Quite likely.
If you recall Nas came back and won on points and was still booed because of his negative tactics.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont with some people.
Amir Khan
- Thread starter KeyserSoze
- Start date
Quite likely.
If you recall Nas came back and won on points and was still booed because of his negative tactics.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont with some people.
Must admit, it is a bit strange. I don't think he's particularly cocky, certainly no way near as a bad as most footballers and other high profile sportsmen.
Nas had the same problem as Amir, he always left his chin open. But at his peak he was a fantastic fighter, just not as good as the likes of Berrara, sadly.
Kahn Doesn't have more class than Prescott thats the shocking truth, Amir's problem is that whilst he was an excellent prospect after the olympics I've watched all of he's fights since he's turned pro and I really don't see one bit of improvement. He still has very little or no head movement, he's footwork need improvement and he's guard - which is of paramount importance - is terrible.
Prescott by comparison is good technically which is what you expect of South American fighters Good footwork, head movement too, and most importantly knows how to attack without leaving himself wide open which is something that Amir has to learn to do fast.
Anybody who saw the Gomez fight would have known that the moment he came up against a technically sound boxer like Prescott he was gonna get knocked out, Gomez despite the beating he received still managed to knock Kahn down despite being on the back foot for pretty much the whole fight and he managed that because Kahn is reckless when attacking and has a weak chin to boot.
my hope for him is that regroups quickly, starts fighting bums for a while(not likely on pay per view) and concentrates over the course of those matches on taking the fight as close to the distance as possible and pacing himself so that he's not attacking the whole fight and is actually defending for short stretches.
He's career certainly isn't over at 21 however there is now a danger that he could represent an easy target for some good young up and coming fighters and season pros unless he learns and learns fast.
As for Rahman knocking out lewis we all know that Lennox's preparation was ametuerish at best and he paid the price for that, Amir cannot use the same excuse. He simply met a better fighter than himself.
To much hype and attention too early on, how on earth was he topping the bill on a pay-per-view event?
QUOTE]
It always is with british fighters though.....Ricky hatton is one of the most overrated fighters I have ever seen. good, but overhyped and overrated.
To much hype and attention too early on, how on earth was he topping the bill on a pay-per-view event?
QUOTE]
It always is with british fighters though.....Ricky hatton is one of the most overrated fighters I have ever seen. good, but overhyped and overrated.
Hatton isn't over hyped, he a classy boxer who can take out 90% of the fighters in the same class as him. The problem is that he is not the best fighter within he's class and he isn't fit to lace floyd's shoes. That said he's still a classy boxer.
I don't know why there are so many negative comments towards Khan, he's not exactly a Audley Harrison character, sure he has fought some bums, but everyone does that in the start of their career, but when he made the step up everyone berates him, he should been given at some credit for wanting to fight a dangerous fighter even if he was comprehensibly beaten.
Perhaps his choice of opponent was a little erratic given his weak chin going up against a unknown knockout fighter for his first big major fight. If you look at his reaction to the first knockdown, eagerness seemed to get the better of him, he never went into defensive mode covering himself up weathering the storm, instead walks straight onto another big left hand.
The problem about this and the reaction he has received is the build up he was given. A Olympic silver medal and his performances prior were not enough too warrant giving him his own PPV at the age of only 21!! That cock Frank Warren has to take the blame for that.
As for the poster talking about Lennox Lewis only choosing fights, you are wrong. Although everyone does it to some extent, he did not duck anyone, he had been calling out Holyfield for years before he eventually fought him.
Tyson was already on a downward spiral in the early 90's when Lewis could have been considered a opponent to fight him, so even had he fought him back then instead of years later he still would have attracted skeptics and criticism. In fact its was Tyson who was accused of ducking Lewis.
Bowe also notoriously ducked him, refused too fight him by chucking his belt live on TV in the bin.
But then every fighter gets accused of ducking fights or fighting has beens, Tyson and Holyfield got it when they fought Larry Holmes. Holmes got it when he fought Ali.
SR Robinson, Jake LaMotta, and Hagler were even accused of ducking fights.
Lewis took on some dangerous opponents, Micheal Grant for example was tipped to be the the next great heavyweight, was undefeated in 31 fights with the something like 27 k.o wins but Lewis fought him and won knocking him out in 2 rounds.
I wouldn't say Lewis is near the great heavyweights but he did have one of the best left jab right hook combos ever and the heavyweight division hasn't been the same since he retired.
Khan can take some consolidation in Lewis himself, he also had been accused of having a weak chin and was exposed of that a couple of times, but came back and became the undisputed champion, I am not suggesting that Khan will have such success but he can certainly take some inspiration from Lewis's achievements.
Just a point about Bruno, he had a killer chin, perhaps too good, considering what has happened to him now. He could take huge amounts of punishment and still be standing, though visibly out on his feet.
The problem was he was not skilled enough to defend himself or get out of trouble. A trait Khan has but lacking the chin of course.
Perhaps his choice of opponent was a little erratic given his weak chin going up against a unknown knockout fighter for his first big major fight. If you look at his reaction to the first knockdown, eagerness seemed to get the better of him, he never went into defensive mode covering himself up weathering the storm, instead walks straight onto another big left hand.
The problem about this and the reaction he has received is the build up he was given. A Olympic silver medal and his performances prior were not enough too warrant giving him his own PPV at the age of only 21!! That cock Frank Warren has to take the blame for that.
As for the poster talking about Lennox Lewis only choosing fights, you are wrong. Although everyone does it to some extent, he did not duck anyone, he had been calling out Holyfield for years before he eventually fought him.
Tyson was already on a downward spiral in the early 90's when Lewis could have been considered a opponent to fight him, so even had he fought him back then instead of years later he still would have attracted skeptics and criticism. In fact its was Tyson who was accused of ducking Lewis.
Bowe also notoriously ducked him, refused too fight him by chucking his belt live on TV in the bin.
But then every fighter gets accused of ducking fights or fighting has beens, Tyson and Holyfield got it when they fought Larry Holmes. Holmes got it when he fought Ali.
SR Robinson, Jake LaMotta, and Hagler were even accused of ducking fights.
Lewis took on some dangerous opponents, Micheal Grant for example was tipped to be the the next great heavyweight, was undefeated in 31 fights with the something like 27 k.o wins but Lewis fought him and won knocking him out in 2 rounds.
I wouldn't say Lewis is near the great heavyweights but he did have one of the best left jab right hook combos ever and the heavyweight division hasn't been the same since he retired.
Khan can take some consolidation in Lewis himself, he also had been accused of having a weak chin and was exposed of that a couple of times, but came back and became the undisputed champion, I am not suggesting that Khan will have such success but he can certainly take some inspiration from Lewis's achievements.
Just a point about Bruno, he had a killer chin, perhaps too good, considering what has happened to him now. He could take huge amounts of punishment and still be standing, though visibly out on his feet.
The problem was he was not skilled enough to defend himself or get out of trouble. A trait Khan has but lacking the chin of course.
Starman, if Khan follows Lennox's example, then he will be fighting chumps for the rest of his life.
Bruno was famous for his glass jaw, not the strength of it, almost all of his defeats were due to him taking one on the chin - Bruno's biggest strength was his punching power, Tyson said after beating him second time around that he had never been hit as hard as Frank Bruno had hit him.
As for Lennox only sometimes choosing his fights I completely disagree, there was more dodging going on than you may see at a fairground.
Bruno was famous for his glass jaw, not the strength of it, almost all of his defeats were due to him taking one on the chin - Bruno's biggest strength was his punching power, Tyson said after beating him second time around that he had never been hit as hard as Frank Bruno had hit him.
As for Lennox only sometimes choosing his fights I completely disagree, there was more dodging going on than you may see at a fairground.
Totally agree. But I am surprised Warren let him fight someone like he did. 20 wins 17 by way of knock out before this. All very well and done and no doubt if Khan had won he would have been talked up hightly.
Will be hard for a kid like that to come back after a total whipping. Saw it happen with a Young Brian MaGee who fought Robin Reid. Reid totally knocked the shit out of him and Magee for all the Hype went on to become a Journey Man.
Define: KTFO Answer: See below
That is some Fight Night Round 3 shit right there.
That is some Fight Night Round 3 shit right there.
Not at all. Witherspoon, Lewis and Bonecrusher. Three fights he should've won, but lost after taking one on the chin. He never went down, though, to his credit. But he couldn't take a good punch.
Bruno had a poor defense which was easily penetrated, he was able to take some huge shots but was unable to protect himself, check out the Lewis Bruno fight.
How or who exactly did Lewis duck?
Time will tell, i believe Kahn will fight Prescott again in the future and completely outclass him.
Is this the fight where Bruno was winning until he got caught with a lucky punch on the chin?
Only Lennox Lewis will know this, all I'm saying is in a time when heavyweight boxing was in its prime, if he wanted big fights he could have got them - the better fighters around him were a little older than him & he knew if he put them off long enough he would have a better chance of beating them.
He'll need to have learned the basics by then such as protecting your chin even whilst throwing a punch otherwise the result will be the same.
Here it is,
hardly a lucky punch, the fight was pretty much even according to the score cards till then.Look at the contrast in defense, Lewis was in trouble and covered up, Lewis then hits him clean on the jaw and Bruno doesn't know what to do, this does not mean he has a glass chin, its just that he lacks composure when in trouble.
Tyson is younger then him, Holyfield eventually fought him after years of Lewis calling him out.
Bowe was scared of Lewis as he was beaten by him as a amateur, he refused too fight him and instead relinquished the belt which was ultimately given to Lewis.
'Lennox Lewis desperately behind on the scorecards'. He was getting hammered by Bruno. I was actually gobsmakced at the time.
This is what I have taken from Boxrec.
judge: Tony Castellano 57-57 | judge: Jerry Roth 57-57 | judge: Adrian Morgan 59-55
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=505&cat=boxer
Bruno was ahead by 4 rounds on one judges scorecard and was even with Lewis on the others.
He called it right.
Starman, not being funny but yes that is a lucky punch mate - if your cowering in the corner of the ring & risk throwing one big punch to try and relieve some pressure - and you land your punch on your opponents chin, then yes I would consider this a lucky punch.
And Bruno has a glass chin, it has always been well publisized, both before and after the Lennox fight.
We'll never know how Lennox selected his fights but here's a list of who he fought in the 90's
Weaver
Biggs
Billups
Razor Ruddock
Bruno
Jackson
McCall
Butler
Morrison
Mercer
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Mavrovic
Holyfield (a draw and a controversial points win)
Here's a list of boxers at thier peak in the 90's that suspiciously Lennox never fought.
Bowe
Foreman
Moorer
Tyson
Holmes
Buster Douglas
Ibeabuchi
And Bruno has a glass chin, it has always been well publisized, both before and after the Lennox fight.
We'll never know how Lennox selected his fights but here's a list of who he fought in the 90's
Weaver
Biggs
Billups
Razor Ruddock
Bruno
Jackson
McCall
Butler
Morrison
Mercer
Akinwande
Golota
Briggs
Mavrovic
Holyfield (a draw and a controversial points win)
Here's a list of boxers at thier peak in the 90's that suspiciously Lennox never fought.
Bowe
Foreman
Moorer
Tyson
Holmes
Buster Douglas
Ibeabuchi
You say lucky, I say counter.
Well, I think we have a difference of opinion on what a glass chin is.
Khan has a glass chin, when he gets hit he crumbles to the floor.
When Bruno gets hit he is able to stay standing and take more punishment, if the ref does not step in he will continue to take it till his body doesn't let him.
Bruno lacked the technical skills to defend himself when in trouble, like most notably Ali processed, he could take a punch but still have the composure to dodge & weave himself out of trouble.
Oh and I do think your being funny, you think Foreman and Holmes peaked in the 90's, they were both in their forties!
Bowe: Explained twice, he would rather give up his belt then to fight Lewis, yes very suspicious indeed!
Foreman: Past it, in his 40's.
Moorer: Was knocked out by a 45 year old (foreman) in his first defence.
Tyson: If anyone was ducked, it was in fact Tyson that ducked Lewis.
Holmes: Like Foreman best days behind him.
Buster Douglas: Hardly a prime fighter in the 90's, Lewis could have fought him but you can't fight everyone.
Ibeabuchi: Who?
Define: KTFO Answer: See below
That is some Fight Night Round 3 shit right there.
I've watched that same bit of action like 50 times over.
I can't believe it. He got well and truly smashed there.
Unfortunately in a contact sport like boxing there has always been an element of racism......going back to Jack Johnson the first black heavyweight and indeed beyond that.
Boxers have often been seen as representing their district, their class their ethnic group, their race....especially it has to be said in USA...reflecting differences between Black Americans Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans Hispanic-Americans etc.
Unfortunately the Ingemar Johansson-Floyd Patterson era carried an element of that. So did Patterson-Ali for different reasons.
And unfortunately it can spill over into boxing on this side of the Atlantic.
Cooper-Ali.......Cooper-Bugner (different reasons)
Bruno was often thought of as an uncle Tom in the black community as he was seen as crossing over into "white" establishment. Yet he was a figure of ridicule with much of white Britain.
Going back over 25 years Charlie Nash fought Jim Watt in what was little more than a vey violent Celtic Rangers clash.
Likewise Barry McGuigan used (arguably properly a prevailing state to advance his career and ticket sales)
Amir Khan has basically tried the same trick......expanding his fan base by hyping his BRITISH Muslim status. im guessing here that the Bolton audience that cheered when he was defeated may not have fully bought into that premise and were Im assuming not "British Asian".
Boxers have often been seen as representing their district, their class their ethnic group, their race....especially it has to be said in USA...reflecting differences between Black Americans Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans Hispanic-Americans etc.
Unfortunately the Ingemar Johansson-Floyd Patterson era carried an element of that. So did Patterson-Ali for different reasons.
And unfortunately it can spill over into boxing on this side of the Atlantic.
Cooper-Ali.......Cooper-Bugner (different reasons)
Bruno was often thought of as an uncle Tom in the black community as he was seen as crossing over into "white" establishment. Yet he was a figure of ridicule with much of white Britain.
Going back over 25 years Charlie Nash fought Jim Watt in what was little more than a vey violent Celtic Rangers clash.
Likewise Barry McGuigan used (arguably properly a prevailing state to advance his career and ticket sales)
Amir Khan has basically tried the same trick......expanding his fan base by hyping his BRITISH Muslim status. im guessing here that the Bolton audience that cheered when he was defeated may not have fully bought into that premise and were Im assuming not "British Asian".
Bowe: Before his title fight with Foreman, he already agreed to vacate it should he win it - Lennox was No.1 contender and therefore it would have been the fight that was expected. How do we know Lennox didn't later turn down fights with Bowe?
Foreman: Became world champion in the 90's, maybe past his peak, but still a world champion - exciting proposition to fight a world champion to say at the least.
Moorer: Beat Holyfield & Botha in the 90's, much more appealing than the who's who of ex doormen that Lewis fought.
Holmes: Best days may have been behind him, but still in the top ten boxers of the 90's
Buster Douglas: Hardly a prime fighter? Beat Tyson when Tyson was at his best.
Ibeabuchi: Undefeated before going to prision, was viewed as 2nd hottest prospect after Lennox.
I respect you opinion that Lennox ticked all the boxes for you, but for me, I want a fighter who doesn't care who he fights, that fights to win, anytime or place - not someone who bide's his time waiting for opportunities to open up.
Foreman: Became world champion in the 90's, maybe past his peak, but still a world champion - exciting proposition to fight a world champion to say at the least.
Moorer: Beat Holyfield & Botha in the 90's, much more appealing than the who's who of ex doormen that Lewis fought.
Holmes: Best days may have been behind him, but still in the top ten boxers of the 90's
Buster Douglas: Hardly a prime fighter? Beat Tyson when Tyson was at his best.
Ibeabuchi: Undefeated before going to prision, was viewed as 2nd hottest prospect after Lennox.
I respect you opinion that Lennox ticked all the boxes for you, but for me, I want a fighter who doesn't care who he fights, that fights to win, anytime or place - not someone who bide's his time waiting for opportunities to open up.
There's plenty of moments where you look at that clip and hold your face mouthing 'Ouch!'. But the part I almost throw up on is where his left ear shudders and distorts. Almost looks video shopped.
Totally agree. To be a boxer you have to have self-belief, but he always comes across as a really nice, honest, sensible lad.
BIG element of racism in the reaction, no question. Depressing.
6-1 should've bet £50.
I put a tenner on prescott and got odds of 9/1 two minutes before the first bell from my local bookie
I don't buy any of this racism bollocks.
I was happy to see him knocked out (not in the way others were though, I think it was a good thing personally), but a lot of my mates were cheering. Not a single one of them for racist reasons either.
Boxing is about building people up and making them seem invincible, but the public can generally see bollocks even if they want to believe it. Khan was fast going the nas route, even faster than nas himself. He needed a slap and boy did he get one. That's boxing for you, whatever happens you want to see the cocky guy win hard or lose hard.
It doesn't happen with Hatton simply because he's a decent guy who tries his hardest. Anyone with any sense knew he was the best out there, but he was tough enough to possibly beat the best. He gets respect for that. Just like Khan will if he comes back and genuinely does improve and learn from this.
A couple of genuine wins with less fuss and more effort, and Khan will be back with the fighting fans.
I was happy to see him knocked out (not in the way others were though, I think it was a good thing personally), but a lot of my mates were cheering. Not a single one of them for racist reasons either.
Boxing is about building people up and making them seem invincible, but the public can generally see bollocks even if they want to believe it. Khan was fast going the nas route, even faster than nas himself. He needed a slap and boy did he get one. That's boxing for you, whatever happens you want to see the cocky guy win hard or lose hard.
It doesn't happen with Hatton simply because he's a decent guy who tries his hardest. Anyone with any sense knew he was the best out there, but he was tough enough to possibly beat the best. He gets respect for that. Just like Khan will if he comes back and genuinely does improve and learn from this.
A couple of genuine wins with less fuss and more effort, and Khan will be back with the fighting fans.
Unsuprising reaction Plech, you're always the first to jump to racism as the answer
People don't like overhype, and they don't like to be made to feel mugs. In the aftermath of a defeat like that, the natural conclusion is to write him off as a dud. And people like to see a guy fall from grace, thats why the media specialise in building someone up to knock em down again. And people like to believe they were right all along, people always slag off young talent, because the likelyhood is they won't make it to the very top. They're witnessing the process of making it, not the finished product, its easier to criticise at that point.
Some racists might have been slagging him off for racist reasons. And they can feck off. But once again you seek to tar everyone with the brush without even considering the other reasons why the reaction was such
I remember earlier in Lewis career he called out Tyson several times saying he wanted to fight him, I think it was actually Tyson who dodged the fight and only had it when he was desperate for the money. Think it was around the time he beat Ruddock
My mate's brother went to the same gym as him. And by all accounts he was a decent lad. And yeah, there's a huge element of racism, which as you said is depressing. Too think Amir and his father have tried their best prove their Britishness(not that they should have to). He's always drapped in the Union Flag. . .almost to point where you could actually question if he's a BNP sympathiser or not.
Nah, I don't think that's the case at all. I think Plech is usually spot on about most things. . .except when he goes mental about formations.
When slurring everyone generalistically with casual unprovable accusations, its quite easy to pass off what you're saying as 'spot on'
I have no doubt a minority have racist intent in their celebrations since his defeat. But there will be plenty others who took delight for other reasons like those I outlined. When you build someone up, give him the hype, and he gets smashed, people are gunna take delight. Thats human nature, especially in Britain
The only time I can remember calling anyone racist on here, aside from in jest, was in reaction to a proper rant by that RR poster, very funny poster I can't remember his name, but it was a full-on diatribe, it wasn't really open to discussion whether it was racist or not.
Don't recall Bruno getting the same stick when he lost, despite him being overhyped by the media. As I said earlier, it's strange. We dislike winners in this country. . .but Amir's hardly a winner. I don't think you're old enough to remember Eddy the Eagle. Well loved by all. That's the mentality of this country.
according to les Kershaw, "There are no wingers as such in Brazil they all play a 4-2-2-2 formation. So the full backs have to tear up and down the wings."----------VDS--------
Rafa-Rio-Vidic-Evra
Rafa-Scholes-Cazza-Evra
Rafa-Ronnie-Rooney-Evra
Rafa-Tevez-Berbatov-Evra
Evra's superman, so I think it could possible to play that formation of yours.
I love Evra.
I love Evra.
I would have loved to have seen him become a great British sportsman. His ethnicity or faith shouldn't matter but I think it would have done great things for Brits to have been able to cheer on a British/Asian Muslim as a top sporting personality.
Brilliant at the olympics, a great ambassador for British sport and a geniunely nice guy (whenever he does try and talk tough it sounds false). However I personally don't think he has the required assets to compete in the intense and ruthless world of professional boxing not least a chin that can take a half decent punch.
I think if he had stayed amateur he would have had a sporting future. He would have been great to see at 2012. Sadly that's not the path British boxers take with the silly money on offer for professional bouts.
Brilliant at the olympics, a great ambassador for British sport and a geniunely nice guy (whenever he does try and talk tough it sounds false). However I personally don't think he has the required assets to compete in the intense and ruthless world of professional boxing not least a chin that can take a half decent punch.
I think if he had stayed amateur he would have had a sporting future. He would have been great to see at 2012. Sadly that's not the path British boxers take with the silly money on offer for professional bouts.