So I've hurt my chances by being stupid rather than disqualifying myself?
All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: SF - MJJ/Crappy vs diarm
- Thread starter green_smiley
- Start date
So I've hurt my chances by being stupid rather than disqualifying myself?
I'd have to check back through the draft thread, but I'm pretty sure Danny ended up as someone's AM. May well be Diarm.
Shooting themselves in the foot here if so
He is my AM.
Lets put this into perspective, shall we?
Between 92-2000(18 matches) Le Tissier only scored four times against a united side player 4-4-2 with no DM.
Stop elevating him to something he is not. He is(was) a good player but isnt single handedly going to win you the game here.
1. Of course it fecking matters. If Keane is on the right I'll grant you Modric will be a lot more subdued than against Scholes, but Le Tissier is running riot. You can't have your cake and eat it.
2. It was pretty obvious where Le Tissier would start, he started there every game before this. Crucially, what you are saying is you planned and prepared for this game without paying any specific attention to how to deal with Le Tissier. Good luck with that.
3. It's not right to mentally swap players when you know full well they look better/more in their element as you put them on the teamsheet. Terry and Ferdinand would "look" better swapped around, and Cole-Terry has obvious benefits in terms of proven chemistry, but @diarm has clearly put some thought into it and loses some shine by playing the right arrangement: with Overmars out left Bergkamp would largely operate at inside right/centre, and you want Ferdinand on Bergkamp's side.
Diarm's plan basically boils down to long balls by his defense upfront i.e. percentage football. There is a reason no top side plays like this, it rarely works. You cant keep expecting to lump the ball to le tissier or out wide and expect the player to control it in time. He is playing a two man midfield, with one man sitting in front of the defense. To put it simply, he wont have no where near enough the possession to hurt us.
Not really, although it's not ideal by any means. Now people see the score as 14-13. If someone else votes for you, it looks like it's tied, so other people may not vote to break a tie, even though you have your vote, and Danny's, that don't count.
Doesnt really matter, modric is going to be more in the central of a park anyway in a real match, will have to as diarm isnt playing a 4-3-3 but a 4-4-1-1 with batty sitting in front of the defense. He wont favour one side.
That isn't a United side and that most certainly isn't a United defence.
The midfield is a united midfield though, and the argument being currently put forward is that we have no plan for le tissier as show le tissier rarely shown against a united side who played without a DM akin to us here.
Southgate was ferguson's choice to replace ferdinand when he was banned, mcgrath won player of the year in the league, ivanovic has been one of the best defensive fullbacks of this era while pearce was an england international. Its not significantly worse than a 90s united defense at all.
You are basically 14-11 now, which would call for a fence-sitter to vote for you, while at 14-13 they may well just stay on the fence.
Easy way around it is danny cancelling your fake vote by voting your rivals, that will restore accuracy in the scoreline.
That isn't a United side and that most certainly isn't a United defence.
Also, 47 of those goals were penalties. So his record is basically 52 goals in 270 matches i.e. not that impressive.
Nah, Modric has always favoured centre-to-left, and with Beckham tucking in on the right that would also be the more balanced positioning.
You expect them to leave a hole on the centre right area when beckham is attacking/providing width? Forgot le tissier, scholes is going to have all the time in the world if he does set up like that to initiate counter attacks.
That was in regards to other people's matches, meaning you and Danny could both vote in mine and gio's match for example. Managers usually only vote in their own games to see the score, and they cancel out so it isn't really a big deal. Here, however, neither mjj or crappy voted to see the score, so you're a vote behind in a way, and then your AM voted on top of that too.
But no, don't forfeit. Like a to said, just make sure the invalid votes are equal for both teams, then it becomes a non-issue.
Nope. The 102 goals in 270 games is Premier League. Your 47 penalties is all comps including pre-Premiership. He scored 24 penalties in the prem and his goalscoring record is impressive whichever way you look at it.
Gotcha. I'll change my vote to them myself and that should even it up right?
So its four goals in eighteen matches against a united 4-4-2 and 78 goals otherwise? Yeah, not that impressive.
Done. Horrible feeling doing that!!! 
Felt like Paul Dickov and his walking the ball into the net yesterday!
Felt like Paul Dickov and his walking the ball into the net yesterday!
Keane and Scholes did not make the United 442 all on their own. I'm sorry but they didn't.
And Southampton never had a striker with the movement of Van Persie who would be keeping the centre backs from coming out to meet Le Tiss.
United could send Pallister out to deal with him, safe in the knowledge that Bruce would be able to deal with Dowie or Maskell receiving balls over the top.
It's a United center midfield, the wingers aren't particularly complementary to that pairing though imo, as Beckham and Giggs were both industrious in ways I don't see overmars and Ginola being here.
In regards to Southgate, Valencia was fergusons choice to replace Ronaldo, but doesn't mean it was a good idea does it? Maybe his penalty miss is skewing my memory of him though
When on the ball, Batty moves into that area (pulled back, making a Modric-Tiss-Beckham-Batty diamond of sorts). Scholes will indeed have a certain amount of space to operate in, but this isn't late dictating Scholes but box-to-box Scholes and his runs lead him straight to a rather imperious John Terry. Ferdinand-Terry is the best CB pair in the draft after all.
Yep. Now it shows 15-14 to them, but it's really 14-13 to them. Invalid votes are cancelled out. Make sure to keep those invalid votes in mind in case there's any sneaky voting in any future matches
It's a United center midfield, the wingers aren't particularly complementary to that pairing though imo, as Beckham and Giggs were both industrious in ways I don't see overmars and Ginola being here.
In regards to Southgate, Valencia was fergusons choice to replace Ronaldo, but doesn't mean it was a good idea does it? Maybe his penalty miss is skewing my memory of him though
Out of those four goals, three were scored in 99. So even before giggs and beckham he didnt do anything against united side who played with conventional wingers. Given his lack of workrate as well, you are basically relying on modric and beckham to fight the midfield battle for you. Simply put, you wont see enough of the ball and our players will have more time to make better chances.
Valencia was very good for a bit but god knows what was going on with SAF in his latter years. Loads of weird transfers.
Has any side at the top level won with a trequarista, anchor man and a centre mid midfield?
Leaving bergkamp alone? :O
But thats a simple win for us going by the logic being applied to le tissier.
Yep. Now it shows 15-14 to them, but it's really 14-13 to them. Invalid votes are cancelled out. Make sure to keep those invalid votes in mind in case there's any sneaky voting in any future matches
Thanks for helping me clear that up. Apologies @MJJ / @crappycraperson for any confusion. It was a genuine mistake.
Based on his Wigan form, it wasn't a bad bit of business. The power of hindsight though :P
As for the last question, I guess it depends on how strict or fluid you see the side/players being.
No worries. Great match with really good discussion. Would be a shame to see it decided on confusion like that
But in that situation you don't have the ball, why on earth would David Batty stay glued to Bergkamp when you don't have the ball? Let alone when Rio Ferdinand of all people is moving up the defensive line and keeping an eye on him.
This draft is considering premier league peak only, not european or national performances.
Because it will be very easy to lump a ball at him and wait for him to create a goal scoring opportunity?
Beckham will tuck in ideally, but given that he is participating in attack, helping out jones against overmars and battling against keane/scholes I dont really expect him to be all that successful. Neither beckham or modric are the closing type as well either. Keane, Scholes will dominate the match, leading to more chances created for our side which will lead to a win. With beckham tucking in, he wont even have the option to counter attack that well since its only bale(countered by ivanovic) and le tissier on attack.
You've got to have a look at the team shape I posted up for when we're defending.
Also, on your point about Le Tissier playing United's 442. Le Tissier's undoubted peak was 93-96, I'll give you 97 at a push.
During that time, United rarely deployed Scholes when they faced Le Tissier, instead choosing Keane/Ince, Keane/Butt, Butt/Ince or Keane/Beckham.
In fact, during that spell, Scholes only featured in midfield against Le Tissier once, in October 96.
Le Tissier scored and ran the show as Southampton won 6-3
All of them are box to box players though, which goes against the point being made here that you need a DM to take care of le tissier. We also, dont need to employ ince here since you only have modric in midfield or scholes-lite if you will.
And thats one of the three games in which le tissier actually scored against united in a 9 year spell, not that impressive as you will agree to warrant the sort of treatment being suggested here.
Can you elaborate on how exactly are you going to score? Beckham is tucking in to help modric in the centre, le tissier wont help out the mid. Bale is occupied with ivanovic who will stick close to him. Is it just long balls to le tissier then?
But you know football doesn't really work that way. With Batty centre-right and Ferdinand pushing up with the defensive line they are both well placed to react appropriately. Balls don't just get lumped, first they need to be recovered, then the pass gets identified, then executed... The moment the ball was at risk of being lost Batty and Ferdinand are already on red alert.
Conversely, when the same happens with Le Tissier you have no Batty around and instead of Ferdinand you have Southgate.
In fairness, I was at The Dell that day and I'd argue I've seen better one-man shows from Le Tissier against us. Berkovic (some Israeli randomer at the time) and Egil Ostentadt played the game of their lives. BTW, Beckham was our best player that day as well.
In any case, this whole discussion is completely manic, particularly when Le Tissier was never about prolific goalscoring but unlocking defences providing moments of magic. He was a big game player who showed up for the big matches, be it by scoring or assisting. Goals stats are a completely idiotic way to go about assessing a player like Le Tissier.
Ince and Butt were far, far more defensively effective than Scholes was and you know that. I think it says a lot that in an obvious tactic to frustrate Le Tiss, repeated over multiple years, Fergie trusted Beckham in a midfield two ahead of Scholes.
I don't need him to be impressive over a 9 year spell, just his peak. I also don't need him to score against a top class United defence with greater defensive support. I just need him to score against your defence and Paul Scholes defensive support.
I've been really, really clear about that and you'll have to have a look back. I've showed the positions they will occupy in defense and then the areas they will move into when we recover the ball. I even drew a little box to show where our attacks will stem from.
Then there are options 1, 2 and 3, all of whom will be in space and that's ignoring the avenue of Cole or Jones left or right.
I don't honestly think you believe that Bale will be more occupied with Ivanovic than the Serb will be with Bale. It simply won't happen. Bale has the pace to move from that defensive, tucked in area into wide space in seconds. Ginola is not going to stop him and Ivanovic will be faced with both he and Cole tearing away at him.
You could have fooled me with the assertion that le tissier is going to run riot here without a dm marking him, something he rarely did against united's 4-4-2 with a one man midfield of modric. Jones and Cole are also helping out in attack without any worry for ginola or overmars while beckham assumes the role of superman by helping out in mid, attack and in defense at the same time.
Given that on his side, its only ferdinand who is recovering the ball, identifying the pass and then executing it I feel a lot more comfortable about our players recovering in time to guard le tissier without the need of a "batty" then having scholes doing the same on our end.
Sorry for any confusion with the voting I thought AMs had been cleared to vote in an earlier game, however it makes sense that was only in other games not our own Also I'm on an iPad so can't see who has voted for each team and therefore assumed the opposite AM had voted so I was voting to even it up rather than cause a disadvantage. We should be allowed to keep the AM vote anyway seeing as MJJ/Crappy have double teamed poor old Diarm and iv only been able to make one meaningful post with wifi issues on holiday
Also I'm on an iPad so can't see who has voted for each team and therefore assumed the opposite AM had voted so I was voting to even it up rather than cause a disadvantage. We should be allowed to keep the AM vote anyway seeing as MJJ/Crappy have double teamed poor old Diarm and iv only been able to make one meaningful post with wifi issues on holiday And what happens if that attack fails? With both bale and cole tearing away, and we pass the ball to ginola?
Sorry for any confusion with the voting I thought AMs had been cleared to vote in an earlier game, however it makes sense that was only in other games not our own
I wouldnt call it double teaming, neither of us posted at the same time or posted excessively.