We'll see, people over estimate African teams every single WC.
African Teams - WC2014
- Thread starter RoadTrip
- Start date
We'll see, people over estimate African teams every single WC.
Cote D'voire are better than Japan and Colombia mate.
Ghana were a penalty away from reaching the WC Semi's last and Ivory Coast have been drawn into the group of death (Argentina, Serbia, Holland) and (Brazil, Portugal) the last two WC's.
Whatever you say Cal, I rarely lose money and this will be no exception, kid.
Right, so the bookies know nothing and just make Colombia big favourites for the group because a lot of people bet on Colombia?
Ghana only made the 2nd round because Serbia had a goal wrongly chalked off against Australia. Fine margins...
That's interesting, considering I usually make money off football betting.
Sport is all about fine margins, thats what makes it so special.
I'm Ghanian, and I know the only way we'll get through to the next stage is if Ronaldo is hampered by injury still.
We can beat USA, we can potentially beat Portugal too (depending on Ronaldo)
Ivory Coast and Nigeria also have very strong teams this WC, much stronger than Ghana and I think they'll qualify from their groups.
People underestimate African teams mainly because they're not familiar with them nor do they watch them so immediately they write us off. At the last WC Ghana proved almost everybody wrong - considering we beat Serbia and drew to Australia, Germany only beat us by 1-0 and we played very well that match if we had better strikers i'm certain we would've scored.
Then of course we beat USA, we would've beaten Uruguay had it not been for injuries and suspensions to key players, Suarez's hand, and Gyan's resulting penalty from the Suarez incident hitting the bar... Fine margins.
There's always one that does something special, but it's hard to see who this year. Ivory Coast v Japan will be a tasty one.
I don't think Ghana will be as good this time. Last time they had Essien and Appiah and they played really really well in midfield for Ghana. This time they don't have that same quality midfield in my opinion.
Ivory Coast have a good team with top drawer players and have added very good players such as Aurier too. They might do well, but they are in a true group of death with the 4 teams very closely matched, so any 2 can qualify and any 2 go out.
Cameroon and Nigeria have great world cup experience but not sure how strong their squads are. I think Nigeria have better chance of getting through because their group is nowhere near as tough for them as Cameroon's group is for them.
Algeria I don't know much about, but they might be the dark horses and surprise everyone and get furthest of all African teams.
Ivory Coast have a good team with top drawer players and have added very good players such as Aurier too. They might do well, but they are in a true group of death with the 4 teams very closely matched, so any 2 can qualify and any 2 go out.
Cameroon and Nigeria have great world cup experience but not sure how strong their squads are. I think Nigeria have better chance of getting through because their group is nowhere near as tough for them as Cameroon's group is for them.
Algeria I don't know much about, but they might be the dark horses and surprise everyone and get furthest of all African teams.
I agree it's fine margins, just responding to someone who said Ghana were a penalty from the semis, which is true, but Ghana could easily have gone out in the group stage too. Fine margins indeed...
I also agree that if Ronaldo is injured, it'd give you a decent chance of making the 2nd round, I don't think there's much between Ghana and USA, but Portugal (if Ronaldo is fit) and Germany are 2 much better sides.
Cote D'Ivoire do have a good side on paper, but I really think Japan has the better team and Greece will surprise a few in this very low scoring group.
Nigeria, well, I think people are under estimating Bosnia and Argentina have some world class players (even if I'd love to see them go out at the group stage, but it won't happen...)
Kagawa had a bad season but seems to be regaining his shape now. Honda had just a horrendous season and he still seems to be struggling to get his shape back, which is a major concern for Japan.
For Ivory Coast, aside from Drogba, Gervihno looks to be a great attacking threat from what I see in the video highlights of their latest test match. He can simply outrun his defender competing for a through ball. Yaya did not play in the match; heard he's recovering from some injury but is expected to play in the first WC match. Yaya we expect will cause trouble for Japan.
Contrary to what people may think, the current Japanese side is a very attack-minded team. But since we obviously do not have individual physical/athletic advantage, like sheer speed, against African (or most other) teams, everything is a team effort for the Japanese.
This means Japan tries to maintain a high defense line, to enable the CM onwards to cohesively take part in the attack; which consequently means that Japan, unfortunately, is very much vulnerable to counter attacks once it loses possesion during attack.
I get the feeling Japan-Ivory Coast will be a shootout; not a defensive game but a game where we see both sides take risks and attack.
I hope my NT, Japan, wins, but we know it would be a very tough game.
Ghana still has a good squad, a forward line with Atsu, Ayew, Gyan is class, that is really good. Atsu has been of the better players in the Eredivisie, while Ayew has earned interest from Arsenal and Liverpool. Gyan's scoring ratio is higher than 1 goal PG, I know the level in Qatar isnot really high but I think that mentally he is sound at least. A midfield with Badu, KPB, Asamoah would also be top class. I reckon you guys know KPB and Asamoah, but Agyemang Badu is a very good DM, he plays at Udinese and is a starter. Only the defence is not good enough, but with Opare and Inkoom you have decent full backs, and with Johnathan Mensan and Richie Boye very athletic and strong defence. Ghana could force something.
BTW, it'd be great if we had threads for individual tournament groups.
I am quietly confident of Nigeria at least making the quarter finals. They have a balanced first XI, although some question marks at centre half I think. Ever since Keshi took over we have looked like the sort of level we have expected in the past.
Ivory Coast have the players, but have consistently disappointed, even on an African level, so I doubt they will do much on the world stage.
Ghana have declined over the last two years, with their players seemingly believing their own hype. I don't think Cameroon will make any sort of impact.
I think an XI of:
Enyeama
Ambrose
Oboabona
Omeruo
Elderson
Mikel
Onazi
Musa
Moses
Odemwinge
Emenike
Will getbus out of the group at least.
Ivory Coast have the players, but have consistently disappointed, even on an African level, so I doubt they will do much on the world stage.
Ghana have declined over the last two years, with their players seemingly believing their own hype. I don't think Cameroon will make any sort of impact.
I think an XI of:
Enyeama
Ambrose
Oboabona
Omeruo
Elderson
Mikel
Onazi
Musa
Moses
Odemwinge
Emenike
Will getbus out of the group at least.
I would choose almost same team but shuffle defense slightly, because I think Ambrose is a CB and I don't like having big men at FB and little men at CB, prefer other way around
GK Enyeama
RB Omeruo
CB Yobo
CB Ambrose
LB Elderson
CM Onazi
CM Mikel
AM Moses
W Odemwingie
W Musa
ST Emenike
Think Ivory Coast has the best chance but they always seem to seriously underwhelm. They were awful against Bosnia when we could have won by about 5 goals at least if we were more clinical, but to be fair they were missing 4-5 key players. Defence was a mess though.
Nigeria is decent but again, the friendlies I've seen of them they don't look good enough to get through. People seriously underestimate Bosnia just because it's our first World Cup, but along with having a very strong and balanced starting 11, pretty much all the players play better for the national team and play really well together, compared to their club teams, which is unnatural to see for national teams. We used to be weak defensively but adding in Kolasinac and besic after the qualifiers helps immensely (Kolasinac didn't have his papers before, besic was in the youth team).
Ghana looks weaker then usual and is in the hardest group, so I can't see them getting much more then a result against USA. Cameroon is similar to Nigeria, they have a chance but they're really up against it as both brazil and Croatia are a decent amount better, just as Argentina and Bosnia are a decent amount better then Nigeria.
Wouldn't be surprised to see them all get knocked out of the group stage to be honest, which is disappointing as I always like seeing them go far.
Nigeria is decent but again, the friendlies I've seen of them they don't look good enough to get through. People seriously underestimate Bosnia just because it's our first World Cup, but along with having a very strong and balanced starting 11, pretty much all the players play better for the national team and play really well together, compared to their club teams, which is unnatural to see for national teams. We used to be weak defensively but adding in Kolasinac and besic after the qualifiers helps immensely (Kolasinac didn't have his papers before, besic was in the youth team).
Ghana looks weaker then usual and is in the hardest group, so I can't see them getting much more then a result against USA. Cameroon is similar to Nigeria, they have a chance but they're really up against it as both brazil and Croatia are a decent amount better, just as Argentina and Bosnia are a decent amount better then Nigeria.
Wouldn't be surprised to see them all get knocked out of the group stage to be honest, which is disappointing as I always like seeing them go far.
Well tbh, I would rather Ambrose wasn't in the team at all as he is a defensive liability as far as I am concerned. I would rather Yobo than him, but at least Efe is less danger at full back.
No fecking way, have you watched Cote d'Ivoire on a regular basis ? They're awful.
I'd be surprised if any of the African sides qualify out of their groups. If the last ACN and the qualifiers were anything to go by, they're in serious decline at the moment.
Best African team right now would be Cameroon imo. They've also got the toughest opposition though. Ivory Coast seem to have the best chances of going through but I don't think they will. Nigeria and Ghana don't have the quality to beat Bosnia and Portugal, respectively. I'd be surprised if any team from Africa goes ahead to be honest.
So many interesting points raised and quite a few I disagree with. Most of them are Cal's but didn't want to pick on him 
. Let’s see:
? I'd have to agree with Villain on this one (not because he's a fellow Ghanaian ) but because I feel many people base their analysis of African teams on their knowledge of their more familiar players. Of Europe's 13 teams, only Spain, Germany, Italy and maybe France are heads and shoulders above the African teams in the World Cup. The rest (excluding a piggy backed Portugal) are at best of equal standing.
. Bosnia are a decent team but their hype machine reminds me of Serbia/Czech Republic in past world cups.
On your 2nd bolded point: How has Ghana really declined? I'm hoping it is as a result of other African teams finally got their acts in order because players believing their hype is news to me.
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I guess my point is African teams have been written off because none of them have that star player quality any more. Also they're all in tough groups but unlike in the past the groups are tougher because of their inclusion not in spite of.
. Let’s see:What makes you sound so confident? I know it is not based on history since at least 1 African team has reached the second round since 1994 (the furthest I can remember). So my guess would be that you think African teams are not as good as their group counterparts which is fair opinion but in which case you would be overrating their competition.
Yet according to Villain:
So which is which here
? I'd have to agree with Villain on this one (not because he's a fellow Ghanaian ) but because I feel many people base their analysis of African teams on their knowledge of their more familiar players. Of Europe's 13 teams, only Spain, Germany, Italy and maybe France are heads and shoulders above the African teams in the World Cup. The rest (excluding a piggy backed Portugal) are at best of equal standing.I don't mean to call you out or anything but unless maybe you're referring to 2006 WC, then you're plain wrong! Essien didn't play in the last WC and Appiah was mainly used a sub. The first choice midfield combo in SA was Annan - K. Asamoah - KP Boateng. This year it would likely be Essien/Badu - K. Asamoah - KP Boateng. That's virtually the same midfield and if anything, better.
You should more than quietly confident mate. Nigeria had a similar standard group back in SA and you really should've qualified from the group but yes, that Yakubu miss
. Bosnia are a decent team but their hype machine reminds me of Serbia/Czech Republic in past world cups.On your 2nd bolded point: How has Ghana really declined? I'm hoping it is as a result of other African teams finally got their acts in order because players believing their hype is news to me.
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I guess my point is African teams have been written off because none of them have that star player quality any more. Also they're all in tough groups but unlike in the past the groups are tougher because of their inclusion not in spite of.
Yes the 06 WC, I just assumed it was last one but my sense of the passage of time is non existent, 8 years or 8 months all seems the sameSo many interesting points raised and quite a few I disagree with. Most of them are Cal's but didn't want to pick on him
What makes you sound so confident? I know it is not based on history since at least 1 African team has reached the second round since 1994 (the furthest I can remember). So my guess would be that you think African teams are not as good as their group counterparts which is fair opinion but in which case you would be overrating their competition.
Yet according to Villain:
So which is which here
I don't mean to call you out or anything but unless maybe you're referring to 2006 WC, then you're plain wrong! Essien didn't play in the last WC and Appiah was mainly used a sub. The first choice midfield combo in SA was Annan - K. Asamoah - KP Boateng. This year it would likely be Essien/Badu - K. Asamoah - KP Boateng. That's virtually the same midfield and if anything, better.
You should more than quietly confident mate. Nigeria had a similar standard group back in SA and you really should've qualified from the group but yes, that Yakubu miss
On your 2nd bolded point: How has Ghana really declined? I'm hoping it is as a result of other African teams finally got their acts in order because players believing their hype is news to me.
---
I guess my point is African teams have been written off because none of them have that star player quality any more. Also they're all in tough groups but unlike in the past the groups are tougher because of their inclusion not in spite of.
So many interesting points raised and quite a few I disagree with. Most of them are Cal's but didn't want to pick on him
What makes you sound so confident? I know it is not based on history since at least 1 African team has reached the second round since 1994 (the furthest I can remember). So my guess would be that you think African teams are not as good as their group counterparts which is fair opinion but in which case you would be overrating their competition.
Yet according to Villain:
So which is which here
I don't mean to call you out or anything but unless maybe you're referring to 2006 WC, then you're plain wrong! Essien didn't play in the last WC and Appiah was mainly used a sub. The first choice midfield combo in SA was Annan - K. Asamoah - KP Boateng. This year it would likely be Essien/Badu - K. Asamoah - KP Boateng. That's virtually the same midfield and if anything, better.
You should more than quietly confident mate. Nigeria had a similar standard group back in SA and you really should've qualified from the group but yes, that Yakubu miss
On your 2nd bolded point: How has Ghana really declined? I'm hoping it is as a result of other African teams finally got their acts in order because players believing their hype is news to me.
---
I guess my point is African teams have been written off because none of them have that star player quality any more. Also they're all in tough groups but unlike in the past the groups are tougher because of their inclusion not in spite of.
It's called making a prediction, obviously chances are that one African side may make the 2nd round like last time, but none of them look particularly good.
You're seriously under estimating the European sides if you think only 4 teams are better than the African sides, the likes of Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, England, are easily better.
Serbia should have made the 2nd round last time ahead of Ghana if they didn't have the goal wrongly disallowed against Australia, incidently, that would have meant no African teams in the 2nd round last time, it's not exactly so far fetched, is it?
England have failed to beat an African team at two recent world cups and in 2 recent friendlies, Nigeria, Algeria, Ghana and Cameroon. They are not 'easily' better.
Yes class A friendlies go towards FIFA rankings anyway so why disregard them? Those were full teams. England have only ever played Cameroon in a knockout stage in a major senior tournament, 1990 WC unless im mistaken. They've never really played an African team in a decider in a group game either, although Algeria 0-0 in 2010 put them in the balance going into the last game against Slovenia. In conclusion, I wouldn't say England are easily better than African teams going by recent results.
That statement is wrong, and a professional team like England takes every game seriously. Those players are playing for their places with every game. You think friendlies are organised just for the sake of it? They are serious business and a necessity. Hodgson is not being paid millions not to take any game seriously. Did you hear his criticism of Barkley in the 2-2 draw against Ecuador? I guess he wasn't being serious.
That's why the likes of Rooney and Gerrard develop mysterious injuries before friendlies all the time and Giggs hardly ever played a friendly.
I'd be surprised if Bale features too often for Wales in friendlies.
It's your choice of the word "easily" that I can't get my head around. Sure Spain are easily better than all of the African teams but then again they're also easily better than 90% of teams in world football. I wouldn't class Spain as being easily better than Germany, Italy or Brazil. Likewise I wouldn't class Portugal/Netherlands as being easily better than Ivory Coast or Ghana. Neither is Russia, Belgium or Swiss significantly better than Algeria, Cameroon or Nigeria. Portugal may be better than Algeria but even that I'd would say is only marginal.
Also you keep mentioning this disallowed Serbian goal. If I can remember correctly that goal would have taken them through on goal difference. I can equally then say if Ghana hadn't hit the bar in the 1st game (and won 2-0 instead), that disallowed goal wouldn't have counted for anything even if it was allowed. We're entering the realms of the hypothetical here and it's only going to get more silly.
All African teams are level below Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, Russia, England, Switzerland, Croatia etc. In terms of team cohesiveness, individual quality and depth combined.
Cote D'Ivoire has decent individual quality, but they are underwhelming as a team. Ghana was solid last few Cups, but now looks average without any big names in their prime.
I always liked African teams, and generally they've made steady progression in last 20 years. But there is a reason why they never did anythig of significance in World Cups, aside from Ghana's flukey journey to almost 1/2 final.
Cote D'Ivoire has decent individual quality, but they are underwhelming as a team. Ghana was solid last few Cups, but now looks average without any big names in their prime.
I always liked African teams, and generally they've made steady progression in last 20 years. But there is a reason why they never did anythig of significance in World Cups, aside from Ghana's flukey journey to almost 1/2 final.
Portugal marginally better than Algeria?
Portugal are possibly the 5th-6th best team in the world.As for that disallowed goal, it was more a reply to those saying Ghana was a pen away from the SF.
I think you have to look at things in perspective. Firstly, Europe has 13 places out of the 32. Even if you send the most average European teams to the WC, there's high probability at least one would sneak through to the 2nd round. Also, Europe and South America have had nearly 50 years head-start on Africa when it comes to international football. For instance, Ghana played its first international match in 1950 by then Uruguay and Italy had already won 2 world cups!
S. American countries also have a 1 in 2 chance of qualifying; in Africa, it's 1 in 10 and until France 98 it was around 1 in 18. Yet when you remove Brazil and Argentina from the equation, their WC record is relatively just as bad as Africa's since Africa countries started taking part in the competition (in 1966?). All things considered, African countries have made remarkable progress and are currently now a goal line handball clearance away from reaching the semis - which is now apparently a fluke.
All the African teams have a mix of quality players, underrated players, players in form, players not in form, average players, young exciting players.
What will make the real difference for every African team, as well as for every team at the World Cup for that matter, is the manager.
What will make the real difference for every African team, as well as for every team at the World Cup for that matter, is the manager.
Asia did make the SF and apparently deserve fewer places than Africa.
Europe = 16 Americas = 8 Africa = 4 Asia = 4. North and South America should merge. Oceania should be scrapped and they all follow Australia into Asia qualifying.
Once Africa and Asia have developed more we can go Europe 12 Africa 6 Asia 6, but that is long way off at current rate of development.
Once Africa and Asia have developed more we can go Europe 12 Africa 6 Asia 6, but that is long way off at current rate of development.
Alternatively all those half places that Asia, Oceanana, etc get should play off with Uefa teams so Europe would get more places like they should or these continents can get their places at the expense of Uefa like they want.Europe = 16 Americas = 8 Africa = 4 Asia = 4. North and South America should merge. Oceania should be scrapped and they all follow Australia into Asia qualifying.
Once Africa and Asia have developed more we can go Europe 12 Africa 6 Asia 6, but that is long way off at current rate of development.
A new play off system between Europe 13-16 and Africa 5-6 and Asia 5-6 would be good. Example for a future World Cup could something like
Turkey vs Burkina Faso
Denmark vs Australia
Portugal vs Uzbekistan
Czech Republic vs Cameroon
So you have 12 Europe plus 4 Africa plus 4 Asia plus the 4 winners of those 2 legged ties. I don't think Oceania deserves even half a spot because their qualifying is so weak, they don't play anybody and if they fluke a 0-0 and 1-0 they end up in the WC having only played 2 challenging games. We could have had New Caledonia at the World Cup and they are not even a sovereign nation. Its ridiculous.
Europe = 16 Americas = 8 Africa = 4 Asia = 4. North and South America should merge. Oceania should be scrapped and they all follow Australia into Asia qualifying.
Once Africa and Asia have developed more we can go Europe 12 Africa 6 Asia 6, but that is long way off at current rate of development.
16 from Europe? What is this, the Euros? How many of the European contingent this year have a realistic chance of winning? I'd say less than half! Europe is over represented as it is (let's put quality aside). It is like a raffle in which Europe already has a 1/3 chance of winning regardless of who they send. Now Imagine if only 5 European teams made to the WC and Africa (or Asia) had 13 teams. Sure the European teams will likely still dominate but the African countries will get to quarters and semis more often due to the sheer numbers of countries representing. It will make for a poorer tournament but the these continents would do better overall.
I'm guessing South Korea in 2002? Now that was a fluke! Their games against Italy and Spain are widely regarded at controversial to say the least.
How many Asian teams do you think will qualify over Africa in a combined Afro-Asian qualification system?
South Korea fully deserved their wins against Italy and Spain. The only controversial part of those games was the attitudes of bigoted media goons who didn't want South Korea in the semi finals.
You're talking about Serbia having a goal wrongfully disallowed in their loss vs Australia, yet you fail to mention the ridiculous red card Klose got by the Spanish ref in like the 28th min in Serbia's win over Germany. They scored the winning goal the minute after Klose's sending off. Germany failed to score from their countless chances in the rest of the game, but they always looked threatening, and should've certainly equalized. Podolski even missed a pen.
Ghana was easily the second best team in that group and rightfully went through! You say England is easily better? Yet in 2010 Ghana gave Germany an incredibly tough game, that Ghana could've certainly tied or even won. The only goal in that game happened to be a long range volley by Özil of all things. The goal was a fluke, but it sufficed for the 3 points.
A week later Germany played England in a game that was A LOT easier for Germany. Ghana looked physically, mentally, and tactically way ahead of England if you compare those 2 games.
Also Ghana certainly should have made the semis in 2010. That Suarez handball and Gyan's missed penalty were so harsh on Ghana. I couldn't believe my eyes at the end.