Active players who will go down as all-time greats in their position?

Rooney in Paris said:
He has been mentioned a few times in fairness, but it's true that the PSG years and now Saudi have likely tarnished his legacy forever.

Tone down the arrogance in your posts, it's getting tiresome.
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Yeah, the poster that usually replies to even these emojis and one-liners with a detailed post, just to be hit with another emoji and one-liner to those as well should tone it down.

Maybe I shouldn't bother replying to people who clearly don't watch football outside of United and 30 second player highlights.
 
Rojofiam said:
Yeah, the poster that usually replies to even these emojis and one-liners with a detailed post, just to be hit with another emoji and one-liner to those as well should tone it down.

Maybe I shouldn't bother replying to people who clearly don't watch football outside of United and 30 second player highlights.
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Yes, don't reply. That sounds good.
 
steffyr2 said:
No British players?
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All very young and Kane hasn't won enough to be an all time great.


I rate Palmer very highly and think he has the potential to be a special player. Bellingham will probably have a great career too.
 
Fortitude said:
Do you honestly believe that 1986’s version of Diego Maradona wouldn’t be the best player in the world, transported exactly as is, into this era?
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Kvaratskhelia on cocaine. He would humiliate every single team in the world.
 
JPRouve said:
Kvaratskhelia on cocaine. He would humiliate every single team in the world.
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I mean, anyone who thinks he wouldn’t be dominant now as is, with the only true path to not be being failing drug tests or discipline issues, I feel has not seen enough of the player to have a balanced view.

I’d pay to watch his games and the Benny Hill showreel of teams trying to stop him.
 
Rojofiam said:
All of them are legendary defenders, with great individual and team achievements as well. No doubts about that.

They all played in much weaker eras, though, except for Ramos, and for a while, Puyol. And despite those two having much better trophy cabinets, if you put that aside and just analyze their individual games, van Dijk is better than both.
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You seem to get exasperated when people even suggest that today’s era is not the very best and that skews all your arguments.

The likes of Maldini, Baresi, were playing against Batistuta, Ronaldo, del Piero, Totti, Baggio, Shevchenko, Vieri, Van Basten, Signori, Weah etc… and that was just in the league! Even the middle to smaller teams had greats of the game playing for them.

Modern PL has only a couple that can even dream of being in that bracket. You need to have a more open mind to the fact that other posters won’t feel as you do. Everything modern doesn’t necessarily mean better.

Some of the true greats of the game have better CVs in one year than Virgil has his entire career.
 
Dannn411 said:
Neuer, Rodri, Modric, Kroos, Kante, Carvajal, Messi, Ronaldo, Muller, Mbappe, Haaland, KDB, Salah, Walker
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No. Just no.

Also Van Dijk is a bizarre shout (not directed at you).
 
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Rojofiam said:
I think they should be, yes. Not their fault that they played 40+ years ago, but they've had their fair share of glory and admiration back then, anyways. No point in putting them into GOAT debates 40-60 years later. There would have to be something deeply wrong with the sport if they were in these discussions on merit. You can't compare eras, but modern day is undeniably light years ahead of the 1980s for example.
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This got to be one of the most uneducated takes I've ever read on this forum.

If you think that these two, as well as many other greats from the previous eras wouldn't adapt and tear it up today, you have absolutely no idea how football works.
 
Fortitude said:
Do you honestly believe that 1986’s version of Diego Maradona wouldn’t be the best player in the world, transported exactly as is, into this era?
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He already was on coke for two years and not exactly very disciplined when it came to fitness.

Not saying he wouldn't score for fun and make players like Van Dijk, Kroos, S. Ramos, Rodri, or Kanté look like proper mugs, but exactly as he was in 1986, he wouldn't last a full modern game.

Fully fit and free from his addictions would be a completely different story tough.
 
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That_Bloke said:
He already was on coke for two years and not exactly very disciplined when it came to fitness.

Not saying he wouldn't score for fun and make players like Van Dijk, Kroos, S. Ramos, Rodri, or Kanté look like proper mugs, but exactly as he was in 1986, he wouldn't last a full modern game.

Fully fit and free from his addictions would be a completely different story tough.
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I don't think Maradona taking coke would have necessarily hindered him, it's down as a banned substance for performance enhancing drugs I believe. The way he played too and his personality, would have probably given him that other edge. What I always found interesting though about people calling Maradona the greatest is that he's a proven drug cheat and in other sports people are treated like a pariah but doesn't seem to have stuck with Maradona 'he's just a character'. I have a hard time calling a drugs cheat the greatest.
 
I knew there'd be a Van Dijk debate in this thread as soon as it appeared.

He's an all time great in the same way women's hockey 4th/5th placed play off is one of the all time great Olympic events. In that it's probably better than most other hockey games taking place at the same time, but also utterly irrelevant in the context of greatness.
 
Loads

Manuel Neuer
Ramos
Messi
Ronaldo
Suarez
Busquets
Mainoo

Those are some of the obvious ones. Players like Rodri maybe need to do a little more but I assume they will.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
I don't think Maradona taking coke would have necessarily hindered him, it's down as a banned substance for performance enhancing drugs I believe. The way he played too and his personality, would have probably given him that other edge. What I always found interesting though about people calling Maradona the greatest is that he's a proven drug cheat and in other sports people are treated like a pariah but doesn't seem to have stuck with Maradona 'he's just a character'. I have a hard time calling a drugs cheat the greatest.
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It absolutely did.

A cocaine rush lasts for about 15 to 30 minutes and is immediately followed by a crash down that negates any "positive" effect induced by the drug in the first place. Aside from the lightning fast addiction, the long-term side-effects include high blood pressure and heart problems, amongst other nice things like paranoia, memory, motor skills and decision-making problems. Most of those started to show way before he hung up his boots. Cocaine is one of the worst possible drugs an athlete, especially a footballer, would take to enhance their performances.

Maradona began to take cocaine in his Barcelona days (82-84) to overcome the immense stress and anxiety due to his meteoritic rise to fame and the sky high expectations that came with it, in a quite unfriendly environment, as well as home sickness. It also didn't help that he was quite the party goer and very keen on the night-life.

It got much worse when he was at Napoli and the Camorra ensured that he never ran out of supply. He was partying hard about half of the week, every week, and that also included alcohol and hookers. There is no way he would've lasted an entire game in this day and age, and he would've had an even shorter career than in the 80's if he was allowed that kind of lifestyle. However I also believe that he would've been tightlier supervised and benefited from a much better support today, including a psychological one, as well as a healthier diet.

The drugs Maradona took never enhanced his performances, not that he ever needed them on the pitch. They hampered him, massively shortened his career and ultimately, his life. That's why "drug cheat" doesn't apply, despite him being indeed a cocaine addict. He never was a Ben Johnson or a Lance Armstrong.

Here's an excellent documentary about him and his life during his troubled career:

 
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That_Bloke said:
He already was on coke for two years and not exactly very disciplined when it came to fitness.

Not saying he wouldn't score for fun and make players like Van Dijk, Kroos, S. Ramos, Rodri, or Kanté look like proper mugs, but exactly as he was in 1986, he wouldn't last a full modern game.

Fully fit and free from his addictions would be a completely different story tough.
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I think the problem when talking about Maradona is that people do not or cannot comprehend how much better he is/was than 99.9% of footballers. A legitimate definition of greatest of all time with only two others to meet him as peers. At his peak, no less, where he could perform as he did for club and country whilst leading a wild lifestyle.

He has the perfect build, strength, balance, speed, acceleration and technique to negate supposed advancements in the game with the added bonus of not having his legs hacked off in every game - whichever dribbler or passer you see tearing it up in the modern game, you can place a magnitude of order more on Diego, and this is the gulf I think people find incomprehensible. Some say they cannot process anyone being better than the Messi they’ve seen, and that’s the incredulity Maradona is met with. Many here cannot process his ability and how far off the charts it is.

Even active elite passers and dribblers destroy morale and desire to even approach them inside 30 minutes ‘earning the right to play’ the same process happens with Maradona within 10 of pure embarrassment and humiliation.

The authorities could take him down; the modern game, or its exponents, wouldn’t. Neither human physiology nor kinesiology has - or can - move on enough to reduce Maradona on a pitch in any shape or form. On top, he is the very definition of the ’game breaker’ Pep refers to whom you can only hope has an off day because tactics are a redundancy against. The ways to stop him come from the players who he is up against, so unless you can dredge up Matthaus’, Davids’ (other absolute freaks of ability, kinesiology and intelligence) and the like, it will be an exercise in futility. A very entertaining one I’d pay a small fortune to watch.
 
That_Bloke said:
It absolutely did.

A cocaine rush lasts for about 15 to 30 minutes and is immediately followed by a crash down that negates any "positive" effect induced by the drug in the first place. Aside from the lightning fast addiction, the long-term side-effects include high blood pressure and heart problems, amongst other nice things like paranoia, memory, motor skills and decision-making problems. Most of those started to show way before he hung up his boots. Cocaine is one of the worst possible drugs an athlete, especially a footballer, would take to enhance their performances.

Maradona began to take cocaine in his Barcelona days (82-84) to overcome the immense stress and anxiety due to his meteoritic rise to fame and the sky high expectations that came with it, in a quite unfriendly environment, as well as home sickness. It also didn't help that he was quite the party goer and very keen on the night-life.

It got much worse when he was at Napoli and the Camorra ensured that he never ran out of supply. He was partying hard about half of the week, every week, and that also included alcohol and hookers. There is no way he would've lasted an entire game in this day and age, and he would've had an even shorter career than in the 80's if he was allowed that kind of lifestyle. However I also believe that he would've been tightlier supervised and benefited from a much better support today, including a psychological one, as well as a healthier diet.

The drugs Maradona took never enhanced his performances, not that he ever needed them on the pitch. They hampered him, massively shortened his career and ultimately, his life. That's why "drug cheat" doesn't apply, despite him being indeed a cocaine addict. He never was a Ben Johnson or a Lance Armstrong.

Here's an excellent documentary about him and his life during his troubled career:

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Maradona took Nandrolone in 1994 and was thrown out of the World Cup. That’s what I mean by drug cheat.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Maradona took Nandrolone in 1994 and was thrown out of the World Cup. That’s what I mean by drug cheat.
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It was a washed out Maradona, with a professional career already on a terminal decline, who was tested postive to Ephedrine during the WC 1994. Even then, talent wise he still was in a league of his own. I vividly remember his last games against Greece and Nigeria. I hated the way he calmed down his team before assisting the winning goal on a free kick against the latter which royally pissed me off as a supporter of the best Nigerian team to this date and loved the beautiful goal he scored against Greece after a wonderful collective movement. The Mbappés and Haalands can get fecked.

Back to topic, Ephedrine is effective in raising adrenaline levels, but more importantly shedding weight, something he struggled with due to his unhealthy lifestyle and crucial for a top athlete slapped by at 15 months ban for cocaine usage and forbidden to compete.

To the contrary to the popular belief, the 94' WC isn't in any way reflective of Maradona's career or relevant to the "drug cheat" ephitet commonly thrown at him.
 
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Outside of who is mentioned, Thiago Silva is a strong candidate.
 
That_Bloke said:
It was a washed out Maradona, with a professional career already on a terminal decline, who was tested postive to Ephedrine during the WC 1994. Even then, talent wise he still was in a league of his own. I vividly remember his last games against Greece and Nigeria. I hated the way he calmed down his team before assisting the winning goal on a free kick against the latter which royally pissed me off as a supporter of the best Nigerian team to this date and loved the beautiful goal he scored against Greece after a wonderful collective movement. The Mbappés and Haalands can get fecked.

Back to topic, Ephedrine is effective in raising adrenaline levels, but more importantly shedding weight, something he struggled with due to his unhealthy lifestyle and crucial for a top athlete slapped by at 15 months ban for cocaine usage and forbidden to compete.

To the contrary to the popular belief, the 94' WC isn't in any way reflective of Maradona's career or relevant to the "drug cheat" ephitet commonly thrown at him.
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It's entirely relevant to being a drugs cheat though, he used performance-enhancing drugs at the biggest competition in the world to cheat and gain an advantage on his opponents. He was younger than Messi was at the 2022 World Cup, imagine Messi was thrown out of the tournament for failing a drugs test.
 
Fortitude said:
Messi, C.Ronaldo, Modric and Kroos are givens.

Kroos is already retired, so he doesn't count anyway, but these players denote the kind of standard being talked about.

Casemiro should be added, but I'm sure some believe he's tarnishing his own legacy at the moment, or won't be able to separate what he's done from what he's currently doing... ?

Curious to know who you believe to be the players outside of this bunch best fitting of the title. Who have you got as sure things in their position?
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De Bruyne, Rodri, Allisson, Courtois, Neymar, Iniesta, Suarez, Lewandowski, Busquets, Neuer

Probably the clearest ones to add as obvious "All time greats". Ramos is supremely decorated but I feel like he's a level below those mentioned in that I'm not sure he was ever the no brainer best defender in the world for a period of time. Mbappe most likely will end up there too if he has a similar career at Madrid like he did for PSG. People love to shit on him but he's still brutally effective.
 
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