Adrien Rabiot / completing formalities at Juventus

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JPRouve said:
That's my point you didn't ask for someone that always does it and I gave you an answer which you rejected because it wasn't always the case.
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You point is exactly different. The point of the discussion is that having Pogba who has established himself to play on the left with Rabiot as a left foot midfielder who hasn’t established himself playing on the right.

In your case, Rabiot was forced to play on the right because of an injury. In my question, a left foot player isn’t forced to play because there is an injury but they will play there week in week out.

The same with Saul, every time I watched him play in central, he plays on the left. I don’t watch Atlético Madrid week in week out so I don’t know if he ever plays on the right central midfield, you are using him playing on the right as a right midfielder which is different to the question.
 
Stobzilla said:
I think Rabiot has a higher ceiling than Herrera purely on talent but Herrera brings a steel to midfield and certain intangiables that might not be there with Rabiot.

I think, over the course of a season in a more advanced role that Rabiot gets you more goals and assits he can also do good work defensively. He can be a good rotation option for Pogba and I am sure can be talked around into doing the odd job at number 6 in Matic's stead.

All for no initial trasfer fee, for me it is worth a shot. Ole seems the type who would be able to manage him correctly.
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Also its worth pointing out that at present we play a system with three midfielders and have a total of three midfielder who are good enough to start serious games. That's not sustainable in the long term.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
You point is exactly different. The point of the discussion is that having Pogba who has established himself to play on the left with Rabiot as a left foot midfielder who hasn’t established himself playing on the right.

In your case, Rabiot was forced to play on the right because of an injury. In my question, a left foot player isn’t forced to play because there is an injury but they will play there week in week out.

The same with Saul, every time I watched him play in central, he plays on the left. I don’t watch Atlético Madrid week in week out so I don’t know if he ever plays on the right central midfield, you are using him playing on the right as a right midfielder which is different to the question.
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You have no point, you made a claim and you were wrong.
 
crossy1686 said:
I thought this lad was a CB? But he's actually a DM? I've heard his name all season due to his fallout but is he even that good?
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He’s a DM who doesn’t like playing at DM and has massive attitude problems.

Would be a great Matic replacement but seems like his head is not quite right.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Rabiot has been playing on the left side through his career. And he’s a left foot player not either foot player so let’s not making things up just to defense yourself.

I never question a right foot player to perform better on the left side. My main concern is you expect a left foot player like Rabiot plays on the right side. You can talk whatever you want about the right foot player but Rabiot is a left foot player and he’s been playing on the left side through his professional career.

Give me proofs when he plays on the right side and name me left foot midfielders who plays on the right side.
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
You point is exactly different. The point of the discussion is that having Pogba who has established himself to play on the left with Rabiot as a left foot midfielder who hasn’t established himself playing on the right.

In your case, Rabiot was forced to play on the right because of an injury. In my question, a left foot player isn’t forced to play because there is an injury but they will play there week in week out.

The same with Saul, every time I watched him play in central, he plays on the left. I don’t watch Atlético Madrid week in week out so I don’t know if he ever plays on the right central midfield, you are using him playing on the right as a right midfielder which is different to the question.
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Saul has played plenty of games on the right side of midfield, a lot of times even on the right wing. Bernardo and David Silva has no problem played on the right side. There are also Fred, Dembele and Rafinha. Plenty of other left-footed midfielder that play on the right side. I don't know how you get the idea that no left-footed midfielder can be comfortable playing on right side
 
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
If you want to prove people wrong, provide evidence don’t just talk.
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That's a bit rich when you provided absolutely nothing while I told you when he did it. Between 2014 and 2016 Rabiot played on the right a fair amount of time, Matuidi has been tried there but he isn't good at all. Rabiot played all midfield positions for PSG because he was the fourth midfielder, the one replacing Motta, Matuidi or Verratti. When he is fit Verratti will always play on the right because it's his position which means that Rabiot will compete for one of the other role, it has nothing to do with an inability to do it.

In these videos you will see that he plays everywhere:





Also when Verratti wasn't playing there was only left footed players in that midfield.
 
Fellaini is gone, McTomonay is with the u23 squad now, Fred has failed to spark here and Pereira is a major doubt. We need a midfielder in the summer quite badly, we can’t play the same 3 all the time. He’d fit the bill, I reckon, football wise.

As for where he’d play, since he’s not fond of being a DM, well that’s the easy part imo. Box-to-box from the right side. Herrera played his best year under Mourinho as DM he can fill that role perfectly when Matic is being rested and Rabiot is playing.

He’d basically be competing for the same spot with Fred and most likely be ahead of him. While I think Pereira will either leave or be shifted a bit further up field and become an understudy to Pogba as a creative midfielder. Regista does not suit him yet, maybe later in his career. It requires a lot of maturity and calmness.

Also isn’t 10m a year not ~200k pw? That quite reasonable if the sign on fee is not above 20m. I mean, think that you’d have to spend at least 50m to buy him from PSG if he was under contract. You can consider pet of the salary as transfer fee amortisation. Like Ramsey at Juve.
 
The Ramsey-Juventus transfer has kinda fecked things for free transfers now. This dude will want similar wages. But if the €10m a year rumor is true then its a good deal given it probably includes his signing bonus spread of the contract. That's £167k a week.
 
Trizy said:
The Ramsey-Juventus transfer has kinda fecked things for free transfers now. This dude will want similar wages. But if the €10m a year rumor is true then its a good deal given it probably includes his signing bonus spread of the contract. That's £167k a week.
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Pretty sure it's 10m net, that's normally how they report wages in the euro media anyway.
 
Dong Fangzhuo said:
Pretty sure it's 10m net, that's normally how they report wages in the euro media anyway.
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£243k a week net. Again if you factor a £30m sign on over the 4+1 years it'd work out at £127.6k a week :lol:. Obviously the problem with a future renewal is you potentially keep him on the same or a higher wage. At least by 3 or 4 years you'll know if he's good enough to warrant them or you could just move him on.
 
Trizy said:
£243k a week net. Again if you factor a £30m sign on over the 4+1 years it'd work out at £127.6k a week :lol:. Obviously the problem with a future renewal is you potentially keep him on the same or a higher wage. At least by 3 or 4 years you'll know if he's good enough to warrant them or you could just move him on.
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10m / 52w is 192k pw net. Not 243.

Also what tells us that he doesn’t want a 20-30m sign-on fee on top of 10m net? I mean arguably you would have to pay easily 50m to get him from PSG and you would call yourself happy to pay that to have him. Why would the player not ask for half of that up front and half amortised with his weekly salary?

After all it’s a cost equivalent to paying PSG 50m and giving him ~100k pw. Still represents a good deal. Pretty sure Fred and Keita cost more than that in total.
 
MadMike said:
10m / 52w is 192k pw net. Not 243.

Also what tells us that he doesn’t want a 20-30m sign-on fee on top of 10m net? I mean arguably you would have to pay easily 50m to get him from PSG and you would call yourself happy to pay that to have him. Why would the player not ask for half of that up front and half amortised with his weekly salary?

After all it’s a cost equivalent to paying PSG 50m and giving him ~100k pw. Still represents a good deal. Pretty sure Fred and Keita cost more than that in total.
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net €10m euro = £8.77m x 45% tax = £12.7165m / 52wk =£244k it would cost the club.
 
Fracture90 said:
Guys 30 million sign-on bonus is just ludicrous, no club would pay that much.
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It's just for an example. But if you look at Ramsey's wages, €30m is probably what he got because he's not worth anywhere near €400k.
 
Trizy said:
net €10m euro = £8.77m x 45% tax = £12.7165m / 52wk =£244k it would cost the club.
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This is the point where I have to remind you that you said 244k net previously. Not gross. What you have there is a gross salary.
 
Trizy said:
Minor error Officer :angel:
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No worries. Point stands that if half of that 240-odd thousand per week is the amortisation of a sign on fee, the other half (or ~120k gross) seems quite reasonable for a salary these days.
 
MadMike said:
No worries. Point stands that if half of that 240-odd thousand per week is the amortisation of a sign on fee, the other half (or ~120k gross) seems quite reasonable for a salary these days.
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Yup it does indeed. Very little risk too IMO because you're always gonna be able offload a highly rated 23 year old midfielder for more than £30m. In today's market we'd probably make a decent profit.
 
Trizy said:
net €10m euro = £8.77m x 45% tax = £12.7165m / 52wk =£244k it would cost the club.
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I maybe wrong here but you are applying tax for net wages instead of gross wage isn't it?

https://salaryaftertax.com/it

If Juventus pays around 19 million Euros then Ramsey will get 10 million net wages. (45% of 19 million).
 
Trizy said:
It's just for an example. But if you look at Ramsey's wages, €30m is probably what he got because he's not worth anywhere near €400k.
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Don't think he's on that much, think some media outlets got too carried away with their writers freedom tbh, news after that one reported he's on around 250k.
 
Be absolutely ridiculous if we don't take a proper look at him. He's a good player, he's young and he's free.

Definitely need somebody like him or Tielsmann who has a bit of craft on the ball. Can't be so heavily reliant on Pogba.
 
Ish said:
I’m not sure what that poster wants, because they asked a question, you provided an answer and all of a sudden the answer never addressed the question :lol:
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This latest batch of newbies are rather confrontational imo.
 
roonster09 said:
I maybe wrong here but you are applying tax for net wages instead of gross wage isn't it?

https://salaryaftertax.com/it

If Juventus pays around 19 million Euros then Ramsey will get 10 million net wages. (45% of 19 million).
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I'm applying 45% tax onto what he's looking for (€10m net) to see what it will cost the club. £8.77m/year (converted to pounds) x 1.45 (45%) = 244k/wk. Could be doing it wrong, not an accountant or in pay roll.
 
Ish said:
I’m not sure what that poster wants, because they asked a question, you provided an answer and all of a sudden the answer never addressed the question :lol:
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It's just weird, particularly in a thread about Rabiot since one of his main qualities is that he is a jack of all trades and he plays at a good to very good level in all the areas of a midfield 3. If we were talking about Matuidi then he would have a point because he is bad on the right.
 
Trizy said:
I'm applying 45% tax onto what he's looking for (€10m net) to see what it will cost the club. £8.77m/year (converted to pounds) x 1.45 (45%) = 244k/wk. Could be doing it wrong, not an accountant or in pay roll.
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Yeah, to get 10 million net, he should earn 19 million gross. 45% tax is on gross wage.

I don't think 10 million net wage is correct, if it is, then it will cost 19 million for Juventus.

There is a tax calculator, give 19 million as gross salary, you will get 10 million as net wages.
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah, to get 10 million net, he should earn 19 million gross. 45% tax is on gross wage.

I don't think 10 million net wage is correct, if it is, then it will cost 19 million for Juventus.

There is a tax calculator, give 19 million as gross salary, you will get 10 million as net wages.
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Sorry I'm talking about Rabiot :lol:. Not sure what the tax rate is in Italy for sports stars.
 
roonster09 said:
Even for Rabiot, to get 8.7 Million pounds net wages, Club should pay him 16.5 million gross wages which is close to 315-320k per week.

https://salaryaftertax.com/uk
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Which is fair when you consider that you don't have to buy his registration. We are not used to it in football but we should take it into account, players aren't always mugs, if they create a situation where you can have them for nothing, they will demand to be remunerated accordingly. In the end the club still wins, particularly when we are talking about a 23 years old player.
 
JPRouve said:
Which is fair when you consider that you don't have to buy his registration. We are not used to it in football but we should take it into account, players aren't always mugs, if they create a situation where you can have them for nothing, they will demand to be remunerated accordingly. In the end the club still wins, particularly when we are talking about a 23 years old player.
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Well yeah, I was just correcting @Trizy 's calculation.

Btw one more problem with free players is the contract renewals of other players, as we saw with Sanchez. I wouldn't mind signing Rabiot. All in for signing good players and it's for Woodward and co to worry about finances.
 
Fracture90 said:
Because it's too much money on top of the high salary.
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Too much money by what measure?

Like I explained £10m net per year to the player and £25m sign-on fee works out at about the cost of Fred. Probably less in fact, since Fred would have picked up a sign-on fee on top of the £52m transfer fee and it's widely reported he's on a 6-figure weekly salary.

How does it make sense to be happy to give the money to another club but be reluctant to give it to another player? If anything it makes the deal easier as you have 1 less party to negotiate with.
 
MadMike said:
This is the point where I have to remind you that you said 244k net previously. Not gross. What you have there is a gross salary.
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I am not following anyone of you guys tbh. But it might be that I am not familiar with UK tax law. When you are discussing net and gross income/salaries its the income tax you are referring to, right? Because that is at least how I have been taught to use those terms.
Is there not an applicable pay roll tax in the UK as well? In Sweden thats 31.42 percent, even if I know we are in the extreme.
In Sweden and most European contries it would be something like this;
Gross salary 200k
Income tax -80k (depending on the size of the income tax)
Net salary (after income tax): 120k
Total cost for the club: 200k * 1,3142 (using Swedish pay roll tax) = 262,84k per week total cost for the club.
 
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