African Teams - WC2014

Cal? said:
So with the exception of Kawashima gifting Cote D'Ivoire a win, was I so wrong about African teams not being very good?
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Nope. Ivory coast more than deserved their win against fan favourite Japan, some revisionism going on over Ivory coast, they were very good in possession and Bony could of had 4.

Forgot Algeria, they did ok and can still get through. The rest of the African teams can hang there heads in shame.
 
Ivory Coast the best bet right now. Ghana still look the best side but their loss will see them out.
 
African football is improving, just because two out of four have been utterly shite does not mean the whole continent's football is terrible. Look at Spain and Portugal, two european sides who have some of the best teams in the tournament - I know Portugal hasn't got the best side in recent years but they have a good squad - Spain knocked out, Portugal defeated 4 nil by Germany. Its not so simple. Japan were poor.
 
Very disappointing so far, although i have moderate hopes for Algeria and Ivory Coast to go through.
 
Darkziro said:
Nope. Ivory coast more than deserved their win against fan favourite Japan, some revisionism going on over Ivory coast, they were very good in possession and Bony could of had 4.

Forgot Algeria, they did ok and can still get through. The rest of the African teams can hang there heads in shame.
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But Bony didn't score all those chances did he? In the end they needed a calamitous goalkeeping error to win that game.

Anyway, this isn't about whether Cote D'Ivoire deserved their win, they did win. It's about how the average African side isn't very good.
 
Not a big fan of African teams. Not being racist, but a lot of their players seem money orientated rather than playing for their countries. Understandable as quite a few came from poor backgrounds. But you would think they give it their all.

But the Cameroon stuff with bonus and flag was silly.
 
Bojan11 said:
Not a big fan of African teams. Not being racist, but a lot of their players seem money orientated rather than playing for their countries. Understandable as quite a few came from poor backgrounds. But you would think they give it their all.

But the Cameroon stuff with bonus and flag was silly.
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Pretty much this. You can't come out there at the World Cup and then let petty stuff ruin years of effort to get there. That Cameroon team is the lowest of the low in my years of watching World Cups.
 
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The African sides are regressing. I didn't expect anything from Cameroon because of the quality of their players. Eto'o is a poacher at this stage in his career he can't be expected to carry a team. The rest are nothing special.

Nigeria even though they are African Champions are another poor side. They lack top quality players like sides of old. I didn't bother to watch them because I knew they would be dull and struggle to score. Odemwingie their best attacker is not favoured by Keshi. I think they should have brought Yakubu instead of Ameobi.

Ivory Coast disappointed at a time when their golden generation was at its peak. Now most of them are ageing. The younger one like Kalou, Tiote and Gervinho are hit and miss. They need a big tournament from Yaya (great but not fit), Drogba(old but big match player) and Bony( needs to carry his club form in Brazil).

Ghana are in a difficult group. Their loss to USA struck a blow to their ko stage hopes. Gyan who should be at his peak decided to prioritise money and is playing in a poor league. Essien was ruined by injuries and age. Muntari, the Ayews, Asamoah, Boateng are all decent but not good enough to beat Germany and Portugal.


Algeria are well organised but in this world cup they need to attack more. All the teams that are adventurous are thriving in this tournament.
 
I think Ghana would get out of half of these groups no problem - just got dealt a tough draw. Ivory Coast will progress to the 2nd round at least though - and will give whoever they play from England's group a tough game.
 
Ghana looked very good against USA until the final third. Then their decision maling turned terrible around these last few yards, they took pointless shots that could not achieve anything and fired numerous overpowered crosses to nobody. It doesn't help that their defence was so dodgy that they actually managed to concede twice against a side that didn't even want to attack them for the vast majority of time.

I didn't see Ivory Coast game and obviously Nigeria and Cameroon have been terrible so far. Jury's still out on Algeria, I fancy them to get a result against one of Korea and Russia and it could all come down to how they fare against the other and how Belgium do against them.
 
Yeah I can't see how anybody can claim the African teams are improving, they've appeared just as bad as normal at the World Cup honestly.

Cameroon were disgraceful last night, an ill disciplined shambles. I was too young to remember 1990 but Cameroon seem to be routinely awful at the World Cup. I think Ivory Coast were very unlucky to be drawn in the group of death in 2 world cups when they were at their peak. It is probably all a little too late for them now in 2014.
 
The WC draw always seem to put Africa's best teams in the worst groups. But like I've said previously, these groups are now seen as tough due to the inclusion of an African team. You simply wouldn't have had this back in the 2002 WC (Senegal were expected to finish bottom of their group). People say African football hasn't improved but what is their barometer of improvement? If anything African countries have been punching way above their weight in the WC.

So far in this WC, only Nigeria and Cameroon have truly been disappointing. Ghana looked a class above the USA, unlike in previous tournaments where US have been a match in terms of quality. You only have to look at the Americans celebrated after beating us to realise this game meant more to them.

If Ghana had won, it would have just been another WC win. We were very expectant of victory and that turned into complacency. For instance, the manager decided to try out an experimental line-up: not starting with Essien, Badu or Boateng, and playing K.Asamoah in defence. This wouldn't have happened if we were playing against Germany!

Ivory Coast were overall better than Japan on the day. They should have scored at least 3 more goals. Plus I only ever remember Japan creating one other clear chance apart from Honda's goal.

Algeria clearly had a game plan which nearly worked. Belgium's much superior talent struggled to break them down. In the end, the manager had to result to lumping the "big man" upfront.

There are fine details between winning and loosing. Like Cal likes to say:

Cal? said:
But Bony didn't score all those chances did he? In the end they needed a calamitous goalkeeping error to win that game.
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Just as the USA needed calamitous defending to win and Belgium just happen to have a player who was taller than the Algerians. When these factors favour the African team, it is because they're lucky but when it goes against them, it is because the other team deserved it.
 
I don't get what people saw in Algeria. To me they looked like a team that just wanted to defend. The only shot I remember them having was the penalty.
Ghana looked good at the end of the game but in the end lacked end product. Nigeria were atrocious. Ivory Coast wasted a lot of chances and weren't very good first half. They dominated the second half though. Cameroon are a joke.

I do see a lack of footballing intelligence in all of these sides. As teams none of these are special. Defensively most of them look weak as well. Algeria had 11 men in their own half at times and for the Fellaini goal they let the guy cross it (as I remember it). The killer goal was a result of them actually having to play. Belgium broke and scored.
 
I can't comment about the other African teams, but for Ivory Coast, besides player performances their manager/tactics seemed to be quite good.

IC had an effective formation that confused Japan. They had one of their CMs playing almost in the defensive line, so they had a numerical advantage in deep midfield, evading Japan's attempt to press. At the same time they kept their left and right backs at a high position, forcing Kagawa and Okazaki to stay back, slowing down Japan's attack.

Also Drogba was brought in after seeing that Endo replaced Hasebe, which weakened Japan's left side defense. Zacc and Japan were not able to take effective measures.
 
Nigeria has been the worst, no urgency, no tactics, just long ball and they had the easiest team in Iran, where really they should be winning at least 3-0. Cameroon looked like they might have given Croatia a game and then Song got himself sent off and I don't expect them to do anything against Brazil either.

To be honest the reason Nigeria and Cameroon aren't doing so well goes back to finances, they are not getting the money to develop the players at a young age so when this happens you get African teams playing poorly. Ghana and Ivory are lucky because they have individual players that can have a huge impact. Nigeria's supposedly 'best' player is Obi Mikel and we all know he is poor so that is saying something. Even though Australia lost both games you can see a huge improvement and they have played very well in the tournament. They recognised early that they haven't got the best technique so they hired Dutch coaches to help develop their players. This is something African football may need to invest in because apart from Ghana and Ivory Coast the rest are terrible.
 
iBoss said:
I do see a lack of footballing intelligence in all of these sides.
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That's my biggest problem with african sides as well, you can probably also add lack of discipline. A guy like Pirlo would do wonders for an african team. They need to develop those sort of players.
 
Bojan11 said:
Not a big fan of African teams. Not being racist, but a lot of their players seem money orientated rather than playing for their countries. Understandable as quite a few came from poor backgrounds. But you would think they give it their all.

But the Cameroon stuff with bonus and flag was silly.
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It comes across as your viewing the antics of the Cameroon team(the winning bonus scandal is shameful) to base an opinion on the rest of the African teams in the tournament. There hasn't been any other 'scandals' coming out of Brazil about the other African nations so I would say your opinion is completely unfair.

Also The Part in Bold :lol:
I've still yet to find someone who say this and for it not to be always followed by a personal assumption based on little or not fact at all.


Anyway as for African teams in this World Cup it's being disappointing. Mainly due to the performance then the end results(Although the second half of Ivory Coast's game against Japan was a positive)
 
Ivory Coast the only African team to get through? And they will then meet either Italy or whoever comes runner up in England's group. So I dont expect to see an African team in the quarters this year.
 
Sweet Square said:
It comes across as your using the antics of the Cameroon(the winning bonus scandal is shameful) to base an opinion on the rest of the African teams in the tournament. There hasn't been any other so called 'bad news' coming out of Brazil about the other African nations so I would say your opinion is completely unfair.

The Part in Bold :lol:
I've still yet to find someone who say this and for it not to being always followed by a personal assumption based on little or not fact at all.


Anyway as for African teams in this World Cup it's being disappointing. Mainly due to the performance then the end results(Although the second half of Ivory Coast's game against Japan was a positive)
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Yaya Toures stories coming out of Brazil say hello. Here is a guy who just won the league and should be focusing on the World Cup. And is moaning about birthdays and contracts.

Nigeria last year during the confederations cup threatened to strike because of pay dispute.

Adebayor quit Togo and a few others over pay. Do you see where I am coming from now and why I was making the point? Do you think the above is based on little fact?

You don't see that happening in Europe very often. African players seem more money orientated, which is my opinion. Understandable as some of them have come from poor backgrounds. But they do behave like cnuts over it.
 
Sweet Square said:
It comes across as your using the antics of the Cameroon(the winning bonus scandal is shameful) to base an opinion on the rest of the African teams in the tournament. There hasn't been any other so called 'bad news' coming out of Brazil about the other African nations so I would say your opinion is completely unfair.

The Part in Bold :lol:
I've still yet to find someone who say this and for it not to being always followed by a personal assumption based on little or not fact at all.


Anyway as for African teams in this World Cup it's being disappointing. Mainly due to the performance then the end results(Although the second half of Ivory Coast's game against Japan was a positive)
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The African players are not money orientated they just want what is due. Eto'o, Assou Ekotto, Alex Song are fine without the money but the rest do not earn anywhere near those players. The Cameroonian player are only entitled to 6% of the money given by FIFA so where is the other 94% of the money going, it's not going into developing the Cameroonian footballers of the future, it's going to the corrupt Cameroonian officials pockets which they will use to build big houses and buy expensive cars. The same thing is happening with Nigeria, where a member of the Nigerian FA who not long at was working as a security guard here was buying million pound homes in Miami and was living it up in Chelsea Harbour.
 
Jaytay said:
The African players are not money orientated they just want what is due. Eto'o, Assou Ekotto, Alex Song are fine without the money but the rest do not earn anywhere near those players. The Cameroonian player are only entitled to 6% of the money given by FIFA so where is the other 94% of the money going, it's not going into developing the Cameroonian footballers of the future, it's going to the corrupt Cameroonian officials pockets which they will use to build big houses and buy expensive cars. The same thing is happening with Nigeria, where a member of the Nigerian FA who not long at was working as a security guard here was buying million pound homes in Miami and was living it up in Chelsea Harbour.
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Pretty much this.
It doesn't look good when somebody argues about money for national team appearances, but it's just not the case of being greedy, but rather not willing to be hoodwinked by their corrupt and incopetent officials.
 
steve zizou said:
The WC draw always seem to put Africa's best teams in the worst groups. But like I've said previously, these groups are now seen as tough due to the inclusion of an African team. You simply wouldn't have had this back in the 2002 WC (Senegal were expected to finish bottom of their group). People say African football hasn't improved but what is their barometer of improvement?
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Results are the barometer and Africa still hasn't accomplished more than in the 90's so no improvement. In the mean time even teams like Bulgaria, Sweden, Croatia, Turkey, South Korea, Portugal, Uruguay managed to reach the semi-final of a WC and even other smaller european countries like the czechs, now belgium, denmark, Chile and so on looked at times all better than the african "dark horses".
You can certainly argue that Africa also hasn't become worse but it actually allowed asian and north american countries to catch up to them and I doubt african football can be pleased with the current situation. In the 90's people thought the african teams might challenge the european/south american powerhouses in 10 to 20 years and now they are not even close to it.
 
African football, not only hasn't improved but has even gotten worse.Teams play incoherently, there aren't anymore exciting and technical talents in Africa like there used to be 10 years ago for instance. Let's just forget about the WC results only focus on the quality of football played, IMHO African football, despite all the international coaching, the money injected into it, hasn't improved all.
It's so obvious to see for people like me who have been following it for years, it's kinda depressing when you think about it.
 
I didn't see the Nigeria Iran game but from what I heard it was very boring. From watching the rest I think they are all terrible outwith the Ivory Coast but I think that was expected
 
Watz said:
That's my biggest problem with african sides as well, you can probably also add lack of discipline. A guy like Pirlo would do wonders for an african team. They need to develop those sort of players.
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I agree.

Add in coaching. Until they hit a critical mass of domestic manager skill, they won't have a chance to really develop that tactical acumen Africans teams lack.

Look at their defending--especially corners. West African teams look out of their depth when a match plays out nullifying power and breaking at pace. Most regions have their tendencies and reliance on specific attributes, but West African teams so obviously hit the glass ceiling they make for themselves with naive play.
 
Not good. I blame my national side.

May be I'm biased, but I think Egypt deserves to be there ahead of teams like Nigeria, Cameroon and possibly Algeria. Friggin Fifa ranking!! made us not one of the top 5 teams in the continent and we ended up facing Ghana in the qualifications !!
 
I don't think it's fair to say African players are money oriented. Many of the associations routinely screw players out of their appearance bonuses. Stephen Keshi has at times gone for months without pay yet he is national manager. You have to consider that not all of them are multi millionaires like their European based counterparts who can do without national team bonuses. Players need to be given their dues.
 
Could be stereotyping a bit but it always seems to me that the West African sides have a lot of talent and athletic ability but their defensive organisation, tactics and decision making are always shambolic. The North African sides on the other hand are lacking a bit in the talent department but are usually well organised and tactically astute. If they could put the best traits together we'd see some really good sides.
 
Cameroon, wow that was bad. I still have hope for Ivory Coast though. Yaya is good enough to win games on his own.

I think their is a lot of shady business going on with the African teams. What do you expect when the continent is being overtaken by colonial greed and exploitation to murderous levels.

I always cheers for African teams at the World Cup. Hopefully Yaya and Drogba can see them through because I don't see another African team progressing.
 
Bojan11 said:
Yaya Toures stories coming out of Brazil say hello. Here is a guy who just won the league and should be focusing on the World Cup. And is moaning about birthdays and contracts.

Nigeria last year during the confederations cup threatened to strike because of pay dispute.

Adebayor quit Togo and a few others over pay. Do you see where I am coming from now and why I was making the point? Do you think the above is based on little fact?

You don't see that happening in Europe very often. African players seem more money orientated, which is my opinion. Understandable as some of them have come from poor backgrounds. But they do behave like cnuts over it.
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The point on Yaya is pointless, he has a habit of moaning over anything to try and get a improved contact constantly but Yaya isn't the only footballer in the world to do this(Mr Wayne says Hi ;)) he's just very poor at doing it.

The case of Adebayor isn't as straight forward as simply as players being greedy. The pay (As far as I could found out) is about not winning bonus's it was about overall pay and also take the quote from Adebayor himself

Adebayor told Togo's Radio Frequence1. "In our FA everyone thinks about their own pockets. Some players have not received their money, some have received half of it."Players come to me to ask about their money. It is a shame. I asked the Moroccan Federation how much they paid our Togolese FA. They told me that they paid €35,000 (£28,000) to President Ameyi.
"The president has the money because the Moroccan FA will not lie to me. If this continues, then no one will play for others to fill their pockets."

It's clear that Togolese FA at the very least were a mess at this point in time and a quick wiki shows the mess the Togo team and Fa were in 2010
On 7 September 2010, Togo allegedly played Bahrain in a friendly losing the match 3–0. However, on 14 September, the Togo FA claimed that a fake team had played against Bahrain. Togo's Sport Minister Christophe Tchao said to the Jeune Afrique magazine that nobody in Togo had "ever been informed of such a game".On 20 September 2010, it was revealed that former Togo manager Bana Tchanile was the culprit and the Togo FA have given him a three-year ban in addition to the two-year ban he got in July 2010 for taking Togo players to play a tournament in Egypt.
So the idea the players are acting out of pure greed doesn't add up.

I don't really what to start a debate/argument but I just think this idea that Africa players somehow care more about money(Also I find it strange you think because some of the players would come from poorer backgrounds it adds weight to your argument that they care more about money than players from a wealthier background. Because you know those big rich millionaires are so caring and giving) than then their national team compared to their European counterparts is completely false.
 
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There's a few reasons African teams tend to underwhelm so often, they depend to much on their speed and athleticism instead of skill based players, they dominate games for 90 mins and still lose because of atrocious decision making in the final third or just wasting chances(like what we saw against the USA), they also just don't seem to really give a feck to be honest they seem to care more about money than their country, the coaching and footballing facilities in most African nations also tends to be of poor quality and sparse but when that changes we'll be seeing what happens when African players either to move to Europe at an early age after being spotted by scouts or just happening to grow up there, they then become the likes of Pogba, Viera, Theirry Henry (basically the whole french team lol) and Balotelli etc..in a money rich environment suited to bringing the best out of everyone.

Ivory Coast are however in with a chance of doing something great with the players they have right now.
 
Avatar said:
Not good. I blame my national side.

May be I'm biased, but I think Egypt deserves to be there ahead of teams like Nigeria, Cameroon and possibly Algeria. Friggin Fifa ranking!! made us not one of the top 5 teams in the continent and we ended up facing Ghana in the qualifications !!
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No they don't, Egypt is just as bad, if you can't beat Ghana that is your own problem. As much as I think Nigeria are atrocious and they really are terrible, it wasn't long ago that they beat Ivory Coast 4-1 and won the African Cup, if Egypt can't turn up against teams to qualify they don't deserve anything.
 
mic.m said:
I don't think it's fair to say African players are money oriented. Many of the associations routinely screw players out of their appearance bonuses. Stephen Keshi has at times gone for months without pay yet he is national manager. You have to consider that not all of them are multi millionaires like their European based counterparts who can do without national team bonuses. Players need to be given their dues.
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Exactly!
 
Avatar said:
Not good. I blame my national side.

May be I'm biased, but I think Egypt deserves to be there ahead of teams like Nigeria, Cameroon and possibly Algeria. Friggin Fifa ranking!! made us not one of the top 5 teams in the continent and we ended up facing Ghana in the qualifications !!
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Egypt play the most "european" style of football in the african continent.Really pleasing on the eye but it helps to have so many players from the same league and also team.
 
Jaytay said:
No they don't, Egypt is just as bad, if you can't beat Ghana that is your own problem. As much as I think Nigeria are atrocious and they really are terrible, it wasn't long ago that they beat Ivory Coast 4-1 and won the African Cup, if Egypt can't turn up against teams to qualify they don't deserve anything.
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you do know that it wasn't long ago that we won three African cups in succession 2006-2010 beating Cameroon thrice 4-2, 1-0 and 3-1 Ivory Coast thrice 4-0, 3-1 and on penalties , Algeria once 4-0 and Ghana once in the final.
 
Impressed by Ghana today. Great tactical display by their coach and the technical quality of their players was impressive.
 
Great performance by Ghana. They outplayed the Germans. It wasn't one of those cliche "underdogs running their socks off" performance. They were genuinely better. I feel the Germans underestimated them a bit going into the match. Still mad at Jordan Ayew though.
 
I think people were quick to show their vindication after the 1st round of games. Now 2 of the African teams are virtually through to the 2nd round and we could potentially have 4/5 countries making it. I've always said that only a handful of European teams in the WC (about 4) are truly better than African counterparts. Case in point Bosnia. I said they're just Serbia 2.0 and now I must resist the temptation to feel smug.
There's still an overall gap in quality but
as you saw against Germany, the likes of Ghana - when they can be bothered, are a match for anyone.
 
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