If he has to go on loan again, send him to Brighton as part of Caicedo deal. It would make sense for both the teams I suppose
Amad Diallo | Sunderland Loan Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Olise got 19 goal contributions in 3263 minutes. A goal or assist every 171 minutes.
Amad is currently on 14 goal contributions in 2228 minutes. A goal or assist every 157 minutes.
Amad, like Olise, will probably win young player of the year. Amad, like Olise, is definitely the biggest talent in the Championship the season he was there. And I reckon, Amad, like Olise, will be more than fine at PL level next season.
It’s not the early 2000s anymore. A club like Brighton don’t need to loan big clubs young talents to hone their talents and give back when they can just as easily buy their own talents with the PL money and scouting teams they have in place.
Who’s that?
Mitro. 43 goals and 7 assists last season. But I mean, Amad would almost certainly have a few more goals and assists playing for the number 1 side in the league like Fulham were last year.
Still, 12 goals for a midtable Fulham side is pretty good going and puts him like 7th on the top scorer list
Ah. Ok. Age also matters in that comparison. With Mitrovic we’re looking at numbers that probably reflect peak productivity. The hope with Amad is that his numbers are only the beginning of an upward curve.
And he’s actually one of the very few players who has translated his performances in the Championship to performances in the Premier League. Obviously nowhere near as productive though.
He is skipping challenges and holding of defenders for fun at this level. He is more than ready to play for us.
He's ready. Back-up/competition for Antony next season. They'd be nicely interchangeable in Ten Hag's system.
Some of the Blackcats comments from yesterday's match:
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/amad.1604674/
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/amad.1604674/
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I am hoping BHA will be involved in some form of European football next season. And Caicedo already wanted to leave for Arsenal mid season and the chances of him leaving increases at the end of the season.
Also Amad would suit the way BHA plays.
If you consider both the points we buying Caicedo and Amad going on loan as a sweetener, it does not look bad of what I posted before?
But that's surely down to his whole team finding it a lot harder as well as him individually. He's gone from playing for a dominant team to a middling team
I mean put Mitrovic at City or Arsenal and he'd bag way more than twelve.
You'd hope the same goes for Amad. If he's here next season yes he'll face tougher opposition but equally he'll be playing for a better team relative to league opposition.
I think this "playing for midtable team vs dominant one" is a very valid question. Antony had 12 G+A in whole last season for Ajax, and it doesn't get more dominant than Ajax (BTW just realised he only played 19 games last season in terms of minutes?).
Amad is on 14G+A already, playing for something like a midtable Championship side. Imo that is much more impressive, but that might be also because he plays very attacking role compared to Antony being closer to a midfielder.
One thing that I find weird is why he only has 2 assists. Is this because like Antony always goes for a shot, or because his teammates can't finish? Strange because Amad passing looks really good.
Amad is on 14G+A already, playing for something like a midtable Championship side. Imo that is much more impressive, but that might be also because he plays very attacking role compared to Antony being closer to a midfielder.
One thing that I find weird is why he only has 2 assists. Is this because like Antony always goes for a shot, or because his teammates can't finish? Strange because Amad passing looks really good.
Their superb model revolves around one of the best scouting systems in Europe, developing the players and selling them at a massive profit.
There’s nothing they would gain from loaning Amad. They’ve got the next breakthrough prospects already lined up.
I get what you’re saying, but it just doesn’t work like that. Bit too career mode/FM wishful thinking.
Couple bits:
1. Caciedo’s going to go for 60m+ — with that money and their excellent recruitment they’ll find his replacement and have enough spare for an Amad equivalent who is their own player. What good does 1 season of grooming a talent that isn’t their own do for a side who are firmly trying to get European football, or their future profit on selling on a talent?
2. You do mention the fact that Brighton are competing for Europe, which is correct. In such a case, the club (us) might refuse to deal with them as they’re a direct top 4/6 rival next season — we did the same last summer. Was it over Dean Henderson to Newcastle? Something like that.
According to FBref, comparatively in the Championship, he has an xA of 0.15 per 90 which puts him in the 63rd percentile. Not the best but not the worst.
However, his shot-creating actions are up at 89th percentile.
Seems decent-ish from a creative perspective but his biggest strengths seem to be his ability to retain possession, dribbling and carrying the ball, and his ability to score.
Interesting. I don't watch him apart from highlights but his passing looks like a strength rather than a weekness. Judging by your description, I think there's definitely a place for him next season as Antony / maybe even Bruno backup. We definitely could use someone who can dribble and carry the ball forward.
I reckon 30' every other match plus starting in cup games early in the season is worth a shot. Whether he does enough defensive job remains to be seen and I imagine for that reason alone Antony will remain first choice, but he is still very young and already more promising in that regard than Sancho so I wouldn't worry about minutes for Amad. Especially that like I wrote in previous comment, Antony seems to miss quite a number of games.
60 per cent he goes for a shot and 20 per cent bad finishing. 20 per cent he runs into a blind alley. And 100 per cent reason to never use your weak foot.
ANALYSIS
Sunderland could yet change Manchester United's Amad Diallo plans*
Mowbray thinks he needs another season on loan -- best with a Prem club.
Sunderland could yet change Manchester United's Amad Diallo plans*
Mowbray thinks he needs another season on loan -- best with a Prem club.
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Right but next season we would most likely sign a top class forward, that would definitely further limit the chance for our 3rd choice right winger.
FW: new striker, Martial, (Rashford)
LW: Rashford, Garnacho, (Sancho), Elanga
RW: Antony, Sancho, Diallo, Pellistri, (Elanga)
Assume new striker, Rashford, Antony would that the starting line up, that would probably leaves Garnacho, Martial. Sancho, Diallo, Elanga, Pellistri fighting for 3 spot on the bench. And even if we sell Elanga and Pellistri, Diallo would be normally behind Garnacho, Martial, Sancho in the bench role, when everyone is fit. Of course he would be on the bench if someone is injured/suspend (most likely Martial), but that's his only hope, to wait for someone injured to get into our bench.
Bench:
- backup keeper
- backup CB
- backup fullback
- backup CB or fullback
- backup DM/CM
- backup AM
- backup FW (Martial)
- backup FW (Sancho)
- backup FW (Garnacho)
I think he would rather playing first team football week in week out with Sunderland for the sake of his development, rather than to wait for someone injured in order to sit on our bench.
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Elanga has all but confirmed to be going on loan this summer. Pellistri will probably go too. Our wide options will be:
Rashford || Antony
Garnacho || Amad
— — Sancho — —
We won’t have two CBs and a fullback on the bench every game. We don’t even have a “backup AM”, either — which could easily be Amad, btw.
I agree, it’s not an ideal start and I think early doors his game play may be limited, but I also think ten Hag will do what he’s been doing with Garnacho and get him and Amad on in the last 30 in matches quite frequently
Rashford || Antony
Garnacho || Amad
— — Sancho — —
We won’t have two CBs and a fullback on the bench every game. We don’t even have a “backup AM”, either — which could easily be Amad, btw.
I agree, it’s not an ideal start and I think early doors his game play may be limited, but I also think ten Hag will do what he’s been doing with Garnacho and get him and Amad on in the last 30 in matches quite frequently
I don`t know much about stats, but doesn`t xA go down when there is a lack of quality strikers in the team? Feels like it should be.
I have seen 10 ish Sunderland games this season and his ability to look up and find the feet of teammates in good position to score just seems really really good. Only 2 assists just seems wrong. I`m pretty sure he has a fair few second assists, for what thats worth.
I agree with what you're saying and sometimes technical players can get a bounce in their effectiveness when they play with other more technical players and they're not the heavily marked man but he's only underperforming expected assists by less than two goals which would imply he's just not going to be a volume assister and he's in the bottom 32% of expected non penalty goals and expected assists in the Championship and other second tier quality leagues.
That height is definitely old for Rashford, from when he was still growing. He's at least 185cm these days, if not slightly taller.
Haha..I agree with most of what you said except for the bit I bolded. The only thing I'm arguing is that it literally could have been better for example, it would have been nice to see him provide more assists as this is what the requirement is going to be for him at United to supplant Antony as some people seem to think he will do easily. My only argument is that people are overestimating the ability to translate Championship form to Premiership form. I pointed out players like Olise and you could even add Benrahma as players that were absolutely dominant in the championship but have struggled in the case of Benrahma or took a good while to establish himself in the case of Olise in far worse teams than United. Harvey Barnes is a good example of the difficulties. Once again, I am not arguing that Amad hasn't had a good season, just that the talk of him being able to replace Antony immediately is premature.
Also, there are people in this thread (not you) that are equating quantity of defensive actions with quality and are seriously under-appreciating Antony's ability and intelligence in defensive phases.
Anyone saying that Amad doesn't provide enough assists has not been watching the chances spurned by his teammates when he's put it on a plate for them.
He has been integral in the build up of many Sunderland goals this season.
He has been integral in the build up of many Sunderland goals this season.
This could be an interesting idea. Chelsea seemed to do something similar with Levi Colwill in the Cucurella deal.
Would people also consider him in an exchange for Caicedo if it knocked off let’s say £40m and allowed us more room to make moves for other areas of the team
As mentioned above, they pretty much did this with Chelsea and Levi Colwill. Don’t think it’s their preferred approach of course, but they are going to need more bodies next year if they are in Europe potentially. Getting a free loan for Amad to provide competition and cover for Solly March seems quite smart, and allows them to spend the 70m they receive for Caicedo on other areas of the team.
Once again and to re-emphasise, I've never said that Amad is not going to make it. I think he's great and will hopefully be really good for us over time. I even think he should be playing with us next season rather than another loan.
Are you looking at his striker profile by any chance? His expected assists for a winger are bottom 37th percentile. Also, he's not being measured against top five leagues but the players in the leagues below that - championship, eriedivisie, MSL, portuguese league.
Fair enough regarding Colwill. They are not pressed to spend big to fill any position as they more often than not have young players lined up for the first team. And they naturally have more incentive to develop their own youth.
If we decide to send Amad on loan I guess Brighton could be an option, although I’d be a bit sceptical about his minutes there. And that’s the most important thing next season, wherever that is.
Falling in love with players that are on loan - especially when they’re young and it’s clear their parent club loaned them to aid their development - is such a bad religion. Guys talking about “buy him”
No chance I'd allow Amad to leave permanently. I wouldn't want him to leave at all really.
No, I’m not. I’m looking specifically in the Championship this season - as my initial post said.
https://fbref.com/en/players/9dc96f10/scout/11567/Amad-Diallo-Scouting-Report
He should've had more assists with some luck. He doesn't go for a shot like Antony, quite the opposite actually. He opts more for linking up play than going for a killer ball which is usually not an option anyway. This suits Sunderland because it's a team of wingers and playmakers and spent a good chunk of the season without a striker. It's something he could definitely improve though, finding a balance between retaining the ball and creating more chances.
This!
Look at anthony from 2 sides...his attacking and his defending. If you look closely, Anthony is praised for his defensive aspects. Work rate, ball retention etc which is good. I never said he was bad at those. All i said is Amad matches him in those aspects. On the flip side when you look at his attacking...there is a lot to be desired. He rarely beats his fullback when one on one....he rarely uses his weaker foot...he doesnt pass beyond the average stuff and overall he has very few assists for united. Amad is better than Anthony in most if not all phases of the attacking play. To me, when Amad is given the chance, it will be Anthony looking for a way back.
Regarding Sancho, it is what I said. Garnacho came through and he displaced sancho as the backup to rashford. He does everything needed from our LW in the attacking phase better than sancho. Sancho maybe beats him in work rate but even that is debateable. Its a no brainer that when Garnacho is fit, we begin looking for where to put sancho. No wonder, ETH has got him playing in the 10 or RW as backup to Anthony. Basically all the questions regarding sancho got amplified when Garnacho came through. Its a no brainer that there are reports of us possibly selling him in the summer
Me neither, was just a thought that I hadn’t seen mentioned on here. Love the look of Amad this season and would be interested to see how he would look on our right hand side. Might push Antony up a level due to the competition as well.
However, if it was between keeping Amad or having the funds to get Diogo Costa I wouldn’t be 100% against.
Amad strengths..
1. Best touch and control in the league (he almost caresses the ball).
2. Weight of pass.
3. Ball retention is so good ...rated at 92%
4. Has always scored goals at all levels except Rangers. Even the few games he played for us he scored an unusual amount of goals(his first loan and being a shy kid...coach wasn't good enough imo.
5. Football intelligence.
6. He will only improve under Ten Hag ala Martial, Bruno, Wan Bissaka and Even Casemiro. United players dominated this world cup but before ETH was hired Bruno had started getting benched for Portugal. Mourinho even commented at one time during the Euros that Bruni was on the pitch but not playing.
1. Best touch and control in the league (he almost caresses the ball).
2. Weight of pass.
3. Ball retention is so good ...rated at 92%
4. Has always scored goals at all levels except Rangers. Even the few games he played for us he scored an unusual amount of goals(his first loan and being a shy kid...coach wasn't good enough imo.
5. Football intelligence.
6. He will only improve under Ten Hag ala Martial, Bruno, Wan Bissaka and Even Casemiro. United players dominated this world cup but before ETH was hired Bruno had started getting benched for Portugal. Mourinho even commented at one time during the Euros that Bruni was on the pitch but not playing.
The thing is, he's only 21. There's no need to rush his development. If he comes here and doesn't perform in the odd 20 minutes he gets, he'll only get sporadic appearances throughout the season. It's far better for him to get 30+ 90 minute games under his belt.
Look at Solanke - he was average last time he was in the Premier League at around 21/22, but he did two full years in the Championship and he's improved a lot.
Tuanzabe was the starting defender for a team that got promoted. He would've been starting week in week out with Villa in the premier League had we loaned him out and not decided to keep as the 4th choice option. My point is, when players are young, they are far, far, far (emphasis on the far) better off playing regular minutes even at a lower level than the odd 20 minutes every 2 weeks at United.
Amad had improved with regular 90 minutes in the Championship Vs being average in bit part appearances at Rangers. Another 40 games of 90 minutes for a promotion chaser next season would let him try new things, perfect his game more. Vs coming to United and being under immediate pressure to produce in the 20 odd minutes he'll get every now and then.
I'm not sure where you've got Sunderland's best player ever from but I'm sure most of them are in jest. Sunderland are not some National League team.