Why bump this thread and give us all hope? 
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
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Honestly spoiler that. It's not part of the main series, and I'm sure not everyone has read it.
Edit: Eh, it's sort of part of it, but the details are not.
Edit: Eh, it's sort of part of it, but the details are not.
It's spoilered now.
The details have already changed though.
Killing him in the tourney and then the queen coming to his defence would have been a bigger reason for him to become so close to her. It also doesn't make him out to be so unhinged.
Yeah true it's different. I think we can expect the details to change some more from the book, for sure.
Why bump this thread and give us all hope?
This, you utter bastards.
I think they've done what they have to push the plot on faster. Which is okay to a point I just don't want them to move the story too fast.
I couldn't put the Book info in the TV thread.
Besides we know he will never finish the series. We might get a new Dunc and Egg Novella but nothing more substantial than that.
True, and I should have known better than to have that momentary spark of optimism that he had managed to complete something.
Like it so far a lot. The changes have been minimal (like the ages of characters), and I think that Ser Criston becoming loyal to Alicent was done really well. I also like how many relations between characters that were only hinted in the books (like Criston-Rhaenera and now H. Strong-Rhaenera) seem to be very fleshed out
The only thing I do not like is that they didn’t clarify who are the Hightowers. Those feckers, despite not being a great house (aka sworn directly to the king) are probably stronger than their Lords (Tyrells). At this time, they are third/fourth/fifth strongest House in the Realm (after Targaryans and Velaryons, the order of Hightowers, Tyrells and Lannisters can be either way). Heck, even in GoT they are probably top 3 House in Power (with Lannisters and Tyrells).
The only thing I do not like is that they didn’t clarify who are the Hightowers. Those feckers, despite not being a great house (aka sworn directly to the king) are probably stronger than their Lords (Tyrells). At this time, they are third/fourth/fifth strongest House in the Realm (after Targaryans and Velaryons, the order of Hightowers, Tyrells and Lannisters can be either way). Heck, even in GoT they are probably top 3 House in Power (with Lannisters and Tyrells).
The Tyrells were pretty much irrelevant during this period, as they were former stewards installed by Aegon after he roasted the last King of the Reach. The main great houses both sides courted were Baratheon, Arryn and Stark (Dorne wasnt yet part of 7K).
Love the Starks in this story. Cregan Stark basically waits out the entire fight and lands up at Kings Landing right at the end with a bunch of northmen who are basically prepared to die.... Hardly sees any fighting, wants to do justice on behalf of crimes committed against the king whom he was opposing, ensures the rule of the king he was supporting is secured, gets married and fecks off back to Winterfell.
Don’t forget leaving his Northmen behind to repopulate the South with gigachad Northern blood.
Yeah, that too.
Well, they had 130 years to consolidate their power in by far the most powerful, wealthy and numerous region of the seven kingdoms. The only problem is that Hightowers and Redwynes are so powerful on their own, which makes them vassals only in name. Hightowers in particular are definitely richer than any other house except Lannisters (and Velaryians for a short amount of time), and apparently have 20K soldiers on their own (the entire North or Vale or Riverlands or Stormlands have only 40K). Add to that, they control the Faith and the Maesters, so despite formally being a second-tier House, they are stronger than most great Houses. I would have put them ahead of Houses Stark, Tullys, Arryn, Martell at any time, and above Baratheons any time except during the reign of Robert.
Finally, they seem to do as they want. Did not participate in Aegon's Conquest despite that their liege Lord Gardener summoned them, the entire Reach followed them in the Dance of Dragons, they followed Tyrells in Robert's Rebellion, but mostly didn't in the War of 5 Kings.
I think quite clearly, GRRM is keeping them as an 'ace' to support fAegon which would considerably change the balance of power. He just had run out of Great Houses, so essentially levelled up Hightowers to Lannister/Tyrell level.
The Hightowers aren't the average bannerman. Old Town is the second biggest city in Westeros and the richest city in the continent. It's were the citadel is located, it has its own bank (whose probably the only bank in Westeros), its own city watch and it contained its own chapter of the Warrior's son. Its lands are so huge that these bannermen have bannermen of their own. During Aegon II, House Hightower could raise an army which was bigger then 9k army.
a- The Stormlands in its entirety can raise around double that army.
b- Not all Hightower bannermen fought for the greens.
Given time, the total support of its bannermen and the mercenaries they can bring to the table thanks to their deep pockets then they can probably raise an army as big as the Stormlands and the North.
In GOT the Hightowers had taken a step backwards because Lord Leyton Hightower is a bit cuckoo. However when they decided to give refuge to Alekyne Florent no one dared asking him back to answer to his crime let alone going against House Hightower. That's how insanely strong these people are.
Keeping them for Winds of Winter?
I’m not sure what this wall of text is meant for, I didn’t question the power of House Hightower, mainly pointing out the relative irrelevance of House Tyrell at that point in time in the great game. Remember, the main controversy surrounding Aegon 2 succession was Rhaenyra being sworn fealty to by all the lords of Westeros in 105 AC, so with Dorne and the Iron Islands not being participants, the main focus were on getting as many great houses on side as possible, as they by proxy bring with them their bannermen/vassals (ofc, you always get the Freys, Boltons etc), hence the focus on the 3 houses with bloodline running back thousands of year (in the case of the Baratheon, on the female side). The Tyrells, with their shaky legitimacy, didnt factor into this conflict, even more so with the Hightower already being representative of the Reach’s interest.
got my hopes up..
Okay for the second time. Ser Criston Cole legally killed the Knight of Kisses in a tourney and was still going to be punished. It took the Queen's intervention making him her sworn shield(basically giving him a royal pardon) to save him.
There's no precedent for a KG to be dismissed for violence anywhere in Westerosi history. Any punishment would have been a mere slap on the wrist.
You know the entire history of the King's Guard? You are telling me they can kill lords even wardens of the Seven kingdoms with impunity? I don't think you have got the proof to back that up. Jaime Lannister ran after attacking Ned because he knew he was dead if he didn't.
Find me an instance where a KG was punished for non-treasonous violence. As far as I am aware it's never happened. Killing the secret gay lover of the intended king consort doesn't qualify as treason since the royal family isn't involved.
There's a zero percent chance Jaime would have been executed given the extent to which the Lannisters had influence over the crown. It's also entirely different to kill the (likely second at least) son of a minor house than it is to attack the king's best friend, lord of a great house, and recent hand of the king. These aren't comparable situations at all.
He expected to die for shagging a woman. Not thought that it might but was bound to happen.
There are multiple instances of Kingsguards being gelded and sent to the Wall and/or killed for breaking their vow of chastity. Lucamore Strong, for instance. There are not examples of Kingsguards being executed or exiled for non-treasonous violence.
There was no chance there would have been any repercussions for Jamie. At best Ned may have convinced Robert to exile him to the Wall but realistically Bobby would have told Ned to suck it up and make friends.
Jamie left because he was summoned by Tywin, not because he was in fear of a reprisal.
There are huge degrees of separation to Cole beating essentially a nobody to death (in the show) when it was quite clear Corlys was quite clearly not arsed his son's secret gay lover had been brutally murdered. In the books there's even less chance of anything happening because he killed him in a melee.
In the book he killed him in a tournament and the king was angered by his actions and was going to punish him. For Killing a noble in a Tourney match. The queen made him her sworn sword which stopped the king from acting.
This would be massively more serious if the member of the King's Guard actually murdered somebody at the prewedding feast.
He was left bedridden. It wasn't just a lovers tiff.
What's that got to do with anything?
Jamie attacked Ned and his men because he knew there was no reprisal. Robert was in debt with his father and married to his twin sister. There's no way he would have been sentenced to death and any other punishment, like being sent to Wall wouldn't have happened.
But now we're talking about hypotheticals in a fictional world, which is where I check out.
There would have been no precedent for him to either A) remove him from the KG since that had never happened until Joffrey Baratheon or B) have him executed. His punishment was more likely to have been scrubbing out the bogs in the White Sword Tower.
Here's a corroborating source so you don't just have to take my word for it:
https://www.theringer.com/house-of-...3364042/house-of-the-dragon-episode-5-mailbag
That's from Zach Kram, who works as a fact checker and ASOIAF expert / researcher for various podcasts.
There is no way that Ned would have stopped if the King just told him to suck it up. The King if he was smart would have locked Jaime in the cells and kept him there until Tywin wrote off his debts. The idea that he cared about what Cerci thought is laughable. If so he would have slept with whores under her roof.
But Cersei didn't care about Robert sleeping with whores so she wouldn't have kicked up a fuss. She very much cared about her brother.
Tywin could have essentially bankrupted the realm by calling in his debts, and almost certainly could have worked with the Iron Bank to limit any recourse. Robert had no leverage whatsoever.
I never said Ned would have accepted it, but his honour, you know the trait that lead to his eventual downfall, would have meant had his king commanded it he would have. In fact I'm sure Robert did order something like this, but that may have been show only.
Also Robert was an incredibly weak king. He never would have imprisoned Jamie to blackmail Tywin.
I never said Robert cared about Cersei. But he cared about what her being his wife brought, the gold of Casterley Rock.
I feel like you don't quite understand the true motivations of the characters in the books.
Did you bother to read it? As I was saying it was the queen that stayed the King's wroth over Ser Criston ruining the celebrations. That's what I have been saying all along. Most Wroth doesn't seem like cleaning the toilets to me.
I've seen the list that he is saying that we don't know of any King's Guards that were dismissed for violence but we haven't got a complete list of every King's Guard ever only the ones active in the books.
Nope. He was prepared to leave because two kids that he had never met were being put in danger I doubt he would have allowed his daughters to be put in danger.
Again, unless he's doing something completely unprecedented it doesn't matter how wroth he is.
Also of course we don't have a list of every Kingsguard ever but it seems an odd assumption to suggest that this situation is somehow a unique exception to the documented and established history. Nobles died in tournaments all the time, many at the hands of Kingsguards.
Are we having separate conversations? I've never said anything to do with the girls or Ned protecting the bastards.
Had Robert commanded Ned to make amends with Jamie he would have done it. Simple as. That is Ned's weakness. He respects authority to his ultimate detriment. He may have resigned as Hand off the back of such a command but he would have done as commanded, no doubt.
He is fully prepared to allow his daughters to be in danger until Varys visits him in the black cells and gives him a wakeup call. Ned is pretty thick all things considered.
There are HUGE degrees of separation between being wroth and sentencing someone to death; especially someone who could have easily have claimed he was doing his job as a defence.