Cheers mate I agree. This is one of those topics I feel quite strongly about. It's a shame really for Carrick, although he never really will get much praise from the press I think people were just starting to notice him a bit more and then Scholes's return has completely shifted the focus away from Carrick and on to scholes. I mean I love having him back but I feel a bit bad for Carrick. But oh well I think the majority of fans can now see how good he is and also judging from scholes's comments the players rate him.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
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Cheers mate I agree. This is one of those topics I feel quite strongly about. It's a shame really for Carrick, although he never really will get much praise from the press I think people were just starting to notice him a bit more and then Scholes's return has completely shifted the focus away from Carrick and on to scholes. I mean I love having him back but I feel a bit bad for Carrick. But oh well I think the majority of fans can now see how good he is and also judging from scholes's comments the players rate him.
I see where you're coming from re Scholes, but I don't think Carrick is the type that minds being taken out of the spotlight! What I like since Scholes's return is that Carrick is still taking the mantle in terms of dictating our play - formally when they played together, Carrick would defer to Scholes.
Too many class players rate Carrick for it to be lip-service. Scholes, Ferdinand, Xavi, Xabi Alonso, etc. He really is a terrific player.
I don't think Silva would manage to operate in a central midfield role. At the moment, he's in a role where he can play freely behind the frontline and not have to worry about holding position or anything like that.
It's very different in the central midfield. You can still play quite freely, but you're a lot more restricted and have to be able to hold position. I'm not sure if Silva would be able to do that. By restricting Silva's movement, you're restricting him as an overall player. There's no doubt that he has the passing ability to play in the centre of midfield, but it's whether the rest of his game would be suited to it. I'm not sure if it would be.
This seems to be what happens when people talk about who would work well in our midfield though. They just look at any player who is remotely a midfielder, without thinking of whether they would slot into our system or not. Silva may be a far superior player to Carrick, and Sneijder probably is when he performs, but the thing is that neither of them are out and out central midfielders. Carrick is, and he's been a very good one at that this season.
It's very different in the central midfield. You can still play quite freely, but you're a lot more restricted and have to be able to hold position. I'm not sure if Silva would be able to do that. By restricting Silva's movement, you're restricting him as an overall player. There's no doubt that he has the passing ability to play in the centre of midfield, but it's whether the rest of his game would be suited to it. I'm not sure if it would be.
This seems to be what happens when people talk about who would work well in our midfield though. They just look at any player who is remotely a midfielder, without thinking of whether they would slot into our system or not. Silva may be a far superior player to Carrick, and Sneijder probably is when he performs, but the thing is that neither of them are out and out central midfielders. Carrick is, and he's been a very good one at that this season.
We've played the likes of Rooney, Park, Giggs, Jones.. in midfield. I think Silva or Sneijder wouldn't have any problems adjusting.
We have played plenty of those players in midfield, but the question is, have all of them really adjusted to that midfield role at all? Probably not.
Rooney played well in his midfield role, but there's no doubt that there were noticeable problems that came with a lack of experience. Because he was playing further back, I felt that he sometimes looked as if he was too restricted. He felt as if he couldn't go forward at all, when in reality, Rooney ability to pick up the ball, turn defence to attack, and surge forward is one of the best assets to his game.
Park is more of a player who's slotted into the centre of midfield when need be. That's just the sort of player he is. What he lacks in ability he makes up for in effort. If you asked the guy to play in goal, he'd still put in a shift.
Jones has looked promising in midfield, and is a rolls royce of a player, however there's no doubt that the technical aspect of his game is lacking in the midfield. He'd be exposed against a passing team like Barcelona whose midfield rely on their passing ability and retention of the ball.
What's the point of spending £20-30m on a Silva or Sneijder and then shoehorning them into a position where you're not going to get the best out of them and more than likely unbalance the rest of the side?
I don't feel Giggs deserved to be in that list.
As far as I'm concerned, we're not having to 'resort' to selecting Giggs in central midfield - he does a bloody brilliant job. If we look past the notion that he 'should' be slowing down some time soon, and just gauge his performance levels, he's still one of the top players around.
Silva/Sneijder wouldn't have any problems adjusting, but it'd only be at the expense of one of the wingers/strikers - in form, Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck, Nani and Valencia are all more than worth a place in our team. Truly don't believe Silva/Sneijder are the sorts of players we need.
We need central midfielders, those that work the length of the pitch - hopefully we can develop these in house: Cleverley, Anderson, Pogba.
Carrick is the thinking man's footballer.
It is disheartening that many of our fans cannot even praise him when he is in such magisterial form as he is currently, but perhaps this is unsurprising.
And of the Premier League's central midfielders, only Modrić has been statistically better this season. Premier League - Player Statistics
It is disheartening that many of our fans cannot even praise him when he is in such magisterial form as he is currently, but perhaps this is unsurprising.
And of the Premier League's central midfielders, only Modrić has been statistically better this season. Premier League - Player Statistics
Oh yeah I'm sure Carrick is happier to have him back more than he minds loosing out on his thunder, but it's always nice to get some appreciation.
But yeah I agree completely about Carrick in the past deferring to scholes and Fletcher afterwards. It's good to see now that he's playing his game regardless of his partner.
I'm saying that's there's no basis for suggesting the likes of Silva or Sneijder can't play in our midfield.
Though I may be wrong, I don't think one person has suggested that.
When people say he can't play in centre mid it's not about whether they actually can or not it's whether it'd be allowing them to play to their best abilities. Most players in our team could realistically play in every position on the pitch reasonably well if you want to be pedantic. Every single one of those players you named have relished the defensive side of the game - do Silva or Sneijder? I don't believe so, it's a hindrance to their game to have that kind of responsibility. Silva simply wouldn't play centre mid because it would take so much away from his game.
I didn't mean it that way as I did for the others. Given his previous history as a winger, and seeing how he's adapted into a central midfielder, I think Silva and Sneijder could play in a similar role.
I'd rather get Modric than Silva/Sneijder for sure. And I think Cleverley will make the grade eventually (jury still out on Anderson and Pogba IMO). A backup midfielder wouldn't be too bad though.
It's not that they can't play midfield, but that you wouldn't see the same performances from them if they did. Do you think they could play the same way? No of course they couldn't. Silva's game is primarily about what he does in and around the box, free of defensive responsibilities. If you put him in a two man central midfield he has to play a lot deeper which means his involvement is going to be different. Then add the much greater defensive responsibility that that roles entails as well. When you think of the likes of Rooney, park, Jones, who have played there for us, aside from the point that we wouldn't play them there on a consistent basis, they're all players with great workrates. Berbatov has as much passing and technical ability to play central midfield as Rooney does, but Rooney would be so much better there because of his engine and willingness to track back.
I'm sure they could play there but their effect on the game would be greatly changed. Also i'm not sure how well either would cope playing in a two against a three as our midfielders usually have to do on a regular basis.
Exactly, you wouldn't want to blunt Silva's attacking threat by asking him to be anchored in the middle of the field.
We'd have been okay in terms of numbers if Fletcher was fully fit. I kind of agree that we're a little short without him, but I wouldn't like to see us go down the City route of bringing a mercenary in on a short deal - Pizarro/Vieira. It'll stand us in better stead to play Cleverley, Anderson, Pogba and even Jones.
Silva is strangely good defensively.
Giggs has always had a fantastic workrate though and a willingness to get stuck in, that's definitely helped him in converting to a midfielder on a regular basis.
It's one thing doing the odd bit of tracking and closing, and quite another being in the thick of it for 90+ minutes.
Clearly, Silva doesn't have the inclination to play as a central midfielder.
Yep, best example I can think of is nasri who to me has always seemed a decently hard working player. Even this season in City's bold new approach and during the time when they were low on centre mids I don't think he ever considered having Barry/Toure holding and Nasri in the middle alongside one of them. Now I'm sure that they could get away with it for one game but mancini appears to not think so. He could be wrong, but I think on a consistent basis he'd struggle. Similarly you never saw Nasri and Fabregas play in the centre for Arsenal. I don't even think they tried playing both of them in a three at the same time.
I know where you're coming from, however when signing these players, you've also got to think of the transfer fees. We'd be paying over £30m in each case for players who wouldn't even be played in their best positions. As well as that, by playing them out of position, you restrict their ability to get forward as often as they'd like to.
That's fair enough.
Sorry but what are you on about? The earlier question was to name 10 midfielders who are better than Carrick, not 10 midfielders who play the exact same role as he does in midfield. Silva, Sneijder, Toure are all considered central midfielders, that's just a fact. I never for a second claimed they were the same type of player Carrick is.
I named one better midfielder because you told me to name one better midfielder
I honestly don't know what the point of your last paragraph is seeing as I haven't mentioned swapping him or getting rid of him etc?
I think we also need to take into consideration just how great our attacking players are at tracking back and helping out our midfield. Nani has improved a lot in this aspect, Rooney has always put in a defensive shift, Welbeck is probably the hardest working player we have and Valencia offers great protection for our fullback. On paper you wouldn't think we would be able to get away with playing an ageing Scholes and Giggs with Carrick in a "two" but it works, and even in the big games.
Sorry but what are you on about? The earlier question was to name 10 midfielders who are better than Carrick, not 10 midfielders who play the exact same role as he does in midfield. Silva, Sneijder, Toure are all considered central midfielders, that's just a fact. I never for a second claimed they were the same type of player Carrick is.
I named one better midfielder because you told me to name one better midfielder
I honestly don't know what the point of your last paragraph is seeing as I haven't mentioned swapping him or getting rid of him etc?
None of the players you named are better central midfielders than Carrick.
Simple enough?
I'm not so sure about that. Toure is probably better than Carrick as a central midfielder in all honesty.
Well at least you've just said that as opposed to claiming they're not actually central midfielders. How you can consider Carrick to be as good as Toure however, is beyond me.
He's also far from being as good as Silva but I PRESUME you're using the words "central midfielder" strongly here.
I really don't understand the Toure love in. He is an excellent player but I really don't think he's a cut above. His power makes him stand out I guess. Whenever I see him though I've never thought he looks better than Carrick/Fletcher personally.
It's not a fact that Silva's a centre mid, it's highly contestable. There's plenty of reason to call him an attacker rather than a midfielder.
The only player I said wasn't a central midfielder is Silva - he isn't.
It may be stylistic bias, but I just don't rate Toure as highly as some. No denying he's a very good player though.
Sneijder is massively overrated.
Modric is one of the best central midfielders in the PL, a select band that Carrick also occupies.
Toure's stamina is also questionable - another reason I tend to rate him less. He flags post 70 mins quite badly.
I think they're both better than one another at different things. A player like Carrick will help control a game in an understated manner, whereas Toure will impact proceedings explosively but intermittently. I prefer Carrick's qualities in a CM.
Toure completes 20% more passes per game on average than Carrick, with an equal 90% success rate. So how does Carrick control the game in an understated manner, but Toure does not?
If you watch any of City’s games you’ll see that he consistently gets on the ball more than any other player.
The average fan wants goals, assists, and slide tackles.
Carrick doesn`t supply these in abundance.
So then you get people that say he is shit.
But in reality, Carrick has played a significant part in too many wins to not be considered a great player.
Carrick doesn`t supply these in abundance.
So then you get people that say he is shit.
But in reality, Carrick has played a significant part in too many wins to not be considered a great player.
That is rubbish.
Totally inaccurate. Yaya was only moved out at Barca he wanted to move. Guardiola publicly confirmed this when stated he had wanted Toure to stay but Yaya wanted to move on so he had to turn to Busquets.
Indeed. Some people just love to see what they want. Only the truly blinkered can believe Carrick is a superior player to Yaya Toure.
No one should feel bad for Carrick. It was his own darn fault he was given stick for the last 2 seasons. Because he was real shit compared to his real form that he is showing now.
Yet Toure himself claimed that Guardiola froze him out and spoke of a lack of faith and communication.
I think Carrick and Toure are different players in that Toure is more attacking, atleast in this Manchester City team. Both are equally fantastic players but my personal preference would be for Carrick.
Toure is better than Carrick. He's a very complete footballer. He can defend well, is excellent on the ball and drives forward superbly. He's even excelled at times as a centre back for barcelona hasnt he?
People always go overboard with Carrick. Either hes shit or he's one of the best. He's neither. A bit like fletcher when he wasn't ill. A good solid midfielder who is a cut below the best but good all the same.
People always go overboard with Carrick. Either hes shit or he's one of the best. He's neither. A bit like fletcher when he wasn't ill. A good solid midfielder who is a cut below the best but good all the same.
Of course he would. Ever heard a player say he was the one who jumped ship to join a money bags side when the club still wanted him? Especially a club as successful as Barca was at the time? He didn't want to come across as a mercenary for deciding to go to City.
I also believed him until I watched Guardiola's interview in which he was asked about his African players.
That is okay. But people should not lie to us that Carrick is the superior player. He simply isn't.
Not really what I was saying tbh. My point was that in the last few months that it just seemed be was starting to get noticed by pundits etc but then scholes returned and everyone is talking about him. Hence why people are talking about scholes for england but no ones mentioned carrick for England.