Valencia:
All-Time Club XIs
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
That's really interesting. I didn't even think twice about putting Matthaeus in because, well, he's Matthaeus and I just assumed he was stellar at that time, too, which would earn him his move away from the club.Yeah, Effenberg > Danner for Gladbach is a pretty easy decision in my opinion. In fact, I'd pick Effenberg over Matthäus as well. Matthäus would be the first to go. Effenberg came back to Gladbach after his spell in Italy and regained his strength. His 2nd spell there was brilliant and on par with what he showed at Bayern between 98 and 02.
I'd prefer Bonhof in midfield, but the lack of a quality leftback and Bonhof's quality, versatility and experience as a wingback mean, he should do a job there.
The more I think about it, the more I'd like to kick Matthäus out of the team.
Simonsen Heynckes
Netzer
Effenberg ---- Wimmer
Stielike
Bonhof Andersson Hannes Vogts
Kleff
Much better.
The following is by the way the Gladbach XI of the century the fans voted in 2000:
Koeppel gets no consideration?
I avoided a back four for them because it looks weak. As you say, no LB, and I don't rate the CB pairing.
Everton -
Yeah, but at right wing? Brady deserves a LW spot!
Valencia:
No David Silva?
He was already great, no doubt. But he left early in his career, in 1984. He just became a regular starter for the nationalteam but failed to have a big impact in our bad performances at the Euro. It's mostly talent with one great final season. Then he was off to Bayern.
Nope. Not even close, Heynckes gets to play in his best position.
I actually thought about picking Dante as the left centerback and go with
Simonsen - Heynckes
Netzer
Bonhof - Effenberg - Matthäus - Wimmer
Dante - Stielike - Vogts
Kleff
to avoid the problems with their defenders. Dante was pretty immense in his final 2 years at Gladbach.Netzer
Bonhof - Effenberg - Matthäus - Wimmer
Dante - Stielike - Vogts
Kleff
Fluminese:
I think Silva became a much better player in England than he was at Valencia where he was quite flakey and inconsistent. Wouldn't take any of those out to put him in, personally.
Would have him City's xi, though.
Did think of Dante, but then backed out of it. But would definitely go with a back 3 for them even if their traditional brilliance came in the system you initially put up.
The biggest revelation for me is that which you mention of Matthaeus. I was a little surprised when you said he'd be the first to go. I'll bear that in mind for future reference. I did a lot of research on B.M a few years ago because they fascinated me as one of modern football's forgotten teams - it's amazing how few people know how great a side they were in the 70's - so I was intrigued to find out more about them.
I would have kicked Matthäus out as well. Bonhof, Wimmer, Effenberg, Stielike and Netzer get in there first as club XI players. Then it's a matter of whether the tactics allow for Lothar or not.
Last two.
River Plate:
Boca Juniors:
River Plate:
Boca Juniors:
I don't want to downplay Matthäus' quality. He was excellent for Gladbach, no doubt about that. He almost instantly was a regular starter and part of the team that went to the UEFA cup final in 1980. He was a very young but obviously great talent and had his real break-out season in 83/84, when he helped Gladbach to finish 3rd again (ahead of Bayern) after a few mediocre years and reach the cup final.
But he competes with absolutely brilliant players in midfield who either were part of the glory years (Netzer, Bonhof, Stielike, Wimmer) or actually played their peak football for a while at Gladbach (Effenberg). It's no slight on Matthäus that he hadn't surpassed any of them at the beginning of his career yet. He went on to do that soon enough.
And yes I agree. I consider their 70's side the most entertaining German club side ever and they have a great case to be the best club side that never won the European Cup/Champions League. Absolutely wonderful football team and more often than not actually beat Bayern to the Bundesliga title during the 70's.
That's what must clearly drive the selection, not whether Matthäus went on to be the best of the lot.
Thread time!
OK, I understand you regarding L.M. That's more how I saw it initially, but with it in his favour for being L.M rather than it being a knock on any of the other guys (he took Bonhof's spot every time I thought about it) but it's a great bunch of mdifielders either way... just looks odd without L.M in there, for me.
Zoff for me because of Scirea connection (and he is the first name on my list). The same with Italy - if you pick Scirea, you pick Zoff, if you pick Baresi you can pick Buffon (and, sadly, they can be realistically in one team at the same time
)Rep on the right maybe?
....Rijkaard......Neeskens....
............Bergkamp............
..Rep......MVB......Cruyff..
Mine is in terms of my personal choice but I'd kill to see this team play. Mostly obvious choices of course and I don't remember the likes of Robson well enough.
Yeah can't really disagree with that, though leaving Boniperti out is a tough call specially with Charles in there, but I love the Czech Fury as much as anyone else, he's awesome, he gets in.Agreed. I wasn't really thinking who else should go in a structured way, just struck me as odd both Boniperti and Platini were chucked in random places to accomodate Baggio. Great player sure, but if you have to look at their contribution to the club Baggio goes straight out of the window.
Juve legends that absolutely have to be in it: Platini, Del Piero, Scirea, Zoff/Buffon (ouch! impossible choice) and I'd argue Boniperti for his body of work both on and off the pitch.
That already lands you in hot waters: how can you realistically fit Platini-Del Piero-Boniperti? Before Baggio even gets into the conversation you already have a huge problem. I suppose the easy way out of thaat is dropping Boniperti.
Along with Scirea, Gentile is a shoe-in, as is Cabrini. Last spot is very difficult: Brio, Ferrara, Montero, Thuram and Cannavaro can all make a case, Chiellini too somewhat. I'd be inclined to go with on of the LCBs to better cover Cabrini and form a three in his absence. Since a Montero pick would be controversial I'll go with Chiellini, but it should have been Paolo. Harsh on Ferrara who should be there on relative merit but sticking him between Scirea and Gentile looks off.
The midfield is a tough one, it hugely depends on how you want to build the side. But if you consider Platini and the backline some form of lop-sided formation akin to the 80s one is in order. Furino, Tardelli, Bonini, Davids, Deschamps, Conte... Again you run into what is best for the side vs. the best players. Muppet in me says Davids and Tardelli, but it looks really harsh on Furino.
So far:
----------------Zoff/Buffon
Gentile----Scirea----Chiellini----Cabrini
---------Tardelli----------Davids
-------------------Platini
XXXXX---------------------------------------
-------------Striker----Del Piero (arrow back towards flank)
For XXXXX you can only have Boniek or Nedved I reckon. Let's pick Nedved as otherwise it's too much of an 80s side (their best ever, same problem as with Milan and the likes of Pirlo really).
Who plays striker? Charles? Looks a bit odd, but probably the one that has all the attributes to best perform given the company.
feck controversy:
Being a major Thuram fan I would love to have him but I can see the rationale of taking Montero given him being the LCB. I would actually say Gentile and Thuram is a decent debate, Gentile obviously being Gaetano's deputy is a big reason, but you can probably select them based on what era you are playing in. Again bordering on fanboyism but Thuram for me is one of those players who improves every single team he's added to, so complete, and determined. feck it, Thuram gets in on mine, and probably the only change I'd make from your team. I don't care if that's me being irrational, Thuram > reason.
Buffon/Zoff is clearly impossible. I've struggled to think how a keeper could better a prime Buffon (that includes Yashin). The man has a legit claim to being the greatest keeper of all time so one can never question his inclusion in any XI, be it Juve or Italy.
Davids > Seedorf
I would move Neeskens to the right and put Davids next to him.....or the muppet as i am and taking into acount my love for Bergkamp i would play diamond with Bergkamp instead of Swart.
To be honest , Rep belongs more in the ASSE XI than Ajax XI, which would also include the likes of Platini and Rocheteau.
You only have to have a look at a picture of Mike Pejic to know you'd never want to be facing him.
Fuller and Stein were amazing for us. Plus it was voted for by our fans so it won't necessarily be the best players but the most loved.
Zoff for me because of Scirea connection (and he is the first name on my list). The same with Italy - if you pick Scirea, you pick Zoff, if you pick Baresi you can pick Buffon (and, sadly, they can be realistically in one team at the same time
There's different takes on that I guess.
Familiarity/proven together: Zoff. But then, Buffon had great defences in front of him but none like that one. You could make aa very strong case for him being more important to Juve than Zoff was (in relative terms).
Ultimately, I went for the logic of representing different time periods as much as possible where possible. I think Scirea necessarily leads you to Cabrini and Gentile, it defines the entire setup in a way Zoff doesn't so can make way for Gigi.
At least that was my take on it, I get yours. As said, a very tight call either way.
Yeah can't really disagree with that, though leaving Boniperti out is a tough call specially with Charles in there, but I love the Czech Fury as much as anyone else, he's awesome, he gets in.
Being a major Thuram fan I would love to have him but I can see the rationale of taking Montero given him being the LCB. I would actually say Gentile and Thuram is a decent debate, Gentile obviously being Gaetano's deputy is a big reason, but you can probably select them based on what era you are playing in. Again bordering on fanboyism but Thuram for me is one of those players who improves every single team he's added to, so complete, and determined. feck it, Thuram gets in on mine, and probably the only change I'd make from your team. I don't care if that's me being irrational, Thuram > reason.
Buffon/Zoff is clearly impossible. I've struggled to think how a keeper could better a prime Buffon (that includes Yashin). The man has a legit claim to being the greatest keeper of all time so one can never question his inclusion in any XI, be it Juve or Italy.
AFAIC it isn't even a contest from the moment Thuram buggered off when they were demoted to Serie B. If I were a hardcore Juve fan I'd tell you the Parma boys can both feck right off being in my XI. In fact, that was yet another reason I plumped for Buffon over Zoff and Nedved over Boniek. Proven loyalty when the chips are down is big with me!
Yet another forgotten 70s side.
Yep, fair enough.
The classic thread, appears in some form at least once a year
Anyway I have always said that United could have one of the best fantasy teams ever.
In fact we could field at least 4 sides that would hold their own in a mythical tournament in the footballing heavens. Here is the four I picked
Schmeichel
Neville
Edwards
Ferdinand
Irwin
Best
Keane
Charlton
Giggs
Ronaldo
Law
Gregg
Byrne
Stam
Vidic
Dunne
Beckham
Scholes
Robson
Morgan
Rooney
Cantona
Van der Sar
Carey
Bruce
Pallister
Cantwell
Coppell
Carrick
Crerand
Kanchelskis
Van Nistelrooy
Violett
De Gea
Albiston
McGrath
Buchan
Evra
Sharpe
Whiteside
Ince
Macari
McClair
Hughes
Anyway I have always said that United could have one of the best fantasy teams ever.
In fact we could field at least 4 sides that would hold their own in a mythical tournament in the footballing heavens. Here is the four I picked
Schmeichel
Neville
Edwards
Ferdinand
Irwin
Best
Keane
Charlton
Giggs
Ronaldo
Law
Gregg
Byrne
Stam
Vidic
Dunne
Beckham
Scholes
Robson
Morgan
Rooney
Cantona
Van der Sar
Carey
Bruce
Pallister
Cantwell
Coppell
Carrick
Crerand
Kanchelskis
Van Nistelrooy
Violett
De Gea
Albiston
McGrath
Buchan
Evra
Sharpe
Whiteside
Ince
Macari
McClair
Hughes
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Palmeiras
Someone wanna do River Plate? Sao Paulo? Santos? Botafogo? Independiente?
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my badArce ahead of Djalma Santos?
Been sitting on them but didn't want to finish them as there is at least one player per team that I don't know by heart myself, so feels wrong to include them or post them. Will post some Placar Magazine edition though.
Placar Magazine (1994)
Santos
------------------Gilmar
Carlos Alberto - Mauro Ramos - Calvet - Rildo
--------------Zito - Clodoaldo
-------------------Pelé
Dorval - -------Coutinho -----------Pepe
Placar Magazine (1994)
Botafogo
-------------------------Manga
Carlos Alberto - Basso - Sebastião Leônidas - Nílton Santos
--------------------Didi ---------- Gérson
---------------------------Amarildo
---------Garrincha - Heleno de Freitas - Jairzinho
Leonidas over Heleno if it wasn't for him having just played a season.
Placar Magazine (1994)
Flamengo
------------------------Raul
Leandro - Domingos da Guia - Mozer - Júnior
---------------------Dequinha
------------------Zizinho - Zico
---------Joel - Leônidas da Silva - Bebeto
Romario should be included somehow but he's excluded for joining after the list was made.
There have been some attempts at River and Sao Paulo. São Paulo is pretty straight forward for the most part, River is a nightmare though. Santos is probably the 60s side with Neymar and maybe 1 or 2 more but I'm in no position to do it any justice.
CR Vasco da Gama
------------------Barbosa----------------
----Bellini---Mauro Galvão---Domingos da Guia-----
---Danilo-----Juninho----Juninho Pernambucano----Felipe
--------Edmundo-----Romario----Roberto Dinamite-----
Cruzeiro
-------------------Dida-------------
--Nelinho--Perfumo--Luisão--Sorín--
---------------Piazza--------------
-------Valdo----Dirceu Lopes------
------------Alex------------------
-----Jairzinho-----Tostão
------------------Barbosa----------------
----Bellini---Mauro Galvão---Domingos da Guia-----
---Danilo-----Juninho----Juninho Pernambucano----Felipe
--------Edmundo-----Romario----Roberto Dinamite-----
Cruzeiro
-------------------Dida-------------
--Nelinho--Perfumo--Luisão--Sorín--
---------------Piazza--------------
-------Valdo----Dirceu Lopes------
------------Alex------------------
-----Jairzinho-----Tostão
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Give us one for Peñarol.
Flamengo:
Penarol:
Stupid site wouldn't let me do the extremely wide 4-2-4.
Gradin (LWF); Juan Joya (RWF); Mascheroni (LB); V.Andrade (RB)
Stupid site wouldn't let me do the extremely wide 4-2-4.
Gradin (LWF); Juan Joya (RWF); Mascheroni (LB); V.Andrade (RB)
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Give us one for Peñarol.
Very tempted but, like with River, the forwards present a massive dilemma and you can't fathom 4 at the back which wouldn't bring similar quality.
Three at the back is just wrong though.
Santos:
What @antohan said was right about Santos, so I tried to do an alternative that shuffled Neymar over to the right and added Alex, otherwise it'd just be Pele's side, which wouldn't be much fun.
What @antohan said was right about Santos, so I tried to do an alternative that shuffled Neymar over to the right and added Alex, otherwise it'd just be Pele's side, which wouldn't be much fun.
two in the back
Botafogo:
Anyone going to try the Eastern Block?
Off to watch the footy.
Off to watch the footy.