Adnan Januzaj

[Bestie07]

Change it to what, though? Pay any player with a bit of potential enormous wages so he doesn't leave? Put them all on well paid six year deals, at which point we'll never be able to shift them and we'll end up with a 55 man squad?

We've made a couple of errors in the past few years, yeah, but what's required is a bit of tweaking and a clear head. You don't throw away a successful system because it's working so well other people nick your players.

It's not about letting it reach a situation in terms of their contracts that they may demand gametime or threaten to leave. Januzaj's contract for example should have been sorted before the summer. A bit of tweaking is indeed needed because while our scouts are doing a tremendous job by unearthing all these talents, it's all going to waste if they end up leaving.

 

[Antisocial]

Hypothetically, if he signs for another team, should we give up our policy of getting these talented youngsters from abroad to our academy?

Probably not, though as has been said we haven't gotten that much success in taking those foreign players that vital step to being first team regulars.

Focusing on local/British talent doesn't guarantee their loyalty either - Fryers was a local boy but he went along with a plot to screw us out of a fair compensation fee when he moved. I guess it's a bit of a lottery how young players will react to fanciful promises from other clubs, particularly when agents get involved.

 

[Sarni]

I don't get the argument about setting a bad precedent. He's clearly heads and shoulders above most of his peers from the youth team which is why it's him getting an extended run in the first team and seriously impressing in it. You won't say tjat giving van Persie £180k set a bad precedent because we're now at risk of Jones and Valencia asking for the same sort of money.

You need to consider the circumstances - if we were to offer Januzaj £40k a week to keep him it'd be partly because there would be other clubs willing to match it and we'd have to go along to convince him to stay. In case of less talented players who aren't coveted by top clubs there'd be no such need because United would probably be their only option aside from some weaker clubs unwilling to go into high wages territory.

It wouldn't mean anything in the great scheme of things and certainly wouldn't stir up an uproar amongst other young players.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I think this is what Brophs is highlighting as the danger. Do we do that with just Januzaj, or every talented youngster that comes through? Because if we act that way as a matter of policy we are going to end up with a very large and expensive squad indeed. That is no way to run the club IMO.

We don't have to change the policy - only be willing to make exceptions when this is prudent. Which won't be all that often. Most youngsters don't look half as primed and ready as this lad does. If we offer him an uncommonly good deal it will be based on merit to an extent - and it will certainly be based on the judgment of our manager and his coaches. A no-mark can't come along two months later and demand a similar deal.

 

[Sarni]

I think this is what Brophs is highlighting as the danger. Do we do that with just Januzaj, or every talented youngster that comes through? Because if we act that way as a matter of policy we are going to end up with a very large and expensive squad indeed. That is no way to run the club IMO.

How is every other youngster going to push us into the corner asking for a better contract when they wouldn't be able to get such contract in a million years at another club? It can only happen with the cream of the crop, the best players of their age groups who are going to be sought after by a number of top European clubs and I wouldn't have any issue if all of them ended up with good deals in order to keep them.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think this is what Brophs is highlighting as the danger. Do we do that with just Januzaj, or every talented youngster that comes through? Because if we act that way as a matter of policy we are going to end up with a very large and expensive squad indeed. That is no way to run the club IMO.

We are running out of time, we have a situation here.

 

[Revan]

I think this is what Brophs is highlighting as the danger. Do we do that with just Januzaj, or every talented youngster that comes through? Because if we act that way as a matter of policy we are going to end up with a very large and expensive squad indeed. That is no way to run the club IMO.

Well, there aren't many players as talented as Januzaj, right? In the last decade only Pique, Rafael and Pogba are on that category, while from our other current players only Pereira might be in that category (though very hard to know that yet). Januzaj isn't just another talented youngster, is one of the three best young players we have produced in the last 10 years. So, if we have anohter one as good as him, then do it with him too. But of course, not with all our players.

 

[Adebesi]

How is every other youngster going to push us into the corner asking for a better contract when they wouldn't be able to get such contract in a million years at another club? It can only happen with the cream of the crop, the best players of their age groups who are going to be sought after by a number of top European clubs and I wouldn't have any issue if all of them ended up with good deals in order to keep them.

Im not saying every youngster is going to ask for the same wages as Januzaj. Im saying if every time a player looks like he might leave, but you want him to stay, you pay way over the odds and tie him up for five years, that is unsustainable. Its quite arbitrary to assume that Janujaz is some kind of special case that defies the normal rules, we were here with Pogba, we will be here with Rooney pretty soon, we'll be here every time a good player wants to negotiate his contract, and given we are United, the hope is most of our players will fall into that category.

It doesnt matter whether you pay a great player over the odds with a massive contract, or a squad player over the odds with a big contract, or a prospect over the odds with a contract that is, in the great scheme of things, quite small, but large for a player at that stage of his development. All im saying is players should get a contract that is in line with their abilities. I dont think it will take any more than that to keep him either, as I also said before.

 

[Adebesi]

Well, there aren't many players as talented as Januzaj, right? In the last decade only Pique and Pogba are on that category, while from our other current players only Pereira might be in that category (though very hard to know that yet). Januzaj isn't just another talented youngster, is one of the three best young players we have produced in the last 10 years. So, if we have anohter one as good as him, then do it with him too. But of course, not with all our players.

If that is really right then it justifies making an exception I guess. But is he really? Or are we getting a bit carried away with the hype? Im all for keeping him, Im just not sure that is true.

And when I say that, I do mean Im not sure. Maybe he is. People who watch more reserves / youth football than me will have a better idea. Seems to me there is a lot of excitement right now, and rightly so, but in the past there has been plenty of excitement about others. As I said, I only really ever watch our first team so I am only going on a handful of appearances, that is too big a call for me to make.

 

[Sarni]

He's just come in and produced a match winning performance with two goals on top of it in a tough away game where we didn't look too bright or vigorous, after his team have lost their previous two games in a slightly embarrassing manner. I'd say that he's done alright for himself so far and well enough to be considered amongst the best players we've produced over the decade.

 

[Adebesi]

He's just come in and produced a match winning performance with two goals on top of it in a tough away game where we didn't look too bright or vigorous, after his team have lost their previous two games in a slightly embarrassing manner. I'd say that he's done alright for himself so far and well enough to be considered amongst the best players we've produced over the decade.

Well the context of the previous games might be different, but Macheda put in a league winning performance a few years ago. Lucky we didnt get too carried away and pay him way over the odds. I get that he is a very exciting prospect, I just think, as ever, the pendulum has over-swung here. Hardly surprising, that is the way of this place.

 

[Adebesi]

Out of interest, just to be clear, who are the three? Pogba, Morrison and Januzaj?

If so, anyone notice a recency bias here?

 

[Genius Me!]

If that is really right then it justifies making an exception I guess. But is he really? Or are we getting a bit carried away with the hype? Im all for keeping him, Im just not sure that is true.

And when I say that, I do mean Im not sure. Maybe he is. People who watch more reserves / youth football than me will have a better idea. Seems to me there is a lot of excitement right now, and rightly so, but in the past there has been plenty of excitement about others. As I said, I only really ever watch our first team so I am only going on a handful of appearances, that is too big a call for me to make.

Well them don't make the call, because you're making the wrong one IMO.

 

[Genius Me!]

Well the context of the previous games might be different, but Macheda put in a league winning performance a few years ago. Lucky we didnt get too carried away and pay him way over the odds. I get that he is a very exciting prospect, I just think, as ever, the pendulum has over-swung here. Hardly surprising, that is the way of this place.

And you're making all your judgements whilst alluding to the fact that you don't watch reserve/academy matches. So how can you say people are getting carried away when you know virtually nothing about the kid?

Out of interest, just to be clear, who are the three? Pogba, Morrison and Januzaj?

If so, anyone notice a recency bias here?

Recency bias? What in the hell are you going on about? You seem to think that the hype surrounding Januzaj has come after a couple first team appearances, maybe his mainstream hype yes, but none of it is unjustified. And FYI, Januzaj has far outshone anything that Pogba and Morrison used to do for the reserves.

I also don't get why you're comparing him to Macheda, completely different players with completely different levels.

 

[Striker10]

Well the context of the previous games might be different, but Macheda put in a league winning performance a few years ago. Lucky we didnt get too carried away and pay him way over the odds. I get that he is a very exciting prospect, I just think, as ever, the pendulum has over-swung here. Hardly surprising, that is the way of this place.

Kiko was a good goalscorer but not a great player. He's not that quick, he was very raw.

 

[elmo]

The way I see it, Januzaj is a special talent and should be properly awarded. Do you think the likes of Ronaldo and Rooney deserve a higher starting pay when they signed for us or should their pay be aligned to what we pay our players of a similar age? The club has a good policy when it comes to giving youth players a contract, but there should be some flexibility reserved for the exceptions.

From all the rumours so far, what Januzaj wants isn't too ridiculous, 20k/week and 100k signing on fee is a joke compared to what we'll need to fork out for a player of his talents on a transfer.

 

[Adebesi]

And you're making all your judgements whilst alluding to the fact that you don't watch reserve/academy matches. So how can you say people are getting carried away when you know virtually nothing about the kid?



Recency bias? What in the hell are you going on about? You seem to think that the hype surrounding Januzaj has come after a couple first team appearances, maybe his mainstream hype yes, but none of it is unjustified. And FYI, Januzaj has far outshone anything that Pogba and Morrison used to do for the reserves.

I also don't get why you're comparing him to Macheda, completely different players with completely different levels.

I dont know people are getting carried away, I just suspect they are. Its hard to take the opinions of people on here too seriously because I dont know any of you personally, I dont know who is really clued up on youth football and who is getting carried away by the media-fuelled excitement.

Anyway, as you rightfully point out, and as I conceded, I know hardly anything about the boy. I want him to stay, but in general terms I feel it is a questionable policy to pay way over the odds to force his hand and put the matter to bed. If that is the wrong call in this instance then fair enough.

Oh and I wasnt comparing him to Macheda in the way you are implying, I was just saying their situations were similar in that they had a great performance that won a game. In Macheda's case that game was more important, it won us the league. It was in response to what Sarni said.

 

[Adebesi]

Recency bias? What in the hell are you going on about? You seem to think that the hype surrounding Januzaj has come after a couple first team appearances, maybe his mainstream hype yes, but none of it is unjustified. And FYI, Januzaj has far outshone anything that Pogba and Morrison used to do for the reserves.

Recency bias, the tendency to attach greater significance to recent events. But yes, you are right I am reacting against mainstream hype here. As I said before, you GM, or any other individual on here, may stay up until 3am every night watching and rewatching youth and reserve games, analysing our players. Some people do that. Its just I dont know who does that, and who is influenced by mainstream hype. Anyone who ddclares themselves to be seriously clued up, to objectively believe Januzaj is on a different level to Pogba or Morrison (despite both of those being regarded as the best thing since sliced bread not so long ago) then fair enough.

 

[Adebesi]

Who are the three best players we have produced in the last decade then? Januzaj is better than Pogba or Morrison, who were both talked about so highly. So who are the other two? Rafael I guess is one.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Who are the three best players we have produced in the last decade then? Januzaj is better than Pogba or Morrison, who were both talked about so highly. So who are the other two? Rafael I guess is one.

Januzaj better than Pogba? How can you say that? Pogba's played a full season at the highest level, won the league as a regular, and become a French international.

 

[Genius Me!]

Can't say we produced Rafael, he came to us at 18. Even Pogba and Januzaj came well into the development.

If you really want to get technical, then you'd have to say that Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley are the best 3 players we've produced in the last 10 years with Morrison fast climbing into that bracket.

 

[Genius Me!]

Januzaj better than Pogba? How can you say that? Pogba's played a full season at the highest level, won the league as a regular, and become a French international.

Read the conversation, he isn't saying that, he's responding to what I said in that Januzaj has done more at reserve level than Pogba did. I'd say with some certainty that if you compare Pogba's last season in reserves, and Januzaj's then he was far better.

 

[lysglimt]

And you're making all your judgements whilst alluding to the fact that you don't watch reserve/academy matches. So how can you say people are getting carried away when you know virtually nothing about the kid?



Recency bias? What in the hell are you going on about? You seem to think that the hype surrounding Januzaj has come after a couple first team appearances, maybe his mainstream hype yes, but none of it is unjustified. And FYI, Januzaj has far outshone anything that Pogba and Morrison used to do for the reserves.

I also don't get why you're comparing him to Macheda, completely different players with completely different levels.

Not too hard considering Morrison practically never played in the reserves

 

[Adebesi]

Januzaj better than Pogba? How can you say that? Pogba's played a full season at the highest level, won the league as a regular, and become a French international.

I dont necessarily think that, I was conceding that point to GM:

Januzaj has far outshone anything that Pogba and Morrison used to do for the reserves.

If you read the last dozen or so posts it should make my comment clearer in the context.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Yeah, I understand.

 

[Genius Me!]

Not too hard considering Morrison practically never played in the reserves

Yeah, I wish I watched the academy when he was still here because by the time I started watching he wasn't getting in the damn team.

 

[Name Changed]

I think this is what Brophs is highlighting as the danger. Do we do that with just Januzaj, or every talented youngster that comes through? Because if we act that way as a matter of policy we are going to end up with a very large and expensive squad indeed. That is no way to run the club IMO.

Very few players come through with that type of potential.

And if other clubs are prepared to pay him what he's worth, then we should also. If we don't, and we lose him, it's our fault.

 

[RexHamilton]

Can't say we produced Rafael, he came to us at 18. Even Pogba and Januzaj came well into the development.

If you really want to get technical, then you'd have to say that Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley are the best 3 players we've produced in the last 10 years with Morrison fast climbing into that bracket.

Agree with this. Yes, we aided their development and probably made them better players than they would have become elsewhere, thanks to our academy and coaches, but we can't claim to have produced players that we 'bought' when they were 17 or even 16.

 

[Adebesi]

If other clubs are prepared to pay him what he's worth, then we should also. If we don't, and we lose him, it's our fault.

I absolutely agree with that. I said something similar here:

We just have to accept we have to pay up if and when they make it. And the job of the manager is to determine when the market is pricing a young player accurately, and when it is inflated. If someone offers Janujaz a wage that is far beyond how good he actually is, then we let him go. But it is naive to think as long as you get kids young enough you arent going to have to pay for them.

I was specifically arguing against this point:

we should offer him a contract he could not refuse. Whatever he asked give him 10k more (30k-40k), don't give him time to even think, and don't let other clubs having chance to offer him a better contract. Make him feel important here, and secure him for 5 more years first.

Dont get me wrong, I can see the appeal of this strategy. And maybe in this case it is the right thing to do, that is someone elses call to make. I have just been arguing for a slightly more considered approach, matching what other clubs offer rather than blowing them away with a massive, preemptive offer of our own.

Either way it is probably too late for what RedRonaldo suggests anyway if reports that Chelsea have already made a big offer are to be believed. If his agent is determined to play the field and assess his market value there isnt much we can do about it now.

 

[MDFC Manager]

If money is the only issue, I'm 100 per cent sure we'll sort it out. I don't think we've ever had a player leave us just because we didn't offer them enough money. Therefore, I'm not worried here.

 

[Bestie07]

If money is the only issue, I'm 100 per cent sure we'll sort it out. I don't think we've ever had a player leave us just because we didn't offer them enough money. Therefore, I'm not worried here.

Yeah, should not be a problem. But we have lost each of our talented youngsters for different reasons so far.

Rossi - Too much competition. Pique - Barcelona calling. Pogba - Lack of chances/Raiola. Morrison - Gangster.

Who's to say the next one won't be because of a new reason, and the next reason won't be money.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Yeah, should not be a problem. But we have lost each of our talented youngsters for different reasons so far.

Rossi - Too much competition. Pique - Barcelona calling. Pogba - Lack of chances/Raiola. Morrison - Gangster.

Who's to say the next one won't be because of a new reason, and the next reason won't be money.

If we've never had a player leave us because we didn't offer enough money and Januzaj is the first one to do so, I'd probably feel his demands were way excessive for such an unprecedented thing to occur.

 

[Revan]

Out of interest, just to be clear, who are the three? Pogba, Morrison and Januzaj?

If so, anyone notice a recency bias here?

For some strange reason, I forgot Rafael. I definitely think that Januzaj is in the category of Rafael, Pogba and Pique. Never thought that Morrison will be great, decent player and a godd squad player but I didn't cared that much when he left.

If that is really right then it justifies making an exception I guess. But is he really? Or are we getting a bit carried away with the hype? Im all for keeping him, Im just not sure that is true.

I think that he has been better than the other I mentioned for our young categories. Only 10 months ago he was still playing for U18 when he was the best player there, he then got promoted on U21 and was easily the best player there. Moyes took him on tour when he shined again and now looks very good for the first team. My opinion (and the opinion of many others here) has nothing to do with his last performance.

 

[Revan]

Can't say we produced Rafael, he came to us at 18. Even Pogba and Januzaj came well into the development.

If you really want to get technical, then you'd have to say that Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley are the best 3 players we've produced in the last 10 years with Morrison fast climbing into that bracket.

All of them came at United when they were 16 years old. So, I think it's fair to say that we produced them.

 

[Adebesi]

Yeah, should not be a problem. But we have lost each of our talented youngsters for different reasons so far.

Rossi - Too much competition. Pique - Barcelona calling. Pogba - Lack of chances/Raiola. Morrison - Gangster.

Who's to say the next one won't be because of a new reason, and the next reason won't be money.

Too much competition and lack of chances - arent they effectively the same thing?

That may well be the deciding factor for a young player who just wants to be playing. Looks like Moyes trusts him though, so hopefully thatll also work in our favour.

 

[Bestie07]

Too much competition and lack of chances - arent they effectively the same thing?

Nope. I don't want to spell it out, but try to see the difference between Rossi's and Pogba's path to the first team and you may get an idea of what I meant.

 

[Genius Me!]

All of them came at United when they were 16 years old. So, I think it's fair to say that we produced them.

Rafael came to us at 18. And you can't really say we produced players who came to us at 16, they would have gone on to be great players had they not come to us at that age, all the hard work was already done. We just aided their development, I wouldn't call that us producing them.

 

[Revan]

Rafael came to us at 18. And you can't really say we produced players who came to us at 16, they would have gone on to be great players had they not come to us at that age, all the hard work was already done. We just aided their development, I wouldn't call that us producing them.

Da Silva twins came here when they were 16, but couldn't play for us until they became 18 years old because non EU citizens can't play on EU if they are younger than 16 years old.

Personally, I think that if you sign a player when he's 16, you can claim that you produced him.

 

[Genius Me!]

Da Silva twins came here when they were 16, but couldn't play for us until they became 18 years old because non EU citizens can't play on EU if they are younger than 16 years old.

Personally, I think that if you sign a player when he's 16, you can claim that you produced him.

Are you sure? I recall them staying at their club til they were 18 but were unable to play.

Either way, we'll have to disagree on our views on producing. I think we definitely had a hand in it no doubt, but very much at the latter stages.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well the context of the previous games might be different, but Macheda put in a league winning performance a few years ago. Lucky we didnt get too carried away and pay him way over the odds. I get that he is a very exciting prospect, I just think, as ever, the pendulum has over-swung here. Hardly surprising, that is the way of this place.

You still don't get the point, we are having an urgent situation here. If he doesn't sign the contract soon, in 1 to 2 month time, he could talk to any club who are interested in him, and there are plenty of them waiting in line for his signature. We just can't afford the risk. He could be our next 30m rated player with the glimpse of potential he has shown so far, do you not agree?