It's because when he's playing really well its a quiet type of well that just ticks along unnoticed, but when he's out of form and playing badly he looks terrible and sometimes can be seen to literally hide behind others so he doesn't get the ball.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
- Start date
Christ I don't think I'll ever stop hearing about that game vs Ecuador whenever I see the words 'Carrick' and 'England' mentioned together.
You will, as soon as he gets a proper look in ahead of other, mostly average England CMs.
England managers are trained to overlook and disregard United players. I wouldn't worry too much about Carrick.
Those on the continent rate him highly. Most of the caf not too long ago underrated him massively - quite a lot of United fans still do as do most other English supporters.
It's pretty much the only meaningful game he's ever been allowed to play for England. Meanwhile Parker and Barry have both had entire tournaments to show how just how fecking mediocre they are.
Been excellent of late. Massively impressed.
He'd not look out of place in that Busquets role for Barca/Spain in this form.
Do you have any explanation for our poor defensive record this season?
I'm sure Gary Neville will be in Hodgson's ear about him a lot.
Rio Ferdinand has been largely terrible, and Ferguson has been at turns unable and unwilling to drop him.
Ferdinand hasn't been terrible at all.
Rio has been fine for the most part
I don't understand your point, unless you're trying to imply Carrick's not been very, very good over the last 2 months?
Well I can tell you 1 thing, Carrick's not to blame. A combination of defensive frailties, team selection, injuries, our team generally playing shit for 60 minutes of most matches etc etc.
When everyone's fit, you'll see things shore up at the back.
Is Carrick one of the players playing shit for 60 minutes of most matches? If he is I don't know how you can say he's been very very good.
He has been very, very good though. Anyone watching our matches will tell you that. There's not much Carrick can do when defenders are allowing crosses into the box or he's left isolated in midfield because Giggs/Scholes doesn't have the legs to help out or when individual errors gifts the opponents a goal or just general good play from the opponents.
Can you specifically highlight any instances you felt Carrick's let us down this season? Also, 60 minutes of shit is generally a TEAM issue. That doesn't mean all 11 players are awful. It's like trying to say RvP is shit for 60 minutes of most matches, when in fact there are a ton of variables to take into consideration.
We've conceded an absolutely ferocious amount of goals with him on the pitch. He's still a decent player, but he's not half the defender he once was, despite the odd brilliant performance. At this point he should be fourth choice, you just need to look at how much better the defence has been when we've been able to pair two of Vidic, Evans and Smalling to see why.
Bit OTT, I agree with your sentiment but Carrick was ok for the first month or two, its only been for the last 2 months that he has really been on form, previously to that, he wasn't anything amazing. He was not poor, but by no means great, however he has very much improved his form and is now one of our most influential players at the minute.
The defensive problems if you had to allocate blame would be something like 2% blame IMO to Carrick, he is not a defender, he does protect the back four, but because a goal goes in you cant blame a deep lying CM, he is not the workhorse to throw in challenges here and there, that's more what Darren Fletcher was before his injury.
Sorry dude, I agree with you. I did say past 2 months (read up). Just sneaking in posts hurriedly (is that a word?) whilst doing some excel shit here at work in prep for our annual audit.
Haha no worries mate
And I said I knew what you were trying to say I think so I understood where you was coming from, and tell me about it, I am doing overdue management account reports that my directors are waiting on... probably not Redcafe time...Haha no worries mate
Those 2 words would scare the shit outta me - "overdue" & "directors".
Definitely not Caf time!
Good luck mate!
We've conceded a ferocious amount of goals regardless of who plays in defense. Him and Evans are pretty even in the PL in terms of goals conceded per game, but most people would agree that Evans has been very good.
Yeah I don't think Rio has been terrible. It's been more of a case that neither him, nor Evans is particularly physically dominant which has resulted in us conceding a fair amount of headers etc. (Which is strange, because I always thought Evans was a bit like Vidic & Smalling was a bit like Rio. Now Evans is arguably the better ball playing CB & Smalling is a bit more dominant in the air.)
I expect when Vidic is fit & playing regularly etc well be shipping a lot less goals.
I obviously have no facts to back this crap up, so I might be talking bollocks.
Not really, I don't think it's his fault particularly I'm just fishing for an explanation as to why we've been defending so poorly this season despite all of the players ostensibly playing well. I'm going to start a thread on it, it's not really fair to discuss it in the Carrick thread.
Yeah, true that. It's a weird one. I don't think anyone's going to be able to put their finger on the exact reason.
- slow starters
- injuries
- overrun midfield (especially on the counter)
- weird team selection
- wingers abysmal
- individual errors
- fullbacks allowing in crosses/CB's weak in air/set pieces
I'd hazard those themes coming through often.
Also, other than RvP, Rafael, Carrick & Evans I wouldn't say anyone else's been near their best. (Considering most are only returning from injury now anyway).
Except this isn't actually true. Obviously Rio has played so much that the sample isn't entirely fair, but if you look at the handful of matches when we've been able to pair two of Vidic, Smalling and Evans then we've tended to let in rather fewer goals in the matches with Rio in the team.* Like I said, the sample is small enough that it might be coincidence, but I'm confident that it's not.
*Of course we've been similarly porous when we've played Carrick or Wooton there, but obviously Rio is still much better than either of them.
It's not remotely fair. Smalling has started 3 PL games and Vidic 6 or something, Rio has started 15 (not sure if that includes Xmas games), and often been alongside Carrick or whomever.
I don't care what you're confident about, that's not going to convince me that Rio has been a level below everyone else. if anything Vidic has looked our weakest defender this season, which is of course understandable given all the injury problems.
I don't care what you're confident about, that's not going to convince me that Rio has been a level below everyone else. if anything Vidic has looked our weakest defender this season, which is of course understandable given all the injury problems.
Galatasaray 1-0
Braga A 3-1
West Ham H 1-0
Swansea A 1-1
West Brom H 2-0
Those are the five games where we've been able to pair two of our three best CBs. I've conceded that it's a small sample, but it's a small sample which includes half of the clean sheets we've kept this season.
The defence has been so awful with Rio in it I'd hope that Fergie would allow two of the others to form a partnership going forward, because at this point it seems glaringly obvious to me that if we take Rio out of the equation the defence improves substantially.
Braga A 3-1
West Ham H 1-0
Swansea A 1-1
West Brom H 2-0
Those are the five games where we've been able to pair two of our three best CBs. I've conceded that it's a small sample, but it's a small sample which includes half of the clean sheets we've kept this season.
The defence has been so awful with Rio in it I'd hope that Fergie would allow two of the others to form a partnership going forward, because at this point it seems glaringly obvious to me that if we take Rio out of the equation the defence improves substantially.
Did this in the "My Views on the season Thread" a bit ago:
Keepers
de Gea: 23 (1 @ Everton, 2 v Fulham, 0 v Galatasaray CL, 1 v Newcastle COC, 1 v CFR Cluj CL, 0 @ Newcastle, 2 v Stoke, 2 v Braga CL, 2 @ Chelsea, 1 v Arsenal, 1 @ Braga CL, 2 @ Aston Villa, 1 @ CFR Cluj CL, 2 @ Man City, 1 v Sunderland, 1 @ Swansea, 3 v Newcastle, 0 v West Brom, 0 @ Wigan)
Lindegaard: 16 (2 @ Southampton, 0 v Wigan, 1 @ Liverpool, 3 v Tottenham, 4 @ Chelsea COC, 1 @ Norwich, 1 @ Galatasaray CL, v QPR, 0 v West Ham, 3 @ Reading)
Lindegaard: 16 (2 @ Southampton, 0 v Wigan, 1 @ Liverpool, 3 v Tottenham, 4 @ Chelsea COC, 1 @ Norwich, 1 @ Galatasaray CL, v QPR, 0 v West Ham, 3 @ Reading)
Back 4
Valencia - Vidic - Carrick - Evra : 1 (1 @ Everton)
Valencia - Evans - Smalling - Evra : 1 (1 @ Braga CL)
Rafael - Vidic - Carrick - Evra : 2 (2 v Fulham)
Rafael - Vidic - Ferdinand - Evra : 2 (2 @ Southampton)
Rafael - Vidic - Ferdinand - Buttner : 0 ( 0 v Wigan)
Rafael - Vidic - Evans - Evra : 0 (0 vs Galatasaray CL)
Rafael - Evans - Ferdinand - Evra : 16 (1 @ Liverpool, 3 v Tottenham, 1 @ CFR Cluj CL, 0 @ Newcastle, 2 v Stoke, 2 @ Chelsea, 1 v Arsenal, 1 v QPR, 3 @ Reading, 2 @ Man City* (2 scored after Evans subbed off at Half for Smalling), 0 @ Wigan)
Rafael - Evans - Carrick - Buttner : 2 (2 v Braga CL)
Rafael - Wooton - Keane - Buttner: 4 (4 @ Chelsea COC* (4 scored after Buttner subbed off at Half for Fletcher))
Rafael - Smalling - Ferdinand - Evra : 3 (2 @ Aston Villa, 1 @ Norwich)
Rafael - Jones - Carrick - Buttner : 1 (1 @ Galatasaray CL)
Rafael - Evans - Smalling - Evra : 0 (0 v West Ham)
Jones - Smalling - Wooton - Buttner : 1 (1 @ CFR Cluj CL)
Jones - Smalling - Ferdinand - Evra : 1 (1 v Sunderland* (1 scored after Ferdinand was subbed off for Vidic)
Jones - Evans - Vidic - Evra : 1 (1 @ Swansea)
Smalling - Evans - Ferdinand - Evra : 3 (3 v Newcastle)
Smalling - Evans - Vidic - Evra : 0 (0 v West Brom)
Vermiji - Wooton - Keane - Buttner : 1 (1 v Newcastle COC)
Valencia - Evans - Smalling - Evra : 1 (1 @ Braga CL)
Rafael - Vidic - Carrick - Evra : 2 (2 v Fulham)
Rafael - Vidic - Ferdinand - Evra : 2 (2 @ Southampton)
Rafael - Vidic - Ferdinand - Buttner : 0 ( 0 v Wigan)
Rafael - Vidic - Evans - Evra : 0 (0 vs Galatasaray CL)
Rafael - Evans - Ferdinand - Evra : 16 (1 @ Liverpool, 3 v Tottenham, 1 @ CFR Cluj CL, 0 @ Newcastle, 2 v Stoke, 2 @ Chelsea, 1 v Arsenal, 1 v QPR, 3 @ Reading, 2 @ Man City* (2 scored after Evans subbed off at Half for Smalling), 0 @ Wigan)
Rafael - Evans - Carrick - Buttner : 2 (2 v Braga CL)
Rafael - Wooton - Keane - Buttner: 4 (4 @ Chelsea COC* (4 scored after Buttner subbed off at Half for Fletcher))
Rafael - Smalling - Ferdinand - Evra : 3 (2 @ Aston Villa, 1 @ Norwich)
Rafael - Jones - Carrick - Buttner : 1 (1 @ Galatasaray CL)
Rafael - Evans - Smalling - Evra : 0 (0 v West Ham)
Jones - Smalling - Wooton - Buttner : 1 (1 @ CFR Cluj CL)
Jones - Smalling - Ferdinand - Evra : 1 (1 v Sunderland* (1 scored after Ferdinand was subbed off for Vidic)
Jones - Evans - Vidic - Evra : 1 (1 @ Swansea)
Smalling - Evans - Ferdinand - Evra : 3 (3 v Newcastle)
Smalling - Evans - Vidic - Evra : 0 (0 v West Brom)
Vermiji - Wooton - Keane - Buttner : 1 (1 v Newcastle COC)
CB Pairing
Carrick/Vidic 3 (1 @ Everton, 2 v Fulham)
Vidic/Ferdinand 2 (2 @ Southampton, 0 v Wigan)
Vidic/ Evans 0 (0 v Galatasaray CL, 0 v West Brom)
Evans/ Ferdinand 19 (1 @ Liverpool, 3 v Tottenham, 1 @ CFR Cluj CL, 0 @ Newcastle, 2 v Stoke, 2 @ Chelsea, 1 v Arsenal, 1 v QPR, 3 @ Reading, 2 @ Man City, 3 v Newcastle, 0 @ Wigan)
Evans/Carrick 2 (2 v Braga CL))
Evans/Smalling 1 (1 @ Braga CL, 0 v West Ham)
Smalling/Ferdinand 4 (2 @ Aston Villa, 1 @ Norwich, 1 v Sunderland)
Smalling/Wooton 1 (1 @ CFR Cluj CL)
Jones/Carrick 1 (1 @ Galatasaray CL)
Wooton/Keane 5 (1 v Newcastle COC, 4 @ Chelsea COC)
Vidic/Ferdinand 2 (2 @ Southampton, 0 v Wigan)
Vidic/ Evans 0 (0 v Galatasaray CL, 0 v West Brom)
Evans/ Ferdinand 19 (1 @ Liverpool, 3 v Tottenham, 1 @ CFR Cluj CL, 0 @ Newcastle, 2 v Stoke, 2 @ Chelsea, 1 v Arsenal, 1 v QPR, 3 @ Reading, 2 @ Man City, 3 v Newcastle, 0 @ Wigan)
Evans/Carrick 2 (2 v Braga CL))
Evans/Smalling 1 (1 @ Braga CL, 0 v West Ham)
Smalling/Ferdinand 4 (2 @ Aston Villa, 1 @ Norwich, 1 v Sunderland)
Smalling/Wooton 1 (1 @ CFR Cluj CL)
Jones/Carrick 1 (1 @ Galatasaray CL)
Wooton/Keane 5 (1 v Newcastle COC, 4 @ Chelsea COC)
Most top teams in Europe play 3 centralish midfielders.
Carrick has a unique role. He generally has 1 partner or 1.5 if you count Rooney. I guess the wingers count a little but they usually have chalk on the boots.
Often Carrick is protecting the back 4 all on his own. This is United's style. We strayed away from this in the CQ years but are back to the swashbuckling wingers and 2 striker system.
We are leaking more goals, but are devastating going forward. I wouldn't blame the crazy amount of conceded goals on Carrick.
Carrick has a unique role. He generally has 1 partner or 1.5 if you count Rooney. I guess the wingers count a little but they usually have chalk on the boots.
Often Carrick is protecting the back 4 all on his own. This is United's style. We strayed away from this in the CQ years but are back to the swashbuckling wingers and 2 striker system.
We are leaking more goals, but are devastating going forward. I wouldn't blame the crazy amount of conceded goals on Carrick.
It's mainly been the Evans Rio combination because Evans plays the same kind of jockeying 'play read' CB role and doesn't step out to make challenges and if he does, he doesn't do it near as effective as an on form Vidic. This is where Carrick is supposed to offer support to the CB and make challenges in and around his CB's if one is not coming out and the other sweeping up.
The fact of the matter is that Carrick's defensive stats are down on more of the genuine DMC's in the PL at the moment and it is probably attributed to his extra support and more genuine threat going forward. Carrick has never been one to tear after players challenging everything and has never had much ability to track and read players going past him. It reminds me somewhat of Cleverley and Anderson last year, we got away with it because they are both genuinely mobile despite having near no defensive ability when compared with Carrick. I don't know what that is saying about Michael Carrick mind you..
The fact of the matter is that Carrick's defensive stats are down on more of the genuine DMC's in the PL at the moment and it is probably attributed to his extra support and more genuine threat going forward. Carrick has never been one to tear after players challenging everything and has never had much ability to track and read players going past him. It reminds me somewhat of Cleverley and Anderson last year, we got away with it because they are both genuinely mobile despite having near no defensive ability when compared with Carrick. I don't know what that is saying about Michael Carrick mind you..
I think you make a great point here. In all of Europe's top teams, I don't think any of Carrick's counterparts are left as exposed/unsupported in CM.
Good video. Him and van Persie seem to have a very good understanding.
I love the way his passing breaks the first and second presser nearly every time. Such pinpoint weight and accuracy on some of those balls to Rooney dropping deep.
Carrick is in a different class at the moment. This is hoping he plays a blinder against Liverpool on sunday. Resting him against the Hammers would make him fresh for the big match. What i am impressed about in the last 2 months is his passion to play the pass forward. The backward passes have reduced greatly and the vertical passes forward have been too drawer(Barcelonaesque) I decided to look up his stats and this was what i found......
Carrick is in a different class at the moment. This is hoping he plays a blinder against Liverpool on sunday. Resting him against the Hammers would make him fresh for the big match. What i am impressed about in the last 2 months is his passion to play the pass forward. The backward passes have reduced greatly and the vertical passes forward have been too drawer(Barcelonaesque) I decided to look up his stats and this was what i found......
Quite simply because he had Scholes next to him to do that.
From that video he could have had a bagful of assists some of the finishing had been a bit better, and he picks out RvPs runs really well.
I like Carrick. He quietly goes about his business and continues to grind out very good performances despite getting next to no credit for what he does (mainly outside of the club). Even some fans don't appreciate him. I'm sure I read somewhere that since November 2011 he had played almost every minute of every PL game for us (there were only 1 or 2 that he hasn't). That's impressive and shows how essential he is to the team.
He gets a bit of criticism for not being the all-tackling, swashbuckling DM we need but that isn't really his game, but it doesn't take from the fact that he carries out his role very well imo.
I like Carrick. He quietly goes about his business and continues to grind out very good performances despite getting next to no credit for what he does (mainly outside of the club). Even some fans don't appreciate him. I'm sure I read somewhere that since November 2011 he had played almost every minute of every PL game for us (there were only 1 or 2 that he hasn't). That's impressive and shows how essential he is to the team.
He gets a bit of criticism for not being the all-tackling, swashbuckling DM we need but that isn't really his game, but it doesn't take from the fact that he carries out his role very well imo.
Unfortunately he's struggled this season when put under pressure. I am hoping he plays well but in all honesty Liverpool are going to absolutely bum rush him and I don't know if he's going to be able to handle it.
Depends who you put alongside him. Cleverley relieves pressure by being hard to pin down and always available for a pass. On form, Rooney relieves pressure by pulling midfielders deeper into their own half to mark him. Anderson quickly gets them sitting back, because if they don't he does that little burst past them again and again. It's up to Fergie to work out who he wants where, and if he gets it right I can see Carrick taking their midfield apart.
Liverpool's midfielders are very well coached in applying constant pressure in the middle of the park, but none of them is Carrick's equal at the moment.