Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.

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cyberman said:
Irwin was fantastic for feck sake. 7 league titles, a few double doubles and a CL title to his name.
Fantastic defensively and going forward, A right footer at left back who could play a cross and be fluid on transitions.
Why do United fans play down everything to do with Utd?
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He was by far the best LB United had during SAF's rule
 
cyberman said:
Irwin was fantastic for feck sake. 7 league titles, a few double doubles and a CL title to his name.
Fantastic defensively and going forward, A right footer at left back who could play a cross and be fluid on transitions.
Why do United fans play down everything to do with Utd?
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Nobody is putting Irwin down he's actually a player I quite like from the early 90s.
 
Adnan said:
Nobody is putting Irwin down he's actually a player I quite like from the early 90s.
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Downplaying his abilities is putting him down.
The man was finishing off moves in the CL semi final v Juventus via hitting the post in 99 and we have fans wondering if he can do it going forward..Irwin dominated that flank when the side got going that night. Irwin was a monster
 
cyberman said:
Downplaying his abilities is putting him down.
The man was finishing off moves in the CL semi final v Juventus via hitting the post in 99 and we have fans wondering if he can do it going forward..Irwin dominated that flank when the side got going that night. Irwin was a monster
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He was hitting the post against Juventus in a UCL semi final proves he was good going forward?

I never said he was bad going forward, he just wasn't as great as some of you think he was IMO.
 
cyberman said:
Irwin was fantastic for feck sake. 7 league titles, a few double doubles and a CL title to his name.
Fantastic defensively and going forward, A right footer at left back who could play a cross and be fluid on transitions.
Why do United fans play down everything to do with Utd?
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Bugs the hell out of me
 
cyberman said:
Irwin was fantastic for feck sake. 7 league titles, a few double doubles and a CL title to his name.
Fantastic defensively and going forward, A right footer at left back who could play a cross and be fluid on transitions.
Why do United fans play down everything to do with Utd?
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This is a Liverpool forum now.
 
devilish said:
Irwin by far
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Personally preferred Evra myself he was just fantastic with his movement and link up play with our attackers.

Irwin wasn't bad going forward, but if you compare him to other top left backs in the same time period he wasn't as good especially in attack. The three of the top off my head would be Lizarazu, Frank de Boer and even Robert Jarni. I'm not even gonna mention the the name of the legendary AC Milan dude..
 
Adnan said:
Personally preferred Evra myself he was just fantastic with his movement and link up play with our attackers.

Irwin wasn't bad going forward, but if you compare him to other top left backs in the same time period he wasn't as good especially in attack. The three of the top off my head would be Lizarazu, Frank de Boer and even Robert Jarni. I'm not even gonna mention the the name of the legendary AC Milan dude..
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Evra had better dribbling and slightly more pace then Irwin did however the Irish was superior in everything else. He was better defensively, his crosses were top notch and he was a better finisher.
 
Adnan said:
Personally preferred Evra myself he was just fantastic with his movement and link up play with our attackers.

Irwin wasn't bad going forward, but if you compare him to other top left backs in the same time period he wasn't as good especially in attack. The three of the top off my head would be Lizarazu, Frank de Boer and even Robert Jarni. I'm not even gonna mention the the name of the legendary AC Milan dude..
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Maldini was to defence what Messi is to attack. He was the peak. But he wasn’t the best attacking fullback around
 
golden_blunder said:
Maldini was to defence what Messi is to attack. He was the peak. But he wasn’t the best attacking fullback around
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I think Maldini's attacking ability is severely underrated in here. Don't forget that he played in a different type of football than the current one. I know it sounds crazy in a world filled with wing backs and ball playing defenders but at that time a defender was rated on whether he knew how to defend. The rest was a bonus. Same thing can be said about Denis Irwin.

Maldini knew how to move forward with the ball probably as well as Evra did. However he was hardwired to evaluate carefully the situation not to leave the team exposed to counter attacks. Below you'll find a video which kind of shows how technically gifted the guy was.

 
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I think we're going off piste hear guys, I thought this about AWB ? If we're discussing his 'style' then yes he is a defender first and foremost, but what's the problem with that, I actually like defenders who defend, I also like midfielders who win the ball, keep it and create chances, I certainly like forwards who score goals, I think Olé is a fairly 'bread and butter' type guy, I think he will build a team that sticks to the basics.
 
devilish said:
Irwin by far
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Not by far - but yeah, Irwin.

Evra had 1-2 games each season where he was really poor, I can't recall one United-game where I felt Irwin didn't control his man. Add to that his wonderful set-pieces, and we have the best back during my time as an United-fan. Neville was great as well, but Irwin was better
 
Kidders said:
I think we're going off piste hear guys, I thought this about AWB ? If we're discussing his 'style' then yes he is a defender first and foremost, but what's the problem with that, I actually like defenders who defend, I also like midfielders who win the ball, keep it and create chances, I certainly like forwards who score goals, I think Olé is a fairly 'bread and butter' type guy, I think he will build a team that sticks to the basics.
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If a basic defender at rb is what we are looking for then why pay 60m for AWB. If anything give axel minutes at rb.
 
Not really seen much of him, but I hope he is better than Luke Shaw. Truth be told, Shaw is a pretty average player and would be upgraded if we had ambition, but that is too much to hope for at this club. So we need to get an above average RB at the least.
 
devilish said:
I think Maldini's attacking ability is severely underrated in here. Don't forget that he played in a different type of football than the current one. I know it sounds crazy in a world filled with wing backs and ball playing defenders but at that time a defender was rated on whether he knew how to defend. The rest was a bonus. Same thing can be said about Denis Irwin.

Maldini knew how to move forward with the ball probably as well as Evra did. However he was hardwired to evaluate carefully the situation not to leave the team exposed to counter attacks. Below you'll find a video which kind of shows how technically gifted the guy was.

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Yeah I’m not knocking him, he was world class for many many years and was the one defender I really coveted.
I made that comment because of this debate about Irwin. Not every fullback has to be Cafu to contribute offensively
 
lysglimt said:
Not by far - but yeah, Irwin.

Evra had 1-2 games each season where he was really poor, I can't recall one United-game where I felt Irwin didn't control his man. Add to that his wonderful set-pieces, and we have the best back during my time as an United-fan. Neville was great as well, but Irwin was better
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I love Evra. He's funny, he was technically gifted and very fast...there's nothing you can ever hate about the man. Whenever I am asked to do SAF's XI I cheat my way in it by moving Irwin as RB and Evra as LB even though the Irish man had barely played as RB for us. That's how I rate Evra. However I do mean the phrase by far. Evra was a bit weak as a defender. Don't take me wrong, he knew how to defend but somehow his awareness was a bit iffy and there were many opportunities were he left Rio and Vidic to handle things that they shouldn't be handle alone. Irwin produced nearly as much as Evra did going forward but in his prime he would never leave defence with its pants down. It was like having a T-800 as RB. He was consistently good game in game out, minute in, minute out, second in second out.

Its a 'shame' that he played alongside a much more charismatic Irish man which ended up stealing most of the limelight. Irwin was WC, an EPL Fullback who was way beyond his time.
 
golden_blunder said:
Yeah I’m not knocking him, he was world class for many many years and was the one defender I really coveted.
I made that comment because of this debate about Irwin. Not every fullback has to be Cafu to contribute offensively
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Call me old fashioned but while I do understand the contribution an attacking right back can make, I als believe that their lack of defensive ability is a weaknesses rather then a strength. Sure the likes of Cafu and Roberto Carlos would probably create more assists then the likes of Irwin and Maldini did. However, having the former around need 2 top quality CBs to constantly covering their arse. Maldini and Irwin didn't need to be nannied by anyone else.

Hence why Id rather see us sign AWB then Meunier. A defender with the right characteristics (pace, stamina, attitude) can be taught to be more effective when going forward (think of Gaz). However someone whose a liability when defending will need to be nannied for the rest of his career. Not to forget that there's nothing sadder then an old attacking fullback who cannot defend. He's basically the epitome of liability.
 
Adnan said:
He was hitting the post against Juventus in a UCL semi final proves he was good going forward?

I never said he was bad going forward, he just wasn't as great as some of you think he was IMO.
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He was very good going forward in the same sense that Beckham was, he didn’t dribble past players that often but he made very intelligent runs and had a great delivery, he was more dangerous goi g forward than Evra ever was IMO
 
devilish said:
Call me old fashioned but while I do understand the contribution an attacking right back can make, I als believe that their lack of defensive ability is a weaknesses rather then a strength. Sure the likes of Cafu and Roberto Carlos would probably create more assists then the likes of Irwin and Maldini did. However, having the former around need 2 top quality CBs to constantly covering their arse. Maldini and Irwin didn't need to be nannied by anyone else.

Hence why Id rather see us sign AWB then Meunier. A defender with the right characteristics (pace, stamina, attitude) can be taught to be more effective when going forward (think of Gaz). However someone whose a liability when defending will need to be nannied for the rest of his career. Not to forget that there's nothing sadder then an old attacking fullback who cannot defend. He's basically the epitome of liability.
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I agree with you. Play fullbacks who can defend first. If they have the right skill set they will be able to contribute in attack but they should be good defenders first. A good defender means that the RW (assuming we ever sign one) can do their thing without having to be concerned with what's going on behind them.
 
AdNani said:
He was very good going forward in the same sense that Beckham was, he didn’t dribble past players that often but he made very intelligent runs and had a great delivery, he was more dangerous goi g forward than Evra ever was IMO
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Evra was a more skilful player in comparison and played at a time when the English League was alot more competive with the emergence of Chelsea.
 
Adnan said:
Evra was a more skilful player in comparison and played at a time when the English League was alot more competive with the emergence of Chelsea.
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Being Skillfull does not always equate to being better though? There’s been a hell of a lot more skillfull players than Becks but 99/100 I’d have him on the right. As good as Evra was he was nowhere near as productive as Irwin going forward
 
AdNani said:
Being Skillfull does not always equate to being better though? There’s been a hell of a lot more skillfull players than Becks but 99/100 I’d have him on the right. As good as Evra was he was nowhere near as productive as Irwin going forward
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Agree but back to AWB
 
God himself has spoken regarding this issue.........

Ferguson managed some of the best players in world football during his time but insists unsung Corkman Irwin would be the first name on his greatest team line-up

https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...st-team-ever-says-alex-ferguson-29711450.html

".......but honestly, I would say Denis Irwin would be the one certainty to get in the team. I called him an eight out of 10.

At Highbury in one game he had a bad pass back in the last minute and (Dennis) Bergkamp came in and scored.


After the game the press said 'you must be disappointed in that pass back.


I said, 'well, one mistake in 10 years isn't bad.' He was an unbelievable player"
 
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Adnan said:
As opposed to the squads Irwin faced, with City with Uwe Rosler. Liverpool with Souness, Spurs with Gary Mabutt and Chelsea with Dennis Wise.
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Arsenal as Champions with Overmars...
 
Cassidy said:
Agree but back to AWB
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I was actually thinking, he’s obviously a RB and being bought as one, but in games where we need to be more defensive, he’d be more than capable of playing on the right of a 3 with Dalot as a wing back, he interesting if it ever happens
 
AdNani said:
Being Skillfull does not always equate to being better though? There’s been a hell of a lot more skillfull players than Becks but 99/100 I’d have him on the right. As good as Evra was he was nowhere near as productive as Irwin going forward
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Evra didn't take freekicks or pens like Irwin so his goal scoring wasn't gonna compare favourably but he was only 11 behind Irwin with 50 fewer appearances. Evra also had 21 assists in comparison to Irwin's 25 in 50 fewer appearances which averages out in favour of Evra. To suggest he was no near as productive to Irwin is quite simply nonsense.
 
Adnan said:
Evra didn't take freekicks or pens like Irwinso his goal scoring wasn't gonna compare favourably but he was only 11 behind Irwin with 50 fewer appearances. Evra also had 21 assists in comparison to Irwin's 25 in 50 fewer appearances which averages out in favour of Evra. To suggest he was no near as productive to Irwin is quite simply nonsense.
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Does taking free kicks and penalties not count as attacking then? Being able to take them was part of Irwins attacking ability.

I didn’t realise it was that close to be fair
 
Adnan said:
As opposed to the squads Irwin faced, with City with Uwe Rosler. Liverpool with Souness, Spurs with Gary Mabutt and Chelsea with Dennis Wise.
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And Inter with Baggio, Djorkaeff, Ronaldo and Zamorano. Juventus with Zidane, Inzaghi and Davids. Barcelona with Rivaldo and Luis Figo.


Irwin was a quality player and he would have been more than capable in any era.
 
I think he'll be a terrific addition. He's one of those players at a smaller club who looks made for a bigger stage. I think he'll surprise people with his quality on the ball too. Would need to improve his delivery for sure. But the rest of his game is quality. Make it happen Woody.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I think he'll be a terrific addition. He's one of those players at a smaller club who looks made for a bigger stage. I think he'll surprise people with his quality on the ball too. Would need to improve his delivery for sure. But the rest of his game is quality. Make it happen Woody.
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Yeah, this is what I think too. He is ready for the next step and will be very good addition for the first 11.
 
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