Its a tournament that interferes unnecessarily with the season. The fact they cant sort this out given how it effectively restricts clubs from signing more than a few Africans is mind-boggling.
AFCON: Does it need and deserve more respect as a tournament?
- Thread starter SilentWitness
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AFCON tends to get a decent amount of coverage in UK nowadays so can't really complain - not checked viewing figures but I expect more people watch it than the Copa due to time zones.
Copa America is like La Liga - it's all about Brazil v Argentina. Whereas AFCON has a more general interest.
Obviously PL supporters will moan that players are missing - would be less of an issue if it was every 4 years like the other continental cups.
AFCON does still suffer from poor organisation and governance from CAF though - hopefully Morocco will deliver a scandal free tournament this year.
Copa America is like La Liga - it's all about Brazil v Argentina. Whereas AFCON has a more general interest.
Obviously PL supporters will moan that players are missing - would be less of an issue if it was every 4 years like the other continental cups.
AFCON does still suffer from poor organisation and governance from CAF though - hopefully Morocco will deliver a scandal free tournament this year.
The AFCON obviously does deserve more respect, because idiot Carragher was on live television arrogantly scoffing at the very idea that it is a notable tournament. That's disrespectful in and of itself.
The main reason that AFCON and African national teams are not as good as the South American or Europeans teams, is because most top prospects that can play for African nations, get poached by the higher reputation nations.
Look at the amount of French national team players that opted to play for France rather than the African nation they are also eligible for, it is the same for the likes of Germany and England etc.
Look at the amount of French national team players that opted to play for France rather than the African nation they are also eligible for, it is the same for the likes of Germany and England etc.
Carragher being a dickhead shocker. This question has no right or wrong answer. It depends on who answers it. But one thing is for certain we need to respect other continents' competition as much as they respect ours.
You mean that it's because they play for the country they are born in and where they grew up? The parallel for South America would be for top prospects Italian or spanish decents to play for Italy or Spain.
So the main reason is that foreigners don't play for their countries?
How many of these players were born in France though or their eligibility is either due to parental or even older ties to another country? You would expect someone to feel more French than Ghanaian if they were born and raised in France.
They took are players!!!!
The vast majority of those players were born and raised in France, so I've got literally no idea what you're talking about. You sound a lot like an Argentine footballer on a bus.....
Carragher scoffed at the idea that it is as big as the Euros or Copa America. How is that disrespectful?
He’s hardly saying anything crazy here.
He’s hardly saying anything crazy here.
There were probably just as many players from the last squad eligible for Jamaica as there were for any African nation.
As far as I can tell, all but Geuhi were born in England, and even then Geuhi was raised in England from the age of one.
The only international tournament that matters is the World Cup. All the others are regional interest, with Copa and Euros considered higher due to prestige, quality and infrastructure.
Yeah. Unless you’re supporting your country, majority of the time people are just wishing their players just come back quicker from the tournament instead of going missing mid-season.
If it rules Onana out of a few United games, I’ll give it major respect
You don't have to go that far. Imagine insisting that Bukayo Saka should play for Nigeria? Or Danny Welbeck for Ghana? Of course they can if they want to, and those nations would welcome them. But in terms of football culture, they know nothing but England.
The French guys are as different from their African parents as Saka and Welbeck are from theirs. When Welbeck opens his mouth, you hear a Mancunian. When Mbappe opens his mouth, you'll hear a Parisien, not someone from Cameroon. But because it's French, people tend to think there's no difference.
The AFCON is a fantastic tournament that can be both A) not on par with the Euros in terms of quality and B) severely underrated by European fans with regards to how entertaining and difficult to win it is.
"Poaching" what are you even on about? They are all French. I am happy more players have been opting to play for other countries they identify with over the last few years, especially in the context of European nations becoming more overtly racist by the minute, but pretending those that do represent their birth countries have not done so out of their own agency is just regurgitating far right rhetoric.
Out of 26 French players at the WC22, only 3 were not born in France. 2 of them immigrated from African countries before the age of two, and the last one was born in Italy due to being the son of national legend Lilian Thuram who spent a lot of time in Serie A.
"Poaching" what are you even on about? They are all French. I am happy more players have been opting to play for other countries they identify with over the last few years, especially in the context of European nations becoming more overtly racist by the minute, but pretending those that do represent their birth countries have not done so out of their own agency is just regurgitating far right rhetoric.
The number of players born in an African country but chose to represent a European nation is probably minimal. Desailly is the highest profile player I can think of, but even he moved to France at 4 years old and he was developed entirely by the French football system/infrastructure, so he wouldn’t be classed as ‘poached’ , the same way no one has ever accused England of poaching Sterling even though he was born in Jamaica and lived there till he was 5.
Funnily enough France is the country that has the most players that do not play for France at nearly all World Cups and it's not even close. As an example here you have the 2018 World Cup.
To be fair Anglo-centric spheres are complaining about international football all the time whether it's in Africa or elsewhere. The Euros (or dare I say, Nations League) threads are always miserable around here.
The question here is: does your soil of birth determine your nationality over your parental lineage?Funnily enough France is the country that has the most players that do not play for France at nearly all World Cups and it's not even close. As an example here you have the 2018 World Cup.
While I get your point, I think this argument is the same as the one you’re countering in the other direction. The fact that some of those players were born in France doesn’t make their French citizenship above the citizenship they obtained from their immigrant parents. Most (if not all) are dual-citizens who picked to represent their other nation for varying reasons, not least of which is the fact they might not have been picked by France anyway.
I think the point is more that we shouldn't assume one way or another how someone defines their identity in terms of nationality or culture in these debates.
You determine your nationality yourself. And you don't seem to get my point, I'm in no place to decide whether someone should represent a country or an other and I definitely shouldn't suggest that someone that he is born and bred in a country shouldn't represent that country, has been poached by that country or that an other country has any right over them.
@JPRouve stop poaching are players!!!!
A bit late to this but did the scumbag spitter Carragher really call Rio a clown? Inbred loser needs to learn his place and respect PL royalty.
Yes but more importantly Jamie Carragher deserves less respect as a pundit.
It means a lot to people in AFCON countries. That was the point. Doesn't really matter if we rate it or not.
It was just a comment that is being blown out of proportion.
It was just a comment that is being blown out of proportion.
It is definitely below the World Cup or the Euros in terms of quality.
I’d say it is on par with the Copa América. While Brazil and Argentina are bigger names, South America has only 10 countries, whereas Africa is a vast continent with numerous national teams, many of which are considered heavyweights—at least within African football. Matches between any two of these teams are often closely watched and highly intense: Egypt, Cameroon, Nigeria, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Ghana, Senegal, Côte d'Ivoire, and South Africa. That’s a lot of strong teams. Even if some are going through a rough patch, you can always count on at least four to be highly competitive, making for an exciting tournament.
I’d say it is on par with the Copa América. While Brazil and Argentina are bigger names, South America has only 10 countries, whereas Africa is a vast continent with numerous national teams, many of which are considered heavyweights—at least within African football. Matches between any two of these teams are often closely watched and highly intense: Egypt, Cameroon, Nigeria, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Ghana, Senegal, Côte d'Ivoire, and South Africa. That’s a lot of strong teams. Even if some are going through a rough patch, you can always count on at least four to be highly competitive, making for an exciting tournament.
The Southern Hemisphere is still part of the world, and with about two-thirds of Africa lying there, teams from those regions can only play during what we in the Northern Hemisphere consider summer. I also believe the weather in many parts of Africa presents far greater challenges than in much of Latin America.
Agreed, Africa needs to sort out the weather. It shouldn't be that difficult to prevent heavy rains during the rain season.
This is not a question that requires much debate. Your nationality is where you were born and/or raised, because culturally, that is what you are. A person who was born in France of African immigrant parents, and who has lived in France their entire life, is going to think and act like a French person, not someone from the immigrant country. There is a huge difference.
it is the racism that has always existed in Europe that makes second and third generation immigrants want to sometimes identify with and claim the nation of their parents/grandparents. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But the culture that they grew up in is still going to have a huge influence on them.
And I absolutely agree with that.
Both ways I agree with this. I probably misunderstood you when you said:
Considering those players as French first and foremost was what I was disagreeing with.
Hahahaha great post and excellent response to those who keep asking for the AFCON to be played during the European summer.
You don’t seem to understand what it feels like to have dual citizenship. I personally know lots of children of immigrants (who either moved at a young age or born abroad) who keep very strong ties with their second homeland (their parents’ land), come home for vacation very regularly, and who would call you crazy for making that statement.
The point was about french nationals and french players developed by the french system, it had nothing to do with a hierarchy of nationality. The truth of the matter is that french players developed and raised in France are more often poached by other nations than foreign players developed and raised abroad are poached by France.
Didn't Sadio Mane come 2nd on the back of beating Salah in the AFCON more or less a few years back? Has anyone ever got that level of a jump from winning a Copa?
I’ve never bothered with the Afcon. Partly because it was on mid season and secondly in all honesty I don’t know much about the sides outside of 3-4 teams
There’s like zero hype in the uk about this tournament. I don’t know anybody who’s actively watched it and me and my friends are massive football fans
There’s like zero hype in the uk about this tournament. I don’t know anybody who’s actively watched it and me and my friends are massive football fans
He was 2nd yeah, but very far behind the winner Benzema. It was also the season where Liverpool almost did the quad. Finished a point behind City in the league and CL finalist losing to Madrid.
Well, to be fair, given the split votes and Benzema being the sole true player to vote at RM with his levels, the gap makes sense. I just meant that the AFCON heavily influenced Mane's jump over a far higher profile player in his own teammate Salah.
These non Euro internationals only really added anything to the voting in the past few years, Messi 2021 and Lautaro 2024 being the others to seemingly get votes for being on those winning teams. They also complimented good club form/honours. None of these trophies, including the Euros, give you the win of the tournament alone like a WC run can do.
Judges whose votes matter care less about AFCON than its euro and Copa america counterpart.
It is a fact.
Others' opinion doesn't feature in the equation.
Ergo Carra was right, Rio was just playing the easy high morale ground role.
Slow day in the news room.
It is a fact.
Others' opinion doesn't feature in the equation.
Ergo Carra was right, Rio was just playing the easy high morale ground role.
Slow day in the news room.
That’s exactly what I’m talking about, referring to them as players developed by the French system sounds better than just calling them “French players” because they have dual citizenship. Thus, by accusing others of poaching them you’re no better than those accusing France of poaching their nationals. The fact they were developed by the French system/raised in France, but have dual citizenship, doesn’t translate into poaching if they play for their other nationality. They have the right to represent any of the countries they belong to, like Joel Matip who picked to play for Cameroon over Germany very young due to his father’s influence.
Why don't you think I would understand that? I said what I said, those people you know who have such 'strong ties to their 'second homeland' but don't actually live there can think whatever they like.