A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

We struggled against the shit teams, dropped many points along the way. This is the majority of the league games.

What's the point of lame bragging rights "we're great in the big games" beating top teams in the league, but failing to beat them to the finals and even worse drop many points vs the rest of the "weaker" teams in league.

No wonder we've gone backwards, we only care about the big league games, with our players only step up in that occasions (league) then complacent and doesn't bother when facing the other teams. It's also what still-supporters of LVG advocating - he's good vs the top teams therefore he should stay. Rather we win the league back than winning cups.
 
I sincerely hope Mauricio would consider managing the English National Team sooner rather then later. Mauricio has got the skillset in my eyes required that is lacking with the current manager in charge

He's already has experience in England now and he knows many of the players in the squad and I'm pretty sure he watches the Premier League ready..

I'm sure if we offered the job to him tommorow he would not hesitate in his decisoon to join us.
 
Not sure what we are waiting for. I have said multiple times already and barely anyone believed me. Ole isn't the right manager to take us back on top. I did question myself and actually taught I could be wrong because I couldn't explain the amount of good fortune Ole has. But then I realized, that me being wrong rarely happens. So, I believe things will normalize when Ole unexplainable good fortune cease to exist.

Rant, aside. We should, be looking at hiring Pochettino. Ole might win a domestic cup, but United standard are higher than that as seen with mourinho and lvg. I don't think it is wise to wait until the season is near the end to evaluate whether to keep Ole because it will just be the same cycle of false dawns even if he comes out of this season with some trophies. Ole doesn't have the characteristic and the tactical understanding of a top manager.
 
He's not the best tactically. But we need someone who can take players to a new level. Pochettino improves players, and that's something that hasn't happened in all managers post-Ferguson.
 
Amadaeus said:
Not sure what we are waiting for. I have said multiple times already and barely anyone believed me. Ole isn't the right manager to take us back on top. I did question myself and actually taught I could be wrong because I couldn't explain the amount of good fortune Ole has. But then I realized, that me being wrong rarely happens. So, I believe things will normalize when Ole unexplainable good fortune cease to exist.

Rant, aside. We should, be looking at hiring Pochettino. Ole might win a domestic cup, but United standard are higher than that as seen with mourinho and lvg. I don't think it is wise to wait until the season is near the end to evaluate whether to keep Ole because it will just be the same cycle of false dawns even if he comes out of this season with some trophies. Ole doesn't have the characteristic and the tactical understanding of a top manager.
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:lol: Brilliant
 
Amadaeus said:
Not sure what we are waiting for. I have said multiple times already and barely anyone believed me. Ole isn't the right manager to take us back on top. I did question myself and actually taught I could be wrong because I couldn't explain the amount of good fortune Ole has. But then I realized, that me being wrong rarely happens. So, I believe things will normalize when Ole unexplainable good fortune cease to exist.

Rant, aside. We should, be looking at hiring Pochettino. Ole might win a domestic cup, but United standard are higher than that as seen with mourinho and lvg. I don't think it is wise to wait until the season is near the end to evaluate whether to keep Ole because it will just be the same cycle of false dawns even if he comes out of this season with some trophies. Ole doesn't have the characteristic and the tactical understanding of a top manager.
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You wont sack him this season unless you drop way down the table.
 
MattofManchester said:
He's not the best tactically. But we need someone who can take players to a new level. Pochettino improves players, and that's something that hasn't happened in all managers post-Ferguson.
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He can organize a consistent defense, which Ole hasn't shown the ability to do in two years.
 
Love Poch as a manager and he’s my first choice to replace Ole (no compensation payment too). However, I’d really like to see Wenger manage England. Feels like he has all the required attributes for the job.
 
When the time comes and we finally get him I think we will see a bit of a revelation the same way we can see with Cavani as our proper no9. Obviously with the difference Pochettino has so much more potential because his coaching career is still very much ahead of him.

Just looking at some stats alone when he made Tottenham from one of the worst/laziest teams in the league topping the charts in terms ofdistance covered and his general idea how to play football We have some absolutely mint players for him to work with. Would be fun to watch Bielsa and his understudy in the same league managing big rivals.. just hope we don´t miss this chance otherwiseit will be not fun waiting for the appointment looking at (no) real options out there..
 
RashyForPM said:
Love Poch as a manager and he’s my first choice to replace Ole (no compensation payment too). However, I’d really like to see Wenger manage England. Feels like he has all the required attributes for the job.
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Yeah I know exactly what you mean. If Poch manages United that’s it for the Wenger England dream.
 
Cassidy said:
Took Spurs to first UCL final, took Spurs to a team that can beat Chelsea away after how many years but his mentality is still questioned. Took Spurs to a team that can beat United home and away, took Spurs to a team that can beat City home and away
His mentality isn't the issue, his boards was (failed to strengthen the side when it was needed)
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He wouldn’t fair much better with our board and owners.
 
At this point I'd prefer Hasenhuttle. He'd be able to attract young talented players from the bundesliga and the Austrian league, and has PL experience and has shown he can improve players and make a shoestring budget team punch far above their weight.

Pochettino's record in the transfer market was very hit and miss. Hasenhuttle would give us an advantage perhaps when it came to signing the likes of Upamecano, the next Haaland, the next Werner etc due to links to Germany and Austria.
 
Cassidy said:
Took Spurs to first UCL final, took Spurs to a team that can beat Chelsea away after how many years but his mentality is still questioned. Took Spurs to a team that can beat United home and away, took Spurs to a team that can beat City home and away
His mentality isn't the issue, his boards was (failed to strengthen the side when it was needed)
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Spot on, not forgetting that tight cnut Levy wouldn't give him any spending money.
 
I'm not convinced that Pochettino is the right man for us because of his overall trophy record. I have a niggling doubt about whether he can get his players across the winning line when it's down to the final match.

That said, Ole is obviously not able to handle these situations either in a semi-final or a must win to quality game.

Currently, therefore, I'd take him over Ole because I have lost faith in the current man in charge. I do think, however, that our squad would be seriously challenged if he took over.

Pochettino goes for a high-pressing, attacking style of football usually in a 4–2–3–1 formation. His teams build from the back, he expects them to intimidate and unsettle opponents with a quick-press system and work the ball into the box. He's also red-hot on fitness and stamina.

We don't have many players currently who could handle his type of football. Our levels of fitness, stamina and effort aren't impressive across the squad so Poch's arrival could be a real shock to the system for many. And maybe that's exactly what's needed?
 
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InLevyITrust said:
You wont sack him this season unless you drop way down the table.
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I agree, ole has put himself in a position that isnt catastrophic enough to get him sack, but also in a position where he isn’t good enough to win anything significant. You can call it the “state of Wenger,” where we may get top four again and win trophies, but we won’t meet the standards of United of old, where we are one of the top clubs in Europe. It just shows the ambitious we have as our club now if that is acceptable. Eitherway, I have always stated that if Ole finished this season like last season, then he should get sacked. But, I would sack him now because I know that Ole isn’t the right manager to take us forward. Nagelsman looked more like a coach than ole and that is even with ole beating him 5-0.
 
Amadaeus said:
I agree, ole has put himself in a position that isnt catastrophic enough to get him sack, but also in a position where he isn’t good enough to win anything significant. You can call it the “state of Wenger,” where we may get top four again and win trophies, but we won’t meet the standards of United of old, where we are one of the top clubs in Europe. It just shows the ambitious we have as our club now if that is acceptable. Eitherway, I have always stated that if Ole finished this season like last season, then he should get sacked. But, I would sack him now because I know that Ole isn’t the right manager to take us forward. Nagelsman looked more like a coach than ole and that is even with ole beating him 5-0.
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:lol:
 
Poch is a better manager than Ole simples, so I'd imagine he'd get much more outta that squad, Ole has steadied the ship no doubt n done his best but I think sooner rather than later, we should make a change.
 
MattofManchester said:
He's not the best tactically. But we need someone who can take players to a new level. Pochettino improves players, and that's something that hasn't happened in all managers post-Ferguson.
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I don't get why people say this - what evidence do people have for this? He made Spurs into a stable top four side and a force in Europe with a pretty minimal net spend - are we judging him because he could only guarantee top 4? Compare his Spurs team with our current one - they score more, lose less and we know his style of football suits the PL and is exciting to watch. Spurs became every neutrals favourite team under him, something that has now moved on given Jose's style.

People have called Ole great tactically because he gets us to sit and counter against bigger teams...is that why Poch is not great tactically because he will play front foot football? I don't get it. His style was a success at Southampton & a success at Spurs but yet he is not good tactically...he's not even my first choice for a coach but we have to be fair.
 
If Jose Mourinho end up winning the league or even finish just few points off the title winner, you have to question Pochettino ability of taking us into next level. Pochettino had Dembele, prime Dele Alli, prime Eriksen, Vertonghen & better right back which to me he had better and no worse players (except the current Son) than Mourinho and yet he failed to win the league once against Chelsea’s Conte & Leicester who are worse than the current Liverpool.

Mourinho failed with the same players with our current one that had Rashford, Martial, Shaw, DDG, Lindelof, Fred, Matic, Pogba, McTomminay with additional of Lukaku & Herrera. There is big question mark on whether Poch is the right man or no. In my opinion, stick with Ole or replace him with Marco Rose or Nagelsmann. The fact that those two managed to pass through tough CL group with players they got speaks much more about their ability than Poch. And Poch’s record against the top 6 makes it even worse.
 
Poch reached CL final. It's a proper challenge there.

Poch had a great team, but he didn't have a great squad. Mourinho struggled when he took over last season, until he could reinforce and added squad depth for this Tottenham team. However, you have to consider the context that Tottenham is playing EL, which allows Mourinho leeway to tinker with squad players and integrate new players. If they're playing in CL, then they would need more quality even for the the back up. That would be a different ball game since they don't have huge budget to compete in the market.

Mourinho lost the dressing room and clash with the United way that fan expected. Performance wise, it's not all bad when he still got the dressing room. We won trophies, and got 80+ points in his second while getting to FA Cup final.

Hypothetically, Poch can match that level of performance Mourinho got from this squad, and with Poch method being in line with United way; it's reasonable to think he can keep progressing with squad. With our spending power, Poch wouldn't be stuck with just a strong starting XI but weak squad.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I don't get why people say this - what evidence do people have for this? He made Spurs into a stable top four side and a force in Europe with a pretty minimal net spend - are we judging him because he could only guarantee top 4? Compare his Spurs team with our current one - they score more, lose less and we know his style of football suits the PL and is exciting to watch. Spurs became every neutrals favourite team under him, something that has now moved on given Jose's style.

People have called Ole great tactically because he gets us to sit and counter against bigger teams...is that why Poch is not great tactically because he will play front foot football? I don't get it. His style was a success at Southampton & a success at Spurs but yet he is not good tactically...he's not even my first choice for a coach but we have to be fair.
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You’ve answered your own question.

If playing front foot football against an opponent where that is not a good tactic, then he’s lacking tactically, surely?

I’m not necessarily of that opinion of Pochettino but that goes for any manager who plays the same way in every game. You have to be flexible, that’s the whole point of tactics.
 
youngrell said:
You’ve answered your own question.

If playing front foot football against an opponent where that is not a good tactic, then he’s lacking tactically, surely?

I’m not necessarily of that opinion of Pochettino but that goes for any manager who plays the same way in every game. You have to be flexible, that’s the whole point of tactics.
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Please reread my post. I'm asking the question because I don't think it's logical to say that - just because someone takes more risk, it doesn't make them poor tactically if the risk/reward works out in their favour, relative to the team they are managing. Also factor in, particularly earlier on in his spurs career, he was at a distinct disadvantage to the 'bigger' teams from a quality perspective and so any successes there should be worth a lot more weight.

Is a coach naïve because they don't automatically revert to sitting deep and countering against top teams? Is Bielsa or Hasenhuttl poor tactically because they don't play 5 at the back against teams with much better players?
 
Plymouth Red said:
And maybe that's exactly what's needed?
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Not this season it isn't. Pochettinos teams tended to fade at the end of the season due to his playing approach so imagine what that would be like under a Covid schedule?

I know people want us playing high tempo, pressing football but that simply isn't realistic right now. We have to take a pragmatic approach, the repercussions of Covid is going to linger on for several seasons too. This summer the players will get feck all pre season again as they jump straight into the Euros after this mental season. Therefore the players are going to have played 2 and a half seasons worth of fixtures before they finally get a decent pre season with time off. Physically and mentally I imagine that's going to be tough for the lads at United and all players in the league.

Gut tells me that if we do go with Pochettino, it will be another bad mistake in a collection of bad/terrible mistakes.
 
High pressing is last decades news, same as tika taka was the previous deacades big news.

It’s all about being adaptable in your approach now
 
Zlatan 7 said:
High pressing is last decades news, same as tika taka was the previous deacades big news.

It’s all about being adaptable in your approach now
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Bayern won the CL, Liverpool the PL last season....Liverpool won the CL before that and City the PL before that...

Look at the teams across different leagues who are performing above expectations: Southampton, RBL (in fairness I think they should be top 4 but have done well in CL), Monchengladbach, Sociedad, AC Milan. Of those the first 4 press like maniacs - in honesty I don't know enough about AC this season but assume they don't press too much with Ibra up top. Other teams are catching up and proving it's not some mystical skill but a very coachable aspect of the game - Potter at Brighton seems to have added a press in a short space of time, most of the German/Austrian group are well known for it, Leeds are doing well for a newly promoted team and their extreme tactics. United have talked about it a lot but we've never really seen any evidence of it.

The point is, pressing is not the only way to play football but I do think having a team that can press well is the only way to win trophies now over a season unless you are absolutely stacked with Galactico level players. It's also worth remembering that Guardiola's Barcelona side was one of the best pressing sides we've ever seen so it's hardly like Tiki-taka and high pressing are mutually exclusive.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Please reread my post. I'm asking the question because I don't think it's logical to say that - just because someone takes more risk, it doesn't make them poor tactically if the risk/reward works out in their favour, relative to the team they are managing. Also factor in, particularly earlier on in his spurs career, he was at a distinct disadvantage to the 'bigger' teams from a quality perspective and so any successes there should be worth a lot more weight.

Is a coach naïve because they don't automatically revert to sitting deep and countering against top teams? Is Bielsa or Hasenhuttl poor tactically because they don't play 5 at the back against teams with much better players?
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If a coach decides to play expansive or attacking football against a superior team, majority of the time all they are winning is some fabricated moral high ground. Being brave or naive is not being tactically smart is it? It’s just being brave or naive.

Just last week our manager was this against PSG and look at the pelters he’s received for it.

We all love our team to be on the front foot, but some pragmatism does help from time to time.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Bayern won the CL, Liverpool the PL last season....Liverpool won the CL before that and City the PL before that...

Look at the teams across different leagues who are performing above expectations: Southampton, RBL (in fairness I think they should be top 4 but have done well in CL), Monchengladbach, Sociedad, AC Milan. Of those the first 4 press like maniacs - in honesty I don't know enough about AC this season but assume they don't press too much with Ibra up top. Other teams are catching up and proving it's not some mystical skill but a very coachable aspect of the game - Potter at Brighton seems to have added a press in a short space of time, most of the German/Austrian group are well known for it, Leeds are doing well for a newly promoted team and their extreme tactics. United have talked about it a lot but we've never really seen any evidence of it.

The point is, pressing is not the only way to play football but I do think having a team that can press well is the only way to win trophies now over a season unless you are absolutely stacked with Galactico level players. It's also worth remembering that Guardiola's Barcelona side was one of the best pressing sides we've ever seen so it's hardly like Tiki-taka and high pressing are mutually exclusive.
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Yes, last decade
 
youngrell said:
If a coach decides to play expansive or attacking football against a superior team, majority of the time all they are winning is some fabricated moral high ground. Being brave or naive is not being tactically smart is it? It’s just being brave or naive.

Just last week our manager was this against PSG and look at the pelters he’s received for it.

We all love our team to be on the front foot, but some pragmatism does help from time to time.
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Again please reread, I specified "just because someone takes more risk, it doesn't make them poor tactically if the risk/reward works out in their favour, relative to the team they are managing". We're not talking about Farke at Norwich where they tried to play beautiful football and were relegated, we're talking about Pochettino's Spurs.

Wait, are you saying Ole tried to play front foot football against PSG?
 
Poborsky's hair said:
When the time comes and we finally get him I think we will see a bit of a revelation the same way we can see with Cavani as our proper no9. Obviously with the difference Pochettino has so much more potential because his coaching career is still very much ahead of him.

Just looking at some stats alone when he made Tottenham from one of the worst/laziest teams in the league topping the charts in terms ofdistance covered and his general idea how to play football We have some absolutely mint players for him to work with. Would be fun to watch Bielsa and his understudy in the same league managing big rivals.. just hope we don´t miss this chance otherwiseit will be not fun waiting for the appointment looking at (no) real options out there..
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Agreed, 100%. Not even just Poch, but a few others too. We're struggling and have a limited style of play that is reliant on individual inspiration on the day, under Ole. Meanwhile we are all here arguing over stupid stats etc.

I firmly believe if we just took the plunge, we'd never look back. Poch would take us up a level or two. To a title? Who knows. But if not then we could easily hire a top manager at that point to see it through. This is what other top clubs do.

Let's just act like a fecking top club that is ruthless for success for once.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
fair play :lol:
I'll wait to see who wins the cups this year - if Jose win the PL and Simeone wins the CL I will forever bow to your wisdom.
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Ha, it was said in jest :)

I do see where you’re coming from but styles don’t last for ever, teams are already working out how to counter a high press well, I don’t think it’s the be all and end all
 
pocco said:
Agreed, 100%. Not even just Poch, but a few others too. We're struggling and have a limited style of play that is reliant on individual inspiration on the day, under Ole. Meanwhile we are all here arguing over stupid stats etc.

I firmly believe if we just took the plunge, we'd never look back. Poch would take us up a level or two. To a title? Who knows. But if not then we could easily hire a top manager at that point to see it through. This is what other top clubs do.

Let's just act like a fecking top club that is ruthless for success for once.
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We don't need to be a fecking top club to remain a lucrative source of income for our owners though. Is Pochettino worth the risk - that is the question the owners have to answer. Sticking with Ole has the benefit of working with what management is familiar with - with the risk being disasters like getting knocked out of the CL and all the income lost from that defeat, not to mention what is clearly a stagnation. What is the Risk/Return of going for Pochettino? Would we risk missing out on a better manager in the near future? Would we need to spend and sell to tailor a squad to his liking? Would we have to sack him again in a couple of seasons, given ownership/management and the institutional rot that has been the one constant through the past decade still remains?
 
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