All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft - R1: Skizzo/Pat vs Tuppet

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?


  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
42,037
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
vs
tuppet_epl-formation-tactics.png


................................. Team Skizzo / Pat ...................................................................................... Team Tuppet..........................................


fdjk-formation-tactics.png

Team Skizzo/Pat

Tactical Synopsis

We'll be lining up in 433/4231 formation, with a solid defensive unit, and a fluid front 4. Our defence is a strong, quick, physical unit, with enough defensive solidity to help keep the best player on the pitch free to do what he does best.

Defense:
We will play a Mourinho inspired low defense which suits Campbell and Desailly to perfection and undeniably also the full backs Wayne Bridge and Gallas who were members in Mourinho's defense at Chelsea.

The defense is lead by Desailly, who was elected in the team of the decade between 92-02 ahead of notable figures like Jaap Stam and Steve Bruce. After just having won the World Cup and being included in the team of the tournament he moved to Chelsea and he continued to dominate and was again part of the team of the tournament in the '00 Euros - showing great form.

His defensive partner is Sol Campbell, three times included in the Team of the Season, and a key part in The Invincibles era. Desailly was a very good short passer and was used to playing with a physical centre-back like Gallas. While Campbell partnered Keown who himself was very physical.

Midfield:
Juninho will be our little magician, breaking forward from midfield to link with our forwards. He was quick, even with the ball at his feet, and could turn on a dime. His dribbling caused headaches for defenders, and he had a good eye for a pass. With the movement and pace ahead of him, I expect Juninho to have a lot of joy finding space in between the lines. He is arguably the best Brazilian import in the Premier League, although that could also be shared with another of our midfielders.

Gilberto Silva was a key part of the famous Invincibles side, and a fantastic shield for the back 4. He was a tremendous ball winner, and kept things simple with moving the ball quickly on to a more adventurous midfielder. Never afraid to by physical, Gilberto will be our main ball winner in the middle of the park, and will be more than a match for most midfielders to compete with.

Lastly, to link our midfield and forwards, we have the Spaniard Arteta. Originally thought of as a defensive midfielder, or pivot, he thrived when allowed a more attacking role. Here he will be playing deep, but expected to use his incisive passing to spring our team forward. Up against a two man midfield, he will have enough time and space to pick his passes and help advance.

Attack:


SAF said:
I don't think there is a winger in this world that can do that and that's the measure of the quality of the lad and his scoring ability.

Johann Cryuff said:
Ronaldo is better than George Best and Denis Law, who were two brilliant and great players in the history of United.

Realistically, not much really needs to be said. United's best player since the likes of Best and Charlton, and the first since then to win the Ballon D'or. Hard working and dedicated, Ronaldo transformed his physique in his early years at United. Able to play on either wing, his pace, skill, and eye for goal has been on display throughout his time at United. While he struggled with his end product at first, he soon became a key part of one of United's most recent successful teams. Hitting double figures in goals in each of his last 3 seasons with United, he won the European Golden Shoe with a ridiculous 31 league goals. He can be more deadly from the wing than most strikers, and in somewhat of a free role, he will drift to find space and look to exploit it with his pace.

With Juninho playing as the attacking midfielder, they will look to interchange positions, with Juninho drifting wide on occasion, and Ronaldo drifting centrally to link with Saha, who he enjoyed some success with.

Kewell will be offering a direct, pacey threat on the right side, The full backs will need to be on their toes, and won't be able to venture too far forward. Kewell had a cracking left foot, and his pace caused problems for many a defender. Australia's finest footballing export was also comfortable playing centrally behind a striker. We have a fluid front 4 that can cause all sorts of problems with their movement and pace. All are capable of beating a man (or two or three!) on the dribble, and have the pace to get in behind and cause problems.

Up front we have Louis Saha who had a fantastic 03-04 season peak, scoring 20 goals in 33 EPL games. In his peak he combined world class pace and acceleration with great intelligent movement. As well as being able to link up great with whoever he played with, whether it was RVN, Ronaldo or Rooney.

His runs behind the defense and ability to beat the offside traps requires constant attention and back peddling from the opponents centre backs which opens up space for Ronaldo to cut inside. Or to do what he did best of all, challenge his full back in a 1 on 1.




Keys to victory/Why we will win:

1) Tuppet has the option to field Cole and Yorke, however neither of them are their United incarnations. While they could still strike up a fruitful partnership, playing two up front here will leave Tuppet exposed in the midfield and the front two will struggle for service. If he elects for one up front with Mata in behind, neither Cole or Yorke are suited for a lone striker role, especially against our center back pairing.
2) Cole and Yorke, if both played, will also struggle against the pace and physicality of Campbell and Desailly. Neither of our defenders will be standing around as Yorke and Cole link up, and they will struggle to find the space to exploit in our deep line.
3) The movement of our front 4 will wreak havoc on that defence. Saha's movement will cause openings, and all three of Ronaldo, Juninho, and Kewell can interchange positions to cause chaos.
4) Biggest mismatch on the field, by a comfortable margin, will be Ronaldo against Berg. Assuming Berg takes up his usual role at RB, as he did for Blackburn, he'll be absolutely roasted by Ronaldo time and time again. Ronaldo is comfortably the best player on the pitch as it is, and Berg just would not have the ability to stop him running riot here.
5) Also worth mentioning that while Southall was a great keeper, his time in the Premier League was far from his best. None of his Team of the Season appearances came after the Premier League formed, and Southall conceded on average 1.34 goals a game. Compare that to Joe Hart with .097 goals conceded per game, plus with 4 Golden Glove awards...we are comparing an International keeper in his prime form in the Premier League, against a World Class keeper who peaked long before the Premier League, and often struggled for form during.

Premier League Accolades between players:
Premier League Titles - 14
Premier League Team of the Year Appearances - 15
PFA Young Player of the Year - 2
PFA Players' Player of the Year - 2
FWA Footballer of the Year - 2
Barclays Player of the Year - 3
Premier League Golden Boot - 2
Ballon D'or - 1
World Player of the Year - 1
English Football Hall of Fame - 1
Team of the Decade - 1
Premier League Golden Glove - 4

Good luck Tuppet
 
Last edited:
Team Tuppet

Tactics:
My team is playing a fast paced 4-4-2, which is based on the Manchester united-99 blueprint. A solid defense, dominating and highly creative midfield, topped up by a fantastic attacking partnership. This team is all about balance, the midfield of Xabi Alonso and Emmanuel Petit provides just the right combination of technique and tenacity, ably assisted by 2 highly creative wingers in Nani and Anderton.

Petit along with Vierra was part of the french revolution in Arsenal which led to the league and fa cup double in 96. He was a fantastic shield for back 4, while still possessing great skill on ball. Xabi Alonso was one of the stand out midfielder of premier league, a brilliant play maker, who is defensively solid. A great left foot-right foot combo, with a deep playmaker and an all action midfielder, our own Keane-Scholes.

On wings I have tricky Nani, who was one of the best wingers in the league at his peak. From seasons 2009-12 his assist card reads - 15, 22, 18 while providing a respectable 20 goals. Anderton on the other hand has more than 125 assists in the league. At his prime, he wasn't far from Beckham, possessed a wand of right foot and ability to pick up pin point passes. Again similar to Giggs-Beckham combo.

My attack comprises of the classic partnership of Cole-Yorke. I'll be the first one to tell that this is not the Man Utd partnership. But its futile to argue that its not as potent, cause:

1 - Both are at there peak here, Cole IMO had his peak in newcastle where he scored astonishing 55 goals in 70 appearances, especially in 93/94 season where he score 34 goals and 17 assists. While Yorke was fantastic in his Aston Villa stint as well, after moving to center forward position, he scored 46 goals and 37 assists in 3 seasons. There is a reason why Man utd broke the bank and signed him for 12.6 million pounds at that time.

2 - This a classic creator-poacher combo, and the 2 players are perfect for each other, both are fast strong and unselfish players, who revel with each other.

3 - They worked !! I dont know how we can discard the fact that it was probably the greatest striker partnership that we saw in EPL.

In defense I have two standout players. The best center back in the league - Rio Ferdinand was imperious at his peak. Arguably the best defender SAF signed, and Ferdi had everything, pace, intelligence, strong in air and a great tackler. He is joined by Koscielny, now I am sure some of you guys dont rate him very highly, but I have no doubt in my mind that he is the best defender in EPL for last 3 seasons. The bed rock of an Arsenal defense which won back to back FA cups. This is what Marcel Desailly says about him -

I love Koscielny, I’ve seen him a lot. He has good leg speed, which reminds me of Lilian [Thuram]. The last time we spoke I told him to work hard and he’ll become one of the best defenders in the world. He’s at the standard of a Vidic or Pique. I mean that sincerely.

He is also very complete defender like Rio, fast, with great positioning and strong in air. Together they create a fast, technical pairing which allows my team to build attack from back and play with slightly higher back line.

The second standout player of my defense is the best fullback of the draft, Ashley Cole. There are not too many fullbacks I would trust to keep Ronaldo under control, but Ashley has done it before and he can certainly do it again. Fantastic in both defending and attacking Ashley would play a vital role, if I am to win this game. This leads us to probably my most unfancied defender, Henning Berg. Berg nonetheless was the first player to win premier league with 2 different clubs, and a fantastic defender able to play in both right back and center back roles, which is why Sir alex pursued his signing and paid 5 million pounds for him, at that time joint highest fee ever paid for a defender by an english club. His instructions are simple, he is to stay back and defend, and here is where his defensive nous are so important. As a complete full back he might not be one of the best in the league, but from purely defensive point of view, he is up there with the best RB in the draft. Also let not his later year (few) bad performances as Manchester United center back fool you, at his peak for Blackburn he was fantastic, a vital part of a title winning team.

Cole - Berg are extremely important for this game because of Ronaldo, if he starts on right then, Ashley would be tasked to stop him and he very well might be the only defender who can do it. If Ronaldo however starts at left, he faces berg, and thats where his defensive abilities come to fore, along with Ferdinand helping him on that side, I am certain that Ronnie won't be able to go berserk. There is also the fact that he usually played on right in EPL, and should not be judged at the same level in left wing.

Finally the defense is completed with one of the all time greats of English football Neville Southall, his best may be behind him, he was still fantastic for Everton in EPL, where he played for 5 seasons. Made great saves to win Everton FA cup in 1995, also set the record for most consecutive clean sheets, with 7 clean sheets. It was later broken by likes of VDS and Cech, who played behind mean defenses.

tl;dr
My fullbacks are equipped to handle the opponent's biggest threat in Ronaldo, Cole by being great complete fullback and having it done it before, while berg by being completely defensive and having great defensive capabilities. This combined with the fact that my midfield is better in holding the possession and more creative, while my defense is fast and highly technical, I am sure we'll see more of the ball, and create more chances. This along with a deadly striker partnership I am sure, we will outscore SkizzoPat's team.
 
Polls are disabled for normal users. Only Balu has it for Draft Threads, I believe.
I never stopped getting the add poll option in every thread I create, but not while creating, after posting the OP in the Thread Tools, guess they thought I'd be having to create draft polls or something. :lol:

bll6E2F.png
 
Interesting match-up, classic 4-4-2 v 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 hybrid.

For Tuppet it does show the value of getting defensively solid full-backs in Ashley Cole and a 'defend-first, overlap-second' type in Berg. I can see the rationale behind moving Ronaldo to get away from Cole and onto Berg, but Ronaldo attacking that inside-left channel will suit Berg/Ferdinand. Even with the obvious Kewell-cuts-back-onto-his-left-peg-and-crosses-it-deep route to goal. Still a mismatch, no doubt about it. Some nice partnerships though, as well as the obvious one, but equally in Petit/Alonso who should do a positionally sound job of holding the midfield. Great to see Anderton in a proper 4-4-2 and he will both provide for his front two from there as well as grafting back to help with the Cristiano threat.

For Skizzo/Pat, the first thing that catches the eye is the strength of that central defensive partnership. Very imposing. Obviously not quite peak Desailly, but still formidable enough. A peak Saha would of course be a physical handful and help to bring the attacking trio into play.

Tuppet has the option to field Cole and Yorke, however neither of them are their United incarnations
Moot point IMO. Cole obviously hit his goalscoring peak at Newcastle, rattling the onion bag 41 times in 46 games in 1993/94, while Yorke's late Villa form is no different to his early United form.
 
I expected Kewell left and Ronaldo right TBH. Peak United Ronaldo largely played on the right, didn't he? I know he swapped and played on the left as well, but I would have both players' peak forms on the opposite flank.
 
Amazing that what I find most attractive about @Tuppet is his dashing late form with that Cole-Yorke-Anderton combo.

It's unfortunate he faces probably the meanest defence around.
 
I expected Kewell left and Ronaldo right TBH. Peak United Ronaldo largely played on the right, didn't he? I know he swapped and played on the left as well, but I would have both players' peak forms on the opposite flank.
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either switch the side or put him against his very well known nemesis.

TBH Ronaldo never stuck to any flank, not at least in his Ballon D'or winning season, very much a free role all across the final third, and having two extremely versatile forwards such as Wayne and Carlos enabled that to a great degree.

I don't have it. Maybe you should start these matches next time!
haha sure, I was waiting for Tuppet's team which never arrived to me.
 
Best of luck @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard . As I expected Ronaldo is starting on left here, now Ronaldo - Berg is a mismatch sure, but as I mentioned berg's instructions to stay back and defend, combined with the fact that he played center back for a treble winning team, he will not be "roasted". Rio helping him out there, along with Anderton as well.
 
I don't rate saha as highly as others for his united stint. He ended up having a very good 75℅ season with us at best
 
I expected Kewell left and Ronaldo right TBH. Peak United Ronaldo largely played on the right, didn't he? I know he swapped and played on the left as well, but I would have both players' peak forms on the opposite flank.

He predominantly started on the right wing but notched up plenty of appearances on the left as well, most famously the 08 CL final when Fergie shifted him to the other wing to exploit the weaker full back :angel:.

There's loads of examples of his work for Utd from the left wing, but I'll start with one of his most famous and crucial goals for us:



and post this tasty example of the Saha/Ronaldo link up too:

fPBzDo.gif
 
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either switch the side or put him against his very well known nemesis.

TBH Ronaldo never stuck to any flank, not at least in his Ballon D'or winning season, very much a free role all across the final third, and having two extremely versatile forwards such as Wayne and Carlos enabled that to a great degree.

The issue is you end up with both cutting inside. Somehow, Wayne Bridge becomes a really important player in that he has to shut out Anderton while being the only attacking fulllback expected to provide width while Cristiano roams around (which is indeed what I would expect to happen).
 
Best of luck @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard . As I expected Ronaldo is starting on left here, now Ronaldo - Berg is a mismatch sure, but as I mentioned berg's instructions to stay back and defend, combined with the fact that he played center back for a treble winning team, he will not be "roasted". Rio helping him out there, along with Anderton as well.

Good luck to you too mate.

Maybe the 'roasted' superlative comes across as too harsh, but Ronaldo surely has the beating of Berg often enough to make a decisive difference
 
As Skizzo/Pat defense, its brilliant no doubt. I'd like to point out, that yorke - cole scored one goal a piece vs a fantastic Juventus team, with Ferrara in Defense, helped by Deschamps and Davids at there peak. I have no doubt that Yorke and Cole are definitely able to create and score, esp because I don't rate skizzo/pat midfield that much and my midfield would create more chances.
 
He predominantly started on the right wing but notched up plenty of appearances on the left as well, most famously the 08 CL final when Fergie shifted him to the other wing to exploit the weaker full back :angel:.

There's loads of examples of his work for Utd from the left wing, but I'll start with one of his most famous and crucial goals for us:

I don't for a moment question his ability to play there, I'm more interested in the implications for overall gameplay.
 
Good luck to you too mate.

Maybe the 'roasted' superlative comes across as too harsh, but Ronaldo surely has the beating of Berg often enough to make a decisive difference
I am not so sure about that, actually there is precedent. I can not find any footage but I remember Berg against Giggs, and him handling giggs really well, not unlike Cole handled Ronaldo.
 
Last edited:
The issue is you end up with both cutting inside. Somehow, Wayne Bridge becomes a really important player in that he has to shut out Anderton while being the only attacking fulllback expected to provide width while Cristiano roams around (which is indeed what I would expect to happen).

Ronaldo/Kewell/Juninho will all roam but we have very few worries about them providing width. Both wingers can go inside and outside on either wing:



Friendly international or not, 0:48 is a nice illustration of what peak Kewell can do versus Ashley Cole, while from 5:10 he embarrasses Rio en route to scoring a lovely goal. Juninho was brilliant at drifting out to the right wing and creating chances too.
 
Also there is not enough mention of Nani, at his peak he was ridiculously good. He would have the beating of Wayne Bridge as well. While Ronaldo won't help out and Skizzo/Pat defense sitting low, Nani would get more space to work his magic -

 
Not even IMO, Tuppet has a better balanced side.

Also wrong flanks for Kewell, Ronaldo for the argument.

Tuppet.
 
Also there is not enough mention of Nani, at his peak he was ridiculously good. He would have the beating of Wayne Bridge as well. While Ronaldo won't help out and Skizzo/Pat defense sitting low, Nani would get more space to work his magic -

Southampton player of the year, 113 straight appearances, great fitness and work rate. Now who's doing the under estimating?

Plus you have Nani on the opposite side to bridge...
 
Southampton player of the year, 113 straight appearances, great fitness and work rate. Now who's doing the under estimating?

Plus you have Nani on the opposite side to bridge...
Ahh Pressure must be getting to me :lol: . To be fair Anderton is even better for this argument -