Is the loan confirmed? I still hope he stays and takes James minutes. But if we don't manage to sell Lingard, it might be better for him to get game time at least. I'm sure a lower prem team could do with him.
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Finished at the top level, might as well retire now. Another flop. Joke of a club.
No we only paid 21m for him. The rest are add ons that he would have to reach his potential for us to pay 40m.
Doesn't fit the narrative though
Well, maybe Fati is a better player and bigger talent than Amad.
The there is a finances issue.
I am not sure about the detail of the bonus. However, in most case, fulfilling the bonus clause is a good thing. If Atalanta is stupid enough to agree to impossible clause for the bonus, which I doubt, then good for us. However you look at it, we don't have a solid plan for him, or we would have let Parma loan him the past season, or send him straight on loan to a Championship team in January when he finally got his work permit. Wasting second half of last season to only come to conclusion that he's already outgrown our U23. In the meanwhile, James was getting minutes in game where we have nothing to play for toward the end of last season. One can argue, if trusted more, and showcased it, Diallo would have earned a loan move to a PL side for this season.
Getting first team experience is good, but doesn't mean any kind of experience is good, especially with the kind of mentality you just describe. A supposed great player in the making with the expectation from transfer fee and hype like this should be one of the best. Not his fault we paid that fee, but like it or not he's already judged differently. He can't just be content to be there to learn, and fail; as it's counter productive for the mentality he's supposed to learn: staying at the top of his game. Expect him to learn to earn the game time through competition with others, not just finding comfortable level for him just to play without purpose. That's no development. There is a fine line between getting enough game time at competitive level and having too many meaningless minutes without pushing yourself. Even our most recent successful loans aren't great for us when they return (Tuanzebe, Henderson) , while most of our other loans didn't work out well. So hard to be optimistic.
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Always something new to complain about
Which is exactly my point.
Many on here have said he is better than James, is deserving of a first team place.
Yet the clubs after him on loan are not exactly of a great calibre in terms of stature.
I chose Villa as an example because they have just lost an attacking outlet, I got told however that they don't loan in young players from bigger clubs to develop them...hence i gave the Tuanzebe example, they obviously do.
Amad is no where near ready for the first team, hence I agree with you about letting him go on loan, preferably to somewhere he'll get game time,
My point was that he isn't good enough to get game time at the 'middle tier' clubs just yet.
Look at Chong who you’ve loaned out to Birmingham. MOTM on his debut and looks comfortable in this league already. A Championship loan is not as bad as most of you are suggesting.
You don't have a point.
He is better than James, and James is not the one keeping him from playing time. It is Sancho, Greenwood and Mata the ones ahead of him.
The teams who are after him is irrelevant to his talent. Not to mention we don't know which teams are after him anyway.
Amad is ready for first team football, just not for us right now.
He is good enough for game time at middle tier clubs, but those middle tier clubs are not going to help develop a player for us when they can buy other players on a permanent basis or already have options of their own.
my point is entirely better than yours.He's better than James, but we will keep James and send Amad on loan.... Both play on the right or through the middle, so both will be challenging for backup to Sancho et Al.....
Right you are...
You then go on to quantify that by saying he's not ready for first team football for us... Which is MY POINT EXACTLY!!!
As for the last bit...again...Tuanzebe says Hi.
Don’t mind them. One of the many weird things about modern football fans is this weird certainty they have about the “level” of footballers. Usually based on close to feck all real evidence.
I saw a snip of a video where it was that keep ball thing they do. Him, Sancho, Martial and Hannibal in a team. Must have been a nightmare to play against them.
Personally I probably would prefer he stayed but as many have said if he goes to a lower level prem team he’s good enough to start week in week out and would probably get more minutes than the likes of a James is going to get. Might be one to keep an eye on for the Fantasy league team.
He's better than James, but we will keep James and send Amad on loan.... Both play on the right or through the middle, so both will be challenging for backup to Sancho et Al.....
Right you are...
You then go on to quantify that by saying he's not ready for first team football for us... Which is MY POINT EXACTLY!!!
As for the last bit...again...Tuanzebe says Hi.
No, you don't have a point.
He is a better talent than James, and yes we will keep James and send Amad on loan as they are not competing for the same position. No, James is not back up to Sancho, it is Greenwood and James won't play much on the right once all our players are available. Once again, this has little to do with James. He is not the reason for Amad to go on loan, it is Sancho and Greenwood who will play the majority of time.
And no, I am not saying that he is not ready for first team football, only that he has other players ahead of him so won't get much time if he stayed here, so better to go on loan. You are implying that he is not good enough for us as a player, and that James is his competition for RW, which is obviously not true.
And as explained already, the Tuanzebe and this are different situation, so no, you don't have a point.
Again, my point exactly.
Not really sure why you aren't grasping it really...it's not actually that difficult a point.
He's not good enough right now for our first team, so get him game time.
Yes James is in front of him, he has played both in the right and through the middle (both where Amad has played).
The reason for Amad to go on loan is to get game time, because he won't get it here, because Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford (when fit) and James will be ahead of him.
I have never implied 'he is not good enough for us as a player', I'd like to know where I have insinuated that, maybe you haven't read carefully enough?
He's not good enough right now, hence the reason he's going on loan.
You are merely agreeing with my point entirely, yet feel incapable of realising it due to some strange prideful reason.
You surely know English clubs are adverse to playing youngsters. Bellingham and Sancho left to get game time at Dortmund. They'd have never started regularly at United or any other English club at the ages they were granted senior debuts
He is only bought as a right wing option after we failed to sign Sancho a year ago. Since Sancho is here now, there’s simply no place for him near starting line up, he will need to fight with James, Mata or even Martial/Lingard etc for a place on bench. He is currently our 4th or 5th choice right wing. I think it’s best to loan him out for sake of his development.
RWF option:
1. Sancho
2. Greenwood
3. James
4. Mata/Diallo/Lingard
RWF option:
1. Sancho
2. Greenwood
3. James
4. Mata/Diallo/Lingard
If he can stay fit will be the issue, he’ll be targeted for some awful treatment as he’s a slight build and a skilful player.
I agree but he’s nimble and he needs the consecutive games. No point him riding the bench at another PL club either. I guess they are sending him there to be a key player one way or another. It’ll be good for him. It’s weird though. I would have said Pellistri is ready for the rough and tumble of the championship far more than amad and amad would have done very well in Spain at a lower/mid table club. I guess to thrive in the PL he’s going to have to overcome the physical hurdles and learn to impose himself on bigger stronger opponents at some stage so he may as well start now. He’ll be fine after he gets a goal or two and the fans take to him. I can see him destroying defenders at that level.
Let the united staff work on him to build muscles, fitness, strength etc.
He will benefit from that more than going on loan.
I want him to play when we play in cup matches this season.
He will benefit from that more than going on loan.
I want him to play when we play in cup matches this season.
My stance is that if he goes on loan, 99% chance is that his United career will finish. We rarely are able to develop players through that route and he has even more difficult task due to us having overflow of young talent in attacking areas.
Depends on how big a talent he is. If he is indeed one of the best attacking talents coming out of the Italian league over the last few years then he should be able to make a big impression in the championship. Top talents don't struggle out on loan.
Fecking unbelievable. We are letting a kid that cost as much as Ronaldo sit on the bench for the past 18 months to rot and now we are loaning him out to the Grimsbys of the world? He should have been at the Euros for England or at least replacing Bruno by now.
Fecking Ole... so much for promoting kids!
Yah. I can't think of one single person at United who has gone on loan and come back. Not one!
To be fair, there aren't many that have gone on loan, come back and have had long and fruitful careers at the club.Yah. I can't think of one single person at United who has gone on loan and come back. Not one!
I can think of only Beckham, O'Shea and Jonny Evans, of which only Becks became a regular starter.
That is not to say the same fate will befall Amad, but statistics are not on his side.
Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans were all regulars, Cleverley and Welbeck started games immediately after loan deal. It's up to players to keep their position.
Yah. I can't think of one single person at United who has gone on loan and come back. Not one!
As I said its rare, and importantly we are already filled with players in his position. That wasn't the case with players you mentioned - we had the opportunity to ease them out into our team after a successful loan. With him he may come back with a successful loan in championship and face the same issue as now - that he is a prospect but will have to fight hard to earn minutes which the club and him already decided not to do.
No, you don't have a point.
I think a loan would be good because of playing time, not because I think he is not good enough yet. I also disagree about James being ahead of him, and him being a better player. James is an average player, and his decision to go on loan will not be influenced by James as he is not competing with him for a poition nor is he ahead of him.
This is not about James vs Amad, James is an insignificant factor in this discussion, yet you keep bringing him up and make it as if James is eating Amad's time on the pitch, or that he is a better player than him. He is not, and he is not the reason he is considering a loan.
I agree a loan would be good, but my reasons for it are different than yours.
We had Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov as CFs when Welbeck was loaned out, when he came back Welbeck and Rooney started as CM.
We had Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson as our CMs, Cleverley started immediately after coming from loan.
Again it all depends on players, how they play when they are loaned out and how they impress the coaches in training. We loan out so many players and the chances of them making first team is very low just by the fact that the percentage of academy players making it to first team is low.
Aah, Tom Cleverley.. The "regular" who made more appearances combined for his loan clubs, than for us (< 100 for us btw).. Welbeck you could still make a case for, but Cleverley only got game time because we went he had Anderson, and a newly arrived Kagawa as his competition to play alongside Carrick. Even so, he managed less than 20 league starts. That's not my definition of a regular.
That little jibe notwithstanding (I am sorry, I just had to say it), I'm assuming we want Amad to have a better ManUtd career than Welbeck and Cleverley?
What I said is that there aren't too many players that have gone on to have a long and fruitful Utd career after loans. Even if you count Welbeck in with the ones I pointed out - that's FOUR players out of a zillion that have gone on loans at similar ages to Amad.
We can hope Amad beats 'em but you have to admit those are not good odds.
Again please go back to my original post - we have lots of young players in his position. When Welbeck came, he could conceive of gradually building up his career as the next guy to follow the likes of Berbatov, Rooney etc. (lol) but can Amad make that stake when we have Sancho and Greenwood? Indeed Welbeck started playing regularly for us from 2011-12 season when Berbatov, Hernandez were being phased out / or becoming rotation players.
I am not going by just statistics of loanees here (which in any case doesn't favour Amad) but also looking at the specific circumstances in the team. You can never say never in football and that's why the 1% chance but my bet is that he won't make it here in the first team even if he goes on to have a successful career at other top clubs eventually.
Edit: Forgot about Cleverly. I mean you can list all these CMs but we all remember how much we were hankering for a CM to fill a gaping hole and how much we hoped Cleverly was this guy. Its very different situation to our current attacking set up where even possibility of Grealish being signed raises the question on whether he would be able to play.
It's a shame Cleverley had to compete with Kagawa who was still playing for Bundesliga.
Cleverley started as first choice CM alongside Anderson in 2011-12 season, he was injured in the Bolton game and missed few months. After that he didn't replicate the same form. It might be just a purple patch but he got his chance as first choice and like I said it's up to players to keep their places. In Cleverley's case, he did well but unfortunately he got injured. When he came back it was close to end of the season, after missing so many months he didn't get much chances.
In 2012-13 he started first 3 games and it was up to him to keep his position.
So he got his chances after the loan spell and he didn't make full use of it, it's upto players how they make use of the chances they get.
Ofcourse the players who never get chances will be high as we will loan almost all players, from talented players to players who will end up in non league. So if we go by raw numbers, the percentage of players who gets chances will always be small.
But every player is different, when they get chance how they play, how they train all matters. Like Cleverley, Welbeck, Evans he will get chance and its up to him how he will compete for his position.
We also had Hernandez who scored 20 goals in 2010-11. Hernandez wasn't phased out, he was signed in 2010-11 and he was starting regularly alongside Rooney in the second half of the season, including CL finals. Hernandez replaced Berbatov in the second half of the season. Once Welbeck came back, he got the nod for the first few games and then as usual he was injured.
On the Amad point, we can have more than 11 good players in the squad. It's a squad game, if Amad improves and can push others for his position then we will be in very squad and can rotate without much drop in quality. There will be a time when one of the player won't be happy with the playing time, we sell for good money and move on.
If he plays well and challenge the first team players then you never know how things might change. Greenwood might play as CF, Sancho and Rashford competing for LW position with Amad as RW position. In the worst case, we will have 3 wingers for 2 positions if Greenwood ends up as CF.
IMO with or without loan, Amad won't be a first choice winger this season, his best bet is to go out on loan and play well, which makes it easier for him to be part of first team with lot of games at good level. Right now he has barely played since his debut, it won't help him at all just being part of the squad and not playing games.
Diallo can play in more than one position. He can play on the left and in an AM role as well. We have a very fluid, very interchangeable group of attacking players and in an ideal world Sancho, Rashford, Bruno and Greenwood would be the headliners with Diallo, Elanga, Mejbri, and the like the talented understudies. We have enough first-team talent in Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood, Sancho, Pogba & Bruno that we'd still be capable of fielding a strong attacking line up in the event of an injury crisis.
I'd really like to see the talented kids filling in the rest of the game time, instead of the fringe players like Lingard, Mata, and James. If we can get rid of James and Lingard, which we really should be looking to do, Diallo would be looking at getting plenty of game time. I suspect it won't happen this season though as we seem unable, or unwilling, to move players on
I'd really like to see the talented kids filling in the rest of the game time, instead of the fringe players like Lingard, Mata, and James. If we can get rid of James and Lingard, which we really should be looking to do, Diallo would be looking at getting plenty of game time. I suspect it won't happen this season though as we seem unable, or unwilling, to move players on
Yeah I wouldn't mind that at least up until Christmas and after rashfords return, I can imagine they'll be quite a bit of rotation between Martial, Cavani and Greenwood as a nine, Martial, Sancho and James on the left and Sancho Greenwood and Amad on the right. It really depends on Martials form, whether he is seen predominantly as a striker and if Sancho in return is deployed on the left up until Rashfords return. If that is the case I see James been used as a backup to Sancho and Amad as backup to Greenwood on the right.
Sorry if that's a bit convoluted, such is our options, also think that posters maybe slightly knee jerking to James starting the season opener.
Tldr could potentially get good minutes up until Rashfords return due to rotation, re-evaluate at Christmas and see his progression.
Why isn't he getting the playing time here? What is the reason?
Think about it.
James isn't insignificant considering they both play in the same positions. Amad has played wide right and through the middle, James has played....let me guess....that's it, wide right and through the middle.
The club just yesterday published an interview with him and how happy he is to be back and all that. Strange timing if he is to be loaned out.
Having said that, I think the most important thing for him is to get a lot of games. With Pogba taking one of the 3 positions behind the striker, that gives us Pogba, Sancho, Bruno, James, Rashford with Martial, Lingard and Mata in the mix for added experience. There is very little room to give ample play time to a developing youngster. A loan now and come back next season when Mata, Lingard and maybe one more are gone makes a lot of sense.
Also I think this is not the same Man Utd as a couple of seasons ago where we knew we were very far from top trophies and could afford giving lots of play to kids like Greenwood and even Chong or Tuanzebe on occasion. We are now laser focused on trophies, including the League Cup.
Having said that, I think the most important thing for him is to get a lot of games. With Pogba taking one of the 3 positions behind the striker, that gives us Pogba, Sancho, Bruno, James, Rashford with Martial, Lingard and Mata in the mix for added experience. There is very little room to give ample play time to a developing youngster. A loan now and come back next season when Mata, Lingard and maybe one more are gone makes a lot of sense.
Also I think this is not the same Man Utd as a couple of seasons ago where we knew we were very far from top trophies and could afford giving lots of play to kids like Greenwood and even Chong or Tuanzebe on occasion. We are now laser focused on trophies, including the League Cup.
Championship is arguably the 6th best league is Europe (and certainly more relevant for his development at United than other leagues, such as the Portuguese, Serie B etc).
If he can get 35-40 games, in a side likely pushing for promotion, it'll be better than getting half as many appearances in a team parking the bus in the Premier League. Take Januzaj as an example of us getting it wrong by loaning him to Sunderland, where he was in a team that didn't have an attack, or to Dortmund, where he didn't play.
I think some people just have a snobbish and unrealistic view of things if they have a problem with this loan.
It'd be interesting if he smashes it, whether that would propel him straight into the first team, or if it would make him in demand enough to earn a loan next season to a side from a top league.
If he can get 35-40 games, in a side likely pushing for promotion, it'll be better than getting half as many appearances in a team parking the bus in the Premier League. Take Januzaj as an example of us getting it wrong by loaning him to Sunderland, where he was in a team that didn't have an attack, or to Dortmund, where he didn't play.
I think some people just have a snobbish and unrealistic view of things if they have a problem with this loan.
It'd be interesting if he smashes it, whether that would propel him straight into the first team, or if it would make him in demand enough to earn a loan next season to a side from a top league.
He is not getting playing time because of Sancho, Greenwood and even Mata, not James.
James is insignificant, Amad has played mostly from the right, and James has mostly played on the left and some on the right, before Amad came to the club. Neither is a real choice centrally as we have plenty of options there, and playing some odd minutes won't suddenly change that. Again, Amad going on loan will not be based on James who barely gets time himself. The big change is us buying Sancho, not James.
The one that James is really competing with is Elanga, and it would have been interesting to see if he had played ahead of James gainst Leeds if he was not injured as he played a lot of minutes in preseason, and had better performances than James.
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