Academy players on international duty

Interesting potential consequences for James Scanlon as Gibraltar's head coach stepped down just 4 weeks ahead of their next internationals.
 
top1whoisman said:
Goalkeeper Darlington Osuchukwu has been called up to the England U16s squad.
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He's there with the squad but didn't play in any of their 3 matches, which is weird as England usually rotate so each keeper gets a game. Maybe picked up an injury?
 
Scanlon called up to a youthful Gibraltar squad by interim boss Scott Wiseman.
 
Samuel Lusale has been called up to Slovakia's U19s for their European qualifiers against Poland, Georgia & Montenegro. Promotion for him as he's now playing up a year group.
 
Final Gibraltar squad for next week:

Goalkeepers
Bradley Banda (St Joseph's, Gibraltar D1)
Jaylan Hankins (Europa FC on loan from Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Christian López (FCB Magpies, Gibraltar D1)

Defenders
Jack Sergeant (Cringila Lions, Australia D5)
Louie Annesley (Braintree Town, England D5)
Bernardo Lopes (Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Tayler Carrington (Vázquez Cultural Juvenil, Spain YD1)
Kai Mauro (Cádiz C/Juvenil, Spain D6/YD1)
Paddy McClafferty (Blyth Spartans, England D7)

Midfielders
Liam Walker (St Joseph's, Gibraltar D1)
Ethan Britto (Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Kian Ronan (King's Lynn Town, England D6)
Graeme Torrilla (Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Julian Valarino (Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Nicholas Pozo (Europa FC on loan from Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
James Scanlon (Manchester United Academy, England YD1)
Niels Hartman (Vermont Catamounts, United States NCAA D1)
Dan Bent (Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Kye Livingstone (Lions Gibraltar, Gibraltar D1)

Forwards
Tjay De Barr (Lincoln Red Imps, Gibraltar D1)
Ayoub El Hmidi (USM d'Oujda, Morocco D2)
Liam Jessop (Worksop Town on loan from Chesterfield, D7/D4)
Carlos Richards (Dorking Wanderers B, D6/D10)
 
Moorhouse with a first Ireland U21 call-up

Biancheri with Wales U19s
 
top1whoisman said:
Amass and Jack Fletcher named in the England U18s squad.
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top1whoisman said:
Fletcher, Armer and Overy all start against Sweden U19s.
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Woah. Didn’t know they play for different national teams. Surely a world first for the same club to have two sets of twins on their books who all played on different national teams to their siblings?!?
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
Woah. Didn’t know they play for different national teams. Surely a world first for the same club to have two sets of twins on their books who all played on different national teams to their siblings?!?
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Are you referring to the Keane twins?
With them it's even more amazing, as both switched national teams. Michael started as an Ireland youth and ended up as an English player and Will the exact opposite.
It's so sad how injuries destroyed Will's career
 
James Scanlon was a special guest of the Gibraltar branch of the Man Utd Supporters Club this week while taking a break from training on the Rock, and donated the shirt he scores his first international goal in. Could be worth a tidy amount in a few years.
 
top1whoisman said:
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Is that because he's still recovering from his injury absence?

I'd like to think, otherwise, a 21 year old senior first team squad member with us would be starting for England U20's. I'd actually have expected him to be in amongst the midfielders in with the U21 squad rather than still with the U20's.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Is that because he's still recovering from his injury absence?

I'd like to think, otherwise, a 21 year old senior first team squad member with us would be starting for England U20's. I'd actually have expected him to be in amongst the midfielders in with the U21 squad rather than still with the U20's.
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Always rotation in the non-competitive matches. He will start against Switzerland in their next game.

Also it was a blessing in disguise he didn't start this game, as it should've been called off for how bad the pitch was.
 
Gungerz said:
Always rotation in the non-competitive matches. He will start against Switzerland in their next game.

Also it was a blessing in disguise he didn't start this game, as it should've been called off for how bad the pitch was.
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Thanks, that's good to hear. Especially about the fact that he didn't play too long on what sounds a very poor pitch.
 
Can someone explain the relative paucity of international call ups for our academy players despite the Under-18s being so good for the past couple of years.

Are we doing well just because we have a deep squad of decent players without many superior talents?
 
SubutaiScipio said:
Can someone explain the relative paucity of international call ups for our academy players despite the Under-18s being so good for the past couple of years.

Are we doing well just because we have a deep squad of decent players without many superior talents?
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I count 21 players who have played for our u18s this season having international caps. That’s the majority of the squad.
 
Scanlon starts for Gibraltar against Montenegro. Very young starting XI with two new debutants and 24 year old CB Annesley taking the armband.
 
Gotta say Scanlon has had a decent start today, being knocked about a bit but when he gets time on the ball he causes the Montenegro defenders problems. Hope the United coaches are watching to monitor how ready he is for senior club football.
 
limerickcitykid said:
I count 21 players who have played for our u18s this season having international caps. That’s the majority of the squad.
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I was talking more about our English players. I often see call up lists and some of our highly rated players are not included. Many of them get call ups here and there but do not seem to be regulars.

For example, Kamason has not had an England call-up in years despite his reputation and what looks to be very good performances.
I don't think Thwaites has ever had any England call-up.
Kukonki that seemed so close to making an appearance for the United senior team also has barely had England call-ups (I believe his first ever call up was last month).
Fitzgerald has stopped getting call-ups.
Reeece Munro has no England call-ups
Even Ibragimov has very few call-ups.

Jack Fletcher, Harry Amass and Bendito Mantato are the only ones that seem to get regular call-ups.

England Under-17s played on Saturday 22nd and there was no United player involved or on the bench.
England Under-18s played on Saturday 22nd and 2 United players came on as substitutes.
England Under-19s played on Saturday 22nd and there was no United player involved or on the bench.
England Under-20s played and there was 1 United used sub and 1 United unused sub.
England Under-21s played and there was no United player involved or on the bench.

That is a grand total of 3 sub appearances and 1 unused sub out of 5 age-grade matches for the England set up. There is a disconnect somewhere.
 
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SubutaiScipio said:
I was talking more about our English players. I often see call up lists and some of our highly rated players are not included. Many of them get call ups here and there but do not seem to be regulars.

For example, Kamason has not had an England call-up in years despite his reputation and what looks to be very good performances.
I don't think Thwaites has ever had any England call-up.
Kukonki that seemed so close to making an appearance for the United senior team also has barely had England call-ups (I believe his first ever call up was last month).
Fitzgerald has stopped getting call-ups.
Reeece Munro has no England call-ups
Even Ibragimov has very few call-ups.

Jack Fletcher, Harry Amass and Bendito Mantato are the only ones that seem to get regular call-ups.

England Under-17s played on Saturday 22nd and there was no United player involved or on the bench.
England Under-18s played on Saturday 22nd and 2 United players came on as substitutes.
England Under-19s played on Saturday 22nd and there was no United player involved or on the bench.
England Under-20s played and there was 1 United used sub and 1 United unused sub.
England Under-21s played and there was no United player involved or on the bench.

That is a grand total of 3 sub appearances and 1 unused sub out of 5 age-grade matches for the England set up. There is a disconnect somewhere.
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Why only English players when half the academy plays for other nations? Seems such an arbitrary line to just dismiss the achievements of 10+ players. We also had 3 players starting above their age group for Scotland u19s this week.

Amir Ibragimov by all means isn’t even a UK citizen so he can’t be called up.

Jayce Fitzgerald has been consistently injured for over a year. He was in the England u17s right before he got injured. You can’t get called up when you’re injured. Same for Lacey.

Kukonki simply isn’t that good and yet still has England call ups. He’s not a guaranteed starter for our u18s.

Kamason has only built a reputation in the last few months and that is at u18s level. His England competition is Josh Acheampomg who is playing for Chelsea’s first team.

Players born in December historically get less youth caps, same goes for all clubs. U18s performance simply isn’t getting you into England u19s when half the squad has played senior football. England is also probably the strongest country in the world at youth level.

Same goes for Thwaites, he’s not even fully broke through in our u18s yet. He’s December born and competing with our Jack Fletcher who is older and better. Again many players in that squad are already playing senior football and there isn’t a single December born player in it.

Ethan Wheatley is an England regular as well and literally scored this week for the u19s so convenient to leave him out as well.

21 out of about 30 of our u18s are internationally capped. There is no paucity of international call ups.
 
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SubutaiScipio said:
I was talking more about our English players. I often see call up lists and some of our highly rated players are not included. Many of them get call ups here and there but do not seem to be regulars.

For example, Kamason has not had an England call-up in years despite his reputation and what looks to be very good performances.
I don't think Thwaites has ever had any England call-up.
Kukonki that seemed so close to making an appearance for the United senior team also has barely had England call-ups (I believe his first ever call up was last month).
Fitzgerald has stopped getting call-ups.
Reeece Munro has no England call-ups
Even Ibragimov has very few call-ups.

Jack Fletcher, Harry Amass and Bendito Mantato are the only ones that seem to get regular call-ups.

England Under-17s played on Saturday 22nd and there was no United player involved or on the bench.
England Under-18s played on Saturday 22nd and 2 United players came on as substitutes.
England Under-19s played on Saturday 22nd and there was no United player involved or on the bench.
England Under-20s played and there was 1 United used sub and 1 United unused sub.
England Under-21s played and there was no United player involved or on the bench.

That is a grand total of 3 sub appearances and 1 unused sub out of 5 age-grade matches for the England set up. There is a disconnect somewhere.
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Absolutely superb post.

@limerickcitykid - in fairness, the original post was clarified to reference English players. Your points are valid, but the poster has every right to question the lack of United representation in the England set-up.
 
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limerickcitykid said:
Why only English players when half the academy plays for other nations? Seems such an arbitrary line to just dismiss the achievements of 10+ players. We also had 3 players starting above their age group for Scotland u19s this week.

Amir Ibragimov by all means isn’t even a UK citizen so he can’t be called up.

Jayce Fitzgerald has been consistently injured for over a year. He was in the England u17s right before he got injured. You can’t get called up when you’re injured. Same for Lacey.

Kukonki simply isn’t that good and yet still has England call ups. He’s not a guaranteed starter for our u18s.

Kamason has only built a reputation in the last few months and that is at u18s level. His England competition is Josh Acheampomg who is playing for Chelsea’s first team.

Players born in December historically get less youth caps, same goes for all clubs. U18s performance simply isn’t getting you into England u19s when half the squad has played senior football. England is also probably the strongest country in the world at youth level.

Same goes for Thwaites, he’s not even fully broke through in our u18s yet. He’s December born and competing with our Jack Fletcher who is older and better. Again many players in that squad are already playing senior football and there isn’t a single December born player in it.

Ethan Wheatley is an England regular as well and literally scored this week for the u19s so convenient to leave him out as well.

21 out of about 30 of our u18s are internationally capped. There is no paucity of international call ups.
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1) The club is an English club and i was taking a look at our homegrown and local products. It is not an arbitrary line. An arbitrary line would be looking at our Ukranian or brown-eyed academy products. Also, i was not dismissing the achievements of anybody but taking a specific look at a specific section of our academy products and asking a question to the general house. It would be appreciated if you could just address the question and explain the reason behind my observation, rather than trying to read an ulterior motive into what was an innocent question.

2) Ibragimov has gotten caps already for England so you are wrong in saying he can't get caps because he is not a UK citizen. The only thing is that he has gotten only a few caps.

3) I never mentioned Lacey. Fitzgerald has played about 30 games for us since his last England appearance. You are probably right however that his injuries were a major factor in him falling out of favor

4) Your Kukonki statement seems to be in agreement with my overarching idea i.e a disconnect between individual ability of the players and the overall quality of the squad.

5) Acheampong is not the only RB that gets called up. I do agree that December-born players are at a disadvantage (did not stop Dowman from at one time playing 2 years above his age group though) however i would have expected a few more call ups for Kamason.

6) You make a good point about Thwaites but the Dowman (and before him Nwaneri) examples show that the month of the year on is born does not matter for exceptional talents, which is in keeping with my theory.

7) I missed Wheatley's game. I forgot that they played earlier in the weak. I only looked at the squad lists of the most recent games of each age group. I see you found a way to drop something snide there as well.

Finley McAllister no longer gets call ups. He was born in July. Elyh Harrison is so well regarded here and he has only a handful of call ups. Many times i have seen his age group playing and he either is not in the squad or is on the bench. He was born in February.

My theory is that we have a deep squad of good players but not many exceptional players. Most of the other clubs seem to have inferior squads overall but do have the occasional superior talent to what we have got. I wanted people who know more about the academy and youth setup in England to add context to my observation and either support or disprove my theory. That is all.

P.S I am a huge follower/supporter of the academy and i don't miss any televised academy game. This is not a witch hunt but a quest for knowledge. Thanks.
 
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Demon Barber said:
Absolutely superb post.

@limerickcitykid - in fairness, the original post was clarified to reference English players. Your points are valid, but the poster has every right to question the lack of United representation in the England set-up.
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Thanks for this.
I have been following the academy for several years and i understood this lack of representation when our academy was poor but in the past 2-3 years that we have started doing well it does not seem to have changed by much.

Whenever the national squad lists are released i look for United names but find myself scrolling through City, Spurs, Crystal Palace, Chelsea names.
 
Herculean said:
Forgive my ignorance, but the English have a U16, U17, U18, U19 and U20 team? @top1whoisman
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All countries do. The U17s, U19s and U21s compete for the Euros and the U18s and U20s for the World Cup. U16s play friendlies, it’s more about young players starting the national team journey. There’s even U15s camps actually.
 
SubutaiScipio said:
1) The club is an English club and i was taking a look at our homegrown and local products. It is not an arbitrary line. An arbitrary line would be looking at our Ukranian or brown-eyed academy products. Also, i was not dismissing the achievements of anybody but taking a specific look at a specific section of our academy products and asking a question to the general house. It would be appreciated if you could just address the question and explain the reason behind my observation, rather than trying to read an ulterior motive into what was an innocent question.

2) Ibragimov has gotten caps already for England so you are wrong in saying he can't get caps because he is not a UK citizen. The only thing is that he has gotten only a few caps.

3) I never mentioned Lacey. Fitzgerald has played about 30 games for us since his last England appearance. You are probably right however that his injuries were a major factor in him falling out of favor

4) Your Kukonki statement seems to be in agreement with my overarching idea i.e a disconnect between individual ability of the players and the overall quality of the squad.

5) Acheampong is not the only RB that gets called up. I do agree that December-born players are at a disadvantage (did not stop Dowman from at one time playing 2 years above his age group though) however i would have expected a few more call ups for Kamason.

6) You make a good point about Thwaites but the Dowman (and before him Nwaneri) examples show that the month of the year on is born does not matter for exceptional talents, which is in keeping with my theory.

7) I missed Wheatley's game. I forgot that they played earlier in the weak. I only looked at the squad lists of the most recent games of each age group. I see you found a way to drop something snide there as well.

Finley McAllister no longer gets call ups. He was born in July. Elyh Harrison is so well regarded here and he has only a handful of call ups. Many times i have seen his age group playing and he either is not in the squad or is on the bench. He was born in February.

My theory is that we have a deep squad of good players but not many exceptional players. Most of the other clubs seem to have inferior squads overall but do have the occasional superior talent to what we have got. I wanted people who know more about the academy and youth setup in England to add context to my observation and either support or disprove my theory. That is all.

P.S I am a huge follower/supporter of the academy and i don't miss any televised academy game. This is not a witch hunt but a quest for knowledge. Thanks.
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Ibragimov got call-ups in the earlier age groups (U15s, couple of U16s) because the rule was more relaxed on those age groups. He couldn't even go for some of overseas tournaments that we participated in due to his visa problem, how can we expect him to go to overseas tournaments with England?

Fitzgerald got niggling injuries here and there and sorta getting down of the pecking order since Amorim took over (was on first team bench under RVN and playing some U21s games) so understandable that he got dropped from England pecking order since it's so competitive in those age group. England has the likes of Chris Rigg, Josh King,... in midfield for this age group who's all playing senior football and obviously our own Jack Fletcher as @limerickcitykid mentioned.

Kamason got called up a few times in the earlier age groups (U15s, U16s). He's kinda just a victim of being late-born and also not our first-choice yet at U21s level, which is entirely not his fault as we still have Ogunneye - who actually did get called up a few times by England in the earlier age group as well in the same age group as Kamason, plus Overy's injury and FA Youth Cup's campaign preparation means it's actually make the most sense to play Kamason at U18s level with some occasional U21s game times.

Finley didn't do well for the U21s and didn't even start when everyone is fit until recently. Harrison is kinda on a limbo at the moment with our GKs situation so it's not a surprise that he was dropped on the last England squad since he hardly played at any level but warming our first team bench. He will come back next season once he gets a higher up loan or make a surprise breakthrough with us, not a big deal.

Exceptional talents don't grow on trees, regardless of the club. That hardly has anything to do with the number of England calls-up, since we are talking about quantity here.

Rashford also only got a few call-ups at U15s/U16s level by England and was totally ignored before his senior breakthrough, so England call-up is hardly an evaluation of talent on the grand scheme of thing. In my opinion it has more to do with where the player is in the football pyramid in regarding with their international age group peers - Rashford goes straight to U18s to our first team playing a grand total of 1 U21s appearance. The higher you play above your age group, the likelier you get called up. Also there's a certain bias towards Chelsea and Man City - which is explainable and excusable given their dominance in youth football in the last 10 years, and their consistency in producing good quantity of at least decent quality footballers (PL level etc) during that period.
 
CasaStreets said:
First, putting aside what I think of Mainoo as a player and his long term prospects for us...

We need to free up PSR dollars. The best strategy for that is to offload high-value, low-cost players, which naturally lends itself to selling high-value academy products. We don't have many who fit the bill. We are in an awful situation and tough decisions that people will dislike must be made. It sucks, but we can't get away from this.

Second, while it's obviously too early in his career to say for certain, my gut is that Mainoo won't make it as a starter at the top end of the PL. His game just isn't physical enough and he really isn't mobile enough in a league that's increasingly stacked with athletes. If he was a truly world class technical talent, it could compensate for his weaknesses, but I don't think he's demonstrated that he will reach that level. Also, he's English, so he'll trade at a premium to other PL clubs, who of course have the largest transfer budgets and may be inclined to offer the highest transfer fee.
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SubutaiScipio said:
1) The club is an English club and i was taking a look at our homegrown and local products. It is not an arbitrary line. An arbitrary line would be looking at our Ukranian or brown-eyed academy products. Also, i was not dismissing the achievements of anybody but taking a specific look at a specific section of our academy products and asking a question to the general house. It would be appreciated if you could just address the question and explain the reason behind my observation, rather than trying to read an ulterior motive into what was an innocent question.

2) Ibragimov has gotten caps already for England so you are wrong in saying he can't get caps because he is not a UK citizen. The only thing is that he has gotten only a few caps.

3) I never mentioned Lacey. Fitzgerald has played about 30 games for us since his last England appearance. You are probably right however that his injuries were a major factor in him falling out of favor

4) Your Kukonki statement seems to be in agreement with my overarching idea i.e a disconnect between individual ability of the players and the overall quality of the squad.

5) Acheampong is not the only RB that gets called up. I do agree that December-born players are at a disadvantage (did not stop Dowman from at one time playing 2 years above his age group though) however i would have expected a few more call ups for Kamason.

6) You make a good point about Thwaites but the Dowman (and before him Nwaneri) examples show that the month of the year on is born does not matter for exceptional talents, which is in keeping with my theory.

7) I missed Wheatley's game. I forgot that they played earlier in the weak. I only looked at the squad lists of the most recent games of each age group. I see you found a way to drop something snide there as well.

Finley McAllister no longer gets call ups. He was born in July. Elyh Harrison is so well regarded here and he has only a handful of call ups. Many times i have seen his age group playing and he either is not in the squad or is on the bench. He was born in February.

My theory is that we have a deep squad of good players but not many exceptional players. Most of the other clubs seem to have inferior squads overall but do have the occasional superior talent to what we have got. I wanted people who know more about the academy and youth setup in England to add context to my observation and either support or disprove my theory. That is all.

P.S I am a huge follower/supporter of the academy and i don't miss any televised academy game. This is not a witch hunt but a quest for knowledge. Thanks.
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I agree with you about Man United in the U18 level has a deep squad with good and quite good players. That's why we dominate and in the top rank.
Coaching staff is also quite competent.

By the way, we don't have many exceptional players. In U18 level, Max Dowman (Arsenal) and Luca williams-barnett (TOT) are two of exceptional talents I can think of.
They're not only superb on technical and vision but also great on physical aspect.

We may have some of very great talents but I can't say for sure any of them are exceptional players.
Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspurs are great with stacking those exceptional players.
 
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