How can I or anybody else counter them when I could never get a straight forward answer I asked time and time again. All I got was a long winded spiel which when you studied it was basically high finance waffle but enough to make himself look good exactly the way politicans answer their awkward questions. Again he is entitled to his opinon and alot of the exchanges I enjoyed, that is what these forums are for aint it
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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How can I or anybody else counter them when I could never get a straight forward answer I asked time and time again. All I got was a long winded spiel which when you studied it was basically high finance waffle but enough to make himself look good exactly the way politicans answer their awkward questions. Again he is entitled to his opinon and alot of the exchanges I enjoyed, that is what these forums are for aint it
If they had accepted a right to reply what would you say about that reply?
Which is why we need a knowledgeable poster to counter him on here to make this thread at all valuable.
Indeed, to tell you the truth it sounds like a pointless programme anyway I wont be watching it, just another MUST agenda driven documentary looking at worse case scenarios downgrading of figures and basing all their 'findings' on what the anti glazerists want to hear.....dont expect any neutral reporting whatsoever on any of the issues hence as you say why anything they say will be taken with a pinch of salt by the people who are capable of thinking for themselves….most people know what Panaromas like anyway to be honest, just sensationalist bollox if truth be told.
But of course i must be careful what i say on here now because apparently Ralphie and his dear old friends at MUST (the organisation that so desperately wants whats best for all us United fans so were told) are gazing a watchful eye over redcafe and will threaten legal action again anyone who doesn’t blindly follow their anti glazer campaign thats full of half truths and baseless factually proven idiotic claims...(these are after all the people who told us all so very clearly how Glazer would be out within 3 years back in 05
) that alone shows you just how amateurish an organisation this is, full of planks who hold no credibility whatsoever anymore.It alslo shows you how desperate MUST really are these days, all their early door claims have failed to come to fruition and now their threatening legal action on random posters on websites who don’t fold to their propaganda and have the audactiy to question their motives, this amazing from a CHARITY lets remember who are supposedly looking out for Manchester United fans best interests! its just fecking laughable, not only are they a bunch of amateurish useless no nothings but their a bunch of hypocrites to boot.
Sue me!
Depends what they said...
But given they refuse to admit or deny anything, then we can only draw our own conclusions why they would wish to remain quiet.
Yes, I love you all - but I'm not blind to your faults (see gen passim). I'm not gonna sue you either.Come on peter - this is as good as it gets, you wouldnt be here if it wasnt
Indeed, to tell you the truth it sounds like a pointless programme anyway I wont be watching it, just another MUST agenda driven documentary looking at worse case scenarios downgrading of figures and basing all their 'findings' on what the anti glazerists want to hear.....dont expect any neutral reporting whatsoever on any of the issues hence as you say why anything they say will be taken with a pinch of salt by the people who are capable of thinking for themselves….most people know what Panaromas like anyway to be honest, just sensationalist bollox if truth be told.
But of course i must be careful what i say on here now because apparently Ralphie and his dear old friends at MUST (the organisation that so desperately wants whats best for all us United fans so were told) are gazing a watchful eye over redcafe and will threaten legal action again anyone who doesn’t blindly follow their anti glazer campaign thats full of half truths and baseless factually proven idiotic claims...(these are after all the people who told us all so very clearly how Glazer would be out within 3 years back in 05
It alslo shows you how desperate MUST really are these days, all their early door claims have failed to come to fruition and now their threatening legal action on random posters on websites who don’t fold to their propaganda and have the audactiy to question their motives, this amazing from a CHARITY lets remember who are supposedly looking out for Manchester United fans best interests! its just fecking laughable, not only are they a bunch of amateurish useless no nothings but their a bunch of hypocrites to boot.
Sue me!
Sue you ?
Not at all..
I read that load of bitter garbage and I pity you....
That is of course assuming that what he is saying isnt just glorified waffle full of bullshit.
As Gordon Brown found out in the election, glorified waffle can easily be undone if you ask the right questions.
And for the record this thread is very very valuable. I should imagine countless people on here have gained access to accounts of United, that they wouldnt have seen before.
Dear me.
The level of paranoia that consumes some of you is absolutely extraordinary. First I was supposed to be a United employee, then a personal employee of the Glazer family and now I've moved on to working for good old JP Morgan. And didn't someone throw in to the equation that I was also working for some of the bond holders to make sure the market price of the bonds didn't fall?
No offence to the admin of this site, but do people really genuinely think the above organisations would employ people to put forward their side of the argument on Red Cafe, a football internet forum?
I mean just who the feck exactly am I supposed to be persuading here? How many people will have actually read through this thread in any detail? 100 at most? And how many of those people will have already made up their mind about the financial position of the club before entering this thread? 80-90?
I mean ffs, if they won't even believe Sir Alex Ferguson, arguably the club's greatest ever servant, then what fecking chance would I have eh?
This whole thing is so utterly crazy that I've really lost the will to actually debate in this thread any longer. It's totally pointless.
The select bunch of feckwits on here (and let's be honest that is precisely what you are) need to just take a little step back and actually think through some of the things that you've accused me of.
The level of paranoia that consumes some of you is absolutely extraordinary. First I was supposed to be a United employee, then a personal employee of the Glazer family and now I've moved on to working for good old JP Morgan. And didn't someone throw in to the equation that I was also working for some of the bond holders to make sure the market price of the bonds didn't fall?
No offence to the admin of this site, but do people really genuinely think the above organisations would employ people to put forward their side of the argument on Red Cafe, a football internet forum?
I mean just who the feck exactly am I supposed to be persuading here? How many people will have actually read through this thread in any detail? 100 at most? And how many of those people will have already made up their mind about the financial position of the club before entering this thread? 80-90?
I mean ffs, if they won't even believe Sir Alex Ferguson, arguably the club's greatest ever servant, then what fecking chance would I have eh?
This whole thing is so utterly crazy that I've really lost the will to actually debate in this thread any longer. It's totally pointless.
The select bunch of feckwits on here (and let's be honest that is precisely what you are) need to just take a little step back and actually think through some of the things that you've accused me of.
Whats absolutely hilarious about all this is the sheer hypocrisy of people like Allforone..
They accuse MUST of being totally one sided, and unable to see past their own agenda.
Then they openly admit they'll never listen to a thing MUST say...
What if MUST happened to be right on some of those points.. You are going to totally ignore them because its MUST saying it. If it were anyone else you'd take notice, but as its MUST then it has to be bullshit.
As many know, I am not the biggest fan of MUST myself, and some of the things they come out with are outrageous ( even by my standards ) but ultimately, if I think they may have a point then I go ahead and look further.
The point is some people are accusing MUST of being one sided and blinkered, and those people are that Anti MUST they themselves have lost all clarity of what its all about.
They accuse MUST of being totally one sided, and unable to see past their own agenda.
Then they openly admit they'll never listen to a thing MUST say...
What if MUST happened to be right on some of those points.. You are going to totally ignore them because its MUST saying it. If it were anyone else you'd take notice, but as its MUST then it has to be bullshit.
As many know, I am not the biggest fan of MUST myself, and some of the things they come out with are outrageous ( even by my standards ) but ultimately, if I think they may have a point then I go ahead and look further.
The point is some people are accusing MUST of being one sided and blinkered, and those people are that Anti MUST they themselves have lost all clarity of what its all about.
It's not assuming anything. Were there an informed poster to counter him then that would probably be exposed. What I do know is that he and roodboy have a better grasp of the figures and subject matter than anyone on here and at the moment we are getting only one reasonable interpretation of the figures.
Oh the irony of that coming from you Fred...it would be lost on mere mortals!I bet you’ve been wetting your knickers all day waiting for Panorama so you can come on redcafe and tell us all how right you were! look everyone Panorama has run a story telling everyone how fecked were are, ignore the fact it was reported by someone whos about as neutral on the issue as a Scouser commenting on Gary Nevilles footballing ability its all true i tell you!
When will you realise Fred, some people cant and wont be fooled into blindly following some agenda spun propaganda spewing from one sided parties, i think thats what angers you so much and why you get so heated on here, that some people just wont accept everything you say as gospel and be done with it.
This thread was pretty informative until it got completely derailed by a ridiculous witch hunt.
Actually dont bother responding..
That post alone tells me all I need to know
That post alone tells me all I need to know
If you cry wolf too many times that's what you get.
As I said, he has already been exposed over on Red Issue.
Come the day of the revolution brother - up against the wall, bop-bop-bop.
I for one hope you keep posting, if as you say you are being falsely accused then surely by stopping to post it looks like you are admitting it. Keep posting it is what this forum is for, we will keep you occupied
Oh Fred you are a hoot, of course yet again your totally missing the point and running away on yet another one of your rantish crusades.Listen and take this in please, ive listened to MUST for years hence why no longer will i take anything they say with any respect whatever, ive listened to them make sensationalist claim after sensationalist claim and be proven to be talking out of their proverbials time and time again, they’ve lost all and any credibility they once had to me because of the shit they’ve spouted over the years, how many times do a bunch of feckwits have to get proven to be talking absolute shite before you realise they haven’t got a scooby doo Fred? this is an organisation whos tried to spin everything on its head in some desperate attempt to gain appeal toward their anti glazer campaign, its reaching ridiculous levels now as we even have plonkers threatening law suits against posters on random bloody internet forums all because they have the temerity to question MUSTs motives! This isn’t a charity representing and wanting the best for United fans at all, it’s a bunch of power driven highly self loving opinionated wankers demanding everyone blindly agree with anything and everything they say…well feck that.
MUST are a laughing stock and a desperate one at that, their years of getting everything wrong is why i no longer listen to them nor take anything they say seriously Fred, history shows they have a long drawn out time line of plain getting it wrong.
Anyway enjoy Panorama Fred, itll be right up your alley, plenty of doommongery and negative agenda driven spin on ridiculously under researched topics, in fact you could have probably carried out the report yourself, thats how neutral the whole thing is....in fairness id probably give it more respect had it been reported by you in an odd sense, at least you dont and wouldn’t pretend to be anything but horrendously one sided about your findings and feelings.
Indeed, to tell you the truth it sounds like a pointless programme anyway I wont be watching it, just another MUST agenda driven documentary looking at worse case scenarios downgrading of figures and basing all their 'findings' on what the anti glazerists want to hear.....dont expect any neutral reporting whatsoever on any of the issues hence as you say why anything they say will be taken with a pinch of salt by the people who are capable of thinking for themselves….most people know what Panaromas like anyway to be honest, just sensationalist bollox if truth be told.
But of course i must be careful what i say on here now because apparently Ralphie and his dear old friends at MUST (the organisation that so desperately wants whats best for all us United fans so were told) are gazing a watchful eye over redcafe and will threaten legal action again anyone who doesn’t blindly follow their anti glazer campaign thats full of half truths and baseless factually proven idiotic claims...(these are after all the people who told us all so very clearly how Glazer would be out within 3 years back in 05
It alslo shows you how desperate MUST really are these days, all their early door claims have failed to come to fruition and now their threatening legal action on random posters on websites who don’t fold to their propaganda and have the audactiy to question their motives, this amazing from a CHARITY lets remember who are supposedly looking out for Manchester United fans best interests! its just fecking laughable, not only are they a bunch of amateurish useless no nothings but their a bunch of hypocrites to boot.
Sue me!
And you're the guy who told us that Anderson would be king of the United midfield!
And you're the guy who told us that Anderson would be king of the United midfield!
Jeepers I forgot for a while we are actually a football team, lovely to get back to that old footie talk
And you're the guy who told us that Anderson would be king of the United midfield!
He will be in years to come, hence the term 'future'....
He will be in years to come, hence the term 'future'....
surely then it should read 'long live the prince' ?
GCHQ good you are back - now can you point me to that reference in the Bond Prospectus - I have posted the question a few times now.
Bloody semantics i tell ya!
He will be in years to come, hence the term 'future'....
Absolutely.
See, now there speaks an intelligent albeit semi drunk man.
Nothing semi about me whatsoever.
Flaccid all the way mate.
Wonderfully patronising as ever gchq.
You fail to read things properly yet seem to force yourself to reply to lesser beings. But only when it suits. When it doesn't suit, you deflect the issue, change the subject or throw things in to deceive.
Why do YOU think that the Glazers chose to give no reply?
I mentioned about the bonds and simply stated, not accused, stated that someone would be keen to give a certain side of the story vehemently enough to influence bond prices. £44.2m a year for 7 years on £500m of bonds. If you can get that £500m for £400m, you'd give it a shot, because any penny you get off is pure profit with the £500m due back to you in 2017. So that's divis from the bonds each year plus a profit of £500m less whatever you managed to pay for them - easily worth it.
Similarly you'd be looking to talk the club finances up if you were after offloading them. If you can discredit MUST as scaremongers, then it's a big step towards securing the value of your bonds.
Why did the FA decline to be interviewed for Panorama?
Why did the Premier League decline to be interviewed?
Perhaps because they'd have to admit that the Glazers were deemed fit and proper people and didn't realise that they'd borrowed the initial £300m and that the whole of the takeover was done using borrowed money.
Well I just hope you aren't an advisor to any people needing financial advice.
fecking hell, honestly despite the fact that the clubs finances mean we still exist it certainly isn't a good state of affairs. Basically your just a bit of an idiot really who doesn't seem to get the problem with debt...Dangerous attitude.
He is not an idiot, mate. He is singing for his supper.
these are after all the people who told us all so very clearly how Glazer would be out within 3 years back in 05
Looks like you two are on a collision course... after all didn't Fergie say that Danny Welbeck would go to the World Cup, and he'd never sell Ronaldo to Madrid?
Allforone's made it clear that if you make a prediction and get it wrong you can never again be listened to, and shuold instead be ridiculed.
And yet GCHQ thinks Fergie is infallible and cannot be questioned. Two very extreme opposite points of view there....
... FIGHT!!!!
Wait a minute, lets just clarify what you are saying here - are you suggesting that negative propoganda from MUST has an affect on the price of Manchester United bonds? Seriously?
Wait a minute, lets just clarify what you are saying here - are you suggesting that negative propoganda from MUST has an affect on the price of Manchester United bonds? Seriously?
I'm saying that if MUST are discredited and the G&G campaign dies then people will start to believe that the bonds make for a sounder investment.
But hey, the season tickets will all sell and everything will be fine.
The Glazers have won us three titles after all.
That's a strange angle he's taking on this. Everybody knows the PIKs are the big drain on Red Football, and things would look a lot more solid if they paid them off ASAP. Most people have been wondering why they're taking their time doing it.
When people are complaining about United debts they always include the PIKs, but now he wants that debt to be ignored?
the andersred blog: An(other) open letter to David Gill
When people are complaining about United debts they always include the PIKs, but now he wants that debt to be ignored?
the andersred blog: An(other) open letter to David Gill
It is strange... if you're wilfully ignoring the whole point.
The whole point of the revelations about the parlous state of the Glazers other finances is that there is no money anywhere else to pay off their personal PIK debts, so it pretty much guarantees that money will leave United for this purpose.
Gill has publicly stated that the PIKs are the Glazers' business and nothing to do with United. Andersred is asking if this remains the case.
Pretty straight forward really.
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