Ok right now I don't think busquets is playing any better than carrick.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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Ok right now I don't think busquets is playing any better than carrick.
Neither does Busquets, and no it doesn't. If anything not having a Xavi beside him presents Carrick with more opportunities to show how good he is.
the last 2 months, probably not. The last 2 years since he broke into the team, most definitely.
This season he is playing like his authentic self. I tried to tell this to people on here for ages that he is more than the pseudo Makekele clone we had for a season and a half before now but all I got were pathetic excuses like its his partners that are wrong and its the instructions he is given.
Iniesta is very defensively savvy tbf
I actually phrased that wrong, I meant that as a response to him saying "Carricks role isn't purely as an interceptorl though that's the point". Neither IS Busquets.
We not really. Having xavi who's still at the top of his game and able to be hugely influential helps barca to retain the ball and surely makes busquets job a but easier? Where as carrick is either playing with scholes who has never seen defensively great or other players who are neither similar to xavi or anywhere near his class. That's not to say busquets isn't doing a great job because he is but I think carrick has a lot more pressure on him as he is really the only one in the squad bar fletcher capable of being an effective ball winner in the middle.
Carrick is basically our mean midfielder so he has more opportunities to show himself and play the ball forward than Busquets, who is more retricted at times because of how good Xavi and Iniesta are.
Who has been the consistently better player in the last 2 years? Honestly now...
Can see why it was confusing. I'd agree that Carrick and Song are clearly the better passers but they're also more combative and physical than Carrick and more disciplined and positionally sound than Song so I think it evens itself out to a degree. I don't think Parker's in the same class, nowhere near as positionally sound as Sandro, Mascherano and co. nor as good a passer as Carrick and co. Thing is Mascherano excels at a specialised position whereas Parker's just turned into a hussling bussling midfielder because he couldn't cut it as a more attacking midfield player at the top level (he was quite good there at Charlton). Mascherano has excelled as a centre back because he genuinely is very defensively aware, even Carrick has played well there for the same reason. I think Parker'd look a bit clueless because he's not all that and he doesn't have enough outside of his defence game to make up for that.
I'd say it'd go Carrick, Song, Lucas, Barry and then Sandro but I just think there's so little difference between them all that someone could quite easily put the same list in a completely different order and I wouldn't find it controversial.
Aren't only 2 or 3 doing the same now?
Silva's played in behind the striker or on the wing, I think he's more comparable to Ribery than Xavi. He's an attacker rather than a midfielder for me.
I never said that carrick has been great over the last couple of seasons. I think for the past few seasons he's been playing within himself. But right now and really since the second half of last season so basically a year he's performing at the level I would expect of him. Has he been playing as well as busquets over the last few seasons? No. Never said he has. But for this last year he has and either way it doesn't mean he's not as talented. Right now though I don't think there's anything between them.
That'll do. Cya
Not really what we were debating about or at least what I thought we were but fair enough.
you're arguing with someone who says Cleverley isnt creative. nuff said
Nuff said? Do you disagree with what I'm saying here?
Adding pointless, unrelated stuff to a thread, you're a fecking Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
Carrick's done a better job than people reckon imo. Fergie's made him stay back despite him having a decent shot. Just need to teach Nani how to cross and Valencia how to use his left foot and it's cocks out all round
saying 'that'll do cya' is arguably pointless too. you might as well not say anything. seems like youre also susceptible to the odd wind-up
saying 'that'll do cya' is arguably pointless too. you might as well not say anything. seems like youre also susceptible to the odd wind-up
Not at all. I knew it was a wind up. You're an idiot for posting bollocks like that in this thread really.
I agree with that. Although I'm seeing a level of authority greater than what I have seen from him in the past. Maybe it's a case of him being forced into being a more prominent midfielder with Scholes retiring (when he had) and Fletcher falling ill, but I do see a difference in him now. But I'd like to see it for longer.
And I know people claimed that was the player he was which was untrue. He was basically playing very poorly rather than anything else. Besides, let's be honest, Makelele might have been limited but he was amazing at what he did and even that version of Carrick that offered only screening of the defense (which was basically him in poor form) was nowhere near as good defensively as Makelele, because he's not that kind of player.
saying 'that'll do cya' is arguably pointless too. you might as well not say anything. seems like youre also susceptible to the odd wind-up
I rate this come-back
The bolded bit there, that is the thing though. Carrick was emulating Makelele because he was in awful form. But it was a crime to point it out on here. Stats and other silly excuses were constantly dragged out to ok his rubbish form. The Carrick we signed in 2006/2007 helpd us win the league and the champions league due to the form we are seeing now. His true form. It didn't matter who we played alongside him because he was just top draw. At his best he is a dictator of play and creator of it. Not a metronomic player like Makelele.
But the one we had since the middle of 2009 till mid last season was a total imposter.
That is why I often want to tear my hair out when I hear people complaining that Barry or Parker are picked ahead of him as battling atter carriers. Frankly, he is too good for that role. At United we play him there for the same reason Barca played Yaya Toure in that role. He is the best defensively of all our offensive midfielders. Carrick's true role has always been that of the deep lying play maker. The one Pirlo and Xabi Alonso occupy at their clubs. So even for an England his only real competition can be Wilshere. Not a Barry or a Parker.
i'm not sure why you're calling me an idiot. not really getting you anywhere. my point was why bring up a point that isn't really a point at all? Hence why you might as well have said nothing.
i also find it interesting that you call it bollocks because it does not suit you. trying to make something objective out of a subjective situation
i'm not sure why you're calling me an idiot. not really getting you anywhere. my point was why bring up a point that isn't really a point at all? Hence why you might as well have said nothing.
i also find it interesting that you call it bollocks because it does not suit you. trying to make something objective out of a subjective situation
Your point? My point was that he basically agreed Busquests has been a better player than Carrick for 3 years, which completely goes in hand with the fact that he's a better player (despite being far younger) and therefore kinda reenforces the point, no? My response was blunt but it spoke for itself, there was no point in continuing the debate because he was refusing to acknowledge these things no matter what. I really don't know what the 'point' of yours was other than to have a dig. There was nothing in it to suggest it was a reference to what I said. No need.
And all i'm saying is that it wasn't necessary. The same message would have been conveyed if you didn't respond. The reason i made the dig was to highlight this.
But the dig had no relevance to what i said.
Anyway, hardly the thread to be arguing such whimsical things.
Cya
Anyway, hardly the thread to be arguing such whimsical things.
Cya
But the dig had no relevance to what i said.
Anyway, hardly the thread to be arguing such whimsical things.
Cya
your argument, no. your short reply, yes. anyway, g'day mate.
Is it just me or has his control in tight spaces improved immeasurably? I remember he would often be clumsy in tight spaces but he's become excellent a maneuvering out of them these days. That feint around 68' where he dummied and let the Ajax player run through was so clever. Carrick is simply oozing class and confidence right now.
Another great performance from him tonight. As per usual. Our most consistently brilliant player since the start of the season. I love this Carrick.
Ai
He wasn't even in the team at start of season.
I was wondering who'd be the first to point that out.
He's definitely been our most consistent over the course of the season, especially when you consider other than Evra - pretty much everyone has been out of the squad for a period of time.
He wasn't even in the team at start of season.
Meh, I meant he's been the most consistent out of everyone this season as a whole - when played of course
I jest mate...
He's been absolutely vital for us this season with all the injuries United have suffered. We'd have been struggling to be in the top 4 had he got injured.
I'm increasingly fecking terrified about how one man has become so critical to our season as a whole.
So you can't be playing below your level then? Right now I think a lot of people would say Parker is playing better than gerrard, does that make him a better player? As far as I'm concerned up to the second half of last season carrick was playing within himself. I never thought he was playing poorly as i'm sure others did but simply he wasnt playing at the level he should be, the level he was when he joined and the level he has been for the past year. He has moments but that was all. This last year though he's been playing at the level I expect, not just on form but the level he's capable off. And to me right now busquets is no better. Busquets was doing better in that period beforehand but now carrick is back to his best I don't think he is playing any better.
I've said it before, he's the most important player to our team bar none. Forget Nani, Rooney, Vidic etc; Carrick is the one. Nobody else in our squad can bring what he does to the team.
That's more a reflection on the state of our midfield though, rather than Carricks ability as a player. The three you mentioned are all better players than him, but play in positions with better cover.
I'd still say Rooney is our most important player though, different team without him.
Yes, which makes him the most important player not the best one. We do not have another player that can do what he does. If he gest injured, we'l be truly fecked. the same cannot be said of rooney or nani.
Well you're right that nani and Rooney are our best players, If they're playing well and in the right areas then they push us up another level. But right now I think more damage would be done if carrick was out for a spell as opposed to Rooney or nani. We might not play as well without those two but we could win as we have players who can come in and do their roles. But with fletcher out we only have carrick who can be relied on as a disciplined midfielder, coupled with no vidic that could leave us open in the middle as we've seen before this season.
Not really. He was well below par for a long time in the last couple of seasons and yet we won the championship and made it to the CL final
He and Giggs were along with Rooney probably the main reason behind us reaching that CL final you speak about.
And his defensive contribution to the team is always top notch. Without him we're exposed in central areas, since we doesn't really have another midfielder who does the covering job so well.
Of course, it's a joy when he's on song with his passing, and I do believe he's finally started to relish the responsibility as the senior figure in our midfield, the leader of the midfield.
He's got ability, and perhaps he's starting to grow the proverbial balls to go along with it. Ferguson did say it was time for him to be the pivot of the team, perhaps that's what he's trying to do.
Sensational form this season.
Eh? Which players do we have that can do what Rooney does?
As for being 'truly fecked', we beat Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea at the start of the season without him starting, and played excellent football in the process.
Edit - This isn't to say Carrick isn't a great player and in fantastic form, just that you're going over the top in labelling him the most important member of the team, it's so kneejerk considering the past few underwhelming years he's had.