Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.

Status
Not open for further replies.
SteveW said:
It's been a while since he was in the Ajax academy. He's not developed. Positional sense and decision making is still miles off the required standard. Not saying he cant get better but it seems unlikely that he will suddenly improve enough to be at the level we need.

I've absolutely no idea about Koulibally. I never saw him play before the last couple of seasons. Is there many examples of players suddenly learning to defend after never being able to do it before?
Click to expand...
TFM's defending one v one is brilliant at fullback. His performance against Leroy Sane was evidence of that. To say he can't defend is a myth when @Rozay has provided ample evidence for his performances in the EPL and for the Dutch NT. But it's no surprise people have given up on him after his short stint at Fulham.

But having said that. I understand where @Rozay is coming from when he compares him to the very defensive AWB. I'd rather sign a more attack minded RB for sure, like a Cancelo or even the unproven 19 year old Max Aaron who are both very good going forward.

Having two defensive fullbacks would be detrimental to our attack imo. If we can't sign a attack minded fullback, then save the money and play the likes of Ethan Laird and TFM.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
One season wonder suggests he's had his best season. What if he has an even better season next year, he would be worth even more?

The good thing about bidding big on a young player like this is we will probably recoup our money anyway regardless of his success. Let's say we pay 50m, he is okay for us but not great, and we decide to get rid in 3 years. With market inflation as it is we could probably get 50m back for him. I think he'll be a great signing though and I happy we are in for him.
Click to expand...

Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Couldn't you make the same argument for any player we are looking at buying? Sancho for example.

Fullbacks are a key position these days, not a position where you could de-prioritise and save the cash, like in the old days
Click to expand...
You get the point about Sancho. It's not about saving cash, but more about the priority.

I think Wan Bissaka would be worth at most 70m in 2-3 years, if he has the same seasons like last one. But Sancho could be worth twice as much if he has another 2 seasons like the last.

Or maybe I'm just expecting a more attacking FB if we spend that kind of money.


AJ10 said:
I don't know whats worse, You calling Wan Bissaka a one season wonder but advocating Sancho or wanting to play Young/Dalot at RB.....again (both can't defend).
Click to expand...

I'm on the camp that attack is the best form of defend.
 
Rozay said:
He likely won’t be. I’m not here saying TFM is the answer at RB, I’m saying that I don’t think Wan-Bissaka is, for the same reasons TFM probably isn’t. I’m therefore also saying that if we are so impressed with Wan-Bissaka’s qualities, we should probably consider saving ourselves £50m and giving Tim a go, as I feel he has a similar level of qualities, if not a similar level of fortunes over the last 12 months. That said, people are terribly fickle, (just look at how our fans spoke about Tim in his thread when he was at Palace and how they speak in this very thread)and 2 or 3 good games in our side and we’d be back saying he’s brilliant again. When talking about a pair of 21 year olds, I think the attributes are more important than talking about form, which by nature will be up and down. In terms of attributes, I think when they are both playing well, they are similar. I don’t think Wan-Bissaka will give us something else that the TFM who played for us first season and at Palace would. I don’t think he has anything else to give. Someone like Max Aaron’s does, for example, as watching him you can tell he has other qualities to his game which we need.

Ultimately, I don’t think either are good enough, but for the very same reasons.
Click to expand...

Ah ok. I thought from your posts that you were bigging up TFM. I dont see the sense in paying 50 mill for AWB either.
 
SteveW said:
It's been a while since he was in the Ajax academy. He's not developed. Positional sense and decision making is still miles off the required standard. Not saying he cant get better but it seems unlikely that he will suddenly improve enough to be at the level we need.

I've absolutely no idea about Koulibally. I never saw him play before the last couple of seasons. Is there many examples of players suddenly learning to defend after never being able to do it before?
Click to expand...
Some people would say Valencia, and Young.
 
Adnan said:
TFM's defending one v one is brilliant at fullback. His performance against Leroy Sane was evidence of that. To say he can't defend is a myth when @Rozay has provided ample evidence for his performances in the EPL and for the Dutch NT. But it's no surprise people have given up on him after his short stint at Fulham.

But having said that. I understand where @Rozay is coming from when he compares him to the very defensive AWB. I'd rather sign a more attack minded RB for sure, like a Cancelo or even the unproven 19 year old Max Aaron who are both very good going forward.

Having two defensive fullbacks would be detrimental to our attack imo. If we can't sign a attack minded fullback, then save the money and play the likes of Ethan Laird and TFM.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think he's a poor defender that doesnt position himself well enough.

Laird is someone I'm very curious about actually. Seems to have all the raw attributes to be a terrific fullback.
 
A proper RB he is , which we have been lacking for years and years. He seems solid defensively so that will sure up our panicy back line. I think if we can get him for 50 then we should go for him for sure.

On a side note, he absolutely destroyed fantasy football last year so that’s gotta count for something :wenger:
 
Adnan said:
TFM's defending one v one is brilliant at fullback. His performance against Leroy Sane was evidence of that. To say he can't defend is a myth when @Rozay has provided ample evidence for his performances in the EPL and for the Dutch NT. But it's no surprise people have given up on him after his short stint at Fulham.

But having said that. I understand where @Rozay is coming from when he compares him to the very defensive AWB. I'd rather sign a more attack minded RB for sure, like a Cancelo or even the unproven 19 year old Max Aaron who are both very good going forward.

Having two defensive fullbacks would be detrimental to our attack imo. If we can't sign a attack minded fullback, then save the money and play the likes of Ethan Laird and TFM.
Click to expand...
There’s a difference.

TFM is good when he can use his pace (people going down the outside running like Sané), but make him use concentration and positioning and he struggles. He isn’t a natural defender and gets caught out.
 
Adam-Utd said:
There’s a difference.

TFM is good when he can use his pace (people going down the outside running like Sané), but make him use concentration and positioning and he struggles. He isn’t a natural defender and gets caught out.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. The difference between them is obvious
 
Adnan said:
TFM's defending one v one is brilliant at fullback. His performance against Leroy Sane was evidence of that. To say he can't defend is a myth when @Rozay has provided ample evidence for his performances in the EPL and for the Dutch NT. But it's no surprise people have given up on him after his short stint at Fulham.

But having said that. I understand where @Rozay is coming from when he compares him to the very defensive AWB. I'd rather sign a more attack minded RB for sure, like a Cancelo or even the unproven 19 year old Max Aaron who are both very good going forward.

Having two defensive fullbacks would be detrimental to our attack imo. If we can't sign a attack minded fullback, then save the money and play the likes of Ethan Laird and TFM.
Click to expand...

AWB is actually good going forward he just lacks the final ball. He is able to drive at the opposition FB and also his link up is decent too. He would vastly improve the right flank along with a RW whilst also making us solid on that flank from a defensive point of view
 
Adam-Utd said:
There’s a difference.

TFM is good when he can use his pace (people going down the outside running like Sané), but make him use concentration and positioning and he struggles. He isn’t a natural defender and gets caught out.
Click to expand...
He's still 21 and his flaws can still be coached. I'm not saying he's my choice at RB though. But I just hope we steer clear of someone like AWB for the reasons previously mentioned. 20 years ago I might have understood the clamour for his signing, but in this day and age I think it'd be a foolish move for the reported fee.
 
Cassidy said:
AWB is actually good going forward he just lacks the final ball. He is able to drive at the opposition FB and also his link up is decent too. He would vastly improve the right flank along with a RW whilst also making us solid on that flank from a defensive point of view
Click to expand...
I'll be honest i've only seen him play via YouTube. But have read plenty saying he's too defensive. But if we sign him, then I will take solace in your post and hope for the best.
 
Adnan said:
I'll be honest i've only seen him play via YouTube. But have read plenty saying he's too defensive. But if we sign him then I will take solace in your post and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

He makes the same amount of crosses per game as Van Arhnorlt on the other side. He just needs to improve his passing and crossing. He is already pretty good at receiving the ball and he gets up and down the right flank regularly.

Not saying he is a great attacker but he isn't as defensive as people like to make out.

He is however a brilliant defender
 
People say that he will be coached, but which player has improved in our squad in the past year? We do not have a Pep, Klopp or even LVG. Ole couldn't even coach our strikers ffs. I am not hating, just saying the idea of just coaching someone to be better going forward as a full back is stupid. He is playing under Pellegrini who you could say could have coached him, why would Ole make the difference?
 
He's a good defender, the assists and attacking stats will come in a team that can afford to let their full backs attack.

He's not got a free reign to run the wings at Palace.
 
40m would be a fair price. But in this market....

50m take it or leave it. Move to Meunier for 20m and buy a midfielder for 40m
 
Castia said:
He's a good defender, the assists and attacking stats will come in a team that can afford to let their full backs attack.

He's not got a free reign to run the wings at Palace.
Click to expand...

Like it did for Shaw right who actually happen to be quite a lot better than Wan-Bissaka on the ball again we are targeting a limited footballer and when he won't improve we would lament where we went wrong.
 
Adnan said:
He's still 21 and his flaws can still be coached. I'm not saying he's my choice at RB though. But I just hope we steer clear of someone like AWB for the reasons previously mentioned. 20 years ago I might have understood the clamour for his signing, but in this day and age I think it'd be a foolish move for the reported fee.
Click to expand...
I like him but he’s far too injury prone, he’s looked completely average at both palace and Fulham and we expect him to get a chance with us?. He will be a squad player at best.

While I agree AWB is expensive, the English tax and youth on his side is worth it. People didn’t think walker was worth it either but we’ve seen how much difference it makes.

If we could add de light and AWB this summer we could be looking good next year defensively.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
Looks like we're serious about him, do we think he's ready for the step up?
Click to expand...

Don't think it's really a step up aside the mental pressure, he's been one of the best fullbacks in the league for a team that essentially is battling relegation. He should be able to acclimatise to the new environment and kick on.
 
Cassidy said:
He makes the same amount of crosses per game as Van Arhnorlt on the other side. He just needs to improve his passing and crossing. He is already pretty good at receiving the ball and he gets up and down the right flank regularly.

Not saying he is a great attacker but he isn't as defensive as people like to make out.

He is however a brilliant defender
Click to expand...
So he just needs to improve the basics of football and one of the most important attributes for the fullback. What's the point of signing him then?
 
He doesn’t really seem that arsed about moving to us re his comments about having a 3 year contract. On to the next
 
I see it being a similar situation with Shaw if we get him.... He'll be a good player, but I just think both pack quite a bit from an attacking point of view so theyll never stand out as anything more than decent. I dont think Wan Bissaka can improve enough on the ball and creatively to get to someone like Alexander Arnold's level for example, so in the case of AWB and Shaw being our fullbacks, having creativity and comfortable ball players and quality on the wings is vital, but also all those things at center back and in midfield. A lot of the top teams use their fullbacks as a big part of their attack. Sir Alex did the same for ages. Hopefully he can make the step up if he comes, but my guess is he'll be kind of like Shaw and we'll have strong defensive players in defence, but lack creativity from there.
 
TheHeya said:
He doesn’t really seem that arsed about moving to us re his comments about having a 3 year contract. On to the next
Click to expand...

I doubt we’d submit an official bid if that were the case. If we can agree a fee, he’ll be here.
 
Walker went for 50m when he was an established England International and the best RB in the league. AWB is neither, Palace are having a laugh with their valuation

Would rather have Cancelo unless he's signed with City
 
60 milliom quid for Ashley Young to never play again Is an absolute bargain.

I do want to sign AWB, but I have still far from given up on Dalot who imo shows a lot of promise
 
I haven't seen Palace as much as I should, but if I'm not mistaken they play with wing-backs right?
 
TheHeya said:
He doesn’t really seem that arsed about moving to us re his comments about having a 3 year contract. On to the next
Click to expand...

What? All players say that. He’s hardly going to say he wants to leave because he probably knows Woodward is a buffoon who might mess it up so he’s smart guy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.