AFCON is very entertaining, has about 6 teams that can win it. Copa America has Brazil & Argentina. IMO, in recent times Afcom has surpassed Copa America for overall entertainment & all around quality. But perceptions take time to change. A bit like Ugarte, few realise he’s actually a good attacking midfielder too, most assume his just tackle and simple pass DCM.
AFCON: Does it need and deserve more respect as a tournament?
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Imagine a world without the aftereffects of colonialism/neo-colonialism.
Back to today, full credit to the French, for... yes. They don't get enough credit.
Since the turn of the century there have been 9 tournaments. Brazil have won it three times, Argentina twice, Chile twice, Uruguay once and Colombia once.
So saying it's just those two teams is unfair.
My post was in response to someone suggesting that players were poached, I used the same terms to make a point about the silliness and inaccuracy of the statement. From the start you entered a conversation without ever caring about the context.
Also a large number do not have dual nationality until they get one through FAs which happens after being contacted for Football reasons.
It's funny because they tried hosting it in the summer this year to fit the Euro calendar before finding out FIFA had scheduled the club world cup so it had to move to December. You just know there's no way FIFA schedules it's own tournament in an Euro slot. Now people are in the thread complaining about that too without really knowing the reason why, same folk complaining about why it's held every 2 years without knowing that the Afcon existed before even the Euros and the tournament was being hosted every 2 years before European domestic football became a global event.
Yeah but the Afcon is not the exact equivalent for international tournaments. The best African players always take part of the tournament whereas they don't play for those african clubs. Your analogy isn't valid.
Great post
On that, the only way the AFCON can safely be played during summer is if the competition is held in North AFrica or Southern Africa, anywhere else between Bostwana and the Sahara will have weather issues and potentially weeks of rescheduling.
That was badly written on my part. In regards to Copa America, I was referring to Brazil & Argentina as the superstars. Take one or both out and Copa America would lose some interest outside of Americas.
The Afcon is a very important continental tournament in Africa and so dear to Africans such as the Euro's is dear to the Europeans and COPA America is dear to South Americans.
It should never be viewed as a lesser tournament just because it belongs to a particular people. It should be respected, recognized and acknowledged as a major tournament, anything short is segregation and disregard for Africans.
It should never be viewed as a lesser tournament just because it belongs to a particular people. It should be respected, recognized and acknowledged as a major tournament, anything short is segregation and disregard for Africans.
I have to say, I’m not a fan of this podcast. I was very excited when I heard he was starting one but very quickly after one or two listens I realised he just waffles, the best bits are usually when he offers up behind the scenes insight into his time at Chelsea, but beyond that, he’s not really an interesting guy to listen to.
I don’t know if Mikel actually saw the full clip where Carragher spoke about AFCON. I suspect he didn’t because he was misquoted several times and attributed words to him that he didn’t say.
Brilliant. That's the tweet!
The scheduling, both in terms of time of year and being every 2 years is a source of angst for many of us Africans as well. But it's definitely a major tournament for us.
I'm glad there's a thread on the Caf because trying to have this discussion on Reddit is like pulling teeth. Some interesting takes in this thread, hopefully we can use it as a teaching moment.
I understand the context of what Jamie was saying and he isn't wrong, the World Cup and Euros have far more sway in B'Dor voting. Where he was wrong, and rightfully corrected, was in saying AFCON isn't a major tournament.
AFCON is a FIFA sanctioned confederation tournament so it is a major tournament, on the same footing with Euros, Copa America, Gold Cup, Asian Cup and Oceania Nation's Cup.
Is the AFCON as "big" or prestigious as the World Cup or Euros? No, it isn't. But Micah corrected him on saying AFCON isn't a major tournament.
It's like when ETH won us the league cup and there was a stat saying this was United's first major trophy since the EL win under Jose. The league cup and FA cup are major trophies but aren't "big" titles to United in the same way the Prem or UCL would be.
Mind you, AFCON predates the Euros as a tournament. AFCON was first held in 1957, Euros in 1960.
I understand the context of what Jamie was saying and he isn't wrong, the World Cup and Euros have far more sway in B'Dor voting. Where he was wrong, and rightfully corrected, was in saying AFCON isn't a major tournament.
AFCON is a FIFA sanctioned confederation tournament so it is a major tournament, on the same footing with Euros, Copa America, Gold Cup, Asian Cup and Oceania Nation's Cup.
Is the AFCON as "big" or prestigious as the World Cup or Euros? No, it isn't. But Micah corrected him on saying AFCON isn't a major tournament.
It's like when ETH won us the league cup and there was a stat saying this was United's first major trophy since the EL win under Jose. The league cup and FA cup are major trophies but aren't "big" titles to United in the same way the Prem or UCL would be.
The reason AFCON is biannual is because historically, African nations had very few berths in the WC and needed more frequent international tournaments to develop their national teams. Up until the 96 Euros when the tournament expanded to 16 teams, it was easier to qualify for the World Cup from Europe than to qualify for the 8-team Euro tournament. Europe had 9-12 berths out of 16. The World Cup was seen as the Euros + the South American heavyweights.
Mind you, AFCON predates the Euros as a tournament. AFCON was first held in 1957, Euros in 1960.
The 2019 edition was hosted in Egypt as the weather in Northern Africa is conducive for a “summer” tournament. Much of Sub-Saharan Africa sees torrential rains during Jun/Jul so hosting the tournament during that period would be a non-starter. Most games would be delayed because of heavy rains. It would produce a poor spectacle.
This is correct. CAF had planned for the 2025 edition hosted in Morocco to be played in June/July but alas the new FIFA CWC in June forced them to move it to late December.
Brilliant response.
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Fans of super clubs seeing AFCON mostly in terms of how it affects their schedules and transfers says more about them than it does the tournament.
I enjoy it while it's on, it's entertaining, the crowds are good and generally it's a decent tournament. Plus sometimes you get some absolutely crazy games.
It's never going to surpasss the Euros or the world cup to a European audience.
After the world cup I'd say all of the regional international tournaments have the same level of importance to their local audience. I doubt anyone in Africa or South America gives much of a shit about who wins theh Euros or the Oceanic Cup or whatever it's called. Much like most European fans don't really care who wins the AFCON or the Copa America.
It's never going to surpasss the Euros or the world cup to a European audience.
After the world cup I'd say all of the regional international tournaments have the same level of importance to their local audience. I doubt anyone in Africa or South America gives much of a shit about who wins theh Euros or the Oceanic Cup or whatever it's called. Much like most European fans don't really care who wins the AFCON or the Copa America.
Is this sarcasm? How does one prevent rain from failing during raining season?
Have you not heard about cloud engineer?
In all seriousness I've not. Care to enlighten me?
It's engineers that create whatever cloud you want, they can also create clouds that get rid of rainy clouds. That's what chemtrails are.
It is sarcasm.
what does Jamie not winning a Euros have to do with it?
The old ‘you didn’t play at a high enough level so therefore can’t have an opinion’ stance. Also favoured by the likes of John Terry.
I'm glad Richards and Sturridge spoke up. AFCON is undeniably a major tournament, and whether some consider it bigger or smaller than the Euros or Copa America is completely irrelevant—it stands as a prestigious competition in its own right. What’s even worse is the sheer entitlement and arrogance he displayed when Richards rightfully called it a major tournament.
If you're having a conversation about how some people view AFCON as smaller and therefore might affect an African player's chances of winning the Balon D'or, how is mentioning that some consider it smaller irrelevant? It's the whole conversation.
I could say that people in Belarus don't particularly care for cricket and that a cricket player is unlikely to win their world sportsperson of the world award if they have one. Telling me that cricket is a rather prestigious sport if you look at how many millions of people in the the world like it doesn't change that. They'll find it harder to win that award if the people there aren't into it, and Salah faces a harder time to win the Balon D'or because not as many people are into AFCON as they are other tournaments. At least the people who vote seemingly aren't.
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No, the point he made was that it wasn't a major tournament when it actually is. It's really that simple.
Salah of course has had a stellar career. However as per his own ultra-high standards, if he never wins AFCON during his career, having lost in 2 finals, and with Egypt having won it 3 times in a row from 2006-2010 before he was on the scene, that will clearly be a big career regret for him. IMO an international trophy, regardless of how much of a bearing it would have in terms of Ballon d'Or voting, would elevate his career further.
Again per those own ultra-high standards, he has made it clear many times how frustrated he has been not to have won more Champions Leagues / Premier Leagues during his career. 2022, losing in the AFCON final against Senegal with his club teammate Mane, then a month later losing to that same Senegal team in a decisive World Cup qualification playoff thus missing out on the first ever World Cup in the Arab World, missing out on the Premier League title on the final day of the season (Villa going 2-0 up away to City gave him and Liverpool huge hope there), and losing in the Champions League final, clearly would have been a frustrating year for him.
Yaya Toure won numerous big trophies with Barcelona and Man City. However IIRC he talked about how winning AFCON in 2015, after losing in the 2006 and 2012 finals, was his main career highlight. That was also helped by the 'less is more' factor, and him having far fewer opportunities to win something at international level helping to make it even more special.
Again per those own ultra-high standards, he has made it clear many times how frustrated he has been not to have won more Champions Leagues / Premier Leagues during his career. 2022, losing in the AFCON final against Senegal with his club teammate Mane, then a month later losing to that same Senegal team in a decisive World Cup qualification playoff thus missing out on the first ever World Cup in the Arab World, missing out on the Premier League title on the final day of the season (Villa going 2-0 up away to City gave him and Liverpool huge hope there), and losing in the Champions League final, clearly would have been a frustrating year for him.
Yaya Toure won numerous big trophies with Barcelona and Man City. However IIRC he talked about how winning AFCON in 2015, after losing in the 2006 and 2012 finals, was his main career highlight. That was also helped by the 'less is more' factor, and him having far fewer opportunities to win something at international level helping to make it even more special.
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I really do want to like AFCON but whenever I watched it including finals it's been an abysmal and dire affair.
However its Understandable why so many player pride themselves on it, it would have been surprising otherwise as nothing beats the national euphoria induced by a cup win.
However its Understandable why so many player pride themselves on it, it would have been surprising otherwise as nothing beats the national euphoria induced by a cup win.
Haha indeed, nicely put.