bang average player.

Harry Maguire (free)
Johnny Evans (free)
Victor Lindelof (free)
Luke Shaw - £8-10m
Tyrell Malacia £3-5m
Casemeiro £2m
Anthony £8-10m
Joshua Zirkzee £10-15m
Marcus Rashford - £20-25m
Christian Eriksen (free)
Mason Mount
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Mount just fits Amorim's system so well. My only worry is his injuries.
 
Its too early for me to even speculate what his eventual line up will be. Outside of the obvious young players and maybe Onana, every position and player is up for grabs.
 
Selling Luke Shaw for £8 million is one of the more preposterous suggestions I’ve read on this forum.
 
The best sign that Amorim is a good coach is that he will get existing United players to perform.
 
Most of the tap ins for players leaving will be the ones approaching the end of their contracts or without much market value. Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, Malacia, Eriksen, possibly Casemiro. There's a few more who could join that list if they're unable to adapt to Amorim's system like Antony, Rashford and Zirkzee but it's unlikely they'd generate much in the way of funds either.

golden_blunder said:
Too much?
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Not saying this necessarily applies to anyone in this thread but the obsession some people have with bombing him out of the club is pretty bizarre to me. His availability is an obvious issue but Shaw remains one of the better players at the club when fit and we'd get relative peanuts for him if we got rid.

I've seen too many clips of Adam McKola talking about him with utter contempt as though he chooses to be injured. This is a player who had a double leg break at 20 years old which almost resulted in him losing his leg, and he's still come to play at a really good level for us. It's so disrespectful.
 
Rashford contract runs until 2027. There is absolutely no way we would sell him for less than 50m
 
FriedClams said:
Rashford contract runs until 2027. There is absolutely no way we would sell him for less than 50m
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Which club pays that for him? He's had one very good season in four or five now and earns an obscene amount of money.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
A lot of these sales would go down as FFP losses as far as I'm aware. However, I appreciate that you have used realistic values that other clubs would actually pay, unlike many of the dreamers on here playing FIFA/championship manager in their heads
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Those fees aren't realistic either. We ain't selling for those fees.
 
Angel Gomes on a free and Ederson from Atalanta would give us some excellent options.
 
golden_blunder said:
I’d bring in Gomes as someone who can get on the ball and knock it around and he’s free.
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The issue with Gomes is that we're already less athletic than most opposition teams. While I love the idea of bringing him home, I don't think he's physically suited to what we really need.

In saying that, bringing him on a free to basically replace Eriksen would allow us to focus more of our funds on other positions in the short term.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
A lot of these sales would go down as FFP losses as far as I'm aware. However, I appreciate that you have used realistic values that other clubs would actually pay, unlike many of the dreamers on here playing FIFA/championship manager in their heads
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I didn't I copied an pasted the OP's list.

I didn't come up with the figures at all.
 
I like the creativity expressed here but in reality it’s going to virtually impossible to pull off most of these sales. Rashford and Shaw will draw no buyers.
 
RDCR07 said:
So realistically who can we get off our books, either through sales or end of contract, this summer to help Amorim rebuild? If we get rid of the list below, thats easily around at least £50-65m in transfer fees and wage reduction combined.

Harry Maguire (free)
Johnny Evans (free)
Victor Lindelof (free)
Luke Shaw - £8-10m
Tyrell Malacia £3-5m
Casemeiro £2m
Anthony £8-10m
Joshua Zirkzee £10-15m
Marcus Rashford - £20-25m
Christian Eriksen (free)

Which areas of the pitch do we absolutely need to buy?

1. Left back:

We need at least one new LB. I don’t want to count Davies cause I think he is Madrid bound.
Realistic options: Alvaro Fernandes, Milos Kerkez, Ait Nouri, Matheus Reis
Cost: Fernandes is going to cost £15m and Reis, who is at Sporting now, is out of contract in the summer.

2. Defensive Mid:

If we are selling Casemeiro this summer, we need a CDM to be Ugarte’s backup or a second option.
Realistic options: Holjmund, Ederson

3. False winger/attacking mid:

Depending on how this season goes we will see if Rashford/Garnacho/Bruno/Mount will work for the 2 false wingers behind the strikers.
Realistic options: Cunha, Chris Rigg, Sverre Nypan, Angel Gomes, Jonathan David
Cost: Rigg and Nypan should be fairly cheap, while Gomes and David are also out of contract in the summer. Cunha will cost in the region of £55-60m.

4. Central defense:

If we ship 2-3 CBs we need more CBs next summer as well.
Realistic options: Inacio, Jonathan Tah
Cost: Tah is also out of contract in the summer.


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That'd be absurd. 50-65m net profit would hardly even finance the total cost of one squad player, transfer fee, wages and agent fees included.

Maguire would command a fee, in my opinion - perhaps something in the area of 20m. He's been a good player over the past two seasons. If he doesn't, then we're better off keeping him until his contract runs out. He's not necessarily a non-fit for Amorim's style, fairly good on the ball, and he'll be better in a 3-man line.

Shaw too needs to command a much higher fee than that for it to be wise for us to let him go.

Malacia I doubt has a market at the moment. He's a project, but young and on low wages. It'd make much more sense for us to keep him, or perhaps to loan him out.

You'd hope Casemiro could draw something from an MLS or Saudi buyer, but he is one that would make sense to move out even if there's little or nothing, given his high wages and increasing unsuitability.

Eriksen will not fetch anything I think, but he's on an expiring contract. Not much sense in moving him.

Antony, who knows. But we're taking a big PSR hit on him if we move him out now for that little money.

Zirkzee, I doubt his value will have dropped that much this quickly, despite failing to make a mark with United for half a season. Selling him for that would be senseless PSR-wise, a loan would be much better. Or possibly to not give up on him yet.

Rashford will not be sold for that kind of money. With the wages he's on and his United ties, why would he even consider a transfer unless it's to another big club who's prepared to give him a big role? And if you're a big club buying a big-role player at prime age, you don't get your man for 15-20m. If he goes, it's for significantly more than that. If no one's prepared to cough that up, then I don't see him leaving.
 
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You really don't need a rebuild, you have a much better squad than most give credit for on the caf.

It's no secret that you need a left sided wing back, but apart from that you really don't need to do much business.

Evans, Lindelof and Eriksen will leave at the end of the season. Maguire has another year option on his contract, if the club are feeling tight they can just extend that and with Yoro and De Ligt bought in the summer you don't need another CB.

If you keep Shaw you have Martinez, Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire and Maz who can play across that back three, I don't know if you have any good CBs coming through the ranks, but I imagine they'll be looked at first, though the interest in Branthwaite looks quite serious.

If Casemiro goes as well as Eriksen , then you may need a new midfielder, I don't know if Collyer is good enough to step up.

As for your front line, they won't sell Zirkzee, the premiership is full of players that have struggled to adapt in their first season, I'd be surpised if you sold Rashford, but from an FFP point of view any sale would be pure profit so it's definitely possible. But even if he went, you still have plenty of talented players across that front line.

So I can see you losing 3 or possibly 4 players and bring in a LWB and Branthwaite.
 
Nickosaur said:
Angel Gomes on a free and Ederson from Atalanta would give us some excellent options.
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Ederson seems a perfect fit for his system. Think Gomes could do a job in CM and in the advanced #10 roles, the price is right and would be great to bring him home. Plus we need some more homegrown players and young English talent (acknowledging Gomes is in his mid-20s, this applies to Barnthwaite more than anything). Ait-Nouri or Kerkez for the LWB role - both premier league proven. Then Branthwaite who could play at LCB or the middle of the back three.

Would also love to see us go for Chris Rigg in CM.
 
Rayan Cherki would be perfect as Amorim's no 10, can dribble, good at tight spaces and two footed like Greenwood.
 
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