A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

NWRed said:
That is your opinion. We won't know whether he is capable or not until he's given the chance to implement his ideas, which he hasn't had.

As I've said I like Pochettino but we've tried managers with much better track records of success than him and they failed miserably. Ole deserves a proper chance.
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We've tried buying qualily players before but they didn't make it here, so lets not buy quality players again. The logic is absurd. If we weren't 8th in the table in this stage of the season, there might be some merit for giving Ole more time, but his results are worse than José, LVG and Moyes. Ole is failing miserably.
 
Black and White for me.

If Ole wins the Europa League and/or Gets into the top 4, he has shown some improvement and deserves another Summer & Season to build more with Champions League football.

If Ole doesn't get top 4 / win the Europa, then it would be genuinely neglectful to not hire Pochettino as our new manager. Wherever Pochettino goes next, i'm convinced he'll be a success.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Black and White for me.

If Ole wins the Europa League and/or Gets into the top 4, he has shown some improvement and deserves another Summer & Season to build more with Champions League football.

If Ole doesn't get top 4 / win the Europa, then it would be genuinely neglectful to not hire Pochettino as our new manager. Wherever Pochettino goes next, i'm convinced he'll be a success.
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So if we win Europa League and come 8th you think he should keep his job? Ok

Unless significant improvement is seen between now and season end Ole should be removed in the summer. Coming top 4 or winning Europa may not necessarily mean there has been significant improvement. Heck we are not that far off top 4 right now with how poor Chelsea have been.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
If Ole gets CL football he deserves another year. No if's no buts. Fair is fair.
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What if we continue to limp our way into the top 4 and only get there because of equally horrendous form from other teams? I don't care about superficial league positions, it's about what I'm seeing on the pitch that matters to me.

If we genuinely are interested in Poch and choose to stick with Ole because he somehow scrapes something together, then you can add it to the list of terrible decisions made by Woodward.
 
Cassidy said:
Why?
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It would be an amazing achievement given the circumstances. Winning the Europa in a season when he has managed with one hand tied behind his back deserves a chance for him to finish what he has started in terms of recruitment.

Nobody knows what Utd looks like with the correct signings and fully fit team. Next season you could see a much better side on the pitch.

I know LVG got sacked after winning the FA cup but circumstances were very different.
 
AneRu said:
Plus its kind of hard to keep a squad happy on a rigid wage structure that pays them well below their actual worth. Its funny that over the years posters on here have always argued, in debates against Glastonspur, that Spurs will have a hard time keeping hold of their stars on their current contracts when they could be paid more elsewhere but somehow fail to take that into account when assessing Spurs' meltdown.

Like you said, he knows how to coach the playing style Ole claims to want and need billions to implement. He has done that twice in his career and there is no doubt that we have a young squad suited to those methods and funds to add to it, the opportunity is there to set right the missteps of the past several seasons and we'd be fools to let it pass. If we have him in charge it suddenly becomes possible to attract the best young players in the league and in the world whilst he has a record of coaxing huge improvements from young players.
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Despite all you say, we still have deluded supporters that want to stick with Ole. Give him a proper chance. Because he is currently in the job and it wouldn't be right if we just sacked him. It defies logic.

You go on Twitter and you see the how the rival club fans laugh at with Ole at the wheel. They make jokes about hoping we keep Ole. I bet that would stop if we got Poch.
 
PepsiCola said:
His record against big teams is also quite shit.

If we hire him I feel his ceiling with us is the same as with Spurs. Top 4, no silverware but "put the pressure on".

The CL final display by spurs was still a shocking show, also a major red flag.
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His record against big teams is no red flag to me. Imo the record is just the natural consequence of playing attacking possession football against teams who do the same with the backing of 200m pound squads. Maybe employing more pragmatism would have secured more smash and grab victories but cant fault anyone for not choosing to play that way versus league opposition
 
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RedBanker said:
Employees holding critical posts are often relieved when someone better is available.
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Agreed, I am not disputing that. I am responding to why it is fair.

But it is your opinion that someone better is available, the board might have different opinions.

If you have set someone a target and they meet it, clearly they feel the employee is doing his job as the expect him to.
 
3KDré said:
I really don’t know how anyone could be against this when he’s the best manager available. He’s also quite clearly one of the best COACHES around, and we are very poorly coached as a team. He’s also young, knows the league well and also will help us attract better players. The best players want to play under the best coaches.
Even if he doesn’t win anything here, at least we will be better coached.
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Meanwhile this has become my opinion exactly as well.
 
romufc said:
Agreed, I am not disputing that. I am responding to why it is fair.

But it is your opinion that someone better is available, the board might have different opinions.

If you have set someone a target and they meet it, clearly they feel the employee is doing his job as the expect him to.
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When we do an employee review at the end of the financial year, especially for critical designations, we not only see the achievements or fulfilling of targets but also how said employee got there. Was he achieving his monthly targets or he left it for the last quarter to get to his goals? How well has he utilized his budget allocations? What's his performance vis-a-vis his direct competitors in the same designation cohort? Etc etc...

What I am trying to say is, since his permanent appointment neither our results nor our style warrants further time for Solskjaer.
 
RedBanker said:
When we do an employee review at the end of the financial year, especially for critical designations, we not only see the achievements or fulfilling of targets but also how said employee got there. Was he achieving his monthly targets or he left it for the last quarter to get to his goals? How well has he utilized his budget allocations? What's his performance vis-a-vis his direct competitors in the same designation cohort? Etc etc...

What I am trying to say is, since his permanent appointment neither our results nor our style warrants further time for Solskjaer.
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I agree its not black and white alot of other factors too.

But when you do a review, you also look at the factors that have affected the manager.

If you as a manager meet your targets with constraints such as thin squad, major injuries to your key players, there will be a benefit of doubt.

However; saying that Ole has now 3 months, players coming back to fitness and if the football doesnt improve then clearly he is failing.
 
romufc said:
Because that was the target at the start of the season, you don't sack someone who meets targets.
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Was that the target? Ok
Well it wasnt my target so I would sack him unless he shows massive improvement.

Pretty sure attacking football on the front foot was a massive reason Jose was shown the door and Ole made permanent. But ok UCL qualification was the only target.
 
romufc said:
I agree its not black and white alot of other factors too.

But when you do a review, you also look at the factors that have affected the manager.

If you as a manager meet your targets with constraints such as thin squad, major injuries to your key players, there will be a benefit of doubt.

However; saying that Ole has now 3 months, players coming back to fitness and if the football doesnt improve then clearly he is failing.
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Even if you are part of the reason the squad is thin in the first place.
 
Will be interesting to see what Pochettino does with the fullback situation at United.

His system at Spurs relied heavily on dynamic attacking full backs (Walker leaving and Rose declining was the beginning of the end for him) and while AWB and Shaw are decent defenders they won't be what Pochettino requires going forward.

I could see him asking for a top quality attacking right back while making Williams his pet project on the left.
 
Cassidy said:
Was that the target? Ok
Well it wasnt my target so I would sack him unless he shows massive improvement.

Pretty sure attacking football on the front foot was a massive reason Jose was shown the door and Ole made permanent. But ok UCL qualification was the only target.
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His target was actually to “reboot the culture” at Utd.
He is not part of the reason the squad is thin. The players that left needed to go and he was not given replacements.
Even this last window we all knew we needed a striker and yet we had to loan a player from the Chinese league on the last hours of the window. I guess you think that was Ole’s plan to wait?

Yes we wanted Haaland it didn’t happen

Cassidy said:
Was that the target? Ok
Well it wasnt my target so I would sack him unless he shows massive improvement.

Pretty sure attacking football on the front foot was a massive reason Jose was shown the door and Ole made permanent. But ok UCL qualification was the only target.
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What was your target? Think before you answer you could expose yourself as being clueless if you say challenge for titles or top 4.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
His target was actually to “reboot the culture” at Utd.
He is not part of the reason the squad is thin. The players that left needed to go and he was not given replacements.
Even this last window we all knew we needed a striker and yet we had to loan a player from the Chinese league on the last hours of the window. I guess you think that was Ole’s plan to wait?

Yes we wanted Haaland it didn’t happen



What was your target? Think before you answer you could expose yourself as being clueless if you say challenge for titles or top 4.
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You can see read between the lines in the post.

Less about league position and more about foundations for long term success.

Develop a system of attractive attacking football and produce a well drilled side with patterns of play to break down stubborn opposition.

Given the outlay on Maguire and AWB then also to improve considerabally the defensive stability of the side.

Phase out older members of the squad whilst testing/developing young talents

I had low expectations from Ole anyway but those were my target for him this season.

To his credit he has developed some of the younger players. However I see little imtpovement in our attacking play/approach or defensive stability.

If he gets top 4 whilst doing those things then great. If he gets top4 whilst playing how we have been all season only because Chelsea and others are just as crap... well no he wouldnt meet the target for me

I would think after Jose and looking at pool that we would learn by now that league position is not the only indicator of how the manager is performing. Especially early on
 
Cassidy said:
Why?
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I feel because it's the minimal objective set by the Glazers and irrespective of the way we play it would ear mark a successful season to build forward for next year. I feel there is zero chance we will finish in the top four, look at our next five fixtures, there's every chance we could be near the bottom half of the table end of March.
 
Cassidy said:
You can see read between the lines in the post.

Less about league position and more about foundations for long term success.

Develop a system of attractive attacking football and produce a well drilled side with patterns of play to break down stubborn opposition.

Given the outlay on Maguire and AWB then also to improve considerabally the defensive stability of the side.

Phase out older members of the squad whilst testing/developing young talents

I had low expectations from Ole anyway but those were my target for him this season.

To his credit he has developed some of the younger players. However I see little imtpovement in our attacking play/approach or defensive stability.

If he gets top 4 whilst doing those things then great. If he gets top4 whilst playing how we have been all season only because Chelsea and others are just as crap... well no he wouldnt meet the target for me

I would think after Jose and looking at pool that we would learn by now that league position is not the only indicator of how the manager is performing. Especially early on
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Again your not taking into account we’ve had no midfield to implement the attacking style you speak of.

I saw a stat saying that Pogba was third best for through balls this season. He’s only played 5 games. imagine we had him all season do you think we wouldn’t be higher up the table?

Ole didn’t plan on Pogba being out all season but clearly the club had a plan to bring in Bruno.

These the foundations you speak of? We could have been much more attacking and then improved with Bruno coming in January.
 
Cassidy said:
Was that the target? Ok
Well it wasnt my target so I would sack him unless he shows massive improvement.

Pretty sure attacking football on the front foot was a massive reason Jose was shown the door and Ole made permanent. But ok UCL qualification was the only target.
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I am pretty sure results was the reason why Jose was out the door, in addition with falling out with players.

Ofcourse it is but Ole can easily turn around and say you gave me Lingard, James, Perreira to work with and injuries to the main players hampered that.

Well, no offence but I think the board will have set a realistic target of UCL considering the state we put ourselves in.

What was your target?
 
balaks said:
It feels inevitable at this point that Poch will be Utd manager next season. Mixed emotions about it as I'd be happy for him but also extremely unhappy that he will likely turn Utd around which is not what I want.
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Why? We're not your traditional rivals, and hopefully we're less annoying than the scousers winning things. There were rumours that he was going to arsenal, that would have been worse, surely!
 
Fridge chutney said:
Why? We're not your traditional rivals, and hopefully we're less annoying than the scousers winning things. There were rumours that he was going to arsenal, that would have been worse, surely!
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They like to think they're our rivals but it's delusion. On their sub in reddit they usually talk bad.
 
Wilt said:
Remarkable that he turned Spurs into a consistent top 4 club and got to a CL final on virtualy the same budget as Utd pay De Gea per year!

I can only imagine what he could achieve with a budget normally afforded to Man Utd manager.
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Yeah, it would be interesting to see - though I would caution that spending money doesn’t equate to successful signings or success on the field - as we should know. Some managers just thrive in the “underdog” arena or in a place where they’re mainly the coach and a DoF is responsible for playing personnel - whilst the pressure at United is ten fold.

I’m a big admirer of Poch, don’t get me wrong. It would just be interesting to see if he signs big money signings - if they are successful. I’d be confident they would be....
Wilt said:
Been thinking the same. But I think Poch would still prefer Utd as Pep would be a very hard act to follow, whereas following on from Ole ...
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Yeah, I agree with that. Rebuilding a decaying United side versus following in the footsteps of Pep....I think United prospect is highly attractive for any manager.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Why? We're not your traditional rivals, and hopefully we're less annoying than the scousers winning things. There were rumours that he was going to arsenal, that would have been worse, surely!
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You are one of our main rivals nowadays though. Don't get me wrong if he went to Arsenal that would be 10 times worse.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
Again your not taking into account we’ve had no midfield to implement the attacking style you speak of.

I saw a stat saying that Pogba was third best for through balls this season. He’s only played 5 games. imagine we had him all season do you think we wouldn’t be higher up the table?

Ole didn’t plan on Pogba being out all season but clearly the club had a plan to bring in Bruno.

These the foundations you speak of? We could have been much more attacking and then improved with Bruno coming in January.
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Exactly we can all talk about playing entertaining football but it wont happen if we do not put out a consistent team.

The teams mentioned are Liverpool, City, Leicester whilst some are even mentioning SU and Wolves.

It would be worth for those people having a go at Ole regardless of anything, to go have a look at those teams when they are playing great football, how many of the first 11 play majority of their games?

Liverpool - 8/11 play most games
City - 8/11 would play majority of games
Leicester, SU, Wolves - 9/11 would play most of their games

City have had 2 injuries to Sane and Laporte and it disrupted their season.

If we played the same 11 for even half the season you would see some attacking football
 
NWRed said:
It isn't a case of choosing between Ole and Pochettino for a vacant position though, Ole is in the role, so you need a valid reason to sack him, and for the reasons I stated earlier (quoted below) he deserves more time.
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We're in 8th place. There's your valid reason for sacking him. Next.
 
Seems to be quite a bit of smoke now with Poch, to the point it looks like the club may have at least inquired with his people. I think if the next month goes bad for Ole (which is very possible) then this will definitely happen.
 
PepsiCola said:
Ole has won trophies, poch has not.
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Wow. I thought I'd seen some delusional Ole fans on the Caf but enter PepsiCola. That fact that you would choose a username like PepsiCola rather than Coca-Cola already demonstrates that you're willing to accept 2nd best.
RedDevilUnited369 said:
His target was actually to “reboot the culture” at Utd.
He is not part of the reason the squad is thin. The players that left needed to go and he was not given replacements.
Even this last window we all knew we needed a striker and yet we had to loan a player from the Chinese league on the last hours of the window. I guess you think that was Ole’s plan to wait?

Yes we wanted Haaland it didn’t happen



What was your target? Think before you answer you could expose yourself as being clueless if you say challenge for titles or top 4.
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How the hell can you say this? Of course he is part of the reason, as is Woodward. Ole fans want to give him all the credit for the signings and all the credit for getting rid of the "deadwood" but none of the blame for the thin squad. Him selling and loaning the "deadwood" and putting so much faith in youth and shite players like Lingard and Perreira and Mata is a big part of the reason we have such a thin squad.
 
Dancfc said:
Will be interesting to see what Pochettino does with the fullback situation at United.

His system at Spurs relied heavily on dynamic attacking full backs (Walker leaving and Rose declining was the beginning of the end for him) and while AWB and Shaw are decent defenders they won't be what Pochettino requires going forward.

I could see him asking for a top quality attacking right back while making Williams his pet project on the left.
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Dalot?
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
If Ole gets CL football he deserves another year. No if's no buts. Fair is fair.
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Surely the objective is to get the best available manager available to us. If that's Poch, shouldn't we go for him?

Agree that CL would be a good achievement though, and Ole would be justified in feeling hard done by if they sack him when he achieves it.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
Again your not taking into account we’ve had no midfield to implement the attacking style you speak of.

I saw a stat saying that Pogba was third best for through balls this season. He’s only played 5 games. imagine we had him all season do you think we wouldn’t be higher up the table?

Ole didn’t plan on Pogba being out all season but clearly the club had a plan to bring in Bruno.

These the foundations you speak of? We could have been much more attacking and then improved with Bruno coming in January.
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I have taken everything into account plus the fact 130m was spent on defence when creativity was always going to be a bigger issue. He was part of that choice and so for me I judge him on that too.

Ole knew from the previous season that without Pogba creativity was an issue even with Pogba.
 
billybee99 said:
We're in 8th place. There's your valid reason for sacking him. Next.
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billybee99 said:
Wow. I thought I'd seen some delusional Ole fans on the Caf but enter PepsiCola. That fact that you would choose a username like PepsiCola rather than Coca-Cola already demonstrates that you're willing to accept 2nd best.
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Are you around 20 years old? Your username must be your birth year, because you act like a child.
 
So is everyone who wants this to happen expected to hope Ole doesn't have a late season revival and get us top 4? because that's how we work isn't it (only really acting in positions of weakness.)
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
So is everyone who wants this to happen expected to hope Ole doesn't have a late season revival and get us top 4? because that's how we work isn't it (only really acting in positions of weakness.)
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Ed seems to be a main member of the so called Ole in brigade, so perhaps he will give him even more chances to prove his worth, but in the end it's a positive thing we are heavily linked with Pochettino. It creates healthy pressure and some serious option to consider if we'll get relegated.
 
Van Piorsing said:
Ed seems to be a main member of the so called Ole in brigade, so perhaps he will give him even more chances to prove his worth, but in the end it's a positive thing we are heavily linked with Pochettino. It creates healthy pressure and some serious option to consider if we'll get relegated.
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And I was just thinking finishing outside the top 4 would be enough to see a change happen!

Personally I'm still hoping Ed's job is on the line of Ole fails, Ole's time here wouldn't have been wasted if so.
 
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