So what have we agreed on?
Crerand and Cider are having a lovers tiff in public
Crerand and Cider are having a lovers tiff in public
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
- Thread starter sammsky1
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Yep, its at my company. I think its just for employees.
Will let you know more, if there is anything interesting to report, on Thursday.
So what have we agreed on?
Crerand and Cider are having a lovers tiff in public
Tell Crerand i'm not talking to him
Interesting Gaffs, is Jim O'Neill speaking?
You've also said you cant see feck all wrong with having the Glazers as owners.
No. I dont work for GS. Im at a law firm.
Nobody's ever claimed that the Glazers are perfect owners - personally i doubt there can be such a thing - we've simply pointed out that they're not the mephistophelian arch-fiends that those leading the hate-campaign against them will have you believe.
Despite the countless prophecies of doom surrounding the club, it's been over five years since the Glazer takeover, and three Premier League titles and two Champions League finals later the cub's still doing alright for itself; the squad's arguabaly in better shape than it was pre Glazer takeover, and SAF's just cracking on as usual working the team towards bringing home the trophies. For a club that's apparently on it's knees, we certainly do a fair old job of standing tall amongst the other big boys.
You'll no doubt continue your moaning for years and years to come though; as Fergie says; some fans are just never happy...
SAF said:
But United will just carry on and you'll just carry on moaning about it. Meh, shit happens.
How's watching every match on a shitty stream going for you, fred?
Indeed, cider. The problem with people like fred is that he chooses not to see the difference between someone saying "These guys aren't as bad as they are made out to be" and saying "There's feck all wrong with them".
We're all aware of the negatives that the Glazers have brought with them. Some people cannot see beyond these negatives and so the situation remains permanently negative to them whilst some of us look for the positives in our overall situation in order to see if the net balance is negative or positive.
I think you're right when you say that there's no such things as the "ideal owner". I have been thinking about all the various ownership methods for months now and there are negatives to all of them, as far as I can see.
All things considered though, we could do better than the Glazers but we could also do a lot worse.
As the Glazers are what we have though, I would have thought the best thing a fan can do is to try to make the best of the situation. Given all the success we've achieved over the last few years, this hasn't been a particularly hard thing to do, I would have thought.
We're all aware of the negatives that the Glazers have brought with them. Some people cannot see beyond these negatives and so the situation remains permanently negative to them whilst some of us look for the positives in our overall situation in order to see if the net balance is negative or positive.
I think you're right when you say that there's no such things as the "ideal owner". I have been thinking about all the various ownership methods for months now and there are negatives to all of them, as far as I can see.
All things considered though, we could do better than the Glazers but we could also do a lot worse.
As the Glazers are what we have though, I would have thought the best thing a fan can do is to try to make the best of the situation. Given all the success we've achieved over the last few years, this hasn't been a particularly hard thing to do, I would have thought.
Rawlinson?
No he hasn't. That's the second time today you've claimed someone has said something they haven't.
Positively Pétainian.
Yeah, because you're a loyal supporter who attends every match aren't you ciderman?
Like that, Pétainian
The financial results for the full year ending June 30 2010 will be announced this Friday 08 October at 11.00am BST.
Woohoooooo! Go Glazer! Go Glazer! Go Glazer!
Well that'll give us something to look forward to at the weekend since there's no bloody football on
Hope you've got your calculator and pencils at the ready, GCHQ!
Should be an interesting weekend.
What time on Friday will they be released?
erm... 11.00 BST cider (you must have read that because you quoted GCHQ's post!)
That's about 11 in the morning, mate.
Woohoooooo! Go Glazer! Go Glazer! Go Glazer!
Well that'll give us something to look forward to at the weekend since there's no bloody football on
Hope you've got your calculator and pencils at the ready, GCHQ!
I certainly have Ciderman. Prepare for e-War live on RedCafe.net.
Man the battlestations, lads!
Yup, obviously by far and away the most interesting detail will be whether or not the exceptional dividend has been transferred to RFJV Ltd to repay part of the PIK debt. The consensus is that this didn't occur before the end of the financial year (June 30 2010) but the post balance sheet notes, covering the period from July 01 up to the announcement on Friday, will reveal whether or not it occured between then and now. My hunch is that the dividend hasn't yet been transferred to repay part of the PIK debt as I believe such a high profile (in terms of the media) transaction would have leaked out into the public domain soon after it was processed. Having said that the news about the Glazers 20% PIK purchase in 2008 was only revealed a few weeks ago so you certainly wouldn't rule anything out.
As for the actual results they won't really be that interesting in the sense that we already have a very good idea of what the numbers will be thanks to the third quarter and nine month results that were announced back at the end of May.
I'm expecting EBITDA to be c.£95m with turnover up very slightly to £280m-£285m. Cash reserves will be c.£160m. Those estimates are pretty much consistent with JP Morgan's projections back in March.
We know there is going to be a significant accounting loss for the full year period. After all there was a £66m accounting loss in the nine months to March 31st. Just like back then it's absolutely essential that people understand that included within that ''loss'' will be c.£65m of irrelevant non-cash expenses (this doesn't include c.£40m of amortisation of players' registrations and c.£9m of depreciation of fixed assets, which are also non-cash expenses but are relevant) as well as c.£40m of exceptional refinancing costs. I'm expecting an accounting loss of £80m for the full year to June 30 2010 but when you put it into its correct context the true situation is vastly different to what you'd initially gather from the headline accounting loss.
The majority of the media, of course, will not put the accounting loss into its correct context and this will undoubtedly lead to much misguided thinking amongst the Manchester United supporter base (as well as the general public) about both the club's financial situation/performance and the Glazers.
I take it that you already have seen the report and now I expect it to be exactly as you predict. You hacking into the Glazer's computer or what
Fred, I've never said that the club has sold out of season tickets. The latest figure we know of was 51,800 sold out of 54,000 available on September 1st. The latest accounts/conference call should tell us what the updated total is as well as how seasonal executive/hospitality sales have gone.
It's worth pointing out that all tickets have been sold for the first five home games of the season.
What will be the consequences of the accounting losses? In which position will that put us? And what about cash for players or whatever?
I'm a lawyer, not an accountant
Total propaganda crap!!in case you all forgot-
The Glazer family's buy-out of United in 2006 imposed £716m worth of debt on the club, and the annual cost of servicing this debt is £67m. The club supposedly the richest in Britain has spent £325m on debt interest since 2006.
What will be the consequences of the accounting losses? In which position will that put us? And what about cash for players or whatever?
I'm a lawyer, not an accountant
There won't be any negative consequences from the accounting ''loss'' because it's an irrelevant and meaningless loss due to the non-cash expenses/exceptional refinancing costs which I alluded to in my post.
We therefore remain in a very strong financial position with very considerable sums of cash available for capital investment in players and facilities (e.g. £12m on Carrington facelift).
He, he, this will be fun. Watch the Glazers take out about £79.9M to pay the PIK down. Shit storm on the starboard bow.
I think you'll have to wait a few months yet. Hopefully at a time when first team results have improved (not that we've done badly so far).
in case you all forgot-
The Glazer family's buy-out of United in 2006 imposed £716m worth of debt on the club, and the annual cost of servicing this debt is £67m. The club supposedly the richest in Britain has spent £325m on debt interest since 2006.
You are right forget all this accountancy spin, the debt, the ACS, increased ticket prices, unable to compete in the transfer market are the bottom line of Glazer ownership
in case you all forgot-
The Glazer family's buy-out of United in 2006 imposed £716m worth of debt on the club, and the annual cost of servicing this debt is £67m. The club supposedly the richest in Britain has spent £325m on debt interest since 2006.
Total crap as usual Crusoe. The club has net debt of £350m. The annual cost of servicing its borrowings is £44m. The club has spent £160m on debt interest since 2006.
Those are the actual facts as detailed in the club's independently audited accounts.
I thought they had to 'fess up soon?
You seriously think that being well over £700m in debt puts us in a strong financial position? Capital investment for players? We are a joke in the transfer market even the dogs on the street know we cant compete. Carrington 12m facelift? They still have plans to sell it and lease it back. Behind every Glazer move their is a sinister motive, they are so crooked they can't even lie straight in their beds at night
They have to reveal on Friday whether or not the cash was taken out between the end of May up to October. If the cash hasn't yet been taken, which is my belief/hunch, then there obviously won't be any announcement until a later date. The first quarter 2010/11 results will be announced at the end of November. Second quarter at the end of February 2011 and so on.
Does anyone else get the impression that robertsoncrusoe's broken?
It is amazing what can be done with accounts, you know that these are not the true amounts. So why was circa £400 m in interest the accepted figure up until recently you changed it and who paid off over £300m of Glazer debt
Christ, did some of you forget GB's post from yesterday already?
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