Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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I hold the view that Keane did a lot more than go in with flying tackles. The man's testicles are made granite, no doubt, but he was a leader of men into battle. Carrick is not a leader of men into battle. Carrick is no Keane. For that matter, he's no Makalele or Vieira either. Carrick relished his relative obscurity and seeks nothing other than the satisfaction of a job brilliantly done.
I'm good with the "current form" thesis. All I'm saying is that we've seen this before and we have NOT had to wait six years to see it. Has he had down days too? Of course. So has Rooney, Rio, Vidic and Evra. We've seen Valencia and Nani have down days. But Carrick has been our most consistently solid performer since his arrival and has put in quite a few astonishing performances before this season. I'd love to see him put in an astonishing performance every single game but that's simply not possible.
Carrick has not been merely a "nice player", or as another poster hilariously put it recently, a mere "cog in the machine". But no, he is no Keane.
It really is incredible that he's been here for 6/7 years now - and has pretty much been in the starting line up for all that time, give or take a season or two.
Such an under-rated guy. Similar to Scholes when it comes to off-field business; not a peep from him at all. A model professional if I've ever seen one.
Such an under-rated guy. Similar to Scholes when it comes to off-field business; not a peep from him at all. A model professional if I've ever seen one.
Completely agree with that analysis, except that 1) Scholes is our best short passer as well as long, and 2) The problem is also psychological: I agree Carrick's covering for Scholes and that limits his game, but he also gives the ball to Scholes every time he asks for it, irrespective of the situation - even if he's just 2 yards away in no better position to use it.
To be fair, it must be kind of like being a writer and having James Joyce hanging around asking for the pen. Your brain tells you the guy died 70 years ago, but you'd still have a hard time not just giving him the pen.
I'd just give him the pen and get back to work at my keyboard, personally.
Can you develop a trust in yourself with the ball at feet?
Carrick needs it badly. Mistakes like that almost costing us all he had to do was either hoof it clear or bring it down and turn away from the player.
Apart from that he was quite sharp going forward. The defensive side again very dubious.
Carrick needs it badly. Mistakes like that almost costing us all he had to do was either hoof it clear or bring it down and turn away from the player.
Apart from that he was quite sharp going forward. The defensive side again very dubious.
Let down massively by his midfield partner today, but he needs to work out how to deal with being pressed, and we need to work out what do when he is as well.
It's often a simple case of shut down Carrick and you shut down United, and it has been for too long.
It's often a simple case of shut down Carrick and you shut down United, and it has been for too long.
agree with this.
Carrick still got through a lot of good defensive work. Anderson might as well of not been on the pitch, his 66% pass completion rate was unacceptable. You are right in that Carrick struggles under pressure which is why I thought that we would bring on Clev, when he is fresh, he always shows for the ball and retains possession, something that Ando does not do.
The stupid pass to de Gea then becoming a shrinking violet under pressure. Well done Michael.
Not his best game today. Maybe needs a rest ?
He looked tired, he needs a couple of weeks break to get refreshed.
He had the same disease as the rest of the midfield tonight. 'Givitawaysiasis''
Shit pitch helped no-one. Just a blip for most of the team tonight.
First off match in how long? Well done Michael indeed.
Apart from the goal mistake, he wasn't poor by any means IMO. Won possesion one hundred times, helped defence, made couple of excellent clearances.
You can't blame him because he couldn't single handedly made us look better, his partner was awfull, and rest of the team wasn't good also.
You can't blame him because he couldn't single handedly made us look better, his partner was awfull, and rest of the team wasn't good also.
Fair play, looking at the stats it suggests he played well;
4/5 Tackles won
5 Interceptions
2 Blocks
1/4 Clearances
1/1 Arial Duels won
There is still something there. Whether it is smart movement to the ball, not allowing players past him or shepherding play. Something for me is still missing.
He had a decent all round game defensively but his passing was off and he made a terrible mistake that led to a goal.
I know he was good defensively. I also know it wasn't his best game, but still he played fairly good considering how poor his partner was, I think he would have looked better if he played alone in midfield today.
This guys deserves and needs a break. Unfortunately he might not get that with two tough league games and Madrid coming up in two weeks.
That was literally his first bad game in months. How anyone can be critical of him is beyond me. Yes it was a poor game, but everyone has them.
Only watched highlights so can't comment on his overall game. Will put the blame for the goal at his feet. Rubbish pass where he should have done much better.
He was very poor, although not as bad as Anderson. But he has been superb recently so I'd give him that one.
One off game from Carrick in 20-odd games. I'll take that.
Wouldn't have looked so bad if the other 10 players out there played to their ability. But no. Let's all give the ball away.
That Liverpool/Bluemoon fella who compared us to Stoke might be on to something
Wouldn't have looked so bad if the other 10 players out there played to their ability. But no. Let's all give the ball away.
That Liverpool/Bluemoon fella who compared us to Stoke might be on to something
Aye.
I often think he holds onto the ball a little too long, but that's his style of play I suppose.
My problem with Carrick is that despite all of the positives he has - when things arent going well, even against meager oppoisition, he's unable to be the player who takes the game by the scruff of the neck and changes thinks.
There's no doubt he's a good player - he's at his best when United are in the ascendancy, as most players would be. But when the chips are down he rarely takes a game up a notch and stands out.
That, for me is why he'll never be a top class player.
Ideally we would play a middle-three of Carrick, Cleverley and Anderson. We don't have the players in midfield to have an effective middle-two.
With those three there is no loss in creativity - the front three can just get on with it (RVP and Rooney in front of Kagawa), and width from Rafael and Evra.
Our wingers have stunk all season so we should this formation, and dispense with 4-4-2 (no diamond either please).
With those three there is no loss in creativity - the front three can just get on with it (RVP and Rooney in front of Kagawa), and width from Rafael and Evra.
Our wingers have stunk all season so we should this formation, and dispense with 4-4-2 (no diamond either please).
Carrick and Cleverley have been very effective together at times this season...
...but centre midfield hasn't been consistently good, has it?
I fear if we played a pair in there against Real, they'd stroll through our midfield (as numerous Euro sides do in the Champions League).
I would agree we have enough to win the Prem with the current midfield, and if that is the summit of our ambition, then so be it...but I think Fergie really wants his third Champions League and it'll be difficult with our current midfield options.
The length of time Carrick holds the ball is a flaw he should have ironed out of his game. Carrick is great with the game ahead of him when he can pick up the ball, look up and identify a pass but he is not as good as he should or could be when hurried. He does not appear to form a picture in his head of what he wants to do before he gets the ball, he seems to need to take a touch and then decide. If Carrick used his talent to play his way out of trouble (was it against Spurs where he took the ball back to goal and turned away from two men into space?) more this wouldn't be so bad. But because he often shrinks when pressed, instead of drawing men in and taking them out of the game with a bit of skill, this need to take a touch often finds Carrick forced into bad positions and then playing bad passes. Its a shame cos if Carrick eliminated this tendency he'd be a true standout.
Carrick was holding onto the ball longer then usual yesterday though, and I think that was largely due to the lack of options around he had around him. The movement from our players towards the ball was poor yesterday I thought (in fact, just our movement in general wasn't great) which is why people kept getting caught in possession/we kept hoofing it long. For example, it's the first game I've seen for us where RVP made far more runs in behind their defence then he did towards play.
Also, not having natural wingers, there wasn't a consistant out ball to be had, which was also probably a factor.
I'd say Carrick and Cleverley have been consistantly good as a pairing, Especially for the first half/60 minutes of matches until Cleverley inevitably Travellers himself out.
Anyone got any stats on what our record is when those two start together?
Also, not having natural wingers, there wasn't a consistant out ball to be had, which was also probably a factor.
I'd say Carrick and Cleverley have been consistantly good as a pairing, Especially for the first half/60 minutes of matches until Cleverley inevitably Travellers himself out.
Anyone got any stats on what our record is when those two start together?
We all know Carrick's worst quality is keeping possession under pressure, it always has been and always will be. I think when in that situation we need to play with people who are equally mobile and good at keeping the ball in tight spaces to counter it. Playing Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa in the middle would help him out much more than just him and Anderson.
In my opinion changing the back 4 wasn't the solution (the like for like change continued to invite pressure and did nothing to stem the tide): Nani, Cleverley and Valencia should have come on for Welbeck, RVP and Anderson. This would give us a midfield 3 who can keep the ball and harass as much as they were, as well as the wide players being an outlet and stretching the pitch.
In my opinion changing the back 4 wasn't the solution (the like for like change continued to invite pressure and did nothing to stem the tide): Nani, Cleverley and Valencia should have come on for Welbeck, RVP and Anderson. This would give us a midfield 3 who can keep the ball and harass as much as they were, as well as the wide players being an outlet and stretching the pitch.
Before this season I'd have tended to agree, but this season he's shown a few times (particularly against Swansea) that he can actually be excellent when put under pressure... Swansea are a pressing side, but he was turning away from men and picking out people for fun in that game.
I think yesterday was just a bad day at the office. The pitch also didn't help his cause, and, as just mentioned, the lack of movement around him didn't help either.
He's woeful when pressed, hence the shocking performances in Europe over the last 2 years. I am just shocked that nobody in the PL seems to do it. Southampton were the first team to really press United high up the pitch at OT this season. When this happens Carrick falls to pieces.
As I just said... Swansea pressed us at the Liberty and Carrick was the best player on the park by a distance.
In general terms, no he hasn't been good when pressed, but it's not that he can't play well at all when he is.
I wasn't impressed with the two self proclaimed 'nine and a halfs' yesterday. They really weren't in the areas we needed them in the second half. Throw in a lack of width for te most part and Carrick struggles. I wasn't just that he was pressed, you'd have to be blind to see such lack of options on for the pass.
Not a good night for anyone in reality, certainly just a minor blip in what has been a solid few months for Carrick.
This concept that he was suddenly pressed and is now useless is stupid. He's had tougher battles to contend with this year and come out on top. He was still colossal defensively when we needed someone to block a through ball or get a toe on the ball, not a lot of mention in that respect considering the rest of the team were letting them play.
Not a good night for anyone in reality, certainly just a minor blip in what has been a solid few months for Carrick.
This concept that he was suddenly pressed and is now useless is stupid. He's had tougher battles to contend with this year and come out on top. He was still colossal defensively when we needed someone to block a through ball or get a toe on the ball, not a lot of mention in that respect considering the rest of the team were letting them play.
Spot on! I don't understand how can people blame him for yesterday's poor performance from team.
Even when Carrick's still in second gear and can't in the team for Premier League matches he's a fixture in our CL team and that's because he's consistently excellent in Europe. It's mental that people are still so hung up on two games v Barcelona. In his 6 and a bit seasons here we've reached the final three times, the semi-finals once and the quarter-finals once, with him having standout performances in each season and with some of his best performances in a United shirt coming on that stage. Last year we went out at the group stage, the year before we got to the final with Carrick putting in MOTM performances in the quarter-final and semi-final.
And yet somehow we've been shit in Europe because Carrick can't play when being pressed. Hehe. That's just the go-to criticism for Carrick...always mentioned when he plays poorly, never mentioned when he in fact excels under pressure (hint: try watching a few games this season, we've invited pressure all year and it's his been his best season). Carrick is not poor under pressure, Carrick struggles when there are a lack of options in front of him and he has to try and take on a team himself. That's true of most midfielders. The reason you don't see Xavi have poor games like that and look flustered under pressure is partly because he has excellent ball control but mainly because he always has two or three options at all times. Give Carrick that kind of support and he generally excels.
I think that's pretty much the reverse of the reality.
Yes he can linger on the ball too long when he's out of form. When he's confident and on his game, as he has been recently, he repeatedly plays first-time passes through midfield to the forward line. Clever, incisive balls that launch attacks.
I don't understand why so many of our fans can't see this, it's pretty much his signature skill.
Yep, aided by the fact he's one of the most two-footed midfielders around meaning he can take two or three players out of the game without even adjusting his body. He needs options to do that though, otherwise he's forced to hold onto the ball a bit longer and wait for people to create an angle for him. Not sure why people remember the dallying on the ball more easily than the first-time passes.