A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

GlastonSpur said:
Did you say "hyperbole"? :lol:
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That's not hyperbole. If anything I was undercooking how stupid your post was.

Do you honestly believe that there is more chance of Messi going to Accrington Stanley than Kane leaving Spurs this summer? You think that that statement has any grounding in reality?
 
Kane is Spur's only world class player? Alderweireld? Arguably the best CB in the league? Sure Spurs certainly have some dross, Lamela, although this is more to do with him being a sick note than footballing talent, Sissoko is bang average. That Janssen guy looked like a championship level player(whatever happened to him?). And a bunch of kids, Alli, Winks, N'Koudou, Walker Peters, Foyth, Sanchez(that fecking haircut).

Getting back on thread topic do people really feel Poch is Madrid pedigree? He hasnt won anything ever as far as I know, thats not to say I see him as a bad coach, just I dont think he is up to Madrid standard. Spurs is his level for me. He's a young coach, I think with a bit more experience and winning a trophy or two would definitely add some weight to his resume and then we can talk about the Bayern's, RM's of the world. One thing I will say I dont think he would ever coach Barca because of his Espanyol links. I remember seeing him in an interview talking about the rivalry and I honestly think he would turn it down, seems that kind of guy.

Would Spurs miss Poch? Sure, but if someone like Ancelotti came in would losing Poch be that devastating for Spurs?
 
Neither Real Madrid or Barcelona are afraid of giving a chance to a young, unsuccessful (in terms of trophies won) manager. I can see why both have be linked to Pochettino in the past and presently, in Madrid's case because even though he's never won anything, he has proven himself a good squad builder, good man manager and at playing good football.

Like a few others, I do think that would be the end of Kane at spurs if Poch did leave. He's increasingly unhappy and Spurs' lack of ambition, pay structure and lack of trophies. Tbh, a player of his caliber deserves more. Now don't get me wrong. I wouldn't actually like to see him leave Spurs. (Unless it was to United) In an ideal world, levy would spend some money and build a team worthy of Kane and pay those players a decent wage but sadly, I don't see that happening. Unfortunate because it would be nice to see a world class talent like Kane, stay at his boyhood club and enjoy, at least some, success.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Fine. But again it doesn't change the fact that Pochettino has assembled a top 4 team - competing against several money-bags clubs - for absolute peanuts.
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That doesn’t make him a top manager just like it didn’t make moyes a top manager keeping Everton in top6/8 spending even less money or pulis keeping stoke in the premier league spending even less again.
He may become a top manager when he moves but never will at Spurs especially if the measure of success is top 4 spending peanuts.
 
If he goes to Madrid he'll take Kane with him. Did the same with Alderweireld at Saints.
 
Runner said:
If he goes to Madrid he'll take Kane with him. Did the same with Alderweireld at Saints.
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Great news. That will weakened Spurs and we can finally have top 4 again not top 6 anymore. Top 6 is too much in my opinion.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Passing judgement on transfers without taking net spend into account is like betting on a horse and ignoring the added weight it carries due to handicap.
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No. Net spend is utterly irrelevant in terms of player performance. For we've seen teams like Real sale flops for higher than they bought them. Which says more about the club's business skills than the manager's ability to sign the right player
 
GlastonSpur said:
This just shows how out of touch with reality you are. With Spurs soon to move into our new stadium, the chances of Kane being this summer sold are a rock solid zero.

Real could offer £250m and Levy wouldn't even take the phone call.
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Please stop wetting your pants with your fantasies. Levy would never turn a bid down worth 220m plus. No chairman with business acumen would no matter what stadium he is getting in the future:lol:
 
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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
That's not hyperbole. If anything I was undercooking how stupid your post was.

Do you honestly believe that there is more chance of Messi going to Accrington Stanley than Kane leaving Spurs this summer? You think that that statement has any grounding in reality?
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I suggest you lighten up a bit and stop taking everything so literally. However, the answer to your question is 'no' ... in that there is equally zero chance of either event happening.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No. Net spend is utterly irrelevant in terms of player performance. For we've seen teams like Real sale flops for higher than they bought them. Which says more about the club's business skills than the manager's ability to sign the right player
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Yes, net spend is irrelevant in terms of player performance - in that it doesn't change player performance - but it's highly relevant when it comes to evaluating a manager's overall transfer record.

You began all this by referring to Pochettino's allegedly bad record when it comes to transfers. But now that his record on transfers at Spurs has shown to be clearly excellent overall (including in the context of amazingly low net spend) - see my list of players signed - you now want to shift your ground onto player performance. Well, OK ...

The players I listed have all generally performed well ... as reflected in our move up the table since Pochettino arrived.
 
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This time last week Alexis Sanchez had zero chance of being a Utd player. Things change.

Real are having a terrible season (by their standards) with Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale all possible to leave in the summer. There's going to be another galactico style spending spree coming the PL's way. Hazard, Kane, Salah, who knows.
 
Thisistheone said:
This time last week Alexis Sanchez had zero chance of being a Utd player. Things change.

Real are having a terrible season (by their standards) with Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale all possible to leave in the summer. There's going to be another galactico style spending spree coming the PL's way. Hazard, Kane, Salah, who knows.
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Lol ... Sanchez is/was out of contract this summer. Kane's contract expires in 2022. Big difference (4 years in fact).

Sanchez was unhappy at Arsenal and wanted out. Kane is not unhappy at Spurs and doesn't want out. Another big difference.

If Sanchez is your guiding light for a Kane sale to RM this summer, then I'm afraid your boat is going to end up on the rocks.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Lol ... Sanchez is/was out of contract this summer. Kane's contract expires in 2022. Big difference (4 years in fact).

Sanchez was unhappy at Arsenal and wanted out. Kane is not unhappy at Spurs and doesn't want out. Another big difference.

If Sanchez is your guiding light for a Kane sale to RM this summer, then I'm afraid your boat is going to end up on the rocks.
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The Sanchez to Utd chances were thought to be zero because he was clearly going to City. Everyone thought so. Not because his contract was only 6 months instead of 4 years.

And I don't want Kane to go to Real. I want him at Utd.
 
Thisistheone said:
This time last week Alexis Sanchez had zero chance of being a Utd player. Things change.

Real are having a terrible season (by their standards) with Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale all possible to leave in the summer. There's going to be another galactico style spending spree coming the PL's way. Hazard, Kane, Salah, who knows.
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What are they gonna do? Muscle city? City is the muscle
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Please stop wetting your pants with your fantasies. Levy would never turn a bid down worth 220m plus. No chairman with business acumen would no matter what stadium he is getting in the future:lol:
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As I've said, you're out of touch with reality and ignorant of the surrounding financial circumstances.

£220m is dwarfed by the potential commercial deals surrounding the new stadium: Levy is not going to put these deals at risk this summer by selling our most iconic player.
 
Thisistheone said:
The Sanchez to Utd chances were thought to be zero because he was clearly going to City. Everyone thought so. Not because his contract was only 6 months instead of 4 years.

And I don't want Kane to go to Real. I want him at Utd.
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Regardless, the Sanchez situation is not remotely an analogy to that of Kane ... it's ridiculous to drag the former into this discussion.
 
automaticflare said:
That doesn’t make him a top manager just like it didn’t make moyes a top manager keeping Everton in top6/8 spending even less money or pulis keeping stoke in the premier league spending even less again.
He may become a top manager when he moves but never will at Spurs especially if the measure of success is top 4 spending peanuts.
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We were discussing his transfer record at Spurs (which is excellent overall), not whether he is a "top manager".
 
GlastonSpur said:
Regardless, the Sanchez situation is not remotely an analogy to that of Kane ... it's ridiculous to drag the former into this discussion.
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The point being made was, in football anything can happen. Even when you think it's impossible, like I did with Sanchez.
 
The Don said:
Neither Real Madrid or Barcelona are afraid of giving a chance to a young, unsuccessful (in terms of trophies won) manager. I can see why both have be linked to Pochettino in the past and presently, in Madrid's case because even though he's never won anything, he has proven himself a good squad builder, good man manager and at playing good football.

Like a few others, I do think that would be the end of Kane at spurs if Poch did leave. He's increasingly unhappy and Spurs' lack of ambition, pay structure and lack of trophies. Tbh, a player of his caliber deserves more. Now don't get me wrong. I wouldn't actually like to see him leave Spurs. (Unless it was to United) In an ideal world, levy would spend some money and build a team worthy of Kane and pay those players a decent wage but sadly, I don't see that happening. Unfortunate because it would be nice to see a world class talent like Kane, stay at his boyhood club and enjoy, at least some, success.
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Lol ... how you arrive at this startling conclusion is anybody's guess. It's pure wishful thinking.

As for the club's alleged "lack of ambition": pouring close to £1 billion pounds into a new stadium complex and new training centre says otherwise. These are foundation stones towards Levy's aim of establishing Spurs as one of the elite world clubs.
 
Noir said:
No wonder you guys consider Poch world class too.
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LOL. Alderweireld is blatantly world class and the best CB in the league. Do me a favour, your knowledge of PL football is clearly appalling.
 
The Don said:
Neither Real Madrid or Barcelona are afraid of giving a chance to a young, unsuccessful (in terms of trophies won) manager. I can see why both have be linked to Pochettino in the past and presently, in Madrid's case because even though he's never won anything, he has proven himself a good squad builder, good man manager and at playing good football.

Like a few others, I do think that would be the end of Kane at spurs if Poch did leave. He's increasingly unhappy and Spurs' lack of ambition, pay structure and lack of trophies. Tbh, a player of his caliber deserves more. Now don't get me wrong. I wouldn't actually like to see him leave Spurs. (Unless it was to United) In an ideal world, levy would spend some money and build a team worthy of Kane and pay those players a decent wage but sadly, I don't see that happening. Unfortunate because it would be nice to see a world class talent like Kane, stay at his boyhood club and enjoy, at least some, success.
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Where do you get this nonsense from? All of Kane's quotes are about him wanting to win trophies at Spurs, break Greaves record and stay at Spurs for a long time. Everything else is rival fans delusions because they ideally want Kane to leave as it makes a rival weaker.
 
What's quite clear is there are some pearls in here.

Alderweireld is a decent player nothing more.
Kane is increasingly unhappy
Poch is an average manager


Wow guys. Those are some special comments indeed.

Poch has been the most consistent and best performing manager overall these past three years. Taking a team who would normally be finishing 4th/5th/6th up to 2nd, 3rd, and in the CL knockouts. Klopp for all his money and fame hasn't even finished above Poch yet. He is pretty much the best coach in the league at developing young players, he is a excellent defensive coach and also an excellent attacking coach. He is also extremely likeable unlike some other managers. He hasn't yet won a trophy but I think it's a certainty he is well on his way and when he does he will cement his standing as one of Europe's outstanding young managers.

I don't think he will be leaving Spurs anytime soon. I don't see Poch at Madrid, I think it's a weird project for him to take on. Managers don't last more than a season or two there. The obsession with Madrid taking Spurs manager and best player's on here is bewildering.
 
raggy said:
Regardless of how people rate Poch I'll never quite understand why United fans fantasize so much about the downfall of Tottenham.

Always a new thread or dicussion about how everybody is about to leave and it's all about to go wrong... for the past 3 years.
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Good thing then it was a Liverpool fan creating it!
 
GlastonSpur said:
Lol ... how you arrive at this startling conclusion is anybody's guess. It's pure wishful thinking.

As for the club's alleged "lack of ambition": pouring close to £1 billion pounds into a new stadium complex and new training centre says otherwise. These are foundation stones towards Levy's aim of establishing Spurs as one of the elite world clubs.
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InLevyITrust said:
@The Don

How is Kane increasingly unhappy?
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Primativ said:
Where do you get this nonsense from? All of Kane's quotes are about him wanting to win trophies at Spurs, break Greaves record and stay at Spurs for a long time. Everything else is rival fans delusions because they ideally want Kane to leave as it makes a rival weaker.
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Okay. I see I may have unintentionally riled you guys up but let's look at it this way..

Harry Kane is the best CF in world football right now. He's surrounded mostly by players well below his level.

He's a player that by now should already have a few medals.

He's at a club, that in my opinion, is a tier below his level.

He isn't getting paid anywhere near where he is worth.

He knows he can walk into any of the elite clubs in world football.

Spurs' transfer policy is centered around value, whilst all the other big clubs around them are splashing the cash and at least trying to sign the best players out there.
A good chance, if that doesn't change, that Spurs get left behind.

Do you guys honestly believe that Harry isn't thinking about those things, when every season for him is like groundhog day.

Look, I hope he does stay and become successful at Spurs. That would be a great story. At the moment, I just don't see how that happens unless all the issues above are addressed.
 
The Don said:
Okay. I see I may have unintentionally riled you guys up but let's look at it this way..

Harry Kane is the best CF in world football right now. He's surrounded mostly by players well below his level.

He's a player that by now should already have a few medals.

He's at a club, that in my opinion, is a tier below his level.

He isn't getting paid anywhere near where he is worth.

He knows he can walk into any of the elite clubs in world football.

Spurs' transfer policy is centered around value, whilst all the other big clubs around them are splashing the cash and at least trying to sign the best players out there.
A good chance, if that doesn't change, that Spurs get left behind.

Do you guys honestly believe that Harry isn't thinking about those things, when every season for him is like groundhog day.

Look, I hope he does stay and become successful at Spurs. That would be a great story. At the moment, I just don't see how that happens unless all the issues above are addressed.
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Again where has or does he even seem "increasingly unhappy", you haven't ruled me up but I can't argue with your opinion, but you can't state it as fact because everything that Harry has said goes against your opinion. I totally agree that he could get a move to a bigger club but that fact that there hasn't even been a bid says a lot, especially when 2 of the biggest clubs in the land wanted an out and out striker, does that not seem odd?
 
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The Don said:
Okay. I see I may have unintentionally riled you guys up but let's look at it this way..

Harry Kane is the best CF in world football right now. He's surrounded mostly by players well below his level.

He's a player that by now should already have a few medals.

He's at a club, that in my opinion, is a tier below his level.

He isn't getting paid anywhere near where he is worth.

He knows he can walk into any of the elite clubs in world football.

Spurs' transfer policy is centered around value, whilst all the other big clubs around them are splashing the cash and at least trying to sign the best players out there.
A good chance, if that doesn't change, that Spurs get left behind.

Do you guys honestly believe that Harry isn't thinking about those things, when every season for him is like groundhog day.

Look, I hope he does stay and become successful at Spurs. That would be a great story. At the moment, I just don't see how that happens unless all the issues above are addressed.
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Whilst some of those things you listed are true, your comment that Kane is increasingly unhappy is pure speculation and not based in any reality. What happens when Kane signs a new 5 year contract at Spurs in the next 6 months at 200 grand per week? Will that back up your assertion he is unhappy? The fact is, regardless of all the things you listed, Kane IS happy at Spurs. Maybe playing for your boyhood football club trumps turning out for an elite side where you have no attachment?!

Also, he isn't surrounded by players well below his level. He is surrounded by CL level players, some of whom are one of best in their positions in the league? Lloris, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Son, all have a case of being in the top 1 - 5 top players in their position in the league. So I don't really buy that. I think it's also a bit premature to say a player who as only 3 full seasons in the PL should already have some medals.

Yet again, you seem to think splashing the cash = success. Spurs have never splashed the cash yet routinely finish higher than rivals that do. Good luck to liverpool for spending 75 million on VVD. I'd rather have Vertonghen for 10 million and Alderweireld for 15 mill, both are superior CBs. When you look at facts like that it's hard to criticise Spurs transfer policy.
 
Primativ said:
Whilst some of those things you listed are true, your comment that Kane is increasingly unhappy is pure speculation and not based in any reality. What happens when Kane signs a new 5 year contract at Spurs in the next 6 months at 200 grand per week? Will that back up your assertion he is unhappy? The fact is, regardless of all the things you listed, Kane IS happy at Spurs. Maybe playing for your boyhood football club trumps turning out for an elite side where you have no attachment?!

Also, he isn't surrounded by players well below his level. He is surrounded by CL level players, some of whom are one of best in their positions in the league? Lloris, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Son, all have a case of being in the top 1 - 5 top players in their position in the league. So I don't really buy that. I think it's also a bit premature to say a player who as only 3 full seasons in the PL should already have some medals.

Yet again, you seem to think splashing the cash = success. Spurs have never splashed the cash yet routinely finish higher than rivals that do. Good luck to liverpool for spending 75 million on VVD. I'd rather have Vertonghen for 10 million and Alderweireld for 15 mill, both are superior CBs. When you look at facts like that it's hard to criticise Spurs transfer policy.
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Did you just suggest wanyama and dembele are among the top 5 midfielders in the league? Really?
 
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GlastonSpur said:
As I've said, you're out of touch with reality and ignorant of the surrounding financial circumstances.

£220m is dwarfed by the potential commercial deals surrounding the new stadium: Levy is not going to put these deals at risk this summer by selling our most iconic player.
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No, you clown. Its you who is entirely out of touch with the realities of football. No club would turn down 200m plus for a player who isnt in the Neymar, LM10 or CR7 bracket of player and a Real can comfortably turn the head of a Kane. And your club didnt turn down just 80m for Bale. So for you to claim they'd not even consider twice that is beyond delusional. Not to mention you foolishly imagine Spurs has the pulling power to make top end financial deals for a stadium, even if Kane is on your roster.

The only thing that will ever stop a Kane leaving Spurs is himself. Not Levy, not future commercial plans. If he loves Spurs as much as Shearer loved Newcastle he will never leave.
 
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No, you clown. Its you who is entirely out of touch with the realities of football. No club would turn down 200m plus for a player who isnt in the Neymar, LM10 or CR7 bracket of player and a Real can comfortably turn the head of a Kane. And your club didnt turn down just 80m for Bale. So for you to claim they'd not even consider twice that is beyond delusional.
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We turned down £100M from you lot thou lol.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No, you clown. Its you who is entirely out of touch with the realities of football. No club would turn down 200m plus for a player who isnt in the Neymar, LM10 or CR7 bracket of player and a Real can comfortably turn the head of a Kane. And your club didnt turn down just 80m for Bale. So for you to claim they'd not even consider twice that is beyond delusional.
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The Bale transfer was years ago, when your "just" £80m was an astounding figure. Now it's not.

Let me educate you: Spurs are looking for a variety of commercial deals with our new stadium, not least a naming rights target of £400m ... that alone is double the figure you suggest Levy would accept for Kane. In relation to these prospective deals, having an iconic, high profile player like Kane at the club is a key factor.

Levy knows this. He also knows that Pochettino would resign if Kane were sold. And he knows that a successful first season in our new stadium is imperative: he's not going to damage the team's prospects in that season by selling our best player (and the world's best striker), losing the best manager we've had a for a long time and sparking an exodus of other star players at the club.

For all these reasons - and more - the sale of Kane this summer simply isn't going to happen. If other clubs thought they had the slightest chance of signing Kane they would have moved heaven and earth already. They haven't ... and that's because they know it's impossible.

This, for example, is the reason why Mourinho went for Lukaku and not Kane, despite knowing that the latter is a much better striker.
 
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So he comes to Spurs, doesn't win anything and rumoured to land the Real Madrid job based on what?
He has done some good work with Spurs, and if I stretch it a bit, maybe he has turned some good kids with potential into great talents.

But is that what Real wants? Someone who could make kids better, but remain just one level below the big prize.
 
GlastonSpur said:
The Bale transfer was years ago, when your "just" £80m was an astounding figure. Now it's not.
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Talk of refusal to understand. 200m plus of today is EXACTLY the type of figure that 80m was to get Levy to part with Bale. But lo and behold, in your delusional version of reality you imagine that person who sold Bale for that very fee, would turn down a similar fee.

GlastonSpur said:
Let me educate you: .....
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Quit boring me to death with nonsense.

GlastonSpur said:
If other clubs thought they had the slightest chance of signing Kane they would have moved heaven and earth already. They haven't ... and that's because they know it's impossible.
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Wrong. Kane as a player as per last summer had not reached a level for teams to want to add him to their sides badly enough. It had feck all to do with any of them thinking a deal impossible.

PS: United did not need Kane at all. Not when the plan was to also add a Griezmann to the ranks who was of a higher calibre of player to Kane as of last summer. No way were we going to blow our budget on one player, even if he is better than Lukaku and pass up a Griezmann. Only thing is sadly for us Griezmann showed loyalty to ATM over their transfer ban for one more year. And we'd be reviving that deal next summer if this Alexis opportunity didnt exist. And none of that proves Kane was/is impossible to buy".
 
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