All Time Reserves Draft | Quarters

I'm not sure if this idea won't generate too much debate whether the peak that is given as example is the actual peak, especially for players that have pretty long career. Case in point is Lucio discussion on last page. Then again take Ferrara for example - his peak is at Napoli but was excellent at Juve as well. Same for Crespo, some might argue his peak was at Parma, others at Lazio, etc. There are also players with higher peaks than 3 years, or that have an injury in one of those years, etc...

So it's kinda debatable whether we should implement it at this stage.
 
In reality, I think a manager would be inclined to write " Look at my wonderful player whose peak was between X and X: so many trophies and goals"

The opposing manager would be inclined to say "Oh! His peak was between X and X: he used to play as a defender and not as a GK"
 
I am not against the discussions regarding the positioning but it would be great not to go in circles for a long time.
 
Downcast said:
I am not against the discussions regarding the positioning but it would be great not to go in circles for a long time.
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Apart from that since it's career peak some players have had longer careers when they were on top and probably that would also be taken for consideration by some of the voters, while we restrict it to X numbers of years and generally will be like the 3 years peak draft.

But again it's up to @Aldo just sharing some thoughts.
 
Gio said:
I agree with this in principle. It's always good to hang your hat on what series of performances you're player is likely to deliver. That said in practice for the vast majority of players it's obvious what the peak version of that player is - aside from a couple of notable exceptions like Scholes and Schuster. And quite a lot of the pool will have peaks arguably a fair bit longer than three years.

How's that for sitting on the fence?
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Aye, for the most part its unnecessary IMO. If any Scholes/Schuster cases crop up then they can be dealt with in the match threads easily enough.
 
It was done in a previous draft and worked well, though it didn't make much of a difference.
I will lay out the write up rules before the tournament.
 
Players change during they careers, not only Scholes but majority of them and if we dont use boarders managers can easily glorify their players to heaven and back......lets say Messi played in 30s and there is little or no footage, manager of course will use any footage and evidence that they can to sell their player and in that case we can have the best of false nine Messi and winger Messi, ok he is maybe the wrong example but even he changed a lot in that period of few years.

As for some having a longer peak then 3 years, in that case we can put that 3 years peak is a minimum but you can take higher peak if you want and if that player didnt change in that period as already mentioned trio has - Schuster, Scholes, Messi.
 
I'm against of adding new rules in the middle of the draft. We would specify what version of the player we are using anyway if this is a Scholes/Schuster situation
 
harms said:
I'm against of adding new rules in the middle of the draft. We would specify what version of the player we are using anyway if this is a Scholes/Schuster situation
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It's not a new rule harms. Ever since drafts have taken place a three year peak has been considered during the tournament. All this does is for you to write it.
 
harms said:
Yeah, I'm against of adding new rules in the middle of the draft. We would specify what version of the player we are using anyway if this is a Scholes/Schuster situation
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we are not adding anything, all-time drafts are always played on 3 years peak and i just want that everyone writes their peak in player profiles or in match thread. Both managers and voters will have their job a lot easier and its a much fair game for everyone involved.
 
Aldo said:
It's not a new rule harms. Ever since drafts have taken place a three year peak has been considered during the tournament. All this does is for you to write it.
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I just think that it's a little bit pointless and just increases the volume of the write-up. But it's your draft, if you want it that way, we will do it of course
 
Agreed that player often changed position when they get older (Matthaus, Rijkaard, Scholes, etc.).
 
The vast majority of cases of players moving to different positions is because their legs go, they become lesser players and need to adapt their game accordingly. Nobody in their right mind would put Matthaus at sweeper, Giggs or Barnes in central midfield, when they've got access to the primo version of said player.
 
Gio said:
A few early thoughts:

- Downcast and RedTiger - potent attacking set-ups where it will be interesting to see how it meshes together
- Tuppet - has done well to pick up players a little later than he should have
- Skizzo/Pat - Hanappi is good at turn 6 as he's probably final worthy in this draft
- Physio, Mazhar/Marty and Enigma - some nice partnerships emerging
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Thanks.

Regading the other managers, very preliminary thoughts:

1. Stobzilla & KM - like my team, strong focus on offensive players so far
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - Legendary players in defence
Aldo Staine + Chesterlestreet - Curious to know more about some of your players but it seems very interesting.
8. Isotope - Dörner may be underrated but he was a brilliant sweeper. Curious to see his midfield.
10. harms & Annah + green_smiley - I don't know all the players for the moment but very nice SA picks
12. BBRBB - Strong modern defence
15. Edgar Allan Pillow- Nice to bring to light some old-school EPL players
 
harms said:
I just think that it's a little bit pointless and just increases the volume of the write-up. But it's your draft, if you want it that way, we will do it of course
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Gio said:
The vast majority of cases of players moving to different positions is because their legs go, they become lesser players and need to adapt their game accordingly. Nobody in their right mind would put Matthaus at sweeper, Giggs or Barnes in central midfield, when they've got access to the primo version of said player.
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Agreed. Its something that can easily be teased out in match threads if an individual case warrants it. I don't see much use in lengthening write ups with it when it won't add anything in the majority of cases.
 
Gio said:
The vast majority of cases of players moving to different positions is because their legs go, they become lesser players and need to adapt their game accordingly. Nobody in their right mind would put Matthaus at sweeper, Giggs or Barnes in central midfield, when they've got access to the primo version of said player.
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Giggs is a good example tho, where would you put him at 3 years peak? Closer to 1994 or 1999?
 
Downcast said:
Curious to know more about some of your players but it seems very interesting.
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Segarra?
He's one amazing find and all credit goes to @The Stain for suggesting him. Not only does he fit in our plans beautifully, his reputation and personality is one of a true great. Such a respected man all around the globe. We are really glad to have to massive personalities like himself and Picchi in charge of the defense. :)

More on him later, of course.
 
Gio said:
The vast majority of cases of players moving to different positions is because their legs go, they become lesser players and need to adapt their game accordingly. Nobody in their right mind would put Matthaus at sweeper, Giggs or Barnes in central midfield, when they've got access to the primo version of said player.
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Yes, you're right in general. There are some exceptions, though. Scholes as deep playmaker is as good as his younger years. So did Rijkaard, moving from CB to DM. Then Desailly was as good as CB later on, then DM in early years. Carrick was 'box to box/playmaker' with West Ham, then turned into DM with United.
 
@Chesterlestreet must be tired with all that 'juiced up' research!

drunk_at_laptop.jpg
 
I don't understand how it'll help you to know which three year period the manager claims is the player's peak if you don't know anything about the player to begin with.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I don't understand how it'll help you to know which three year period the manager claims is the player's peak if you don't know anything about the player to begin with.
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i guess its the same, researching a certain period of player career and his whole career(and after that try to find out when he was at his best).....
 
We tried the 3 year peak in one of my drafts earlier, it was my own idea, and it didn't really work out well. Halfway through I believe we kind of agreed to ignore it as it was too much work for the managers. Using it as a loose reference in the OP would be a good idea, but without enforcing any rules beyond that.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
i guess its the same, researching a certain period of player career and his whole career(and after that try to find out when he was at his best).....
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I don't get your meaning. What you describe is basic knowledge. Any manager needs to have a basic knowledge of his player. If he doesn't have that, he shouldn't be drafting the player. But what does this have to do with making the posting of a three-year peak in the write-up mandatory?
 
1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves 6. Larbi Ben M'barek 7. Branko Stankovic
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri 6. Rep 7. Hulshoff
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Wright 6. Orsi 7. Hassler
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Preben Elkjær Larsen 6. Amancio Amaro 7. Joan Segarra
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato 6. Zito 7. J. Armfield 8. B. Lennox
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince 6. Just Fontaine 7. H.J. Dörner 8. Cambiasso
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna 6. Hanappi 7. Khurtsilava 8. Gemmell
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva 6. Streltsov 7. Clodoaldo 8. Byrne
11. green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti 6. Di Bartolomei 7. Jorginho 8. Magico Gonzalez
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra 6. Taylor 7. W. Samuel 8. Mats Hummels
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G. Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio 6. M. Tassotti 7. K. Augenthaler 8. H. Haller
15. Edgar Allan Pillow- 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade 6. Danny Blind 7. J Ceulemans 8. Michel
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz

@Aldo @The Stain
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I don't get your meaning. What you describe is basic knowledge. Any manager needs to have a basic knowledge of his player. If he doesn't have that, he shouldn't be drafting the player. But what does this have to do with making the posting of a three-year peak in the write-up mandatory?
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I think it's to restrict the managers more than informative for the voters. If you define a players peak then you can't use his contribution from another stage of his career, or at least this is how I understand it, or which "version" of the player you are using in the specific game.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I don't get your meaning. What you describe is basic knowledge. Any manager needs to have a basic knowledge of his player. If he doesn't have that, he shouldn't be drafting the player. But what does this have to do with making the posting of a three-year peak in the write-up mandatory?
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@Enigma_87 got it + part about not knowing certain players, i didnt mean in my team of course, wouldnt pick a player that i know nothing about - i meant the players from other teams. Im certain im not the only one in the draft that doesnt know every player and when voting, i will try to research that player before i make the decision and vote.
For example, i never heard about Hector Rial until now and for me to asses the player and not only believe what his manager says it would be much easier if i knew the 3 year peak on which i can focus my research then trying to figure on my own when is his peak.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I think it's to restrict the managers more than informative for the voters. If you define a players peak then you can't use his contribution from another stage of his career, or at least this is how I understand it, or which "version" of the player you are using in the specific game.
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Well, if the "version" question is actually relevant (Scholes, Schuster), then it should obviously be addressed.

But some players simply don't have a three-year peak you can easily isolate - and other players were equally good in multiple positions. This isn't problematic in itself, though. What you demand of any manager is that he backs up his claims: If he fields Player X as a winger, everyone is free to question that decision, based on their own ideas about peak and ideal position/role. And then the manager has to stand up for himself. I don't see what the problem is, frankly, unless it be (again) cases like Scholes or Schuster - but those are so well known by now that in all likelihood you won't get away with being ambiguous; people will demand to know which version of the player you're fielding.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, if the "version" question is actually relevant (Scholes, Schuster), then it should obviously be addressed.

But some players simply don't have a three-year peak you can easily isolate - and other players were equally good in multiple positions. This isn't problematic in itself, though. What you demand of any manager is that he backs up his claims: If he fields Player X as a winger, everyone is free to question that decision, based on their own ideas about peak and ideal position/role. And then the manager has to stand up for himself. I don't see what the problem is, frankly, unless it be (again) cases like Scholes or Schuster - but those are so well known by now that in all likelihood you won't get away with being ambiguous; people will demand to know which version of the player you're fielding.
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I agree on all accounts. Just reiterated what @Šjor Bepo had in mind with the suggestion.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
For example, i never heard about Hector Rial until now and for me to asses the player and not only believe what his manager says it would be much easier if i knew the 3 year peak on which i can focus my research then trying to figure on my own when is his peak.
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Alright, if you feel this would facilitate your own research - sure. But "3 year peak" isn't a set category which is relevant for all players, nor is it something there will be any sort of consensus on for many players.

At the very least, you'd have to give the managers the chance to - simply - state that the player in question doesn't have an obvious three-year peak if this is the case.
 
@Šjor Bepo See, the thing - for me - is that the onus is always on the manager to back up his claims and provide relevant information to people who are unsure about the quality and suitability of his players.

Let's say you come up against Rial: You don't know much about him, and you clearly shouldn't simply take his manager's word for it when he claims this or that about the player - so you rightly expect evidence and documentation. If your opponent hasn't provided the latter (but simply claims that Rial was brilliant), you have an edge over him right there.

If he has provided information, however, posted links and descriptions of the player from reputable sources - well, then he has done his job, and it's up to you to read up on what he has provided. Demanding a three-year peak to be stated is - well - to me it's neither here nor there. It doesn't add anything crucial and in many cases it isn't relevant or practicable.
 
@Chesterlestreet cheers for extensive response.
It doesn't add anything crucial and in many cases it isn't relevant or practicable.
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agree but can be useful in those handful cases and its not really difficult to do that, its really 4 numbers next to every player :)
 
Aldo said:
Segarra?
He's one amazing find and all credit goes to @The Stain for suggesting him. Not only does he fit in our plans beautifully, his reputation and personality is one of a true great. Such a respected man all around the globe. We are really glad to have to massive personalities like himself and Picchi in charge of the defense. :)

More on him later, of course.
Click to expand...

Good
 
1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves 6. Larbi Ben M'barek 7. Branko Stankovic
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri 6. Rep 7. Hulshoff
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Wright 6. Orsi 7. Hassler
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Preben Elkjær Larsen 6. Amancio Amaro 7. Joan Segarra 8. Dunga
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato 6. Zito 7. J. Armfield 8. B. Lennox
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince 6. Just Fontaine 7. H.J. Dörner 8. Cambiasso
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna 6. Hanappi 7. Khurtsilava 8. Gemmell
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva 6. Streltsov 7. Clodoaldo 8. Byrne
11. green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti 6. Di Bartolomei 7. Jorginho 8. Magico Gonzalez
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra 6. Taylor 7. W. Samuel 8. Mats Hummels
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G. Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio 6. M. Tassotti 7. K. Augenthaler 8. H. Haller
15. Edgar Allan Pillow- 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade 6. Danny Blind 7. J Ceulemans 8. Michel
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz

@Tuppet
 
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