All-Time Fantasy Draft

antohan said:
You didn't get my point. Terry never went off on one the way Passarella did. The guy next to Passarella must be ready to sweep up behind him when he goes all gung-ho. Carvalho doesn't look to me like someone who sweeps up, doesn't really have some key attributes for it. Neither did Vidic, mind. You would have the same problem with both of those.
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I'd say he's regularly shown his strengths as a sweeper alongside Pepe and Andrade. Deceptively quick, intelligent use of the ball, excellent reading of the game - I think the criticism's harsh. He doesn't match up the defensive colossus' of yesteryear but as far as modern defenders go he's comfortably in that bracket behind Nesta/Rio.
 
NM said:
To be fair, Passarella going off is also a strength - don't look at it only as a weakness.
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Of course it is! I did build my defence around him in another draft. But I had McGrath next to him.

Yes, Carvalho reads the game well and certainly is a better option than Terry (or Vidic) alongside Passarella, but at this level he will be exposed if his partner buggers off all the time. Actually, I thought Thuram would be a better partner and that you should have gone for a RB if you couldn't find a suitable companion.
 
antohan said:
Of course it is! I did build my defence around him in another draft. But I had McGrath next to him.

Yes, Carvalho reads the game well and certainly is a better option than Terry (or Vidic) alongside Passarella, but at this level he will be exposed if his partner buggers off all the time. Actually, I thought Thuram would be a better partner and that you should have gone for a RB if you couldn't find a suitable companion.
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Thuram as a sweeper? we have different ideas of their strengths then.
 
Brwned said:
I'd say he's regularly shown his strengths as a sweeper alongside Pepe and Andrade. Deceptively quick, intelligent use of the ball, excellent reading of the game - I think the criticism's harsh. He doesn't match up the defensive colossus' of yesteryear but as far as modern defenders go he's comfortably in that bracket behind Nesta/Rio.
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Certainly in that bracket, it's the alongside which is key here. He can sweep up effectively with two other CBs, my point is Passarella is bound to leave him stranded in no man's land all too regularly. Some CBs would be ideally suited for that, but not Carvalho IMO.

Anyhow, let's agree to disagree.
 
NM said:
Thuram as a sweeper? we have different ideas of their strengths then.
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Not as a sweeper, as a CB who can hold his own if the other CB buggers off to join the attack, you are left with more space to cover, much like a sweeper.

I'm not saying you need to play a sweeper next to Passarella, nor that Thuram is one. In fact, Carvalho does edge Thuram in some of the necessary attributes TBH.

It does depend on the amount of cover other players can contribute as well. I suppose with the DM pair you have it is safe to assume when Passarella goes forward one of them will cover for him.

Now, if that is not the case and you have uber-attacking fullbacks you certainly are buggered.
 
antohan said:
Not as a sweeper, as a CB who can hold his own if the other CB buggers off to join the attack, you are left with more space to cover, much like a sweeper.

I'm not saying you need to play a sweeper next to Passarella, nor that Thuram is one. In fact, Carvalho does edge Thuram in some of the necessary attributes TBH.

It does depend on the amount of cover other players can contribute as well. I suppose with the DM pair you have it is safe to assume when Passarella goes forward one of them will cover for him.

Now, if that is not the case and you have uber-attacking fullbacks you certainly are buggered.
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Well that's why we took Thuram - a no nonsense fullback who will both nail the opposition winger + help out with needed. Plus I have 2 midfielders who will never stop running. Carvalho will never be isolated imo
 
Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi 4. Krol 5. Zanetti 6. Kocsis 7. Vidic
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta, 4. Gascoigne 5. Makelele 6. McGrath 7. Vogts
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik, 4. Sammer 5. Nedved 6. Valderrama 7. Banks
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o, 4. Cannavaro 5. Coluna 6. Bremner 7. Carlos Alberto
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella 4. Boniek 5. Thuram 6. Tardelli 7. Carvalho
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson 4. R Baggio 5. Charles 6. Tigana 7. Hierro
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão 4. Giggs 5. Matthews 6. Brehme 7. Trésor 8. McGrain
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller 4. Luis Suárez 5. Meazza 6. Schmeichel 7. Rui Costa 8. Nasazzi
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps 4. Gento 5. Stam 6. Law 7. Deco 8. Janes
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner 4. Jairzinho 5. Bergomi 6. Varela 7. Koeman 8. Marzolini
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo 4. Figo 5. Romario 6. Desailly 7. Dzajic 8. Schnellinger
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler 5. Davids 6. Gentile 7. Moreno 8. Nordahl
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti 5. Henry 6. R. Ferdinand 7. Effenberg 8. Vasovic
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness 5. Savicevic 6. Cafu 7. Kubala 8. Van Nistlerooy
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen 5. Hagi 6. Finney 7. Viera 8. Irwin
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust 5. Batistuta 6. Gullit 7. Socrates 8. Amoros
 
antohan said:
You didn't get my point. Terry never went off on one the way Passarella did. The guy next to Passarella must be ready to sweep up behind him when he goes all gung-ho. Carvalho doesn't look to me like someone who sweeps up, doesn't really have some key attributes for it. Neither did Vidic, mind. You would have the same problem with both of those.
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Hinted at something similar when the Passarella pick had a request for critique.

Passarella, like Baresi, needs the right defence around him. I think it's a fair thing to say of all those sweeper types, even if Baresi did play in a flat 4, he was very sweeperish most of the time.

With a key pick like Passarella, the onus is on the drafter to completely optimize him, such is his potential influence on a game.
 
Time i got in a solid keeper. I'll go for German legend, Sepp Maier


Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi 4. Krol 5. Zanetti 6. Kocsis 7. Vidic
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta, 4. Gascoigne 5. Makelele 6. McGrath 7. Vogts
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik, 4. Sammer 5. Nedved 6. Valderrama 7. Banks
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o, 4. Cannavaro 5. Coluna 6. Bremner 7. Carlos Alberto
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella 4. Boniek 5. Thuram 6. Tardelli 7. Carvalho
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson 4. R Baggio 5. Charles 6. Tigana 7. Hierro 8. Maier
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão 4. Giggs 5. Matthews 6. Brehme 7. Trésor 8. McGrain
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller 4. Luis Suárez 5. Meazza 6. Schmeichel 7. Rui Costa 8. Nasazzi
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps 4. Gento 5. Stam 6. Law 7. Deco 8. Janes
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner 4. Jairzinho 5. Bergomi 6. Varela 7. Koeman 8. Marzolini
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo 4. Figo 5. Romario 6. Desailly 7. Dzajic 8. Schnellinger
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler 5. Davids 6. Gentile 7. Moreno 8. Nordahl
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti 5. Henry 6. R. Ferdinand 7. Effenberg 8. Vasovic
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness 5. Savicevic 6. Cafu 7. Kubala 8. Van Nistlerooy
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen 5. Hagi 6. Finney 7. Viera 8. Irwin
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust 5. Batistuta 6. Gullit 7. Socrates 8. Amoros
 
Who has got NM and Thisistheone's picks.
 
We pick 1975 Ballon D'or winner, Oleh Blokhin.

Dunno about thisistheone, NM didn't PM it me!
 
Theon said:
We pick 1975 Ballon D'or winner, Oleh Blokhin.

Dunno about thisistheone, NM didn't PM it me!
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Cannot believe he lasted this long, and some of the picks that went before him in the same position made it even stranger.

Great pick up.
 
Fortitude said:
Cannot believe he lasted this long, and some of the picks that went before him in the same position made it even stranger.

Great pick up.
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Aye it's great, had him penned in from the beginning but we kept pushing our luck and hoping he'd last. Blokhin and Boniek is a beautiful threat down the sides.

We have a cracking pick coming up next too :drool:
 
World Cup winner Laurent Blanc for me.

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A lot of my centre back options went in the last go so I've gone for Blanc who will complement Cannavaro well with his cool, calming presence and ability on the ball.
 
I'll pick Juan Alberto Schiaffino.

Here's a little description of the man

, Schiaffino made his mark with Peñarol, one of that city's two famous clubs. A players' strike before the 1959 South American Cup tournament meant that the Uruguayans entered a team made up, technically, of amateurs, but, as one of them, Schiaffino comfortably held his own against more established players. By 1950, he was a major star, an outstanding positional player who could dribble past opponents with ease.

The vagaries of the 1950 competition, which attracted only 13 finalists, meant that, to qualify for the final pool, Uruguay had merely to beat the feeble Bolivians; this they did 8-0, with Schiaffino helping himself to four of the goals. A contorted system decreed there be no final as such; the winners of the final pool would take the cup, and Brazil had a one point lead over the Uruguayans. All they needed to win was a draw.

Uruguay held out against terrific pressure, with Brazil urged on by a fanatical crowd. When Friaca scored for Brazil early in the second half, that seemed to be that. But twice in the first half, Schiaffino had threatened a goal. When served by Miguez, and the little right-winger Ghiggia, he struck a shot which the Brazilian keeper, Barbosa, only just managed to reach. Then, coming suddenly to life from seeming torpor, Schiaffino dribbled his way clean through Brazil's defence, only for Barbosa to frustrate him again.

But it could not last. For all the crowd's triumphalism, Schiaffino had plainly found the range. In the second half, Uruguay counter-attacked often and crisply. Obdulio Varela, their heroic centre-half and captain, sent Chico Ghiggia flying down the right wing. His cross, astoundingly, found Schiaffino unmarked. He took four strides forward, then walloped his shot past Barbosa to make the Uruguayans level. Fourteen minutes later, Ghiggia scored the winner.
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Left backs are at a premium now but happy to get one with over 400 caps for Real Madrid during their dominance of La Liga in the 70s/80s. Jose Antonio Camacho

camacho-real-madrid.jpg
 
Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi 4. Krol 5. Zanetti 6. Kocsis 7. Vidic
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta, 4. Gascoigne 5. Makelele 6. McGrath 7. Vogts 8. Camacho
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik, 4. Sammer 5. Nedved 6. Valderrama 7. Banks 8. Schiaffino
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o, 4. Cannavaro 5. Coluna 6. Bremner 7. Carlos Alberto 8. Blanc
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella 4. Boniek 5. Thuram 6. Tardelli 7. Carvalho 8. Blokhin
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson 4. R Baggio 5. Charles 6. Tigana 7. Hierro 8. Maier
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão 4. Giggs 5. Matthews 6. Brehme 7. Trésor 8. McGrain
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller 4. Luis Suárez 5. Meazza 6. Schmeichel 7. Rui Costa 8. Nasazzi
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps 4. Gento 5. Stam 6. Law 7. Deco 8. Janes
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner 4. Jairzinho 5. Bergomi 6. Varela 7. Koeman 8. Marzolini
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo 4. Figo 5. Romario 6. Desailly 7. Dzajic 8. Schnellinger
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler 5. Davids 6. Gentile 7. Moreno 8. Nordahl
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti 5. Henry 6. R. Ferdinand 7. Effenberg 8. Vasovic
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness 5. Savicevic 6. Cafu 7. Kubala 8. Van Nistlerooy
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen 5. Hagi 6. Finney 7. Viera 8. Irwin
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust 5. Batistuta 6. Gullit 7. Socrates 8. Amoros
 
Question for the drafters: how many popular, genuine vote-winning names do you reckon are left out there?

Popular being the operative word, not necessarily quality.
 
Fortitude said:
Question for the drafters: how many popular, genuine vote-winning names do you reckon are left out there?

Popular being the operative word, not necessarily quality.
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I can think of quite a few off the top of my head who are currently playing or have retired within the last 10 years or so. The nationality rule does make it tricky for most teams though and will mean a few big names miss out completely.
 
Fortitude said:
Cannot believe he lasted this long, and some of the picks that went before him in the same position made it even stranger.

Great pick up.
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Neither do I, particularly with him featuring and winning in the final of the 50s game and being Ukrainian! They were very lucky I didn't get him this round (I guess that's why they waited for my turn to announce their reinforcements coming soon :lol:)

I think I know Nms next pick as well, the delay on that makes more sense.
 
KM said:
I'll pick Juan Alberto Schiaffino.

Here's a little description of the man
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For those not making any sense of the "1959 player strike", it was in 48 and 49, Obdulio was the one leading it. One of the lesser know tidbits about him, he was effectively the Jimmy Hill of Uruguayan football.
 
DanNistelrooy said:
Left backs are at a premium now but happy to get one with over 400 caps for Real Madrid during their dominance of La Liga in the 70s/80s. Jose Antonio Camacho
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You'd better not come up against EDogen or he will produce a very random clip of "Dzajic v. Camacho" that is floating around on the internet.

In fairness, despite it being made with a clear Dzajic agenda, you end up concluding Camacho was a lot better than thought and Dzajic not as good (past his prime).
 
antohan said:
Neither do I, particularly with him featuring and winning in the final of the 50s game and being Ukrainian! They were very lucky I didn't get him this round (I guess that's why they waited for my turn to announce their reinforcements coming soon :lol:)

I think I know Nms next pick as well, the delay on that makes more sense.
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:lol: Precisely right. You were the one I thought would snap him up.
 
antohan said:
You'd better not come up against EDogen or he will produce a very random clip of "Dzajic v. Camacho" that is floating around on the internet.

In fairness, despite it being made with a clear Dzajic agenda, you end up concluding Camacho was a lot better than thought and Dzajic not as good (past his prime).
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I watched that clip yesterday, good stuff!
 
Fortitude said:
Question for the drafters: how many popular, genuine vote-winning names do you reckon are left out there?

Popular being the operative word, not necessarily quality.
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Not sure with that caveat as I've ignored purely popular but not quality players. I still have a list of > 70 players worthy of being picked. Probably a lot more as I had completely ignored including those I was never going to pick considering the nationality rule (e.g. Maier, but also van Nistelrooy).

Out of those just over 20 could be considered both quality and popular. Those 20 would be pretty obvious, some I'm very surprised haven't gone as they aren't German/Brazilian/Italian which are the main tricky nationalities. But I guess you would find a shortlist of 10-20 that I consider quality but not popular quite a shocker.

As I said earlier, I had a bag of 8-10 AMs and FWD that I was equally bothered about picking as I would always sub them out later and no one would give a rats about the difference between them anyway. There's still a fair few in there, and that's already taking out the nationalities I have picked from!
 
EDogen said:
I watched that clip yesterday, good stuff!
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There's a better one which shows dribbles, crosses, free kicks... The shame is most of the dribbling examples, while :drool:, he ends up dispossesed eventually, or makes a rubbish cross. You conclude he wasn't as good as made out to be, then they move to FKs and you think "lots of people score from FKs, is that all you've got?". Only when I was about to stop wasting my time, they show you actual good crosses, then goals, etc.

It's a very strange clip.
 
antohan said:
There's a better one which shows dribbles, crosses, free kicks... The shame is most of the dribbling examples, while :drool:, he ends up dispossesed eventually, or makes a rubbish cross. You conclude he wasn't as good as made out to be, then they move to FKs and you think "lots of people score from FKs, is that all you've got?". Only when I was about to stop wasting my time, they show you actual good crosses, then goals, etc.

It's a very strange clip.
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Yepp, I watched that also. First minutes I thought "what is this?" but then the good part started as you say. I'm happy with Dzajic and Figo running my wings.
 
Fergus is a right lazy fecker, he's never around in the mornings.
 
Theon said:
Fergus is a right lazy fecker, he's never around in the mornings.
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:lol:

I actually have to get some work done in the mornings and I wasn't expecting the picks to move so fast!

Albert Shesternyov
Pirri
 
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