Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?

I think you all need to prepare yourselves for a decade of mediocrity. I am not sure where all this talk of Carrick being a good player or defensive midfielder is coming from. Perhaps you have spent the last 5 years convincing yourselves or have finally lost your minds.
Carrick is a poor midfielder. He is not a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder he is a poor midfielder. The length of this thread is testament to the fact that people are trying to convince themselves that he is any good.
Carrick is a player who sits deep because he needs time and space to pick a pass, he is not being defensive. The fact that the opposition run passed him as if he wasn't there should tell you that. We had a player like that, who was far better than Carrick will ever be, in Veron and that was deemed a failure.
Apparently Carrick had a great season? He was shit in Europe and shit against the league's top opposition. Scholes does the work of two men in midfield so this benefits Carrick and his game improves but he is really very poor.

The club is in major trouble. Ferguson is hanging on and god only knows when he will leave. A central midfielder is required for years and he is buying the likes of Bebe and Ashley Young. He needs to step aside and let a younger man take over before the other clubs tie up all the best young coaches.
Rooney, the clubs talisman and undroppable to the manager is a player who is good but not the 10 needed by the club and seems to be dependent entirely on Valencia for service. His best days are behind him and he is only 26. he scored a good few goals this season but his overall play has dropped dramatically.
Not one United player performed well at the Euros.
Is there a United player who is the best in his position in the league?
United has been poisonous to watch for about three years now
Park, Young, Ferdinand, Evra are all hugely unimpressive.

Big, big trouble ahead.
 
Lynott said:
I think you all need to prepare yourselves for a decade of mediocrity. I am not sure where all this talk of Carrick being a good player or defensive midfielder is coming from. Perhaps you have spent the last 5 years convincing yourselves or have finally lost your minds.
Carrick is a poor midfielder. He is not a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder he is a poor midfielder. The length of this thread is testament to the fact that people are trying to convince themselves that he is any good.
Carrick is a player who sits deep because he needs time and space to pick a pass, he is not being defensive. The fact that the opposition run passed him as if he wasn't there should tell you that. We had a player like that, who was far better than Carrick will ever be, in Veron and that was deemed a failure.
Apparently Carrick had a great season? He was shit in Europe and shit against the league's top opposition. Scholes does the work of two men in midfield so this benefits Carrick and his game improves but he is really very poor.

The club is in major trouble. Ferguson is hanging on and god only knows when he will leave. A central midfielder is required for years and he is buying the likes of Bebe and Ashley Young. He needs to step aside and let a younger man take over before the other clubs tie up all the best young coaches.
Rooney, the clubs talisman and undroppable to the manager is a player who is good but not the 10 needed by the club and seems to be dependent entirely on Valencia for service. His best days are behind him and he is only 26. he scored a good few goals this season but his overall play has dropped dramatically.
Not one United player performed well at the Euros.
Is there a United player who is the best in his position in the league?
United has been poisonous to watch for about three years now
Park, Young, Ferdinand, Evra are all hugely unimpressive.

Big, big trouble ahead.
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:lol:
 
Lynott said:
I think you all need to prepare yourselves for a decade of mediocrity. I am not sure where all this talk of Carrick being a good player or defensive midfielder is coming from. Perhaps you have spent the last 5 years convincing yourselves or have finally lost your minds.
Carrick is a poor midfielder. He is not a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder he is a poor midfielder. The length of this thread is testament to the fact that people are trying to convince themselves that he is any good.
Carrick is a player who sits deep because he needs time and space to pick a pass, he is not being defensive. The fact that the opposition run passed him as if he wasn't there should tell you that. We had a player like that, who was far better than Carrick will ever be, in Veron and that was deemed a failure.
Apparently Carrick had a great season? He was shit in Europe and shit against the league's top opposition. Scholes does the work of two men in midfield so this benefits Carrick and his game improves but he is really very poor.

The club is in major trouble. Ferguson is hanging on and god only knows when he will leave. A central midfielder is required for years and he is buying the likes of Bebe and Ashley Young. He needs to step aside and let a younger man take over before the other clubs tie up all the best young coaches.
Rooney, the clubs talisman and undroppable to the manager is a player who is good but not the 10 needed by the club and seems to be dependent entirely on Valencia for service. His best days are behind him and he is only 26. he scored a good few goals this season but his overall play has dropped dramatically.
Not one United player performed well at the Euros.
Is there a United player who is the best in his position in the league?
United has been poisonous to watch for about three years now
Park, Young, Ferdinand, Evra are all hugely unimpressive.

Big, big trouble ahead.
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::lol:
 
I'm always right said:
Actually, I'd have played Carrick and Parker holding with Gerrard advanced, and as the 2005 CL showed us, Gerrard can get the better of Pirlo in that position.

I personally think Carrick would've given England much better options.
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I think that could've worked and may have given England much more of a chance, but it has to be remembered that despite a couple of positive performances, Gerrard isn't the same player now that he wasn't back then. It may have given them a slightly better chance, but I'd have still expected Italy to win the game anyway.
 
Lynott said:
I think you all need to prepare yourselves for a decade of mediocrity. I am not sure where all this talk of Carrick being a good player or defensive midfielder is coming from. Perhaps you have spent the last 5 years convincing yourselves or have finally lost your minds.
Carrick is a poor midfielder. He is not a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder he is a poor midfielder. The length of this thread is testament to the fact that people are trying to convince themselves that he is any good.
Carrick is a player who sits deep because he needs time and space to pick a pass, he is not being defensive. The fact that the opposition run passed him as if he wasn't there should tell you that. We had a player like that, who was far better than Carrick will ever be, in Veron and that was deemed a failure.
Apparently Carrick had a great season? He was shit in Europe and shit against the league's top opposition. Scholes does the work of two men in midfield so this benefits Carrick and his game improves but he is really very poor.

The club is in major trouble. Ferguson is hanging on and god only knows when he will leave. A central midfielder is required for years and he is buying the likes of Bebe and Ashley Young. He needs to step aside and let a younger man take over before the other clubs tie up all the best young coaches.
Rooney, the clubs talisman and undroppable to the manager is a player who is good but not the 10 needed by the club and seems to be dependent entirely on Valencia for service. His best days are behind him and he is only 26. he scored a good few goals this season but his overall play has dropped dramatically.
Not one United player performed well at the Euros.
Is there a United player who is the best in his position in the league?
United has been poisonous to watch for about three years now
Park, Young, Ferdinand, Evra are all hugely unimpressive.

Big, big trouble ahead.
Click to expand...

Sack Fergie, sell Carrick?
 
Tomuś said:
This. If anything he is closer to Alonso and even that would be stretching it.
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No. Alonso attempts a lot of imaginative passes in comparison to Carrick.

Carrick is like Busquets. Use vision to intercept and play simple pass to the guy ahead.
 
his passing came be very incisive if not spectacular

not as good as alonso but not a kick on the ass off him based on last season's form

the main issue with carrick is that he lacks Alonso's confidence - he doesnt always try the difficult pass/shot when he really should

carrick isnt aware of how good he actually is/can be in my view
 
Exactly, he is capable of playing incisive passes but for some reason often refrains from doing so.

It's wierd because we all know he has an expansive passing range, due to the odd direct ball he'll play in some games, but too often he just plays in short and maintains possession.

Maybe that's what he's been told to do by Fergie, or alternatively buckooo's point about lacking confidence might have some substance. It's definitely something he should look to expand on, at the moment he's too often not making the most of his talent, which can be frustrating.
 
Lynott said:
I think you all need to prepare yourselves for a decade of mediocrity. I am not sure where all this talk of Carrick being a good player or defensive midfielder is coming from. Perhaps you have spent the last 5 years convincing yourselves or have finally lost your minds.
Carrick is a poor midfielder. He is not a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder he is a poor midfielder. The length of this thread is testament to the fact that people are trying to convince themselves that he is any good.
Carrick is a player who sits deep because he needs time and space to pick a pass, he is not being defensive. The fact that the opposition run passed him as if he wasn't there should tell you that. We had a player like that, who was far better than Carrick will ever be, in Veron and that was deemed a failure.
Apparently Carrick had a great season? He was shit in Europe and shit against the league's top opposition. Scholes does the work of two men in midfield so this benefits Carrick and his game improves but he is really very poor.

The club is in major trouble. Ferguson is hanging on and god only knows when he will leave. A central midfielder is required for years and he is buying the likes of Bebe and Ashley Young. He needs to step aside and let a younger man take over before the other clubs tie up all the best young coaches.
Rooney, the clubs talisman and undroppable to the manager is a player who is good but not the 10 needed by the club and seems to be dependent entirely on Valencia for service. His best days are behind him and he is only 26. he scored a good few goals this season but his overall play has dropped dramatically.
Not one United player performed well at the Euros.
Is there a United player who is the best in his position in the league?
United has been poisonous to watch for about three years nowPark, Young, Ferdinand, Evra are all hugely unimpressive.

Big, big trouble ahead.
Click to expand...

tumblr_lwp6izQu0H1qcfh47.jpg
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
No. Alonso attempts a lot of imaginative passes in comparison to Carrick.

Carrick is like Busquets. Use vision to intercept and play simple pass to the guy ahead.
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Which doesn't mean he is not closer to Alonso than he is to Pirlo. Carrick has those imaginative passes in him, but doesn't try them too often. Most probably isn't as good as Alonso at them, as well, who himself isn't Pirlo or Scholes.
 
How can people say he would not have made a difference? England couldn't string 3 passes together against Italy and having Carrick in the side would have gone a long way to solve that. You need a solid base to build an attack on and having Parker chasing around the field like a dog is not the answer. Not saying that Carrick would have led England to victory but they would have had a damn better chance than that crap yesterday.
 
askabob said:
How can people say he would not have made a difference? England couldn't string 3 passes together against Italy and having Carrick in the side would have gone a long way to solve that. You need a solid base to build an attack on and having Parker chasing around the field like a dog is not the answer. Not saying that Carrick would have led England to victory but they would have had a damn better chance than that crap yesterday.
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A lot of their problems weren't that they couldn't string passes together, it was that they didn't have enough of the ball to do so for long periods of time. He's a very good central midfielder, but he's not one on the level of a player like Xavi whose presence in the midfield will completely change the complexion of a game, especially when the other team are completely dominant.
 
One of the worst posts I have ever read but he didn't get banned for that did he?

He's just rolled all the bad day thoughts into one great big clusterfeck but no harm to anyone but himself from what I've seen.
 
DFreshKing said:
One of the worst posts I have ever read but he didn't get banned for that did he?

He's just rolled all the bad day thoughts into one great big clusterfeck but no harm to anyone but himself from what I've seen.
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I looked at some of his posts when I saw he was banned and he's no great loss. Half of them seemed to be giving the Irish national team an obscene amount of criticism to bait their fans. He won't be missed really.
 
Cheesy said:
I looked at some of his posts when I saw he was banned and he's no great loss. Half of them seemed to be giving the Irish national team an obscene amount of criticism to bait their fans. He won't be missed really.
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I dunno, that was quite a well written "Sack Fergie, Sell Carrick" post. Comedy gold! I just feel like we have banished the village idiot :(
 
Carrick is a very good player for us, but his one weakness for United would've been the same for England; he struggles when he is pressed. At United, there have been very few instances of him being pressed by the opposition, and the few times that it has happened, Carrick as well as others have looked poor.

You put Carrick in instead of Parker against the same opposition in this tournament, Carrick would struggle as well and he'd have idiots screaming for his head for not running around like a headless chicken.
 
Carrick isn't that bad when pressed, it depends who he's with and the tactics. Play a 442 like we did then most players will struggle when pressed as high as a barca. Big difference between England and spain, or united/barca is that when one of them gets the ball they have a number of team mates nearby for a quick pass, they progress the attack slowly. England have playes staggered about in rigid players, forcing them to have to try longer passes and not giving them a number of options when they're pressed.

But more specifically about the tournament and England in general, the midfielders were doing what I think played a big part in our failures on the ball was that when they received the ball they were always moving back to our goal, or turned to face it. Players like Carrick, Scholes etc are happy to let the ball run pass them and then look up for a forward pass or if they have it quickly release it to relieve the pressure.

As I said before the tactics play a big part and the lack of movement as well. Personally I don't think you could swap out Parker or Gerrard and put in Carrick or Scholes or Pirlo and completely change it because tactically it was just wrong. The players are just too far apart and the players are just too rigid. The players don't move. You don't see Milner making a run across the pitch dragging his man out of position. Or if he does do it he's not good enough on the ball to produce something. When Scholes sprays the ball out for us if it falls to Nani or Valencia we know they can beat their man and put in a ball. Milner and Young, and all our main wingers are so variable in their delivery, if they even put it in.

I think we need an overhaul. One player can't change it, tactically it needs to change and the player types we look to need to change. Carrick has a role he can play in that but it depends on his own personal stance and whether Hodgson will want him. I have a feeling that most the older players, whether they played or not will be disgarded.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Now there's a just banning if I've ever seen one.
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Seriously? Somone should be banned for having an opinion different to the norm, all be it extremely different. Analyze the post, and some of the comments have a grain of truth to them. Even if they didn't it's just an opinion.

'Kin thought Nazis.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Seriously? Somone should be banned for having an opinion different to the norm, all be it extremely different. Analyze the post, and some of the comments have a grain of truth to them. Even if they didn't it's just an opinion.

'Kin thought Nazis.
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I was mainly joking in fairness. I have no idea why he was actually banned... but I'd never seriously advocate anyone being banned, as it's not my place or business really.

I do suspect that post is a bit of a WUM though... I mean, "United has been poisonous to watch for about three years now"? On any level, that can't be a serious view... and if it is, it's misguided in the extreme.
 
Ash_G said:
As I said before the tactics play a big part and the lack of movement as well. Personally I don't think you could swap out Parker or Gerrard and put in Carrick or Scholes or Pirlo and completely change it because tactically it was just wrong....

...I think we need an overhaul. One player can't change it, tactically it needs to change and the player types we look to need to change. Carrick has a role he can play in that but it depends on his own personal stance and whether Hodgson will want him. I have a feeling that most the older players, whether they played or not will be disgarded.
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I cut out some of it because I just want to react to this point. It is absolutely true that one man will not change most of the problems - but leaving Carrick home and regarding him as 5th or 6th choice shows a certain way of thinking that, in my opinion, holds back the England team.

That a player like Michael Carrick has no place in the England squad is basically a symptom. Unless the England managers learn to trust players of his ilk, it will always be the same old. Calling him up won't make England world beaters but preferring the Scott Parkers over the Michael Carricks will forever doom the England team to mediocrity.
 
Siorac said:
I cut out some of it because I just want to react to this point. It is absolutely true that one man will not change most of the problems - but leaving Carrick home and regarding him as 5th or 6th choice shows a certain way of thinking that, in my opinion, holds back the England team.

That a player like Michael Carrick has no place in the England squad is basically a symptom. Unless the England managers learn to trust players of his ilk, it will always be the same old. Calling him up won't make England world beaters but preferring the Scott Parkers over the Michael Carricks will forever doom the England team to mediocrity.
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Didn't Carrick refuse to be a part of the England setup if he was going to start on the bench?
 
Lynott said:
Didn't Carrick refuse to be a part of the England setup if he was going to start on the bench?
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Under Capello he said this because he went all the way to South Africa and never even played a minute. For a player who is approaching his 30s, that is a lot to ask if he has to train and not even get a minute given England's dire showing at the WC. It takes away from time with his growing kids and it means he does not get a much-needed rest before the club season.

In any case, he said that he went into retirement as long as Capello was manager. Hodgson knew this and it was his fault to assume that Carrick would stay in retirement. Had he called Carrick personally and told him he would play a role in the Euros, Carrick would have come out of retirement.
 
Siorac said:
I cut out some of it because I just want to react to this point. It is absolutely true that one man will not change most of the problems - but leaving Carrick home and regarding him as 5th or 6th choice shows a certain way of thinking that, in my opinion, holds back the England team.

That a player like Michael Carrick has no place in the England squad is basically a symptom. Unless the England managers learn to trust players of his ilk, it will always be the same old. Calling him up won't make England world beaters but preferring the Scott Parkers over the Michael Carricks will forever doom the England team to mediocrity.
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Yeah that's part of the point I was making really. We need to change our approach, our tactics and the players we value. We don't know for certain what carricks stance was with hodgson, whether it applied to capello or not etc. but assuming he didn't want to go to be a sub then I think hodgson made the mistake of not planning for him to be in the first 11. After the season he had he should have been an automatic but I think hogdson was set on Parker and gerrard and for me that wasn't a good combo and personally i think it failed.

But like I said carrick alone won't make a difference, neither will wilshere etc. we need a change in mentality and a better balance between talent and work rate because we've not got that.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I was mainly joking in fairness. I have no idea why he was actually banned... but I'd never seriously advocate anyone being banned, as it's not my place or business really.

I do suspect that post is a bit of a WUM though... I mean, "United has been poisonous to watch for about three years now"? On any level, that can't be a serious view... and if it is, it's misguided in the extreme.
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Fair play.

To be honest, I think that since Ronaldo left the football we have been playing in general has been pretty poor to watch. I would go as extreme as Lynott though.
 
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