All-time Fantasy Draft - KM v Paceme

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics, balance & bench strength?

  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .

Brwned

Have you ever been in love before?
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
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50,937
KM said:
Sorry for the delay

Tactics
The formation will be a 4-3-3.
In Banks I’ve got one of the top 3 greats in goalkeeping department.
The full back pairing of Santos and Lizarazu is among the best in the draft and both of them will provide the width for me while Schiaffino and Nedved cut inside and create havoc in the box creating space for Messi.
The central back pairing of Jan Popluhar and Scirea is the classic partnership of ball playing defender and a stopper. Both of them are absolute world class.
Valderrama will be the playmaker and will continue look to feed throughballs(which he was renowned for) to Messi. Sammer will be my box to box midfielder, whereas Bozsik will be my deep lying playmaker.

And ofcourse then there’s Messi

Subs: Busquets and Robben

KM said:
Switched to a 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2 which will mean that Paceme's clogging of midfield will make it impossible for him to track my wing backs.

Sammer will be playing in his position in which he was awarded WPOTY. Nedved came into prominence as a all action midfielder in the Euro 96.

Messi and Schiffiano as a front two is the best front two in the whole game.
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KM

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KM said:
At 16-16 Busquets is subbed on.
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Paceme

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I am playing a 4-1-2-1-2 formation, which will dominate KM’s strong midfield with quite simply, a massive numerical advantage gained with four natural midfielders and Gullit who will drop into midfield when needed, creating an utterly compressed middle. The lack of width is an obvious issue but Garrido and Amoros were both very adventurous full backs (especially Garrido.) They will both push up the field which will not be too much of an issue since KM also lacks width in his set up (Nedved did play of a winger for some periods of course but he often played a more narrow game than expected of a traditional winger) To make up for the lack of numbers when they push up, Valery Voronin will drop back into defence (which is a position he played multiple times for his country and his club) creating a back three or when under pressure from his three pronged attack a back five.

Schuster, Masopust and Socrates are all extremely comfortable in possession, all skilled dribblers and all can hold their own against physical midfields. Bozsik, while a brilliant player, was not blessed with much power and relied more on his brilliant technical skills, this will certainly work against KM, especially with the main man in my team bearing down on him.

Gullit is that man. Power, pace and technical brilliance, when on top form he is practically unstoppable. He will bear down on the whole back 4 and their protection just like he did at Milan. Playing off him is the top all time Argentina goal scorer Gabriel Batistuta who like Gullit is a constant bother to any defender, he will be in both KMs defenders faces all game and will capitalize on any slip up what so ever, and if there are no slip ups I’m sure all United fans remember what sort of thing he can do from any range ;)

While I mentioned earlier that Voronin will be moving into defence when needed his main role will be to stick to Messi like glue and constantly harass him. While the rest of his attack is good a defence like mine should be able to handle them and limit them to very few genuine chances.

Subs: David Beckham, Dave Mackay
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I'm not sure how my team lacks width. My Fullbacks will give me width especially Djalma who was said to be one of the best fullbacks ever.

Also my subs are Busquets and Robben.
 
If not for Sammer and Scirea clashing, KM's team would be perfectly set up for a 352/532. Schiaffino and Messi are both comfortable as goalscoring forwards on the inside or dribbling terrors out wide - perfect for the space they'll get in that two man attack. Nedved's all round game is fully utilised alongside Bozsik while Valderrama is given even more licence to float about and dictate things as he will. It'd really have to be Scirea playing as a centre back with Sammer as the libero which isn't using the Italian in the best way but it'd still work. And then you've got even more width from your wingbacks.

The diamond is very difficult to implement properly with the right kind of players but paceme's team does seem to be ideally set up. Ironically, I think this game'll be an interesting tactical battle!
 
Paceme, I've voted for my team mate so that I don't have to click on view polling results everytime to see the votes. I suggest you do the same!
 
paceme said:
I can't see how any of KM's midfielders would have space to float about. They wouldn't get more than a few seconds on the ball at a time.
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Well by clogging the midfield by the players, you've a risk of leaving Schiaffino and Nedved with spaces. That could be a bit of a disaster for your team!
 
Paceme's midfield is stronger for me..... Messi without Xaviesta..... Batistuta supported by 4-5 players who can break forward with sublime moments of magic.

Has to be Paceme all the way in this one
 
AldoRaine18 said:
Two of the best headers of the ball in Gullit and Batigol and no genuine width. Shame.
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Aye. I'm playing to my strength of having Messi by playing him in the middle of a 3 and the rest of the players as inside forwards as Barcelona tend to do.

Paceme have negated Batigol's main strength that is heading by not having any decent width.
 
paceme said:
I can't see how any of KM's midfielders would have space to float about. They wouldn't get more than a few seconds on the ball at a time.
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That was more of an abstract comment just looking at KM's team on its own merits, indeed I quickly edited that post to account for your superb midfield quartet. I don't really know where I stand on this because it feels like I'd actually have to play this game out in my head...will be a few hours before I've even given myself time to think about it! I personally am not a huge fan of Sócrates I must say but with Masopust, Schuster and Voronin (who I've still yet to watch) backing him up you can't really have many complaints. He'll have all the support he needs to just exert his own unique influence without being over-burdened with creative responsibilities. Nicely done. Though I would echo Aldo's disappointment over the lack of pure width despite the excellence of your fullbacks.
 
I reckon due to friday night and all, the voting turnout will be far less today.
 
Where's paceme's teamsheet? How did he get two votes without one? :confused:
 
Agree with Brwned that i'd love to see Sammer playing sweeper as he was absolutely outstanding there, but i can also see why Scirea has scuppered that idea.

No doubt Paceme's side will outnumber in centre midfield, but i cant help but think its a bit of overkill, and with Gullit i suspect wanting to drop deep aswell it could be a real clusterfeck in there. I'm not sure how his fullbacks will get on with no-one in front of them, it seems like a big ask and i'm not sure if its one they've carried out before. I also think paceme is badly missing a ball carrier, whereas KM has the obvious threat of Messi and Nedved to a lesser extent.

I'll wait a bit longer to vote but at the minute i'm siding with KM
 
paceme said:
Masopust was renowned for his dribbling and Gullit is no slouch with the ball either, nor Schuster.
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Do you think your fullbacks could struggle to get forward if they are preoccupied with Nedved and Schiaffino, ably supported by Lizarazu and Santos, and of course Messi dropping out wide also? Just trying to work out where your width is coming from
 
Right bit of a formation switch.

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Switched to a 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2 which will mean that Paceme's clogging of midfield will make it impossible for him to track my wing backs.

Sammer will be playing in his libero position in which he was awarded WPOTY. Nedved came into prominence as a all action midfielder in the Euro 96.

Messi and Schiffiano as a front two is the best front two in the whole game which makes it pretty impossible for Paceme's center backs.

For those who don't know Schiffiano is probably one of Uruguay's greatest players and was rated 17th in IFFHS's greatest players of 20th century.
 
I'm not pretending to have any massive width. My full backs will push forward but I'm trying to bullshit you into thinking it will be the same as two wingers. They are there to keep his full backs wary of pushing forward too far. Both his flank players play very narrow and will not be constantly running fown the wing which means often they will be swallowed up by my back line- which is the best in the draft.
 
I don't think both his flanks are very narrow. Nedved played as a proper winger many times in his career and he can provide width as well as most wingers out there.
 
Well I can't change feck all since I'm at work :lol: that's an early change up. Has Messi ever actually played in a duo up top?

I would drop Voronin back into defence here, creating a back five with Schuster, Socrates Masopust in midfield, Gullit linking up with them and Batistuta leading the line.
 
Odd, paceme looks infinitely better than I expected (what was Schuster doing on the left wing and Gullit on the right in his trial teamsheets I will never know). It looks like the best he could put together from that squad, no question.

KM the opposite. Nedved doesn't strike me as someone to be playing all the way up there, the double libero thing is pretty odd, Djalma Santos was the more defensive of the two Santos so no width up there as I would fully expect Gordillo to be pushing him back and not viceversa, and I'm not quite clear on how Boszik, Valderrama (and Nedved) stack up creatively.

The immediate impression I get is KM is stuck in a losing battle through the middle, while the flanks look like fullback motorways. Motorways that paceme is probably exploiting better given the solid central unit they can rely on and midfield dominance.

KM needs to take this on board pronto. He is never going to win this through the middle and needs to take charge of the flanks. Some have suggested 3-5-2, not a bad call at all. Alternatively, ditch Valderrama for Robben and have both him and Nedved working the flanks from a deeper position with Schiaffino as a support striker to Messi. Boszik as DLP alongside Sammer. Leaves an awful lot of work for Sammer to do in central midfield, but he already has it TBH... The 3-5-2 may be the more defensively robust midfield alternative then.

Either way, as it stands, he is a goner so something needs to be done about it.
 
KM said:
Right bit of a formation switch.

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Switched to a 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2 which will mean that Paceme's clogging of midfield will make it impossible for him to track my wing backs.

Sammer will be playing in his libero position in which he was awarded WPOTY. Nedved came into prominence as a all action midfielder in the Euro 96.

Messi and Schiffiano as a front two is the best front two in the whole game which makes it pretty impossible for Paceme's center backs.

For those who don't know Schiffiano is probably one of Uruguay's greatest players and was rated 17th in IFFHS's greatest players of 20th century.
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Good call, was just writing about it. Would bring on Busquets for Valderrama myself, but you can ride it like this for a while before making that call.
 
paceme said:
Well I can't change feck all since I'm at work :lol: that's an early change up. Has Messi ever actually played in a duo up top?

I would drop Voronin back into defence here, creating a back five with Schuster, Socrates Masopust in midfield, Gullit linking up with them and Batistuta leading the line.
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Ouch! You positive about that?
 
A sweeper in the team who isn't Scirea? Interesting to see how this goes down....
 
paceme said:
Well let's think of another way. Voronin wil stay in midfield marking Messi who will not stay as a striker. Socrates is going to drop deeper which will decimate KMs flimsy new midfield and stop any supply to the wide players.

You need the ball to supply wingers. KM won't get it.
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Socrates dropping deeper won't make much difference, but Gullit would. Maybe both him and Socrates supporting Batistuta, with Gullit putting a shift in midfield as and when?

I would keep Voronin put indeed, that's why I asked. He can drop back if needed, but I think he is better used where he is.

At the ouset, I had you winning this, now it looks like a rather messy affair that could go either way. Subs also afford KM more flexibility while you are somewhat stuck with rather central players.

I'll sit out for now.
 
paceme said:
Gullit already is supporting Batistuta. It's pointless giving him a fixed role of just 'striker' or 'midfielder' as when at his best he is both at the same time as well as most in this draft.
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Yes, but the way you have positioned him looks like he is primarily upfront alongside him as a pair. It is not immediately straightforward that you are assigning him any sort of midfield duty, which I think you should, and it would help if it is represented in the formation graphic.

Let's put it this way: players move, but their positioning is a rough indicator of their average position. That's why it baffled me that someone assumed Rijkaard was marking Davids yesterday! Nothing at all, let alone common sense, indicated that was the case.

Positioning Gullit alongside Batistuta doesn't at all tell me that he will actually be going all the way back to midfield, helping out with recovery, building up play with Socrates and eventually joining up with Bati in the final phase.

We've already seen a discussion on the main thread where someone bangs on about how Pelé should stay upfront as a line leader rather than do that sort of thing. Therefore, I won't be assuming anything about what a player is doing unless you explicitly state it, and the teamsheet is the best way to state it for all those who won't bother reading.

It is not rare to find teamsheets completely out of sync with what the players are meant to be doing, sometimes because they look prettier/more attacking/more symmetric, god knows, but if Gullit remains up there on your teamsheet he is playing upfront.
 
I really like paceme avatar. The more you look at it, the more you're drawn into it.
 
I'm confused by KMs new set up. He now has less width but thinks he has more ? The full backs alone aren't going to cause gigantic problems and his midfield which was getting dominated before will now not stand a chance. Bozsic is the only player capable of winning the ball with any regularity with others being a attacking midfielder and a forward. He will never have the fecking ball.
 
It makes your post look more sophisticated, paceme.
 
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