He’s a talented boy, 20m is an unknown at this stage. The boy was bought for his potential. Give the boy time and stop judging him now. It’s perfectly normal for him to be told what aspects he needs to work on, we’re not buying the finished version. It’s perfectly normal to go on loans, we just need to ensure it’s loans that suit our players
Amad Diallo | Sunderland Loan Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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It is an issue as far as it makes it a lot harder for the scouts. Which increases the chances that they err in their judgment of a player and probably suggests that paying a large fee is at best risky and at worst ill advised.
How many youngsters have we also signed from foreign youth academies that have not gone anywhere with us despite high reputations in youth football? It requires so many things to go right. They've not all had Amad's reputation but it still demonstrates how tricky these things are.
But yes I would agree the handling of him hasn't been ideal and hasn't given us the best chance so far but there's time.
The Ranger stint was what it was, but its still very early into his stay in Sunderland.
Honestly, I like this signing. Not because I am confident in Diallo panning out, but I rather make 5 signings like Diallo for 20m a piece and have 2 of them pan out and become homegrown stars than paying 100m for one Antony (and I am a bit Antony fan).
Given Diallo’s stature he is going to have to play in a bit more of a freer role as a No 10 or a winger who can wander a lot. The Championship is not a bad league. Sunderland is not a team that constantly is on the ball. They won a couple of games in a row after Diallo joined them. I don’t think it’s odd at all that Diallo isn’t handed the reigns of the team under those conditions.
Ultimately I think we must do a lot better job developing players at Carrington, which I think partly will come with ETH due to having a clearer game-plan in place with more purposeful roles. And I think Diallo and many others before him have been hurt by the lack of that. But like let’s say Diallo does find his place with Sunderland and has a decent season in the Championships — hey, I am excited about what he might become under ETH if he gets eased in as a Fernandez back-up next season. Like the clock is ticking, sure, it doesn’t look great for his future in Manchester if he now stack a couple of failed seasons with injuries etc on top of each other the coming years. But there are still some prospects.
It is not because we had seen lot of players out there with lot of senior football still fail so being senior or not wouldn't be matter as long as there is plan what to do with the player and how to develop the player. Joao Felix had senior football at Benfica but Simeone didn't have the right plan of how to develop him properly, and because of that he hasn't been performing as what people think of his talent. We can spend 50m on a kid but if there is plan what to do with the kid to turn him into 100m player then it reduces the risk.
We clearly never had any plan of how to develop and what to do with Amad after we signed him.
Dalot is not a great example, if you count the no. of mis-pass during Everton game. Back to Amad. I would rather pay 50m for someone more ready, as in the case of Sancho or Antony, who are not automatic selection but at least good to challenge for a spot, Amad is not.
How much care and attention do you think he is getting at Sunderland, and the kid will self-develope himself into a 1st teamer? Alternatively I would rather loan him back to Alantis for 1.5 season instead of 0.5, and let him see regular football.
Based on some of Mowbrays comments he does seem keen to get the best out of him. He’s just being tough on him.
Hard work beats talent etc - kid just needs to figure it out.
Hard work beats talent etc - kid just needs to figure it out.
But we did pay the extra money for someone more ready like sancho and anthony. Paying for those players doesnt mean we should not have a budget for young talent. I think we even saved a ton of money by waiting an extra season and paying 74m rather 120m for someone like sancho. Dortmund where demanding 100m++ for sancho....the money we paid for amad plus what we actually paid for sancho is still much less than dortmund where demanding that season for sancho. I think we grossly overpaid for anthony but ETH asked for him by name so I guess thats okay.
Regarding how much care he is getting at Sunderland....from the looks of it alot. The manager is gving him minutes in every single game. Once he fits into their style, he will begin to finish games. Amad is a young kid who needs time to fullfill his potential....not insane pressure to be a first teamer now or next season. I have way more belief that he will make it long term at manutd than someone like elanga
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I haven't followed Diallo recently but hard work wasn't an issue back when he was in Italy. The guy oozed professionalism there and he was played at different age groups because of his maturity and his talent.
In my opinion we really messed up with Diallo's development. The guy was supposed to go to Parma on loan (aka a club who is renowned for developing top talent) only to be brought with us despite the manager clearly didn't want him here. His small stature and his experience at a slower tempo and a more tactical league as oppose to the EPL hasn't helped
How many matches did he play for their first team before we signed him?
Diallo left at age 18 and Serie A clubs tend to prefer giving first team opportunities to players at a later stage of their career to avoid kids believing their own hype (ex Gazza, Greenwood etc). However he played with the u 21s when he was 18 and with the u18s when he was younger then that. At Parma he would have been given ample opportunity as well
If he only ever played underage football I don’t see how you can have any idea about his professionalism and suitability for Serie A vs PL football?
We’ve had a load of teenagers play for our U23s over the last few years. Nobody would say any of them “ooze professionalism” on that basis alone.
Players can lose their way before they kicked a ball at first team level. Take Ravel Morrison (0 games with United) and Djordic (1 game) who were shipped off not because of lack of talent but because of their lack of professionalism.
Diallo is the complete opposite player of that. He came to Italy with barely any possessions of his own and months before his country ended up in a civil war. At 12 he immediately impressed first at Boco Barco and then Lucchese (where he tasted first team football) only for him to join one of the best youth academies in Italy aka Atalanta. At Atalanta he was a phenomenon scoring goals and making assists left right and centre despite being played with players of an older age group. Any one linked with the player vouched about his professionalism and pristine talent. For example ex Fiorentina GK Giovanni Galli said "I was told about them (ie Amad and his brother) by a friend of mine whom I travelled with for humanitarian reasons. He advised me to take them to Lucchese as they were quite talented. After their first training there I told them that they were too good for Lucchese." Argentinian international and former Atalanta captain Papu Gomez said " He reminds me of Messi. The only way to stop him is to kick him" while Atalanta's head of youths Maurizio Costanzi said "He's got ample quality technically wise. He arrived in 2015 and he had to adapt to the physical demands and stress of playing here. However the kid is very mature and has immense talent"
Taking professionalism aside I agree with you about the rest (which I tackled in my first post). The EPL is faster and more physical then the Serie A something a young 5ft8 player might and would probably struggle in. That's a concern even Costanzi hinted at as well.
So he’s very talented. We can see that. What we don’t know is whether or not he has the discipline and professionalism to make the most of his talent. You mention Ravel Morrison. He was getting almost identical rave reviews as he came up through the youth system in England. Excelling at that level tells us very little about whether they have the right approach to also excel in senior football.
To be clear, I’m not saying Diallo definitely lacks a professional attitude. We just don’t know enough to be certain if he does or not.
Ravel Morrison was stopped by the police at age 16. The car he was in had drugs and guns in it which lead to 3 people in that car ending up arrested. Diallo on the other hand was lauded at Atalanta for being a hardworking player who was talented and mature enough to play with players at a higher age group. So unless things deteriorated in the England, then professionalism isn't really an issue.
I think the issue here is more about his physique (he's 5ft8) and his ability to adapt to the EPL. The Serie A is less physical, more built around technique and played at a lower tempo. It also seem that he was brought in behind the manager's back. That didn't help
So from that Wikipedia excerpt there we can see he's talented in under 21s football,
Alas, a senior footballer that does not make.
Alas, a senior footballer that does not make.
Great to see Sunderland going from 0-1 to 2-1 after Diallo was brought on.
Seemed he came in at half time and the team stepped up a gear. Don't know if he was a catalyst for that or not
Given he had 27 touches, a pass accuracy of 89%, 1/2 successful dribbles and 0/1 shots on target, I'm going to say he wasn't.
So you have no idea
27 touches in 45 minutes of football as an attacking player paints its own picture.
Does he have work ethic or attitude issues? It seems to me that way because talent wise you can’t say he hasn’t got it or is this about amazing at youth level but can’t replicate at professional level like with many young players.
That's not bad. 50-55 is around the avg touches of an attacking player in a full game
In phelan shorts real world he still wasn't the catalyst in Sunderland getting the win, as that accolade would go to Dennis Cirkin who got a goal and an assist, whilst playing CB.
Edit: here's his highlights reel of him cutting the Wigan defence to ribbons...
what about his first touch? It's insane, there's a footballer there. He's moving well, running and making space. ETH will work him in, Sunderland will toughen him up. Could you see McT and Fred controlling the ball like that? What about Rashford? Diallo and the ball sticks.
The thing with Amad is that he has to be head and shoulders above every other Championship attacker in order to have a chance at Manchester United. He is 20, he has to affect games way more than now. Would United look at any other 20 year old Championship reserve player as someone who can potentially make a step up? No way, they have to prove they could potentially belong to higher level first. If he doesn't end this season as one of the best and most exciting Championship players, he's hardly ever going to break through there.
Would Scholes have been heads & shoulders above every other Championship attacker at 20? Fergie gave the kids chances because he saw what they did on the training pitch.
How has that ever been the case for a 20 year old? A players development has never been a linear process where by a certain age you should be a certain level. If we go by your theory, Tottenham should have let Kane go after his 2 goals in half a season for a championship promotion chasing team..
Give him time to develop, the lads clearly got talent and potential, we'd be stupid to let him go because he's not fit in at a certain club. The manager and their style also plays a huge role in how someone performs.
He is really good at intercepting passes and reading the game. He does seem to overthink right now though, holding onto the ball for too long, a bad touch here and there (which is rare for him) and maybe shooting because of instructions when he doesn't feel it's the right choice.
There are legends of the club who were nowhere near bossing the championship at 20.
I can only think of Rooney, Ronaldo and Giggs who may have looked really good in the Championship, but they were exceptional players, with other very good players and professionals around them at Old Trafford.
I do remember Kane playing for some team on loan, and I thought he was a waste of space, there seemed to be nothing exceptional about him at all, so by that token, I would reserve judgement on Amad until he returns to United. He will be a better all round footballer, but let's see if he can make that big jump to Premier League level.
Leicester.
He playednfor Leicester in 'that' semi final play off game against Watford in 2013.
He was awful for Leicester. He went on loan for a club in League one and was equally as bad
We know from the experience of James Wilson and a few others at United that the first big contract can kill the motivation of young players. They achieve high social status, become millionaires and have all the trappings of that life. I think it was Warren Joyce who said that Wilson and a few other stopped working after they won their first big contract. United changed its contract policy with youth players because of it.
Im not saying this applies to Diallo either just agreeing that professionalism and hunger at youth level can disappear for various reasons.
He should be sold for whatever we can get in the summer. He's nowhere near good enough for where we want to go.
I hope whoever scouted this guy is no longer at the club
I went back and saw a reply of the 2nd half and Diallo definitely strengthened his shares in Sunderland and that is at least a step in the right direction.
And ultimately, I think getting these kids to take steps is what developing these kids is all about.
For every super talent that does make it, there is a quite high number of kids that doesn’t. Just go back and check those ‘top 50 wonder kids’ rankings of past years. Most are like ‘yeah I remember that name, but whatever happened to him?’ The reason for that is that their development completely stalls at one point or another or they even start to regress.
If you take a kid like Diallo, if he is a little better at 21 than 20, then better at 22 than he was at 21, then at 23 than 22 — I.e. at least some improvement yearly — he is going to be a very good football player at 25 y/o, no doubt. Good enough to star for a contender in the PL? That is of course another question. But there is a chance.
This is also why it’s so important to manage the expectations on these kids and to ensure that they recognize what it will take. Because when these kids think that they will need to prove their worth at like 19, they will lose confidence and their belief in themselves and often that also brings all kinds of other issues/bad habits.
Step by step.
And ultimately, I think getting these kids to take steps is what developing these kids is all about.
For every super talent that does make it, there is a quite high number of kids that doesn’t. Just go back and check those ‘top 50 wonder kids’ rankings of past years. Most are like ‘yeah I remember that name, but whatever happened to him?’ The reason for that is that their development completely stalls at one point or another or they even start to regress.
If you take a kid like Diallo, if he is a little better at 21 than 20, then better at 22 than he was at 21, then at 23 than 22 — I.e. at least some improvement yearly — he is going to be a very good football player at 25 y/o, no doubt. Good enough to star for a contender in the PL? That is of course another question. But there is a chance.
This is also why it’s so important to manage the expectations on these kids and to ensure that they recognize what it will take. Because when these kids think that they will need to prove their worth at like 19, they will lose confidence and their belief in themselves and often that also brings all kinds of other issues/bad habits.
Step by step.
Sunderland fans seem to be of the opinion that he made a difference coming off the bench and played well. I've read comments from some Sunderland fans have even been very impressed by his work rate and tracking runners in the defensive transition, too.
Some good moments in there and a poor touch or two and a bad choice as well. Should be enough to start seeing some starts for Sunderland but also a good example of why thats the level he's trying to succeed at for now.