ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances

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So I take it you admit you are Eaststand..

WHy dont you tell everyone about your famous "10 questions"

:lol:

You know.. the 10 questions, where you asked number one, got proven to be a complete jerk, and then ran off refusing to ask the other 9.

Why dont you tell us?
 
That's not the only thing being discussed here though is it. How about those dismissing the fans protests against the owners. Does that mean they don't have a problem with the issues the Glazers have brought?

I cant speak for others but I have said time and time again that in this thread I prefer to discuss only our financial situation and analyse the results released by the club in the bond prospectus and then the quarterlies.
Several posters have made it clear that they dont feel that is worthwhile (for obvious reasons) and have tried to stop that from happening, thankfully I have received several PMs from others saying they appreciate the time taken so I will continue to do it.

We have the G+G and RK/ownership threads which are far better places to discuss the positives and negatives of the Glazers versus alternate ownership options. No one is stopping that discussion from happening.
 
Why dont you tell us?

OK then.

Eaststand was making wild accusastions about MUST, and tried to get into a debate with them about the finances at United.

He was sysetmatically destroyed by Andersred and several other very knowledgeable posters.

In the end he actually had to completely backtrack and admit that what MUST were saying was correct.

Not however, before he went around telling everyone he had 10 queistions for Andersred. They begged and begged him to post the questions. He kept saying "I WILL.. I WILL"

Then one day out the blue he came up with question 1 which he wasnted answering. His question got answered, and he didnt like what he read.

When they asked him for the other 9 his response was "I cant be bothered" after spending weeks teling everyone how his 10 questions would lift the lid on the MUST lies and prove that what he was saying all along was true, the club wasnt under any threat from the Glazers.

So when he was asked to give those questions, and prove beyond all doubt that MUST were lying and GLazers were great, guess what he did.. He turned around and said he agreed the Glazers had put United in peril and ran off with his tail between his legs.

Now hes back again peddling his pro Glazer agenda, and theres something definitely suspicious about him, because over on RI one of the moderators did an IP check, and asked him did he want her to reveal where the IP suggested he was posting from. He asked her not to tell everyone...

I personally dont think he does work for MUFC. I have a suspicion he works for someone like JP Morgan, who have a very very lucrative vested interest in United, and stand to make a lot of money from the debts.
 
fcuk me... you think JP Morgan have time to employ someone to post on the cafe in the hope that he may sway a few posters?

As for the other stuff, I don't know anything about GCHQ or Eastlad but they don't sound like the same person, based on what I'e seen in this thread. Did this eastlad concentrate on the finance side of things (somewhat obsessively) like GCHQ does? Could you put up a few of his post so we can compare them...
 
You think JP Morgan are paying someone to go around on internet boards and help explain the finances in a manner they prefer?

Damn you Mehro, although I think I said it better :angel:
 
If it were the case, I doubt it would be his sole employment. Both the club and JP Morgan have sizeable PR teams, who's job it is to look after exactly this sort of thing.

There are people in my own company who go on various industry related forums specifically to ensure that our voice is heard and our interests promoted. But its far from their only role in the company.

Plenty of us find lots of time to post on the forum, if it was actually a legitimate part of your job, how much more time would you find?
 
If it were the case, I doubt it would be his sole employment. Both the club and JP Morgan have sizeable Page Ranking teams, who's job it is to look after exactly this sort of thing.

There are people in my own company who go on various industry related forums specifically to ensure that our voice is heard and our interests promoted. But its far from their only role in the company.

Plenty of us find lots of time to post on the forum, if it was actually a legitimate part of your job, how much more time would you find?

Who do you work for?
 
Are you a mod?

I'm not providing proof to any old Tom Dick or Harry in here, there's some nutters around, y'know!

Right thats it, you're banned...

On a side note I've decided to reinstate your membership...
 
I cant speak for others but I have said time and time again that in this thread I prefer to discuss only our financial situation and analyse the results released by the club in the bond prospectus and then the quarterlies.
Several posters have made it clear that they dont feel that is worthwhile (for obvious reasons) and have tried to stop that from happening, thankfully I have received several PMs from others saying they appreciate the time taken so I will continue to do it.

We have the G+G and RK/ownership threads which are far better places to discuss the positives and negatives of the Glazers versus alternate ownership options. No one is stopping that discussion from happening.

GCHQ has mentioned the Green and Gold protests numerous times in this thread. I thought it was appropriate to balance the argument out slightly as it was coming across that the only thing the fans are protesting about is the financial status of the Glazer family.
 
JP Morgan are paying for people to post on RedCafe? Do they get a shot at those billions in bonuses as well?


This is all getting crazy. Anyone who thinks they are at the frontline of the Anti-Glazer revolution because they are starting witch-hunts in a thread on a football forum is insane.
 
Anyone who thinks they are at the frontline of the Anti-Glazer revolution because they are starting witch-hunts in a thread on a football forum is insane.

So, we're all agreed then? No more of this anti-glazer talk!

I just saw a pretty butterfly, it made me feel happy. Hey everybody, tell me about nice things you've seen that made you feel happy! After that we can all sing a song.
 
So, we're all agreed then? No more of this anti-glazer talk!

I just saw a pretty butterfly, it made me feel happy. Hey everybody, tell me about nice things you've seen that made you feel happy! After that we can all sing a song.

2 billion Top Red marks to you. When Keith Harris takes over you'll sit at his right hand thanks to your amazing arguments in a thread on RedCafe. You really showed those plants from JP Morgan a thing or two.
 
Do I get to keep my post count? My post count is very important to me!

Oh go on then.... :rolleyes: Give em an inch and they take a mile.

On one condition... that you continue to love united and hate glazer, in that order...
 
2 billion Top Red marks to you. When Keith Harris takes over you'll sit at his right hand thanks to your amazing arguments in a thread on RedCafe. You really showed those plants from JP Morgan a thing or two.

It's odd that you thin in terms of people doing this for personal gain, I just don't get that.
I, along with most people in here I think (whatever their specific opinions on the situation) are debating this because we want what is best for the club and its fans.
I don't really know where you're coming from seeing it as some kind of personal popularity contest.
 
GCHQ has mentioned the Green and Gold protests numerous times in this thread. I thought it was appropriate to balance the argument out slightly as it was coming across that the only thing the fans are protesting about is the financial status of the Glazer family.

I cant speak for GCHQ but it is worth remembering that he was only promoted from the newbies last week and has suffered a constant barrage of accusations and petty abuse since then. So I can understand if he got frustrated and made a few misplaced comments.

I totally agree that there are things that the fans should protest about but it is my opinion that the negatives of the business side are grossly exagerated. I bumped this thread with the intention of explaining this in more detail.
I have no issue with anyone sticking up for the rights of the fans as long as it is based on real problems (ticketing, ACS etc) and not propoganda.
 
OK then.

Eaststand was making wild accusastions about MUST, and tried to get into a debate with them about the finances at United.

He was sysetmatically destroyed by Andersred and several other very knowledgeable posters.

In the end he actually had to completely backtrack and admit that what MUST were saying was correct.

Not however, before he went around telling everyone he had 10 queistions for Andersred. They begged and begged him to post the questions. He kept saying "I WILL.. I WILL"

Then one day out the blue he came up with question 1 which he wasnted answering. His question got answered, and he didnt like what he read.

When they asked him for the other 9 his response was "I cant be bothered" after spending weeks teling everyone how his 10 questions would lift the lid on the MUST lies and prove that what he was saying all along was true, the club wasnt under any threat from the Glazers.

So when he was asked to give those questions, and prove beyond all doubt that MUST were lying and GLazers were great, guess what he did.. He turned around and said he agreed the Glazers had put United in peril and ran off with his tail between his legs.

Now hes back again peddling his pro Glazer agenda, and theres something definitely suspicious about him, because over on RI one of the moderators did an IP check, and asked him did he want her to reveal where the IP suggested he was posting from. He asked her not to tell everyone...

I personally dont think he does work for MUFC. I have a suspicion he works for someone like JP Morgan, who have a very very lucrative vested interest in United, and stand to make a lot of money from the debts.

Right fred, given that your reporting of facts is a bit iffy, please prove the above and show us the link with gchq.
 
It's odd that you thin in terms of people doing this for personal gain, I just don't get that.
I, along with most people in here I think (whatever their specific opinions on the situation) are debating this because we want what is best for the club and its fans.
I don't really know where you're coming from seeing it as some kind of personal popularity contest.

It stops being "debate" when people resort to accusing posters to prove who they work for. If its a proper debate, and the facts are on your side, then your argument should stand for itself.

You've not thrown your toys out of the pram like Crerand Legend yesterday, far from it, but this "Don't listen to him, he must work for JP Morgan!" stuff is weirding me out. Never seen the like of it on RedCafe.
 
Will do. Do I need to re-take the oath?

I assumed you had... tempted to give you an infraction.

Maybe I'll pass you're details onto the authorities so they can come to your house in the night and rape you. I'm watching you...
 
Right, back on topic (sort of)... Fred, time to post your GCHQ expose...
 
Well that has been the main problem for a while in this thread - certain people are doing whatever they can to make sure there is no meaningful debate about our finances.

Personally, I encourage all debate and discussion about our club and it is shame that others dont want that to happen.

Well, I don't think GCHQ is helping things with some rather egotistical comments. And really, if he was being paid to make a case for Glazer by JP Morgan (!) he'd surely need to be a lot less antagonistic in his manner.

But again, it should be a fair debate where people can put forward their opinion, and when somebody is getting so wound up about it that they're throwing around conspiracy theories then they really need to walk away from the Internet for a while.
 
Right fred, given that your reporting of facts is a bit iffy, please prove the above and show us the link with gchq.

I would prefer he didnt or start a new thread in the General about it - that is the best place for witch hunts!

I dont see the big problem with someone posting on another forum anyway.
 
I would prefer he didnt or start a new thread in the General about it - that is the best place for witch hunts!

I dont see the big problem with someone posting on another forum anyway.

Although if he really has information discrediting GCHQ I'd argue that it would be relevant to this thread and the others... don't hold your breath though.
 
It stops being "debate" when people resort to accusing posters to prove who they work for. If its a proper debate, and the facts are on your side, then your argument should stand for itself.

You've not thrown your toys out of the pram like Crerand Legend yesterday, far from it, but this "Don't listen to him, he must work for JP Morgan!" stuff is weirding me out. Never seen the like of it on RedCafe.
Quite.....who a poster may work for is irrelevant.

It's what they say that matters.
 
I cant speak for GCHQ but it is worth remembering that he was only promoted from the newbies last week and has suffered a constant barrage of accusations and petty abuse since then. So I can understand if he got frustrated and made a few misplaced comments.

This is the kind of comment I was referring to:

GCHQ said:
Well I can assure you that I certainly do not work for United. I think it really does say all we need to know about the lunatics within the anti-Glazer movement that just because I have the nerve to put forward an alternative, and accurate as it happens, point of view on the club's financial position I for some reason need to prove who I work for.

It's totally absurd, which is exactly how I would describe MUST and the G&G campaign.*

Lets assume that what what GCHQ is saying about the clubs finances in this thread is completely accurate. If he shares some of the same reservations about the ownership of the club why does he find the protests absurd? And what else does he propose the fans do? Sit back and let the Glazers fleece us?

I know you'd prefer this thread to focus solely on the Glazers finances but that's not what is happening so I thought I'd address it.
 
Well perhaps evidence of his identity should be put on the table so we can make our own decisions. If no such evidence exists people should shush. That way we can move on.
 
It is, unless they are deliberately hiding their motives for posting what they post. In my book, lying about something like that detracts a whole lot of credibility from anything posted.

Anyone who has an interest in the price of the bonds going up or down has a motive.
 
I see where you're coming from but surely we are only interested in whether their arguements and points are valid or not.

Well, given the complex nature of some of the financial discussions, it would be easy to slip in some unverifiable lies which would be taken on trust, at least by some if not all.

Given this, I think it's important to know that everybody is at least being truthful in the facts they present and thier interpretation of them.
 
Well, given the complex nature of some of the financial discussions, it would be easy to slip in some unverifiable lies which would be taken on trust, at least by some if not all.

Given this, I think it's important to know that everybody is at least being truthful in the facts they present and thier interpretation of them.
You have a good point there.

Then again every poster is able to slip in unverifiable lies aren't they.
 
Although if he really has information discrediting GCHQ I'd argue that it would be relevant to this thread and the others... don't hold your breath though.

Well Fred has already presented his case - that GCHQ is EastStand from another forum and got banned from there after being accused of working for the club.
Even if all that was all true (and I have no idea so dont want to comment), I dont actually see what the problem is.

Personally, I dont think who you work for is of much relevance, I have been asked to prove my credentials but I refuse to do so because I feel it is a pointless exercise. I prefer to let my posts speak for themselves.



Lets assume that what what GCHQ is saying about the clubs finances in this thread is completely accurate. If he shares some of the same reservations about the ownership of the club why does he find the protests absurd? And what else does he propose the fans do? Sit back and let the Glazers fleece us?

I know you'd prefer this thread to focus solely on the Glazers finances but that's not what is happening so I thought I'd address it.

Well you will have to ask GCHQ about that as I cant answer on his behalf.

Personally, I have a problem with people who are protesting based on fear of the club going bust or there being no cash available for transfers etc. I believe this kind of feeling is based on misinformation and propoganda from the media and supporter groups.

If you go and look at the G+G thread, you will actually see that people who are also very clearly antiGlazer are also slagging off the campaign. While I choose not to personally participate, I have defended the campaign several times from the perspective of someone who supports the message of fan unity and also improvement in atmosphere.

BTW if you didnt like GCHQ's off the cuff comment about MUST and the campaign, you might like to see what Weaste has to say about them:
https://www.redcafe.net/f8/time-sor...-but-important-298201/index9.html#post8139202
 
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