[lsd]

It shows how bad our attacking options are that he’s our most dangerous

He isn't

 

[dubplate warrior]

Sure. I’d get rid of all our other attackers bar Diallo before Garnacho though!

I'd keep Zirkzee before him, otherwise the bar is lower than the deepest pits of hell.

 

[Ekeke]

With a return of how many goals. His shooting is poor, the eye test tells you so and so are his stats.
We'll be a better team if he doesn't shoot as often. He shoots more often than Salah with a return of 4 league goals. He's also missed 12 big chances this season.

We usually dont have any shots on target in the first half of a match and 9th most shots in the league overall. We have just 37 goals.

Point being the first step to score goals is to get a shot on target. If you dont even do that you arent going to score many goals. He does step A

Bruno and Amad have been better at step B - turn some of those shots on target into goals

He's our 3rd best with 4 league goals, at 20 years old

We just arent very good. So when you ask what hes good at, its important to realise where we are and compare him to our other players because thats the team hes playing for. His stats at Liverpool would be terrible but he'd probably have better stats. He's at United where despite his form being pretty average he's still our 3rd top scorer in the league and our best player at getting some efforts on goal. Again we're a team that will commonly go off at half time with 0 shots on target, so having a player who averages 1 or more shots on target certainly makes it more enjoyable to watch regardless of whether hes frustrating. Its better than someone else being there and having 0 shots on target and never looking like they might score. Thats the reality of Mount, Zirkzee, etc

 

[flameinthesun]

I'd keep Zirkzee before him, otherwise the bar is lower than the deepest pits of hell.

That's a big take. Zirkzee has shown absolutely nothing in the time that he has been here that he would even be better than Weghorst.

Garnacho is fine, keep him as a backup winger. Get a proper left winger in and Garnacho is a good bench option to have.

 

[ron86]

Nah, I'm sick of giving players that aren't good enough to play for Man United breaks. Give the fans a break, we're 13th and his lack of quality is one of the reasons why.

The fanbase really has this annoying sense of loyalty to mediocrity.

Exactly. For both players and previous managers there has been this blind faith that they will come good

 

[ron86]

Garnacho is in a similar position to Rasmus, in an ideal world these would be bench and cup options, not our main outlets. Here comes the issue, we have no money so the choices are persist with what's not working in the hope they come good or cash in. People seem to think we can buy forwards and keep him, we need money and tbf he probably won't want to go back to being a bench option. No one will give us profit on Rasmus however Garanacho will make us money to buy a starting forward

 

[Quagmaguire]

Good player and the only reason people want him out is PSR.

If PSR wasn't an issue im sure he is good enough for this squad. Good work rate and gets himself involved but his decision making is lacking, as seen throughout his career is amazing as an impact sub.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I'd keep Zirkzee before him, otherwise the bar is lower than the deepest pits of hell.

Blimey. Garnacho is the only player aside from Bruno and Amad who has shown he can create opportunities.

Obviously he’s inconsistent - but he’s also the only player in the squad aside from Amad than runs with the ball.

Zirkzee has shown glimpses of being able to control the ball and hold off the opposition. His touch is good - but it never leads to anything.

Zirkzee could be replaced cheaply, and frankly there are dozens and dozens of players that could do what he does, a player with Garnacho’s potential and spark would be very expensive.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Blimey. Garnacho is the only player aside from Bruno and Amad who has shown he can create opportunities.

Obviously he’s inconsistent - but he’s also the only player in the squad aside from Amad than runs with the ball.

Zirkzee has shown glimpses of being able to control the ball and hold off the opposition. His touch is good - but it never leads to anything.

Zirkzee could be replaced cheaply, and frankly there are dozens and dozens of players that could do what he does, a player with Garnacho’s potential and spark would be very expensive.

I like the idea of a two years and your out policy in general.

Garnacho is where attacks go to die. He can't even run with the ball because he's a terrible dribbler who can't beat a man. Wants to kick and run without the pace or explosiveness to beat a man.

He's shite.

 

[Jeffthered]

Blimey. Garnacho is the only player aside from Bruno and Amad who has shown he can create opportunities.

Obviously he’s inconsistent - but he’s also the only player in the squad aside from Amad than runs with the ball.

Zirkzee has shown glimpses of being able to control the ball and hold off the opposition. His touch is good - but it never leads to anything.

Zirkzee could be replaced cheaply, and frankly there are dozens and dozens of players that could do what he does, a player with Garnacho’s potential and spark would be very expensive.

Fair post. Garnacho has a lot to his game, he works hard, inspires those around him (which is key.. compare to Sancho, Rashford etc..) and is a constant threat. But, he isn't a goalscorer, rather a scorer of great goals. I would like to keep him, because such a talent and character is hard to replace.. however, if someone is offering silly money, then we take it.

 

[The Hilton]

Blimey. Garnacho is the only player aside from Bruno and Amad who has shown he can create opportunities.

Obviously he’s inconsistent - but he’s also the only player in the squad aside from Amad than runs with the ball.

Zirkzee has shown glimpses of being able to control the ball and hold off the opposition. His touch is good - but it never leads to anything.

Zirkzee could be replaced cheaply, and frankly there are dozens and dozens of players that could do what he does, a player with Garnacho’s potential and spark would be very expensive.

This isn't remotely true, Garnacho's 8th in our squad for chances created per 90 minutes this season, and similarly 8th for big chances created.

On top of that, you mention him running with the ball, his dribbling and take-on success rate makes him one of the worst in the league at it.

The comparison with Zirkzee is bizarre as well, his touch never leads to anything, that's in comparison to Garnacho who's touches lead to what exactly? Shots blasted into defenders' shins?

Garnacho is among our worst players for success rates when it comes to actions that could create chances, e.g. dribbling, crossing, final 3rd passing, etc, he's also our most dispossessed.

Replacing a player who doesn't create much, loses the ball a lot, is among the worst dribblers in the league, etc, really wouldn't be that expensive.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Good player and the only reason people want him out is PSR.

If PSR wasn't an issue im sure he is good enough for this squad. Good work rate and gets himself involved but his decision making is lacking, as seen throughout his career is amazing as an impact sub.

I'd want him out even if we were the richest club in the world. He's crap

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

This isn't remotely true, Garnacho's 8th in our squad for chances created per 90 minutes this season, and similarly 8th for big chances created.

On top of that, you mention him running with the ball, his dribbling and take-on success rate makes him one of the worst in the league at it.

The comparison with Zirkzee is bizarre as well, his touch never leads to anything, that's in comparison to Garnacho who's touches lead to what exactly? Shots blasted into defenders' shins?

Garnacho is among our worst players for success rates when it comes to actions that could create chances, e.g. dribbling, crossing, final 3rd passing, etc, he's also our most dispossessed.

Replacing a player who doesn't create much, loses the ball a lot, is among the worst dribblers in the league, etc, really wouldn't be that expensive.

I see your points. But also, I think we need to look beyond this season and Garnacho has shown tremendous potential, and the ability to be productive.

The team has been appalling, so there are very few players who come out of this season with credit, and he’s been poor. But in Garnacho I see a player who can improve, and he offers something that no one else in the squad does (bar Rashford - but he’s on loan and not coming back) - that’s penetration.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

That's a big take. Zirkzee has shown absolutely nothing in the time that he has been here that he would even be better than Weghorst.

Garnacho is fine, keep him as a backup winger. Get a proper left winger in and Garnacho is a good bench option to have.

I mean this is objectively false, Zirkzee is clearly better than Weghorst as is his (meager) production.

Do people not remember how horrific Weghorst actually was?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I see your points. But also, I think we need to look beyond this season and Garnacho has shown tremendous potential, and the ability to be productive.

The team has been appalling, so there are very few players who come out of this season with credit, and he’s been poor. But in Garnacho I see a player who can improve, and he offers something that no one else in the squad does (bar Rashford - but he’s on loan and not coming back) - that’s penetration.

But the team has been appalling partly because of him... which is sort of the point. It's not like we've been getting pegged back in all of these games and unable to ever get our forwards a sniff of the ball in dangerous spots.

And Garnacho literally hasn't improved in almost 3 seasons now, which is sort of our point. I'd be singing a different tune if there was clear signs of development with him but maybe his production was a bit erratic, but his overall game is borderline worse than it was as an 18 year old super sub with us. He's accumulated some decent G/A totals due to pure volume of opportunities, but it's all very inefficient and in between the end product is far too much sloppiness/wastefulness in open play.

Too many seem to have blinders on with him because of a few great moments in between a period of disaster for the club.

 

[Smores]

Some on here just assume any player who runs at defenders and shoot all the time must be great attacking talents. Largely because if you squint hard enough it sort of looks like what Giggs and Ronaldo would do.

Shooting into defenders legs is just shit play that you see across the leagues, it doesn't make you a talent. A bit of skill or physicality to get separation and getting a decent shot (or pass) off is talent.

I'd keep him another season but I don't actually think he's going to improve significantly. If he's happy being a bench player all good.

 

[Olecurls99]

Blimey. Garnacho is the only player aside from Bruno and Amad who has shown he can create opportunities.

Obviously he’s inconsistent - but he’s also the only player in the squad aside from Amad than runs with the ball.

Zirkzee has shown glimpses of being able to control the ball and hold off the opposition. His touch is good - but it never leads to anything.

Zirkzee could be replaced cheaply, and frankly there are dozens and dozens of players that could do what he does, a player with Garnacho’s potential and spark would be very expensive.

He creates nothing, especially on the left. He doesn't even try to create. He's one of the most selfish players I've ever seen. Where does this idea that he's creative come from?

 

[Quagmaguire]

But the team has been appalling partly because of him... which is sort of the point. It's not like we've been getting pegged back in all of these games and unable to ever get our forwards a sniff of the ball in dangerous spots.

And Garnacho literally hasn't improved in almost 3 seasons now, which is sort of our point. I'd be singing a different tune if there was clear signs of development with him but maybe his production was a bit erratic, but his overall game is borderline worse than it was as an 18 year old super sub with us. He's accumulated some decent G/A totals due to pure volume of opportunities, but it's all very inefficient and in between the end product is far too much sloppiness/wastefulness in open play.

Too many seem to have blinders on with him because of a few great moments in between a period of disaster for the club.

I'm not sure.

He hasn't shown progress in 3 season because this season the teams tactics completely changed because of a new manager.

Garnacho went from playing as an inverted forward in a counter attacking team which suits his game & why he tends to cut in and shoot to playing in a team that has made him play as a Left sided attacking midfielder which is not really his game.

Garnacho is even better as one of Amorims inverted wingbacks than as a LAM.

Garnacho's progress hasn't improved because of him playing a new role which needs different skills than cutting in and shooting which is what inverted forwards do - so blaming his IQ is a bit wrong because inverted forwards are primarily forwards and goalscorers - not creators.

Garnacho doesn't fit the system but this is because Amorim's system is so secure and has no lee-way. Mbappe won't be able to play LAM if he came from PSG and we had a striker up top already playing.

If we didn't have PSR problems we would keeping Garnacho because for all we know this time next year Amorim might have lost his job and we hire someone who plays inverted forwards again & suddenly Garnacho increases in values and most possibly his performances increases too.

However, if we are stuck in a PSR problem then it's more of a gamble If we take our chance on Garnacho coming good or Amorim coming good & alot of the fanbase have made that mind up as soon as the PSR rumours were publicised - as a result alot of the fan base are angrily pushing the next player out as soon as they can because its what alot of our fanbase try to do.

 

[bosnian_red]

He creates nothing, especially on the left. He doesn't even try to create. He's one of the most selfish players I've ever seen. Where does this idea that he's creative come from?

He creates dangerous positions and opportunities. He does ruin a lot of them with bad decisions, sure, but he is the only real threat to the opposition we have outside of Bruno. He has a ridiculously high amount of touches in the opposition box and gets the ball into the box a really high amount, which gives you hope that if he improves his decision making a bit (normal hope for young players), then that's a reasonable extrapolation into being a very productive player.

Saying he creates opportunities doesn't mean he is an Ozil style creative passer. He just makes things happen. Hojlund makes nothing happen, Zirkzee is decent and a neat player, but he doesn't make anything happen in the attack really, he doesn't create dangerous positions etc. Garnacho is our only fit source of being able to run with the ball and carry the ball into dangerous positions. Would be nice if he made better decisions from those positions, but he also would have an easier job at that if he had better targets to give the ball to, and he wouldn't seem so inconsistent if we had senior players capable of running with the ball and causing danger to the opposition so Garnacho could be rotated and not be relied on to be the only dynamic player we can play.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I didn’t want him sold in the summer but I’ve seen more than enough of him selfishly refusing to pass to a teammate in a better position, running into blind alleys and constantly cutting in and blasting it into row z this season I’ve changed my mind. Time to get gone, I just hope Napoli or some other club are still interested in the summer after watching his performances this season.

 

[Olecurls99]

He creates dangerous positions and opportunities. He does ruin a lot of them with bad decisions, sure, but he is the only real threat to the opposition we have outside of Bruno. He has a ridiculously high amount of touches in the opposition box and gets the ball into the box a really high amount, which gives you hope that if he improves his decision making a bit (normal hope for young players), then that's a reasonable extrapolation into being a very productive player.

Saying he creates opportunities doesn't mean he is an Ozil style creative passer. He just makes things happen. Hojlund makes nothing happen, Zirkzee is decent and a neat player, but he doesn't make anything happen in the attack really, he doesn't create dangerous positions etc. Garnacho is our only fit source of being able to run with the ball and carry the ball into dangerous positions. Would be nice if he made better decisions from those positions, but he also would have an easier job at that if he had better targets to give the ball to, and he wouldn't seem so inconsistent if we had senior players capable of running with the ball and causing danger to the opposition so Garnacho could be rotated and not be relied on to be the only dynamic player we can play.

Fair enough, he's a bit like Freddie Ljunberg in that he can be found in dangerous positions, but I wouldn't call that being creative. It is a useful skill if you can finish/create from those positions, in the meantime we need some actual creators. Amad-Cunha sounds like a good 10 pairing to me.

 

[bosnian_red]

Fair enough, he's a bit like Freddie Ljunberg in that he can be found in dangerous positions, but I wouldn't call that being creative. It is a useful skill if you can finish/create from those positions, in the meantime we need some actual creators. Amad-Cunha sounds like a good 10 pairing to me.

Yeah and it's why Garnacho is a very good talent for me, a big part of the battle is getting in the right position. Young players having inconsistent end product isn't new, and not a huge problem... As long as you use them in a role that fits their current level and not rely on them. He should be rotating and competing with Amad as the young player pushing for a starter spot while we have an experienced key starter at the other spot. Rashford was supposed to be that guy for us.

 

[The Hilton]

He creates dangerous positions and opportunities. He does ruin a lot of them with bad decisions, sure, but he is the only real threat to the opposition we have outside of Bruno. He has a ridiculously high amount of touches in the opposition box and gets the ball into the box a really high amount, which gives you hope that if he improves his decision making a bit (normal hope for young players), then that's a reasonable extrapolation into being a very productive player.

Saying he creates opportunities doesn't mean he is an Ozil style creative passer. He just makes things happen. Hojlund makes nothing happen, Zirkzee is decent and a neat player, but he doesn't make anything happen in the attack really, he doesn't create dangerous positions etc. Garnacho is our only fit source of being able to run with the ball and carry the ball into dangerous positions. Would be nice if he made better decisions from those positions, but he also would have an easier job at that if he had better targets to give the ball to, and he wouldn't seem so inconsistent if we had senior players capable of running with the ball and causing danger to the opposition so Garnacho could be rotated and not be relied on to be the only dynamic player we can play.

What are these dangerous positions and opportunities? What does he make happen? Statistically he isn't particularly creative at all, in fact Zirkzee who "doesn't make anything happen in attack really" has the same big chances created per 90 minutes.

Garnacho does have a lot of touches in the opposition box, but that doesn't automatically mean danger - he's unable to beat men to make room for good shooting opportunities, which contributes to his poor shooting accuracy, his pass completion rate in the final 3rd is poor, his poor dribble success rate has him among the worst players in the league, he's one of our worst crossers in terms of success rate, and he's our most often dispossessed player. Having better targets to give the ball to doesn't matter when he hardly passes and isn't accurate with those passes on the occasions he does.

On top of that, he isn't really able to make better decisions, because he has his head down whenever he's on the ball and so has a poor idea as to where his teammates and the goal are, and because he isn't very good at beating players, he doesn't make enough space for himself to have time to look up before playing the ball. The result is lots of shots blasted at opposition shins and blind crosses/cutbacks that rarely reach a teammate.

He is a bit better as a substitute, as against tired defenders when he's fresh he's able to make a little more space, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if he stays on in that role, but if we get offered any decent money for him we should be snapping it up.

 

[Olecurls99]

Yeah and it's why Garnacho is a very good talent for me, a big part of the battle is getting in the right position. Young players having inconsistent end product isn't new, and not a huge problem... As long as you use them in a role that fits their current level and not rely on them. He should be rotating and competing with Amad as the young player pushing for a starter spot while we have an experienced key starter at the other spot. Rashford was supposed to be that guy for us.

Yeah Rashford screwed us alright. Hopefully we can replace him with a proper number 10.

 

[bosnian_red]

What are these dangerous positions and opportunities? What does he make happen? Statistically he isn't particularly creative at all, in fact Zirkzee who "doesn't make anything happen in attack really" has the same big chances created per 90 minutes.

Garnacho does have a lot of touches in the opposition box, but that doesn't automatically mean danger - he's unable to beat men to make room for good shooting opportunities, which contributes to his poor shooting accuracy, his pass completion rate in the final 3rd is poor, his poor dribble success rate has him among the worst players in the league, he's one of our worst crossers in terms of success rate, and he's our most often dispossessed player. Having better targets to give the ball to doesn't matter when he hardly passes and isn't accurate with those passes on the occasions he does.

On top of that, he isn't really able to make better decisions, because he has his head down whenever he's on the ball and so has a poor idea as to where his teammates and the goal are, and because he isn't very good at beating players, he doesn't make enough space for himself to have time to look up before playing the ball. The result is lots of shots blasted at opposition shins and blind crosses/cutbacks that rarely reach a teammate.

He is a bit better as a substitute, as against tired defenders when he's fresh he's able to make a little more space, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if he stays on in that role, but if we get offered any decent money for him we should be snapping it up.

Getting into the penalty area is obviously a dangerous position. Having a bad end product, bad decision making means he doesn't make use of these positions. Not that complicated. He's 20, is it a surprise that a young player has a bad end product when there is feck all to pass to as well?

 

[Smores]

Getting into the penalty area is obviously a dangerous position. Having a bad end product, bad decision making means he doesn't make use of these positions. Not that complicated. He's 20, is it a surprise that a young player has a bad end product when there is feck all to pass to as well?

Your argument seems to be saying that for a young player to be rated he should just focus on running into the box and shooting no matter what. Seems a terrible idea to support that notion to me as it's exactly what you try to train out of players in youth football.

 

[Olecurls99]

What are these dangerous positions and opportunities? What does he make happen? Statistically he isn't particularly creative at all, in fact Zirkzee who "doesn't make anything happen in attack really" has the same big chances created per 90 minutes.

Garnacho does have a lot of touches in the opposition box, but that doesn't automatically mean danger - he's unable to beat men to make room for good shooting opportunities, which contributes to his poor shooting accuracy, his pass completion rate in the final 3rd is poor, his poor dribble success rate has him among the worst players in the league, he's one of our worst crossers in terms of success rate, and he's our most often dispossessed player. Having better targets to give the ball to doesn't matter when he hardly passes and isn't accurate with those passes on the occasions he does.

On top of that, he isn't really able to make better decisions, because he has his head down whenever he's on the ball and so has a poor idea as to where his teammates and the goal are, and because he isn't very good at beating players, he doesn't make enough space for himself to have time to look up before playing the ball. The result is lots of shots blasted at opposition shins and blind crosses/cutbacks that rarely reach a teammate.

He is a bit better as a substitute, as against tired defenders when he's fresh he's able to make a little more space, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if he stays on in that role, but if we get offered any decent money for him we should be snapping it up.

Zirkzee is definitely offering more than Garnacho at the 10 position. It's a shame they've been our only 2 options the last 2 months. 3 senior players for 3 attacking positions and people wonder why we're struggling for goals.

 

[The Hilton]

Getting into the penalty area is obviously a dangerous position. Having a bad end product, bad decision making means he doesn't make use of these positions. Not that complicated. He's 20, is it a surprise that a young player has a bad end product when there is feck all to pass to as well?

Being in the penalty area isn't automatically dangerous. Having the ball in the opposition box when you're one of the worst players in the league at dribbling and take-ons so can't make space for a shot, poor at shooting so the vast majority of shots you do take aren't threatening, and very poor at crossing or passing in the final third so you're unlikely to find a teammate.

Him being 20 can be used an excuse for poor decision making (although it's arguable whether it's the only reason here), but it doesn't explain him not being very good at pretty much anything on the ball.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Being in the penalty area isn't automatically dangerous. Having the ball in the opposition box when you're one of the worst players in the league at dribbling and take-ons so can't make space for a shot, poor at shooting so the vast majority of shots you do take aren't threatening, and very poor at crossing or passing in the final third so you're unlikely to find a teammate.

Him being 20 can be used an excuse for poor decision making (although it's arguable whether it's the only reason here), but it doesn't explain him not being very good at pretty much anything on the ball.

I've sort of given up arguing this point. Seems to many have the "academy kid" blinders on and will accept any excuse to avoiding conceding that he just isn't very good.

"Dangerous" is such a cliche'd vague term that so many use but few ever give an objective definition for. Constantly skewing chances/misplacing passes/getting dispossessed when dribbling wouldn't seem very dangerous to me, and just because you're doing so at a high volume doesn't really change that fact.

 

[bosnian_red]

Your argument seems to be saying that for a young player to be rated he should just focus on running into the box and shooting no matter what. Seems a terrible idea to support that notion to me as it's exactly what you try to train out of players in youth football.

No, the argument is he gets the ball into dangerous positions regularly whether it's with his carrying to bring the ball there himself, or his movement to receive the ball there. Those are qualities that literally nobody else in our team has now that Amad is injured. He needs to work on his end product, but that end product has so far already been among the most productive of his age group in Europe across all competitions since he broke through. So of course there is potential to improve.

Nobody is telling young players to stop getting the ball into dangerous positions, that's ridiculous and youth coaching is actively in favor of encouraging players to try things and show flair. End product is Garnacho's weakest aspect. He fecks up a lot of good positions, chances, passes by making bad decisions or the final technique. Is it an ability issue, or just a mental issue? Usually a mix, but also that being a problem at 20 is never a problem nor is it a surprise. The surprise is when players like Lamine Yamal don't have that issue.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

No, the argument is he gets the ball into dangerous positions regularly whether it's with his carrying to bring the ball there himself, or his movement to receive the ball there. Those are qualities that literally nobody else in our team has now that Amad is injured. He needs to work on his end product, but that end product has so far already been among the most productive of his age group in Europe across all competitions since he broke through. So of course there is potential to improve.

Nobody is telling young players to stop getting the ball into dangerous positions, that's ridiculous and youth coaching is actively in favor of encouraging players to try things and show flair. End product is Garnacho's weakest aspect. He fecks up a lot of good positions, chances, passes by making bad decisions or the final technique. Is it an ability issue, or just a mental issue? Usually a mix, but also that being a problem at 20 is never a problem nor is it a surprise. The surprise is when players like Lamine Yamal don't have that issue.

I agree with your assessment, he is very frustrating with his end product currently and doesn’t seem to have progressed as much as I thought he would have this year but I also see a good player in him and like his attributes. I’d happily give him a couple more years to see if his end product improves consistently. Others need to go first.

 

[Zumbi]

Yeah and it's why Garnacho is a very good talent for me, a big part of the battle is getting in the right position. Young players having inconsistent end product isn't new, and not a huge problem... As long as you use them in a role that fits their current level and not rely on them. He should be rotating and competing with Amad as the young player pushing for a starter spot while we have an experienced key starter at the other spot. Rashford was supposed to be that guy for us.

No. After this season, Amad is clearly a starter and Garnacho should be an impact sub at best. Amad is a more developed, more intelligent and more dangerous footballer.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I agree with your assessment, he is very frustrating with his end product currently and doesn’t seem to have progressed as much as I thought he would have this year but I also see a good player in him and like his attributes. I’d happily give him a couple more years to see if his end product improves consistently. Others need to go first.

Purely out of interest, what attributes are you referring to?

I personally think he has quite a low ceiling in nearly all attributes you'd need to be a good attacker.

He's a real tryer, has a lot of self belief and a pretty good first touch. You could maybe say decent attacking instincts.

Other than that I begin to struggle. Very weak, not particularly fast, not a good passer, not a good dribbler, average finishing, not a good shot on him, horrendous reading of the game, very hit and miss crosser of the ball.

I don't dislike the lad but I can't see where this good player is that some people are seeing.

 

[KD6-3.7]

I know it would have left us embarrassingly short on attacking options but think we will look a bit silly by the end of the season rejecting Napoli’s bid.

I like him more than most but there’s not much to suggest he’ll be anything great or even above average.

 

[The Hilton]

I've sort of given up arguing this point. Seems to many have the "academy kid" blinders on and will accept any excuse to avoiding conceding that he just isn't very good.

"Dangerous" is such a cliche'd vague term that so many use but few ever give an objective definition for. Constantly skewing chances/misplacing passes/getting dispossessed when dribbling wouldn't seem very dangerous to me, and just because you're doing so at a high volume doesn't really change that fact.

It's the same as the "potential" and "attributes" people talk about, most of it is imaginary. I get the attachment to youngsters from the academy, but there's very little to suggest he'll ever be good enough, especially in the PL where he doesn't have the physical tools.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I've sort of given up arguing this point. Seems to many have the "academy kid" blinders on and will accept any excuse to avoiding conceding that he just isn't very good.

"Dangerous" is such a cliche'd vague term that so many use but few ever give an objective definition for. Constantly skewing chances/misplacing passes/getting dispossessed when dribbling wouldn't seem very dangerous to me, and just because you're doing so at a high volume doesn't really change that fact.

Football is a game of tradeoffs. You make several choices all over the pitch with the players and their roles, you win some things & lose some others, but the strife is to strike a good balance. This is what makes a team "more than the sum of its parts".

If you sit down and watch clips from the last couple of years, you'll notice that opposition defenders deliberately choose to use a double-team on him and leave others unmarked because they know he won't pass the ball. It would make you laugh, if it didn't make you cry. But that's the price we currently pay for him "getting in good positions and being a threat".

Will he become better? Who knows? But "leaving him out there to do his thing" isn't the way to nurture a player. This is why we have turned from a prime destination for young players to a graveyard for talents. It's a vicious circle: Managers need to get results out of a bad team, players (now more than ever) are after the big paycheck from day one, and the commercial behemoth that is United will try to "create" stars even if the performances on the pitch can't provide one. The manager hangs on to an unpolished and still limited player's ability for dear life, the player does his own thing because he realizes this is his moment to chase the big bucks, the club rushes to protect "the asset". All the while, the fans are starving for some exciting players amidst all the doom and gloom. So, of course, Ronaldo is the point of reference. Both the club and the fans want it to be so. Ask yourself this simple question: Would we be having this debate, if United were a well-functioning side and Garnacho (at this point of his career) was being compared to - let's say - Trossard (but with age on his side)? Puts a shift in, carries the ball adequately, a bit wasteful to be the main threat, but can score important goals. With an appropriate squad role and salary. I don't think we would.

 

[bosnian_red]

No. After this season, Amad is clearly a starter and Garnacho should be an impact sub at best. Amad is a more developed, more intelligent and more dangerous footballer.

Amads had like 2 months of consistent form in his career. Yes he was showing he's a very good player, but he is also young (2 years older than Garnacho though). The point is that Amad and Garnacho should be competing for a spot, and if Amad shows consistency, then he simply starts more while Garna is an impact sub until he works his way into the team more. That's how you handle young players. We're ruining our talented young players by giving them roles they aren't ready for and it makes them play worse and hurts their development and applying too much pressure on them..

 

[bosnian_red]

Purely out of interest, what attributes are you referring to?

I personally think he has quite a low ceiling in nearly all attributes you'd need to be a good attacker.

He's a real tryer, has a lot of self belief and a pretty good first touch. You could maybe say decent attacking instincts.

Other than that I begin to struggle. Very weak, not particularly fast, not a good passer, not a good dribbler, average finishing, not a good shot on him, horrendous reading of the game, very hit and miss crosser of the ball.

I don't dislike the lad but I can't see where this good player is that some people are seeing.

It's been done a million times. His off the ball movement is excellent, he has a very good work rate and mentality, his touch is really good, he can run with the ball though yes his actual take on skills aren't great. He's excellent at creating half a yard to get a shot or cross off though, and he is capable of really good (and varied) shots, crosses and passes, and with both feet he's shown he can do that. It's just inconsistent, which yeah he is 20.

Put him in a better side, get some development into his decision making which I can't believe how many times I have to explain this but a 20 year old, in time, will get better decision making, and he definitely has a high ceiling if he improved there. How high, up for debate sure. But to say he's an average talent at best is dumb. Most players his age simply aren't playing at this level, let alone shown some of the big performances and productivity that he has. Amad who everyone thinks is amazing now was in the championship at this age. Garnacho has shown very good performances against top teams and shit performances against shit teams. It's just inconsistency for a variety of reasons. Because of his own current level, his age, another example of poor development at this club and putting too much pressure on a young player, putting a young player in a role they aren't ready for, not surrounding them with good enough players, and so on. We've got some of the worst attacking options in the league, and that's why he plays every constantly under both Ten Hag and Amorim. He's the only one in our squad capable of bringing some dynamism, but it's also probably not helping his development not having others he can learn from.

 

[Zumbi]

Amads had like 2 months of consistent form in his career. Yes he was showing he's a very good player, but he is also young (2 years older than Garnacho though). The point is that Amad and Garnacho should be competing for a spot, and if Amad shows consistency, then he simply starts more while Garna is an impact sub until he works his way into the team more. That's how you handle young players. We're ruining our talented young players by giving them roles they aren't ready for and it makes them play worse and hurts their development and applying too much pressure on them..

That’s just not true. He was a stand out performer for the season he was Sunderland, ending up as their top scorer. He’s had some injury set backs this season, but he is so clearly above Garnacho in the pecking order under Amorim.

Of course young players need their load carefully managed, and they can “compete for a spot” all they like, but Amad is winning that competition as long as he’s fit, because he’s just a better footballer.

 

[Pughnichi]

That's a big take. Zirkzee has shown absolutely nothing in the time that he has been here that he would even be better than Weghorst.

Garnacho is fine, keep him as a backup winger. Get a proper left winger in and Garnacho is a good bench option to have.

It’s too late for that. We’ve treated him like a first team player and he’ll now have an embedded belief that he should be starting games regularly for us. He shouldn’t.

Agree he would be a good back up/rotation option. I just don’t see him accepting that role.