All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft

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antohan said:
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Heh, indeed.

But it has to be said sooner or later. Thing is that it's considerably harder to back up that NN played well - or not so well - in the league specifically than in, say, an international tournament of some description. This is especially true of the older group of players featured here.

Unless you actually saw NN - and remember his specific league performance as distinct from his overall performance - it's going to be a bit of a mare "proving" your points.

My take on this is exceedingly simple: The pool restriction as such - and the club restriction on top of that - is enough. You can easily let all matches NN played for club X count when assessing him - not just the league performances. The Premier League considered as a competition is far less interesting than the teams and the era implied by the term.
 
I was indeed drunk and stoned when I made the pick, and no mutiny, actually @ctp suggested it himself :lol:

And to be fair,
Chesterlestreet said:
Hargreaves was, as mentioned above, “underwhelming” for United – there's zero doubt about that. But he wasn't necessarily poor. In fact, when injury free, particularly in the 2008 run-in, he was bloody good.
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this is what matters for me, it's kind of like Robben for Chelsea - wasn't at his best and got disrupted by injuries, but when Hargreaves had a season free injury in 2008 he was one of the most important players in the team, and I remember myself gutted when he was injured and that was the blow who kind of started our midfield problems, with Hargreaves there we could've had a dominant midfield for longer years.
So yeah, Hargreaves wasn't good for long, but when he was good, which was a complete full season - he was fecking amazing. What's the difference with that and someone who played just a single or a couple of PL seasons? Klinsmann for example had one season(or 1.5 I can't remember) for Spurs and he was brilliant in it, so he's counted for a good pick. Hargreaves played one amazing season than got stuck with never ending injuries, but he was still very good when he played in 08.

Anyway I lost track, whose turn is it?
 
  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
I was indeed drunk and stoned when I made the pick, and no mutiny, actually @ctp suggested it himself :lol:

And to be fair,


this is what matters for me, it's kind of like Robben for Chelsea - wasn't at his best and got disrupted by injuries, but when Hargreaves had a season free injury in 2008 he was one of the most important players in the team, and I remember myself gutted when he was injured and that was the blow who kind of started our midfield problems, with Hargreaves there we could've had a dominant midfield for longer years.
So yeah, Hargreaves wasn't good for long, but when he was good, which was a complete full season - he was fecking amazing. What's the difference with that and someone who played just a single or a couple of PL seasons? Klinsmann for example had one season(or 1.5 I can't remember) for Spurs and he was brilliant in it, so he's counted for a good pick. Hargreaves played one amazing season than got stuck with never ending injuries, but he was still very good when he played in 08.

Anyway I lost track, whose turn is it?
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nah he really wasn't. In that season he only played in 23 of the 38 league games, 6 of which were cameos less than 30mins. Of the 17 games he played longer than 30mins he played a fair few on the right wing which was not his best position but because he never got a real run of games or made a position his own in the middle.

He did better towards the end of that season that might cloud some memories. He did have that freekick against Arsenal but that didn't win us the league as was said previous as there were another 4 games to play, and of course he did well in the CL final, though that is irrelevant to this draft.

Gutted about how it all went as was really excited when he signed. It was overall a disaster though.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Heh, indeed.

But it has to be said sooner or later. Thing is that it's considerably harder to back up that NN played well - or not so well - in the league specifically than in, say, an international tournament of some description. This is especially true of the older group of players featured here.

Unless you actually saw NN - and remember his specific league performance as distinct from his overall performance - it's going to be a bit of a mare "proving" your points.

My take on this is exceedingly simple: The pool restriction as such - and the club restriction on top of that - is enough. You can easily let all matches NN played for club X count when assessing him - not just the league performances. The Premier League considered as a competition is far less interesting than the teams and the era implied by the term.
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Although I agree in part, the rules stated premier league appearances and it would be an unfair swerve ball to change thinking half way through the drafting process. I'd already questioned the worth of picking a Robben earlier in this thread who played hardly any Premiership games to justify being picked in have round he was. Hargreaves is an interesting one because I remember he had some great champions league performances, including playing RM vs Lyon and putting in some brilliant crosses, however by the order of the original rules I shouldn't be taking that into account when judging his performance for this draft.
 
  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley 5. Radebe
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta
 
Stobzilla said:
I'm on my phone so can't update the list but I take Leeds' tank Lucas Radebe.

@bleezy
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Nice pick.

  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley 5. Radebe
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta
 
dannymc1309 said:
Although I agree in part, the rules stated premier league appearances and it would be an unfair swerve ball to change thinking half way through the drafting process. I'd already questioned the worth of picking a Robben earlier in this thread who played hardly any Premiership games to justify being picked in have round he was. Hargreaves is an interesting one because I remember he had some great champions league performances, including playing RM vs Lyon and putting in some brilliant crosses, however by the order of the original rules I shouldn't be taking that into account when judging his performance for this draft.
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Yeah, rules are rules.

It'll be interesting to see to what extent people will actually adhere to them, though.

How many have consciously made decisions thus far based on league performance alone? With most players it's not an issue, of course, because they stayed long enough at their club and was consistently good enough for the point to become moot - but there are already several cases which present much more of a problem, including the ones you mention.
 
I pick the other half of the Invincibles defence, Kolo Toure.

Kolo%20Toure

  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley 5. Radebe
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano 5. Kolo Toure
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta
@Šjor Bepo
 
Aldo said:
No shortage of quality CBs though. That Leeds team was going to be invaded sooner or later.
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Yeah that's why we left it. Wasn't quite my first choice anyway but he is a fine centre back and a good pick.
 
@Cutch maybe it is a clouded judgment and I remember it better than it was, but I still do remember him having a massive influence every match he played, and yeah I agree CL shouldn't count, but nevertheless I remember some great league performances both defensifely and offensively, his positioning was never inflicted by injuries and he played very well, and anyway I'm sure Bergkamp and Modric can make the best out of him arise again
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
@Cutch maybe it is a clouded judgment and I remember it better than it was, but I still do remember him having a massive influence every match he played,
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EVERY match he played is pushing it, I think. He was very good at times, though, especially towards the end of that season.

Cutch is right to point out that he frequently played on the right (at RB even) when he was on song that season, though. The latter isn't a crucial point, however, as he was capable of being moved around without losing much of his quality - and he did play in the middle for us that season too.

The main question remains whether what he did that season qualifies in terms of how people (voters) should assess him. If it qualifies, as such, you've got a very good player on your hands - better than many who will be picked down the line, no question about it.
 
every team needs their lunatic so we pick the prick Martin Keown, arsenal legend and member of best EPL defence in the late 90s....
d7da6367f2a3acc203602e7e4933232b_crop_north.jpg


the second pick....not sure why is he surprised, top class footballer
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GARY-MCALLISTER.jpg
 
  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley 5. Radebe
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano 5. Kolo Toure
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta 5. McAllister 6. Keown
@bleezy
 
Chesterlestreet said:
EVERY match he played is pushing it, I think. He was very good at times, though, especially towards the end of that season.

Cutch is right to point out that he frequently played on the right (at RB even) when he was on song that season, though. The latter isn't a crucial point, however, as he was capable of being moved around without losing much of his quality - and he did play in the middle for us that season too.

The main question remains whether what he did that season qualifies in terms of how people (voters) should assess him. If it qualifies, as such, you've got a very good player on your hands - better than many who will be picked down the line, no question about it.
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Yeah, I might play him at RM and maybe CM, both will work with him, that's part of the idea with the wingers pool very light in this draft. I think people should asses him based on the games he did play, while unfortunately discarding the CL performances. Based on those, maybe I'm remembering the fairytale part of it and for me he made a big influence every game he played, but maybe it's most and I have a selective memory. Either way, I think he was a quality player which showed, of course he's not one of the big names in the draft, but definitely not a shock pick like some suggested - but a very well all rounded midfielder who had one good season, which was affected by a bit of injuries which escalated to many injuries and a crushed career. Robben for me isn't that much different which is why I was reluctant to pick him early, he's a big name which will definitely earn you votes but he wasn't at his best at Chelsea and injuries were always a bitch. At this stage I'd gladly pick Robben and it would be a steal, but I was afraid of taking the gamble on him early. With Hargreaves, at this late stage with the pool of players really becoming slim, I get a top notch player who played not far from his best(but obviously not at his best), no need for over thinking it for me and it works.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
every team needs their lunatic so we pick the prick Martin Keown, arsenal legend and member of best EPL defence in the late 90s....
d7da6367f2a3acc203602e7e4933232b_crop_north.jpg


the second pick....not sure why is he surprised, top class footballer
in_love.png


GARY-MCALLISTER.jpg
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Zola and Carrick were clearly too loveable... Mind you, I've signed Keown in my CM93 and he has been my best defender. Strongly considering not renewing Brucey's contract and getting Adams instead. Those two were phenomenal together, up there with Rio-Vidic and Terry-Carvalho afaic. Third best pairing in the EPL's history, easily.
 
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  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley 5. Radebe
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano 5. Kolo Toure 6. Le Saux
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta 5. McAllister 6. Keown
@Stobzilla
 
Was never going to last. Good pick! Stobzilla is going to crush my hopes and dreams here.
 
118 Goals in 216 Appearances for Liverpool, before moving to Madrid, this young bloke was superb, and will enjoy the linkup from Bergkamp greatly.

Sorry lads,
Michael Owen
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@Gio
 
  1. Marty1968 - 1. Shearer 2. Terry 3. Yaya Toure 4. Bruce 5. Kanchelskis
  2. Skizzo - 1. Ronaldo 2. Campbell 3. Desailly 4. Gallas 5. Gilberto Silva
  3. Cal? - 1. Henry 2. Torres 3. Hazard 4. Schneiderlin 5. Bryan Robson
  4. MJJ/Crappy - 1. Keane 2. Overmars 3. Ginola 4. Ince 5. Stuart Pearce
  5. Cutch - 1. Giggs 2. Essien 3. McManaman 4. G Neville 5. Barry
  6. The Stain - 1. Scholes 2. Lampard 3. Drogba 4. Ljungberg 5. A. Young
  7. berbasloth4 - 1. Vieira 2. Stam 3. RVN 4. King 5. Duff
  8. Kazi - 1. Suarez 2. McGrath 3. Vidic 4. Klinsmann 5. Waddle
  9. Tuppet - 1. Ferdinand 2. Cole 3. Xabi Alonso 4. Petit 5. Mata
  10. coolredwine - 1. Cantona 2. Irwin 3. Adams 4. Hyypia 5. Dennis Wise
  11. diarm - 1. Bale 2. Beckham 3. Van Persie 4. Pallister 5. Le Tissier
  12. Gio - 1. Gerrard 2. Makelele 3. Robben 4. Kompany 5. Petrescu
  13. VivaJanuzaj - 1. Bergkamp 2. Modric 3. Evra 4. Ivanović 5. Hargreaves 6. Owen
  14. Stobzilla - 1. Rooney 2. Pires 3. Carvalho 4. Beardsley 5. Radebe 6. Gullit
  15. bleezy - 1. Fabregas 2. Agüero 3. Sanchez 4. Mascherano 5. Kolo Toure 6. Le Saux
  16. Šjor Bepo - 1. Zola 2. Carrick 3. David Silva 4. Zabaleta 5. McAllister 6. Keown
 
MJJ/Crappy with Ince/Keane. :drool: Really well played there, I was a bit surprised seeing Ince last all the way until the fourth round.
 
If MJJ/Crappy can get the right centre backs then they will have a very strong team. Keane and Ince means they can play a proper 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1. Plenty of brilliant strikers left to make that work.
 
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