Also, could the listed squads be posted in the opening post? Would be nice to look at them properly and compare.
Have official squad numbers been released to FIFA yet?
Have official squad numbers been released to FIFA yet?
All-Time Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter antohan
- Start date
Final Flags Graphic
39 countries used in total. Good job, lads.
See if this helps, Cling Bak.
Done
Well that's just false as I'm not dropping Ruminiegge. Best forward partnership in the draft. Only two center backs versus Pele and Ruminieggle? Ok mate. I'd like to see how many times the ball is being picked out of his net.
IMO, Neeskens and Tardelli isn't enough in the centre, both could do with another proper midfielder to bring out the best in them. Surrounded by such attacking wingers and two strikers, they won't be receiving much help at all defensively.
Anyway - I actually really like and respect Iso's team. Some great players there. Been reading up on a lot of players in the draft that I didn't know about as well. Has been a great thread.
Boniek also rated as having a terrific work rate.
Passarella is also capable of going on a run, and both him and Carvalho are terrific passers. They won't be overwhelemed. Thoughts after thinking about that?
There's some serious underappreciation of Pelé going on here if people just see him as a striker. In the 1958 World Cup final he won the ball just outside his own box, two passes later and Brazil score their second goal to go 2-1 up. 12 years later in the 1970 World Cup v Peru he again won the ball back in his own half, two passes later and Jairzinho's scored to kill the game off and put them in the semi-finals. He was a fantastically well-rounded player with an insatiable appetite for the game - of course he'll be doing his bit in defence while adding another body in midfield when required.
Agreed, I'm actually stunned at him being nominally described as a striker. If that's what he was going to be he might as well have got Ronaldo.
Indeed. There's no question he could play as a striker and in '58 he wasn't far off being one, but it'd be a real waste to use him there. His intelligence is by far his most notable quality for me, after that there's his almost flawless passing and first touch, then perhaps his economical but extremely effective dribbling, then comes his pace, power, striking and heading. If he were to be a #9 he'd be a top-class player for sure because he can stretch the defence with his pace, he's an excellent target-man with his leap, heading and chest control (
) and of course he's an excellent goalscorer, but his strengths lie primarily as a #10. I'm not sure why it's been forgotten over the years but Pelé's the one who popularised the #10 role - that alone should tell you of his proficiency as a playmaker.
) and of course he's an excellent goalscorer, but his strengths lie primarily as a #10. I'm not sure why it's been forgotten over the years but Pelé's the one who popularised the #10 role - that alone should tell you of his proficiency as a playmaker.That's true, but in Peles case it would be better as added bonus rather than something the team will need to rely on. Pele running around chasing after Hagi, Zico and Matthaus is not where you want him.
It's a big part of his game rather than a bonus, IMO. It's just part of the whole package in the way Di Stéfano or Cruyff or whoever else will be contributing in all areas of the game. If you're saying Zico and Hagi will outnumber the opposition in midfield then equally Pelé and Boniek will be doing the same. Pelé's remarkable fitness levels can't be underestimated either. He played 20 European games in one month and 100 games in one year purely due to his popularity - evidently he was a machine.
FFS Brwned. I planned on playing Pele BEHIND Ruminiegge but now you have gone and ruined it.
Thought it would give me the shock value - no changce my midfield would be overwhelmed.
You are too good at this. Time to switch tactics for the 3rd time!
Thought it would give me the shock value - no changce my midfield would be overwhelmed.
You are too good at this. Time to switch tactics for the 3rd time!
FFS Brwned. I planned on playing Pele BEHIND Ruminiegge but now you have gone and ruined it.
Thought it would give me the shock value - no changce my midfield would be overwhelmed.
You are too good at this. Time to switch tactics for the 3rd time!
Why? Shock value is not worth having the wrong tactics.
I do see it as a bonus really and don't think it's quite the same as Cruyff or De Stefano.
Zico running around doing a midfield job is what you expect of him, and we know he can still perform to his best whilst doing so. Pele doing a midfield job isn't utilising him to his upmost IMO, he would've been better off next to a striker or number ten who is more inclined to defend but still provide a threat, whilst Pele is free to dictate the attacking aspects.
It's not a huge disadvantage but it will make a difference to my voting, the other team is perfectly set up whilst the one with Pele is a little out of place. Also, I'm not sure when I said Neeskens could do with another midfielder to bring out the best in him I was thinking of someone as attacking as Pele, not even sure I'd suggest a pure number ten. Someone that can give Neeskens more freedom is what I'd aim for, Netzer would be good I thought...
A front four of Pele, Rumenigge, Boniek and Blokhin is too attacking IMO and the duo of Neeskens and Tardelli isn't enough to make up for it against most teams in this draft IMO, including thier first round opponents.
Think you are severely underrating Boniek (especially) in terms of his running. He was a box to box winger if there ever was one. Weird terminology, but its true. And if you think a 5-3-2 is a perfect setup with the players that the opposition has, I really STRONGLY disagree. I think that formation will get ripped to shreds against my boys.
In what sense would Netzer help bring the best out of him? He's far worse defensively than Pelé!
I meant his other formation with Finney.
I don't think I'm underating Boniek to be honest but it's a game of opinions isn't it.
That's what I found utterly bizarre about the Netzer pick. Would need to drop KH to play him, so it necessarily implied Pelé was no more than a striker.
Weirdos.
It's the 1000+ goals thing, it's lead to so many misconceptions about his game and it hides his true genius. Shame.
Love Netzer myself, he's one of the players I was talking about when I said I'd pay to see them train. If I knew he was going to be available so late on I don't think I would've went for Di Stéfano at all. Sensational passer and so graceful, just glided across the pitch.
Love Netzer myself, he's one of the players I was talking about when I said I'd pay to see them train. If I knew he was going to be available so late on I don't think I would've went for Di Stéfano at all. Sensational passer and so graceful, just glided across the pitch.
Far worse? Not at all.
He would occupy a deeper position than Pele naturally which would be a great help, his presence would leave Pele to do what're excels at, and just generally Netzer and Pele is more compact and defensively sound than Rumennige and Pele. Obviously you would lose other attacking qualities but the team has more than enough to compensate.
I didn't pick him, I had no real involvement with either pick because I was busy. IIRC, Fergus advised NM to get Netzer.
Is Boniek really a 'tracking back' winger? all I remember watching him is he's staying wide upfront as a counter attack weapon.
And Pele sometimes drop deep to pick up ball. His work rate is phenomenal for a star.
And Pele sometimes drop deep to pick up ball. His work rate is phenomenal for a star.
Far worse. Netzer was notoriously lazy and a luxury player while Pelé was the complete opposite.
Yeah I'm still ridiculously confused about the tactic I'm gonna use.
Defense done. Midfield up next.
Indeed. I did consider him as an Effenberg sub as the Xavi alongside Iniesta with Rijkaard holding, but it would leave me too lightweight in midfield. I was never really going to get around playing him really.
NOT. A player being nominally in midfield does not mean he contributes anything at all defensively. If anything, you are inviting pressure by removing KH upfront and end up more lightweight in midfield as Pelé is stuck up there and Netzer is just fannying around waiting for someone to get the ball for him. Absolutely mental, unless you do something weird with Blokhin and Boniek.
He was. I may have bummed him way too much when I had him in the 50s draft, but that is the one thing that is unquestionable. He was all over the place, and in a good way. As he lost his pace he was deployed in midfield, then sweeper, a testament to his stamina/workrate, but primarily his reading of the game and inclination to anticipate BOTH opportunities and risks and act on them.
I disagree, and think that the positions that Netzer naturally occupies will benefit Neeskens etc a lot more whilst allowing Pele to do what he does best.
NOT?!?
Anyway, it's not all about defensive duties, it's also about getting the best out of Neeskens. Neeskens has usually played with two proper midfielders next to him, along with the wing options and Cruyff up front but dropping back,
I understand the benefit for Neeskens in that you are solely dedicating him to defensive duties (a bit wasteful, I have to say, but most won't have much of a clue about Neeskens). I don't understand how you allow Pele to do what he does best by removing a centreforward, unless you see him as a free-scoring fox-in-the-box. Muller was much better at that.
What does Pelé do best?
I would've thought people do know about Neeskens?
IMO, it's better to have Pele as striker than it is to assign too much defensive responsibility to him. With the wingers in he team, along with Neeskens and Netzer(not the ideal person) he would still have a licence to drop deep if need be without compromising too much attacking threat.
Be the main attacking threat?
Found more about him, and agree with your description. Superb player.
You've got to take into account the different Pele's here. He either adds plenty to the midfield, acts as a creative force but is less of a goal threat or he is actually is basically a striker, albeit the best in the draft. You can't just merge attributes that appeared in a player at different points in their career.
Maybe I'm wrong there, but my impression is with older players people tend to have a rather rigid view of them. Just picking some examples from this last few pages: Tardelli defence so can't attack, Pelé goals so shouldn't defend, Boniek winger so won't contribute much defensively. Take a player as rounded as Neeskens and my guess is most will stick to one aspect of him, which is criminal.
Schuster was the ideal one for that tweak, not Netzer.
He's never played without a striker alongside him though? Sure, you can play him up top if you want to go for early years Pelé but you have to stick him alongside another forward. For me it's like suggesting you play Rooney up top on his own. The only way I can see him playing as a centre forward is by playing him in that '58 setup but he had Vava to do all the proper centre forward stuff then anyway.
Code:
Gilmar
De Sordi Orlando Bellini N.Santos
Zito
Didi Zagallo
Garrincha
Vava PeléBut the team NM is facing is going to require more defensive attributes than what he above team provides or needed, because of that I'm suggesting they drop a striker, instead of assigning Pele to do it.
I would've had Pele as a number ten too, just off Rumennigge, if the other midfielders were more suited to accomodate that.
To not be getting the best out of your first and second picks is a disaster IMO. If I had made the initial picks that NM did I would be aiming for a formation along the lines of 1970's Holland and Ajax teams.