My question exactly
January isn't exactly the best time to be visiting Ireland in general. Weather doesn't tend to be that great.A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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January isn't exactly the best time to be visiting Ireland in general. Weather doesn't tend to be that great.But it would have given something tangible to his legacy at Spurs, and for that very good squad they've had for a few years, now, in a few years time, he'll just be another name of a winless coach on a list. It's crazy for coaches not to go for domestic trophies, it also takes some pressure off a coach at a club that's expected to be competing for trophies. To get that first cup is a big thing, especially at a club that hasn't won for a while.
Pochettino is a good coach though, and surely Man Utd have to be going for him for next season.
Honestly don't think he's the one to rebuild us and take us back to glory which is what we should be looking at. I think if he won the league in 2017 or the champions league final I would have had a different view about him. But he doesn't strike me as a winner. He reminds me of Martial. The way you know Martial is very good but in the end he is not going to reach the standards of the United striker - Rooney RVN RVP.
Anyways he's definitely going to improve us but I don't think he will take us to the next level - Champions league glory, league dominance. Maybe what we need is someone like him to make us competitive again before getting a coach that can take us higher. But when I see what Klopp has done to that Liverpool side then it's certainly possible we can dominate again in the next 5 years or less and I don't think Pochettino is that person
Nagelsmann strikes me as the generational talent of managers and I hope we are monitoring him
Anyways he's definitely going to improve us but I don't think he will take us to the next level - Champions league glory, league dominance. Maybe what we need is someone like him to make us competitive again before getting a coach that can take us higher. But when I see what Klopp has done to that Liverpool side then it's certainly possible we can dominate again in the next 5 years or less and I don't think Pochettino is that person
Nagelsmann strikes me as the generational talent of managers and I hope we are monitoring him
Did you see me brand Poch lucky? Also 2 in 3 seasons is not luck
P.S their squad was not even close to Barcas or Madrids
This is ridiculous, I am not even saying we should hire Allegri. Also since when has Allegri been a defensive manager? He is a manager who uses various different setups and has been both defensive and attacking. Also he developed some young talent like Dybala
Again no suggesting we should hire him but that is no reason to go around calling a manager who took Juve to 2 UCL finals in 3 years overrated, it is ridiculous.
More than winning a UCL or league?
Have I quoted saying you said we should hire Allegri, I was stating the two names mentioned on here.
Okay, so who in your opinion should be the next manager?
It is my opinion that he is a defensive coach from all the years he has been at Juventus.
Right.. he developed Dybala who scored 13 goals and 10 asssists for Palermo in 14/15.
Since his move to Juve
15/16 - 19 goals 7 assists
16/17 - 11 goals 7 assists
17/18 - 22 goals 5 assists
18/19 - 5 goals 2 assists
I am sure he was the manager for Palermo when Dybala was coming through because he was producing numbers before even joining up with Allegri.
So what do you make of Zidane as a manager?
Alderweilder however you spell his name was a RB sub for Athletico Madrid. Look at him now. All I’m saying in regards to how good this man is.
I’d still love him here he would get more out of this squad I’m almost certain.
But you can't plan a career like that, 'I'm going to sack off the cups to get a far better chance to win a league or CL'. It doesn't work like that. As now Pochettino well knows, being as he got sacked having won nothing at Spurs.
He was there what, for five years? It's one thing 'concentrating' on the league and CL, but quite honestly, sometimes it's better to walk before you run. It's almost arrogant to dismiss domestic trophies, especially when you haven't even won one, and when your club hasn't won anything in a while, let alone the league or CL. I get that it's tough in the PL because of the schedule, but you can always seriously compete for one domestic trophy every once in a while! I remember playing then in the Europa a few years ago too, and they didn't go all out for that either, which was incredible to me, it would have been a great trophy to win - and they could have had a great chance too.
At least winning a domestic cup would be something tangible. Sure in an ideal world coaches and clubs and fanbases want to win the biggest trophies, but Spurs had not won anything in a while, to win a cup would have been great for the fans to remember that great team by and great for Pochettino.
He played there one season, mainly at CB, and struggled to get into a team that had Godin and Miranda in their pomp and a very promising Gimenez also at CB.
There's no doubt that Alderweirled developed into a top player under Poch but he was a good prospect at Ajax and then never had a real chance at Atletico. It wasn't like he was nothing before Poch.
He gambled, it didn't pay off.
I agree though that he shouldn't have done that, but he almost proved me wrong and you too, fine margins
He ended up at Southampton also so its not like he was some top talent clubs were chasing, its great development by Poch
Alderweireld joined Southampton under Koeman in 2014 not Pochettino.
Since always. Allegri is the manager who prefers to win 1-0 in a borefest than a 5-3 thriller
Hell, in the one season he coached a genuinely great attack, they scored 37 goals in their first 13 but conceded 13 as well and lost a couple of games. After losing to Sampdoria he essentially came out and said the problem was Juventus shouldn't win 4-3 and clipped their wings. It worked because they won the league and conceded 10 goals the rest of the way, but they also scored nearly 1 goal less per game
He joined Spurs under Pochettino
Off the back of a very good season under Koeman. All his 'development' is down to Poch though? A manager he didn't even want to renew for.
Spurs fans talking the most sense in this thread.
I’m sorry was United linked with him after his season at Southampton? I didn’t think so.
He didn’t want to sign because he wasn’t earning much and had one more top contract in him. That’s what happens when big money moves are a possibility.
Where was that said?
Was he rated as the best CB in the league at Southampton? I think not
It was good development by Poch, also he is a player past his best post injury and should not be renewed, but hey ho lets see what happens
Our defence isn't good at all. And there's a difference between strengthening the defence and wasting funds on both Maguire and AWB for a combined £130m. And to compound things, Smalling was sent out on loan.
Pochettino's work in the transfer market at Spurs was generally good. Every manager buys duds but for the most part Pochettino got his recruitment right. The one hesitation is a lack of trophies as a manager. He had a glorious opportunity to go for the league in 2015/16 but Spurs being Spurs they fell short. So ultimately the question is, is he a winner?
Your defence is good. Not great, but good, and dramatically better than it was in the last two seasons
Our defence wouldn't be any worse if we had signed players from the German Bundesliga for half the price of what we paid for Maguire and AWB.
So my point about the money being spent badly still stands.
This could potentially be our "Klopp" moment, if we miss out on him whilst he's there out in the open, free to get, then we really are as absolutely stupid as everyone already thinks we are.
We have 4 clean sheets this season, only 2 teams have less than us.
In 17/18, when you claim we were worse in defense, we conceded 28 goals all season. This season we already conceded 29 after 24 games.
Our defense is nowhere near good and we spent 130m on it in the summer.
Correction, your defence wouldn't be any worse if you signed Alisson. Your defence went from subpar(17/18) to pretty bad(last season) to good.
Maybe you're right and you could have gotten the same improvement from cheaper players, we'll never know. Fact is the signings are doing their job, if not as well as you were hoping
Then again might be Ole is part of the problem too...i don't think so personally, but it's possible a great manager could have playing better defence than merely good
In 17/18 De Gea was a MONSTER. Your defence was subpar, you just got bailed out time and again by goalkeeper standing on his head
Guess what? De Gea is bang average now
Our defence deteriorating coincided with Mourinho destroying the harmony in the dressing room which has been well documented by reputable Journos in England. Allison actually would make a difference because he could actually command his area which would've really helped.
Is Maguire doing his job at the £80m paid for his services? Did that fee justify Ole letting Smalling leave on loan? Any sane person would say NO. Only Everton have conceded more goals from set-pieces.
Ole is part of the problem that I agree with. But the money spent on Maguire and AWB can never be justified when the the midfield and attack were so threadbare. Ole was naive and should've broadened his horizons and looked to the continent for cheaper alternatives. Juventus bought Demiral for how much? Compare his performances to Maguire and his price tag and the Turkish lad tops Maguire on both.
Not so sure about that. I mean it was already subpar in 17/18 before the cracks began
Mostly his shot-stopping, plus the aura of invincibility he seems to project on strikers
Maybe not. But he's good and doing well.
Set pieces are more about coaching and luck than players.
That's my point. You made a decision to focus on one specific area, which kinda implies tou were willing to take the risks with the season
You signed Bailly and Lindelof, how'd that work out? No wonder you went for a sure thing this time
Demiral plays on a dominant side(whose defence isn't better than yours btw). Easier to do well there
In a way, but I don't see him ever being close to the manager Klopp is, not on the evidence we've seen so far.
If we miss out on him it'll be annoying, partly because I've no clue who our clueless board would appoint instead, but he's not the second coming.
Our defense being subpar in 2017/18 didn't mean we had to blow £80m on a CB that wasn't even considered Leicester's best CB last season. Nevermind being a sure thing.
Allison is vastly superior to De Gea in certain areas and him being in our back line would've been more beneficial due to him actually moving his ass off his line. Using Allison to make your point was a bad one.
Maguire isn't doing well for a CB that cost a world record fee. Are you sure you've been watching our games? Only reason I ask is due to you being a Real Madrid and Inter fan, so it must be a tough ask keeping up with 3 clubs from 3 different countries..
Set-pieces are about coaching and our current coach most likely is failing us there. But Maguire should be doing better and his flaws have been roundly discussed on here for a CB that cost a world record sum.
Focusing on one specific area isn't the big issue here. The issue as far as I'm concerned is who was targeted and at what cost. And I've mentioned why the personnel targeted were way overpriced.
Bailly and Lindelof? Lindelof was a CB that I was vocal about not signing from Benfica and my posts will attest to that. Bailly was a unknown player that was very raw but Mourinho still went ahead and signed him. Bailly was selling cigarettes in Ivory coast at the age of 17.
Demiral played in a dominant side with alot of competition. Big signing De Ligt couldn't even get into the 11 ahead of him until he suffered that awful injury. And the Juve defense is better than ours quite considerably. Players like Bonucci, Chiellini etc have far more pedigree at the highest level in comparison.
Thing is, there's no manager around that can get United back to CL glory and league titles with the way the club is run from the top. That said, Poch is a massive improvement over the current lame duck.
This! But knowing us, we'll wait long enough for Poch to sign a pre-contract with someone else and then we'll end up brining in Gareth Southgate.
Alisson is vastly superior to De Gea in every area and i used him as my example because he's essentially what De Gea used to be. Replace him with Oblak if you prefer, or Scesny
Sorry didn't make my point clear: price isn't relevant to the fact he's good and playing well. Yes you overpaid, but you still got a good player doing well, which was something of a sure thing
Bailly/Lindelof/Demiral all have in common the fact that they're young players, who may or may not turn out to be good
And after blowing all that money on those two only to then need another CB, it's understandable that you'd rather overpay for the sure thing rather than take another risk
Your recruitment and the whole process of it have been shambolic since Ferguson left. Last summer was one of your best relative to what you intended to do and planned for the season
They're not playing better though
Oh 100%, don't get me wrong, i don't think he's the second coming, I do however think he fits perfectly for the kind of manager we "want" or "need" however you see it, and is a vast vast upgrade on Ole unfortunately. My point was that, Klopp really should have been our manager, but Woodward sold it to him like a business, not a football club, and so he didn't want it, if Liverpool hadn't of got him then i still wonder if they'd be in the wilderness somewhat too, I think Pochettino has the capability, or has shown enough that I feel, given the step up, he could make it here, at least he'd have a far far better shot than Ole anyway. Personally i'd prefer say, Marco Rose or Nagelsmann but I feel like they are out of our reach given how they are currently doing at their respective clubs and the state we are in, Pochettino is, in my opinion, the best possible option we could get for what we want, before we have to think about downgrading to the likes of Southgate as an option, and he's available, now, without a club, just like Klopp was when Liverpool got him.
I agree with @giorno our defence is good, most of the goals we’ve conceded this season are from
1. Set pieces
2. Individual mistakes/ De Gea errors
I think the main problem is we lack proper coaching and organisation, at times we just look all over the place defensively. There’s just no structure.
1. Set pieces
2. Individual mistakes/ De Gea errors
I think the main problem is we lack proper coaching and organisation, at times we just look all over the place defensively. There’s just no structure.
Allison being vastly superior to De Gea would improve us. Just him coming off his line would improve our defense. Nevermind Allison, I believe Dean Henderson would improve our defense due to him being comfortably better than De Gea at commanding his area.
Maguire was never close to being £80m good. He was outperformed by ex United player Johnny Evans last season according to regular observers of Leicester city. He's never shown ability to command such a fee and we really should've walked away from such a overpriced player IMO.
Bailly and Lindelof were never considered elite CB prospects from my recollection. But we paid elite level fees for both at the time pre-Neymar. Demiral was bought for £15m in a post Neymar market at the age of 20. Mourinho's personal scouts have alot to answer for and it highlights ED Woodward's naivety.
Our recruitment has been awful and IMO hasn't been much better in the summer. Until the club change from manager to head coach we'll always be at risk with the current structure which doesn't use the club scouts to their full potential. A DoF as the point of contact between the scouts, CEO and head-coach would be the way forward IMO.
I'll quote a Juventus fan regards their defense below.
"We're transitioning from cowardly ball under Allegri to Sarri Ball, so we expected some teething problems"
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I wouldn’t say ‘didn’t want to renew for poch’, more didn’t want to renew for Spurs, was looking to leave and get higher wages, it’s not looking like those wages are forthcoming so he’s probably going to stay and not have to move his entire life.
The point was, was it necessary to spend £130m on Maguire and AWB to set about improving the defense or would it have been sensible to go for Ibrahima Konate over Maguire and some one like Max Aarons over AWB. Konate IMO is comfortably better than Maguire and is already regarded by some regular observers of the German Bundesliga as being among the best CBs in the league.
I'm pretty confident we would've saved a substantial amount with Konate and Aarons.
But I wouldn't have signed a RB due to Ethan Laird showing enormous potential.