Before I stick my foot in my mouth, wouldn't this 'dividend tax' be just new political-speak for basically capital gains? I'm assuming they're coming out with this as capital gains is now well understood, so they're obfuscating the issue by coming up with a new term, and grafting the image of cute but frightened looking retirees?
American Politics
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
Before I stick my foot in my mouth, wouldn't this 'dividend tax' be just new political-speak for basically capital gains? I'm assuming they're coming out with this as capital gains is now well understood, so they're obfuscating the issue by coming up with a new term, and grafting the image of cute but frightened looking retirees?
I'd forgo a squadron of F-35's to hire mobs of teachers, road crews or what have you.
No, the dividend tax is separate from the capital gains tax. It is specifically a taxation on income in the form of dividends. The right-wing contends that this is "double taxation" because dividends would have come out of corporate profits, which would already have been taxed.
Of course, since "corporations are people," (or at least separate entities from the individual shareholders), this is utter nonsense.
The last part is pretty much accurate, though. Your typical retiree doen't live off of dividends, he's living off of the principal and accumulated savings of his life, possibly supplemented by social security and (if he's really lucky,) a pension. Anyone who's getting a significant amount of dividend payments is probably at the very least quite comfortably well-off.
Thanks Excal. I understand the difference but I just seemed to find the dividend tax and capital gains referenced together, and I thought they incurred the same rate. You're right though that they are truly different in substance. In fairness to the ad I suppose it is a retiree concern as they'd have dividend (income) heavy portfolios.
Should have realized the difference anyway as I haven't recently heard truly substantive debate on ridding the capital gains tax anyway. Reich's book had plenty to say about that as well.
Prior to the Bush tax cuts, dividend income was taxed the same as regular income. Right now, they're taxed at 15% over a certain level, and 0% under that. There's no reason it needs to be that low, especially since the majority of dividend income is paid to the wealthy, not to lower-middle-income retirees.
Good news....Herr Priebus is running for RNC chair again.
just saw that.
I am still puzzled how the GOP is going to keep telling their white voter base that Blacks are all on welfare and Hispanics are mainly illegals and here to take their jobs....
And attract minority voters.
why do we need all those bases overseas. we need to reduce them. Military spending is a huge portion of what adds to our defecits. I'm sure old man McCain wont like that.
just saw that.
I am still puzzled how the GOP is going to keep telling their white voter base that Blacks are all on welfare and Hispanics are mainly illegals and here to take their jobs....
And attract minority voters.
Better salesmanship, apparently.
How ridiculously progressive and forward thinking of you, you should be ashamed of yourself!
Wouldnt it be great if he got Dr Franken Von Krauthammer involved as well?
edit btw I just realized that Krauthammer is Paraplegic which makes sense for those who wondered if he was an reanimated corpse during the election coverage.
Wouldnt it be great if he got Dr Franken Von Krauthammer involved as well?
edit btw I just realized that Krauthammer is Paraplegic which makes sense for those who wondered if he was an reanimated corpse during the election coverage.
I had no idea he was in a wheelchair after all this time of seeing him. If only he had a scar and one black glove.
She legal yet?
He genuinely has a nazi fetish does Herr Beck
She's probably 30.....
Those gymnast chicks always look younger than they are. Except in China where they're young than they report them to be....
She's 16.
Legal in Norway then.
House of Cards being remade into American politics for Netflix. It stars Kevin Spacey in the lead, and - more importantly - is being produced and directed by David Fincher (among others). Trailer was a bit meh, though it looks amazing visually. I do like the fact that it seems they are making this for adult audiences though, and not strictly aiming for commercial success. Should be interesting.
little Lindsay Graham spinning his lies about Benghazi.
boo hoo... They want a another election so Romney can win this time.
so what does he think about Bush and Chenney outting Valarie Plaine a CIA operative...an act of treason?
boo hoo... They want a another election so Romney can win this time.
so what does he think about Bush and Chenney outting Valarie Plaine a CIA operative...an act of treason?
Netflix are making their own shows now?
rubio in iowa last night, raising gobs of money, i think its pretty obvious he'll be the nominee 2016.
too early to tell.
Florida is a must win for GOP so there is every reason to think Rubio will be a shoe in...
but there are others like Thune, Ryan...
Charlie Chris will run as a democrat in 2014 and will be favorite to win. The democrats will also have increased their registration. If Chris does become governor, expect early voting and no voter suppression efforts like this year.
In effect the 2016 election may well be decided in 2014.
They won the rights to it in a bidding war with AMC and HBO. Which is good, because they'll release all the episodes in the first season simultaneously on February 1st.
yeah but those guys aren't even slightly brown.....remember the new strategy...HISPANDERING
Anonymous claims to have foiled Karl Rove's Plans to Steal Election
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...ve-foiled-Karl-Rove-s-Plans-to-Steal-Election
Two days after the Nov 6th election Anonymous posted an open letter. Partial text from the Letter from Anonymous explaining how they discovered Rove's election scam and blocked it from flipping the election in three key States [Ohio, Virginia and Florida] on election night follows;
“ 8 November 2012
…. We chose to take action against those who have subverted the will of the people in past elections, which resulted in terrible destruction across the globe. We began following the “digital traffic of one Karl Rove, a disrespecter of the Rule of Law, knowing that he claimed to be Kingmaker while grifting vast wealth from barons who gladly handed him gold to anoint another King while looking the other way.
After a rather short time, we identified the digital structure of Karl’s operation and even that of his ORCA. This was an easy task in that the barn doors were left open and the wind swept us inside.So what do we do with these doors? Do we leave them open and catch the thieves as they steal the prize? Or do we close them so they cannot steal the prize?Our decision —protect the citizensWe coded and created, what we call, The Great Oz. A targeted password protected firewall that we tested and refined for the past weeks. We placed this code on more than one of the digital tunnels and their destinations that Karl’s not so smart worker bees planned to use on election night. We noticed that these tunnels were strategically placed to allow for tunnel rats to race to the server sewers from three different states. Ah yes, Karl tried to make it appear that there were more than three but we quickly saw the folly of his ploy.We watched as Karl’s little boys and girls confidently ran their tests while Karl told his barons to smoke cigars.
We watched as Karl’s speared ORCA whale was beached, rotting with a strong stench across his American plalyground, unable to be resuscitated. We watched as Karl’s weak corrupters repeatedly tried to penetrate The Great Oz. These children of his were at a loss–how many times and how many passwords did they try–exactly 105.
We work without remuneration. Karl, on the other hand, takes ships of gold from barons to do their bidding. We sank those ships and we have a warning for Karl–sail again at your peril. We may just put all the evidence into a tidy little package and give it to a painfully bored nemesis hanging out in a certain embassy in London. " entire text of letter at http://www.velvetrevolution.us/...
Thom Hartmann featured a story titled "Karl Rove Loses Election After Being Checkmated By Cyber Sleuths?" on Occupy for Accountability's website on his show yesterday. Personally I'm surprised this hasn't been news everywhere before this. Occupy for Accountability "urged computer experts to contact us with information about any election manipulation of the tabulation results." The Anonymous group "The Protectors" responded to the call but did not claim the Million Dollar prize because they began their election protection weeks before Occupy for Accountability posted their reward.
We Received A Letter
On November 12th, we received a letter from “The Protectors,” apparently a group of white hat cyber sleuths, mentioning our reward and stating that two months ago, they began monitoring the “digital traffic of one Karl Rove, a disrespecter of the Rule of Law, knowing that he claimed to be Kingmaker while grifting vast wealth from barons who gladly handed him gold to anoint another King while looking the other way.”
“The Protectors” said that they had identified the digital structure of Rove’s operation and of ORCA, a Republican get out the vote software application. After finding open “doors” in the systems, they created a “password protected firewall” called “The Great Oz,” and installed it on servers that Rove planned to use on election night to re-route and change election results “from three states.”
The letter indicated that “ORCA Killer” was launched at 10am EST and “The Great Oz” at 8pm EST on November 6th. “The Protectors” watched as ORCA crashed and failed throughout Election Day. They watched as Rove’s computer techs tried 105 times to penetrate “The Great Oz” using different means and passwords.
Finally, they issued the following warning to Mr. Rove: don’t do it again or they would turn over the evidence to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
Interesting stuff.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...ve-foiled-Karl-Rove-s-Plans-to-Steal-Election
Two days after the Nov 6th election Anonymous posted an open letter. Partial text from the Letter from Anonymous explaining how they discovered Rove's election scam and blocked it from flipping the election in three key States [Ohio, Virginia and Florida] on election night follows;
“ 8 November 2012
…. We chose to take action against those who have subverted the will of the people in past elections, which resulted in terrible destruction across the globe. We began following the “digital traffic of one Karl Rove, a disrespecter of the Rule of Law, knowing that he claimed to be Kingmaker while grifting vast wealth from barons who gladly handed him gold to anoint another King while looking the other way.
After a rather short time, we identified the digital structure of Karl’s operation and even that of his ORCA. This was an easy task in that the barn doors were left open and the wind swept us inside.So what do we do with these doors? Do we leave them open and catch the thieves as they steal the prize? Or do we close them so they cannot steal the prize?Our decision —protect the citizensWe coded and created, what we call, The Great Oz. A targeted password protected firewall that we tested and refined for the past weeks. We placed this code on more than one of the digital tunnels and their destinations that Karl’s not so smart worker bees planned to use on election night. We noticed that these tunnels were strategically placed to allow for tunnel rats to race to the server sewers from three different states. Ah yes, Karl tried to make it appear that there were more than three but we quickly saw the folly of his ploy.We watched as Karl’s little boys and girls confidently ran their tests while Karl told his barons to smoke cigars.
We watched as Karl’s speared ORCA whale was beached, rotting with a strong stench across his American plalyground, unable to be resuscitated. We watched as Karl’s weak corrupters repeatedly tried to penetrate The Great Oz. These children of his were at a loss–how many times and how many passwords did they try–exactly 105.
We work without remuneration. Karl, on the other hand, takes ships of gold from barons to do their bidding. We sank those ships and we have a warning for Karl–sail again at your peril. We may just put all the evidence into a tidy little package and give it to a painfully bored nemesis hanging out in a certain embassy in London. " entire text of letter at http://www.velvetrevolution.us/...
Thom Hartmann featured a story titled "Karl Rove Loses Election After Being Checkmated By Cyber Sleuths?" on Occupy for Accountability's website on his show yesterday. Personally I'm surprised this hasn't been news everywhere before this. Occupy for Accountability "urged computer experts to contact us with information about any election manipulation of the tabulation results." The Anonymous group "The Protectors" responded to the call but did not claim the Million Dollar prize because they began their election protection weeks before Occupy for Accountability posted their reward.
We Received A Letter
On November 12th, we received a letter from “The Protectors,” apparently a group of white hat cyber sleuths, mentioning our reward and stating that two months ago, they began monitoring the “digital traffic of one Karl Rove, a disrespecter of the Rule of Law, knowing that he claimed to be Kingmaker while grifting vast wealth from barons who gladly handed him gold to anoint another King while looking the other way.”
“The Protectors” said that they had identified the digital structure of Rove’s operation and of ORCA, a Republican get out the vote software application. After finding open “doors” in the systems, they created a “password protected firewall” called “The Great Oz,” and installed it on servers that Rove planned to use on election night to re-route and change election results “from three states.”
The letter indicated that “ORCA Killer” was launched at 10am EST and “The Great Oz” at 8pm EST on November 6th. “The Protectors” watched as ORCA crashed and failed throughout Election Day. They watched as Rove’s computer techs tried 105 times to penetrate “The Great Oz” using different means and passwords.
Finally, they issued the following warning to Mr. Rove: don’t do it again or they would turn over the evidence to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
Interesting stuff.
Karl Rove Loses Election After Being Checkmated By Cyber Sleuths?
Tom Hartman's site gives more details.
http://www.occupyforaccountability.org/index.php?q=node/1075
Last month, we offered a million dollar reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone who rigged a federal election on November 6th. We urged computer experts to contact us with information about any election manipulation of the tabulation results.
We Received A Letter
On November 12th, we received a letter from “The Protectors,” apparently a group of white hat cyber sleuths, mentioning our reward and stating that two months ago, they began monitoring the “digital traffic of one Karl Rove, a disrespecter of the Rule of Law, knowing that he claimed to be Kingmaker while grifting vast wealth from barons who gladly handed him gold to anoint another King while looking the other way.”
“The Protectors” said that they had identified the digital structure of Rove’s operation and of ORCA, a Republican get out the vote software application. After finding open “doors” in the systems, they created a “password protected firewall” called “The Great Oz,” and installed it on servers that Rove planned to use on election night to re-route and change election results “from three states.”
The letter indicated that “ORCA Killer” was launched at 10am EST and “The Great Oz” at 8pm EST on November 6th. “The Protectors” watched as ORCA crashed and failed throughout Election Day. They watched as Rove’s computer techs tried 105 times to penetrate “The Great Oz” using different means and passwords.
Finally, they issued the following warning to Mr. Rove: don’t do it again or they would turn over the evidence to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
We are not in a position to vouch for the contents of this letter anymore than we can vouch for the video by Anonymous warning Karl Rove not to rig the election. However, we can analyze that content under the prism of Mr. Rove’s history and facts over the past few weeks. We do so in the hope that this will lead to an investigation of Mr. Rove’s entire operation ala General David Petraeus. In that spirit, we provided this information to the FBI prior to publication, and followed up after publication. For years, we have campaigned for a complete investigation of Mr. Rove. And we have provided extensive legal memos and evidence to the FBI to support such an investigation.
We urge others who have information to about election tampering or other criminal violations by Mr. Rove, including violations of campaign finance laws, to provide that evidence to the FBI. We also urge people who gave money to Mr. Rove and his organizations to contact the FBI if they were misled, promised things that did not happen, or were otherwise defrauded.
Karl Rove has a history of rigging elections going back several decades, including in 2004 when he orchestrated a man-in-the-middle attack to change the votes from Ohio.
In 2012, Mr. Rove’s SuperPacs raised and spent hundreds of millions on behalf of GOP candidates. He courted billionaires and promised them that his candidates would win.
Days before the 2012 election, Mr. Rove predicted a strong Romney win. His spinners lionized him in articles that portrayed him as invincible.
On election night, Mr. Rove worked the three states that held the key to the election – Ohio, Florida and Virginia. But when he tried to access the Ohio election website, he kept getting error messages.
Finally, immediately after Ohio was called for President Obama around 11:30 EST, Mr. Rove appeared on FOX News to dispute the call, saying the election there is far from settled and the call was “premature.”
Fox News’s Chris Wallace said the Romney campaign does "not believe Ohio is in the Obama camp,” noting that he got an email from a top Romney aide who said the campaign disagrees with the network’s call. He then asked Rove if he believed Ohio has been settled.
“No, I don’t,” Rove said.
“I think this is premature,” he added. “We’ve got a quarter of the vote. Now remember, here is the thing about Ohio. A third of the vote or more is cast early and is won overwhelmingly by the Democrats. It’s counted first and then you count the election day and the question is, by the time you finish counting the election day does it overcome that early advantage that Democrats have built up in early voting, particularly in Cuyahoga County.”
Rove said the network needs to be “careful about calling things when we have like 991 votes separating the two candidates and a quarter of the vote yet to count. Even if they have made it on the basis of select precincts, I’d be very cautious about intruding in this process.
The Failure Of ORCA On Election Day
The Rove/Romney coalition created Project Orca, which was supposed to enable poll watchers to record voter names on their smart phones, by listening for names as voters checked in. This would give the campaign real-time turnout data, so they could redirect GOTV resources throughout the day where it was most needed. They recruited 37,000 swing state volunteers for this.
According to various sources, however, ORCA totally failed on Election Day: PIN numbers and passwords did not work, reset tools failed, customer support was ineffective and unavailable, Comcast shut down access for fear of a DDOS attack, and the system crashed and had trouble re-booting. “At one point during Election Day, the system had malfunctioned so badly that desperate volunteers wondered if the program had been hacked.”
Anonymous Warned Rove Prior To The Election
Two weeks prior to the November 6th election, the hactivist group Anonymous posted a video warning Karl Rove not to rig the election.
Tom Hartman's site gives more details.
http://www.occupyforaccountability.org/index.php?q=node/1075
Last month, we offered a million dollar reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone who rigged a federal election on November 6th. We urged computer experts to contact us with information about any election manipulation of the tabulation results.
We Received A Letter
On November 12th, we received a letter from “The Protectors,” apparently a group of white hat cyber sleuths, mentioning our reward and stating that two months ago, they began monitoring the “digital traffic of one Karl Rove, a disrespecter of the Rule of Law, knowing that he claimed to be Kingmaker while grifting vast wealth from barons who gladly handed him gold to anoint another King while looking the other way.”
“The Protectors” said that they had identified the digital structure of Rove’s operation and of ORCA, a Republican get out the vote software application. After finding open “doors” in the systems, they created a “password protected firewall” called “The Great Oz,” and installed it on servers that Rove planned to use on election night to re-route and change election results “from three states.”
The letter indicated that “ORCA Killer” was launched at 10am EST and “The Great Oz” at 8pm EST on November 6th. “The Protectors” watched as ORCA crashed and failed throughout Election Day. They watched as Rove’s computer techs tried 105 times to penetrate “The Great Oz” using different means and passwords.
Finally, they issued the following warning to Mr. Rove: don’t do it again or they would turn over the evidence to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
We are not in a position to vouch for the contents of this letter anymore than we can vouch for the video by Anonymous warning Karl Rove not to rig the election. However, we can analyze that content under the prism of Mr. Rove’s history and facts over the past few weeks. We do so in the hope that this will lead to an investigation of Mr. Rove’s entire operation ala General David Petraeus. In that spirit, we provided this information to the FBI prior to publication, and followed up after publication. For years, we have campaigned for a complete investigation of Mr. Rove. And we have provided extensive legal memos and evidence to the FBI to support such an investigation.
We urge others who have information to about election tampering or other criminal violations by Mr. Rove, including violations of campaign finance laws, to provide that evidence to the FBI. We also urge people who gave money to Mr. Rove and his organizations to contact the FBI if they were misled, promised things that did not happen, or were otherwise defrauded.
Karl Rove has a history of rigging elections going back several decades, including in 2004 when he orchestrated a man-in-the-middle attack to change the votes from Ohio.
In 2012, Mr. Rove’s SuperPacs raised and spent hundreds of millions on behalf of GOP candidates. He courted billionaires and promised them that his candidates would win.
Days before the 2012 election, Mr. Rove predicted a strong Romney win. His spinners lionized him in articles that portrayed him as invincible.
On election night, Mr. Rove worked the three states that held the key to the election – Ohio, Florida and Virginia. But when he tried to access the Ohio election website, he kept getting error messages.
Finally, immediately after Ohio was called for President Obama around 11:30 EST, Mr. Rove appeared on FOX News to dispute the call, saying the election there is far from settled and the call was “premature.”
Fox News’s Chris Wallace said the Romney campaign does "not believe Ohio is in the Obama camp,” noting that he got an email from a top Romney aide who said the campaign disagrees with the network’s call. He then asked Rove if he believed Ohio has been settled.
“No, I don’t,” Rove said.
“I think this is premature,” he added. “We’ve got a quarter of the vote. Now remember, here is the thing about Ohio. A third of the vote or more is cast early and is won overwhelmingly by the Democrats. It’s counted first and then you count the election day and the question is, by the time you finish counting the election day does it overcome that early advantage that Democrats have built up in early voting, particularly in Cuyahoga County.”
Rove said the network needs to be “careful about calling things when we have like 991 votes separating the two candidates and a quarter of the vote yet to count. Even if they have made it on the basis of select precincts, I’d be very cautious about intruding in this process.
The Failure Of ORCA On Election Day
The Rove/Romney coalition created Project Orca, which was supposed to enable poll watchers to record voter names on their smart phones, by listening for names as voters checked in. This would give the campaign real-time turnout data, so they could redirect GOTV resources throughout the day where it was most needed. They recruited 37,000 swing state volunteers for this.
According to various sources, however, ORCA totally failed on Election Day: PIN numbers and passwords did not work, reset tools failed, customer support was ineffective and unavailable, Comcast shut down access for fear of a DDOS attack, and the system crashed and had trouble re-booting. “At one point during Election Day, the system had malfunctioned so badly that desperate volunteers wondered if the program had been hacked.”
Anonymous Warned Rove Prior To The Election
Two weeks prior to the November 6th election, the hactivist group Anonymous posted a video warning Karl Rove not to rig the election.
Id quite happily batter that fat fecker to death with his own shoes
Seems like conspiracy stuff to me. Daily Kos has threatened to ban posters for bringing this topic up. Produce the evidence - that's a start.
When AP, BBC, or some other news source runs the story I will definitely take a look.
When AP, BBC, or some other news source runs the story I will definitely take a look.
I received a letter
But it wasn't nearly as interesting as that one.
But it wasn't nearly as interesting as that one.
this was on the radio today.
Hustad tried to implement a new software eve of the election in Ohio and was stopped by a court order.
Its not as far fetched as it sounds.
Romney had not prepared a concession speech.
Rove specifically refused to accept Ohio's results.
It is not possible for the internal pollings of the Romney team not to know they were going to lose and badly when even we here...almost everyone one of us predicted an EV for Obama between 303 to 332.
Hustad tried to implement a new software eve of the election in Ohio and was stopped by a court order.
Its not as far fetched as it sounds.
Romney had not prepared a concession speech.
Rove specifically refused to accept Ohio's results.
It is not possible for the internal pollings of the Romney team not to know they were going to lose and badly when even we here...almost everyone one of us predicted an EV for Obama between 303 to 332.
If Anonymous had evidence of this then surely they'd expose it. What's the point of them withholding it?
Attention.
I guess as a preventative measure?
I have no doubts they have the ability to do that, and all the surrounding events do kind of add up. Back in 04 there was a lot of talk about something underhanded going on in Ohio its not beyond the realms of possibility.
They would be forced to provide evidence if it exists if a politician decides to pursue this supposed Anonymous.
Why? Because it would be voting fraud by a SuperPAC tied to a political party, which I would certainly believe is highly illegal. Congress would investigate as would FBI, NSA, etc. It would be a massive blow to the political system and the nation, and as such could certainly be kept under wraps unless a whistle blower emerges.
I would love to see how Fox spins such an investigation and congressional inquiry.
Why? Because it would be voting fraud by a SuperPAC tied to a political party, which I would certainly believe is highly illegal. Congress would investigate as would FBI, NSA, etc. It would be a massive blow to the political system and the nation, and as such could certainly be kept under wraps unless a whistle blower emerges.
I would love to see how Fox spins such an investigation and congressional inquiry.
- Status