Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

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crossy1686 said:
But that's no indication of how well he will do moving forward and I, like many others, don't see a world class talent in him, its just not there unfortunately. I'm not judging anyone on this season, just from what I've seen from them since they all got into the first team. I think Mainoo is the one that would be very hard to replace, Garnacho is if your scouts are doing their jobs.

With the exception of Yoro because I haven't seen enough, and maybe Mainoo, the other two probably wouldn't get into a top 4 side, or at least wouldn't start, and that's not a criticism, it's just where they're at development wise, they aren't even first teamers in our thrown together squad yet.

I honestly think the money will go towards a LWB anyway, that seems to be what Amorim wants and where we're weakest. Could solve a lot of our issues also.
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We obviously have different opinions on him so fair enough but again he’s only 20 I don’t think he could have done much more to prove himself. This is a league that a young Salah and De Bruyne couldn’t perform in, Amad had a failed loan at Rangers, Saliba had to be loaned out about 3 times before he was ready, Grealish was playing Championship football all at Garnacho’s age

Anyway game time I’ll be back when Garnacho bags :)
 
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Gandalf Greyhame said:
You keep saying he isn't worth 70m - firstly that's what we're asking, Napoli isn't going to match it, at best they'll come close. I'm the end, a player is always worth what a club plays for him, and there's enough posters who think he's worth more to make yours a subjective opinion. But let's say he's worth 50m, and we're making a 20m profit.

The cost of this 20m profit, in your cycle of buying and selling players, is giving sub par but developing youngsters 3 years of a lot of first team football. 3 years of promising and frustrating moments on the pitch that leads to a mid table finish, and a sale before that promise can have a chance to come good or be consistent.

You're trading any chance of success for money, because the moment a player comes close to getting good, you sell him for a profit. That's a selling club for you.
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I think most people think anything over £50m is probably good business for United. Most people rate Garnacho but it's only a few who seem to think he has a 'high ceiling' and keep throwing around names like Ronaldo when his numbers are mentioned. Most people see a decent player who will be lucky to emulate Nani one day in terms of ability and success.

I don't understand your point? If we sell him for £50m, we make £50m profit, not £20m. He's classed as home grown, it's 100% profit on the books. Genuine world class players aren't that inconsistent at any age. They're not effective in games some times but they aren't running down blind alleys, they aren't over complicating the final pass or not passing when the forward is open, they're not taking pot shots and not tracking back. This isn't inconsistency, it's habitual behaviour, it's basics.

If we had a genuine top talent we wouldn't even be having this discussion, we'd just know it. It would be clear to see.

The day we start signing players like Jude Bellingham from Birmingham and telling him we'll let him go to Madrid in 3 seasons, we'll give him guaranteed game time and a buyout clause to make it easy for him to leave is the day we become a selling club. Allowing Sancho to sleep in late and miss meetings choosing to ignore that behaviour because we plan on selling him in a season anyway is the day we become a selling club. Selling Garnacho for £70m is just good business.
 
Castia said:
We obviously have different opinions on him so fair enough but again he’s only 20 I don’t think he could have done much more to prove himself. He’s miles ahead at his age then most attackers playing for top 4 sides by the way.
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Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying and my stance is that unless Napoli find £70m they can whistle. I'd rather keep him for 3 years and see how he develops. Worst case he doesn't kick on and we can hopefully get £30m for him anyway at that point.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
You're talking amortized costs for this year, we still pay the whole amount over time, and that has its own consequences, no? That's how are still stuck with a failed 60m bet, Casemiro, as an unsellable asset on massive wages.
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I wouldn’t be buying anyone over 25.
 
Rojofiam said:
That's exactly what I'm saying. We wouldn't be selling an irreplaceable player.
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Sorry misunderstood what you were trying say. Yes, agree, I am 100% sure wile will get a better player as a replacement from outside. Even, some in the youth are already technically better at the same age like Ibragimov.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
If you think a handful of goals following a purple patch that tailed off is a good indicator of his total quality as a player then sure. The eye test tells you a hell of a lot more about where Garnacho is as a player.
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He ended last season with 9G/4A, Hojlund with 15G/2A, and Mount with 1G.

My eye test showed me a goal of the season, good initiative and creativity, often let down by raw decision making for the shot / killer pass that 19 year old wingers tend to improve over time.

Still a good bet. Man United get more value now by keeping Garnacho than by selling him for his market price or even a little above.
 
red_de_pologne said:
He literally said just yesterday :

"He's finding the best way to play in this system. He's improving during training. He started the last game. Let's see tomorrow. I think he CHANGED the way he sees himself."

It's not a case of selling to buy a better suited player, it's a case of just selling whatever we can to comply with PSR.
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What is Amorim going to say? He's is not going to say he is a poor for my system, is he? Amorim has to work with the best he has right now.

It is both a PSR issue and a case of finding someone who better fits the system. If Garnacho was a perfect fit, then there would be no discussion about a transfer.
 
OleGunnar20 said:
Very surprised at that. I remember him looking brilliant for a spell there, though I think Jiminez has taken the starting spot? I don't watch Fulham outside of the odd highlights so have no idea what the situation is there.
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He looks physical but scored 3 goals in 20 games this season

40m is the starting price for any half decent players nowadays
 
Said it yesterday but I just don’t think he’s that good. He’s only hyped because of a couple of wonder goals. His footballing ability is not top level and that’s got nothing to do with tonight’s game
 
OverratedOpinion said:
If you think a handful of goals following a purple patch that tailed off is a good indicator of his total quality as a player then sure. The eye test tells you a hell of a lot more about where Garnacho is as a player.
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Yet that’s absolutely what people do when they talk about transfers here.
They focus on a players purple patch and then say « if we had proper scouts/structure/DOF/manager (chose your culprit), that’s the kind of signings we should have made! » then said player fades away and cycle starts again with a new player.

We should have absolutely bought Ferguson, kept Garner and Iqbal, sold Diallo, buy Mitoma and Denis Zakaria and so many more I’m forgetting
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
He ended last season with 9G/4A, Hojlund with 15G/2A, and Mount with 1G.

My eye test showed me a goal of the season, good initiative and creativity, often let down by raw decision making for the shot / killer pass that 19 year old wingers tend to improve over time.

Still a good bet. Man United get more value now by keeping Garnacho than by selling him for his market price or even a little above.
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He certainly has initiative which is a good thing. I think he also shows a real lack of understanding for the game.

If you lot think he's a 70m player god knows what you think Amad is worth.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Even then there's only a 50% chance of finding more value in selling Garnacho than keeping him. You're flipping a coin to see if you can get something more valuable than what you have in hand, and the cost of that toss is what you have in hand.
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Arbitrary and speculative percentages aside, this misses the rather significant point that perhaps Garnacho just doesn’t suit Amorim’s system as well as other players might. He’s not a 10 and he’s not a WB. Maybe he can be coached into being one of those, but maybe not.
 
Again what is this guys standout trait that has everyone convinced he’s a future star?
OverratedOpinion said:
He certainly has initiative which is a good thing. I think he also shows a real lack of understanding for the game.

If you lot think he's a 70m player god knows what you think Amad is worth.
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“Good creativity” even though Garnacho ranks essentially at the bottom for any sort of passing metrics. He had a decent run of assists when he played on the right because it forced him to use his strong foot to pass and not just cut in and shoot, but he was hardly creating chances for fun.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Debatable, but sure.

Even then there's only a 50% chance of finding more value in selling Garnacho than keeping him. You're flipping a coin to see if you can get something more valuable than what you have in hand, and the cost of that toss is what you have in hand.
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How valuable is Garnacho actually to this team?
 
Zumbi said:
Arbitrary and speculative percentages aside, this misses the rather significant point that perhaps Garnacho just doesn’t suit Amorim’s system as well as other players might. He’s not a 10 and he’s not a WB. Maybe he can be coached into being one of those, but maybe not.
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His only elite quality is progressing the ball forward quickly into space. He’s very poor with his back to goal centrally and in tight areas so I really struggle to understand how anyone thinks he can ever be a 10.
 
Mickeza said:
His only elite quality is progressing the ball forward quickly into space. He’s very poor with his back to goal centrally and in tight areas so I really struggle to understand how anyone thinks he can ever be a 10.
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He will only ever be a wide player. Hopefully a decent one he can be exciting. If he doesn't fit the system he's fecked it seems.
 
I don't think he is an intelligent player. Even when playing in a system that suited his strengths he makes the wrong decisions too often for the position we are in. We cannot afford any passengers in the squad. If we get the right offer I think we should take it and hopefully get someone more suited to the system.
 
Mickeza said:
His only elite quality is progressing the ball forward quickly into space. He’s very poor with his back to goal centrally and in tight areas so I really struggle to understand how anyone thinks he can ever be a 10.
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And that’s a quality I think you’d find from a huge number of players. It’s essentially just saying “he dribbles forward” but his take on #’s are horrid so he’s not doing a ton once he progresses it
 
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