Klopp had already won a final in Germany, just like he's won a league before, twice
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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If you going start playing that game, Utd should only have one European Cup to their name.
Bayern were the far better team and hit the woodwork how many times? But you won
Chelsea were the better team, hit the woodwork twice and then Terry slipped on the wet grass.
They already forgot about wenger, and he actually won titles
Who forgot about Wenger? He had an incredible legacy. Only very fairweather Arsenal fans will ignore the great work he did there.
And his time at the club ended in very toxic circumstances, I doubt it'll be the same under Poch.
Also we're not as big a club as Arsenal and have had far less success historically so it's not really a fair comparison. Us being in the top 4 regularly, getting to champion league finals, finishing 2nd in the league etc .. it's not 'the norm' like it is at the biggest clubs.
Who forgot about Wenger? And why should that matter?
If he won nothing how would people remember him in 10 years time.
Well Wenger hasn't retired yet, didnt see teams lining up to sign him.
Our fans will clearly remember him .. fans just don't remember trophies and football isn't only about them. He's done brilliant work for the club.
Will Rafa Benitez be remembered well by Newcastle fans? Of course, despite the fact that he's only avoided relegation.
The fans will remember what he's done for the club.
Oh yes, I couldn't agree more. Loyalty is a high value commodity in football. Just because they say it, it must be so.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?...608034172449720685&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0
I think if you don't get another batch of players as good as these current ones, there's a chance he'll be seen as the coach who blew your chance at winning a big trophy, a Champions League no less, while having one of your best ever set of players. I don't think history is as kind to these kinds of coaches as you imply.
I don’t need to ask a Spurs fan, it should be self-evident whenever you watch Spurs play. The fact that Spurs typically doesn’t lead their opponents in the last few matches in the champions league until Pochettino changes things up and the dynamics of the game is a recent example of this.
Tactically I thought he set up his defence and defensive midfielders pretty well and found massive pockets of space to exploit in behind Liverpool's centre backs, it's just a shame their attacking players all had so many bad touches when the moments came or were anonymous for large periods of time. It's sad because yesterday was a winnable game for them.
Wtf? Blew our chances?He got us (SPURS!) to a champions league final with a budget far behind the rest of the PL top six. It's an incredible achievement, he hasn't blown anything.
He will be remembered very fondly by our fanbase and rightly so.
Pochettino's in game management is patchy at best.
Some successes, some failures. It's definitely not exceptional.
A lot of the time he just goes throws on more attackers and goes for it.
Some successes, some failures. It's definitely not exceptional.
A lot of the time he just goes throws on more attackers and goes for it.
As you'll know, Spurs have not won a trophy for 11 years and have won only 2 trophies in the last 30 years. That's an awful record for a club as big as Spurs!
Yes, getting to the final of the CL was a great achievement but it's yet another season gone by with no trophy.
Your club is seriously lacking that hard nosed winning mentality.
If it were my team who hadn't won anything for donkey's years, I'd want them to start winning the FA Cup, League Cup and Europa League and would take them any day over finishing runners up in the CL. That will get that winning mentality back into your club, and it's then you start thinking about moving to the highest level and winning titles etc.
It was just a few seasons ago Spurs fans were happy to be getting Europa League. Now Poch has guided them to a CL final, surely he will be remembered for that at the very least. They are also regular CL place finishers now, and he has done it with a modern style of football.
You can't judge this Spurs team with the same expectations you put on the United team, it's apples and oranges due to the money invested in the squads. Over the past five years the net spend is
City -563mil
us -488mil
Liverpool -184mil
Chelsea -205mil
Arsenal -260 mil
Tottenham -28mil.
To put that in perspective the only team that have spent less than Spurs is Southampton who are actually in the green with a +31mil on net spend. City have spent over half a billion dollars in net expenditure, we are close ourselves with backing of successive failing managers. All stats thanks to transfermarkt
He got us (SPURS!) to a champions league final with a budget far behind the rest of the PL top six. It's an incredible achievement, he hasn't blown anything.
He will be remembered very fondly by our fanbase and rightly so.
I agree, I'm just saying that these managers who play good footie but win nothing usually aren't viewed too kindly historically. Maybe only by Spurs fans as they know the truth of the situation.
Pochettino has done an excellent job at Tottenham. I think he has recruited so well that I don't think prospective suitors would be put off by the lack of trophies. He took over a bloated squad from AVB/Sherwood and overhauled it brilliantly. He is clearly a good judge of player. He carries himself well.
He did make a mistake starting Kane who clearly wasn't and couldn't have been match fit. Moura would have been the better starter. Easy be wise in hindsight. Crucial summer ahead for Spurs.
He did make a mistake starting Kane who clearly wasn't and couldn't have been match fit. Moura would have been the better starter. Easy be wise in hindsight. Crucial summer ahead for Spurs.
I think opposition fans will mostly remember him as a very good manager who overachieved with a low budget. Not an all time great or anything, but certainly most people will view him in a positive light.
I'm happier being in the CL final than winning the league cup, FA cup or EL. Would be great to win any competition, but it's a greater achievement to be CL runners up. I don't believe winning a league cup would suddenly create a winning mentality any more than beating Manchester City and Ajax on the way to the final. Being in big games and performing is what matters, and we're doing well compared with our resources.
Can't agree with this, tbh. Whilst I am incredibly happy at the run with the run we've had, at the end of the day nobody remembers a loser.
I'd swap getting to a final for an FA cup trophy any day of the week. Watching this team win something would be amazing, we've had 2 lost finals now and multiple lost semi finals. We badly need to get our hands on silverware.
Progress and memories are important and I've always stressed that trophies are not everything in football, but you'd seriously not swap losing something for a victory? I felt empty and crap after the final and will always be haunted by the 'what ifs', the great memories are always overshadowed when you ultimately fail.
I think I had this discussion with a (now banned) Liverpool fan earlier in the year where he said he preferred to have reached the CL final to winning an FA cup. I found that idea ridiculous and still do, getting your hands on a cup is the best feeling as a fan and we've been starved of it for so, so long. The CL run is incredibly meaningful but it still ended in heartbreak for us.
He really failed to get the team going in the final. Kane starting was a poor decision as well. Was unimpressed with the style too.
Fair enough, and I can understand it to some extent, but for me, if the question is winning the FA cup or CL runners up I would pick CL runners up. Just because Chelsea got a trophy for beating worse teams than we did doesn't mean it's more worth winning the EL over CL runners up. Just as winning the Championhip isn't better than finishing mid table in the PL. Having said that, winning a cup would be fantastic and I'm desperate to win the league cup or FA cup, but if you ask me now if I would rather win the FA cup, but finish 6th next year, or have a decent CL campaign and finish top 4 again I'd pick the latter.
The stats showed otherwise. Spurs was dominant most of the game and he tactically outclassed Klopp so much so, that the gegenpress was non existent, Liverpool couldn’t get a hold of the game in terms on possession and the width provided by the fullback was nullified. You can’t blame Pochettino when some of his supposedly star players didn’t show up and made poor decisions on the pitch. I m sure you blamed Pochettino for the handball by Sissoko as well
. I don’t believe Kane starting was a poor decision. I believe Ali starting was the wrong decision moreso than Kane. I believe I was the only one or the first one that said Ali should have been dropped. He was criminally poor in this game. Looking at his performance, I was right which doesn’t surprise me anymore. Everyone is saying Kane shouldn’t start, but for me more attention should have falled in-line with my analysis of why Ali started that game instead of Moura .This is true, but who ended up happier? The Chelsea fans who beat a big rival 4-1 in a final, or us who limped to a 2-0 defeat in the final.
Us reaching a CL final is undoubtedly a bigger achievement than Chelsea winning the EL (we beat far better sides) but I'd still swap the 'moral achievement' for an actual trophy and the joy that comes with that. Especially since we're so starved of silverware recently.
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Looking at this game I honestly think our biggest priority in the summer should be new fullbacks. The contrast between the threat that TAA/Robertson held compared to Rose/Trippier was staggering.
We had zero threat from wide areas, the quality wasn't there at all. We have a pretty traditional striker in Kane and we aren't getting crosses in to the box, how criminal is that?
Rose did OK but still can't deliver a ball a fraction as well as the Liverpool pair. We're obviously not going to be able to go out and buy two quite as good as theirs, but we need to upgrade .. big time.
We had zero threat from wide areas, the quality wasn't there at all. We have a pretty traditional striker in Kane and we aren't getting crosses in to the box, how criminal is that?
Rose did OK but still can't deliver a ball a fraction as well as the Liverpool pair. We're obviously not going to be able to go out and buy two quite as good as theirs, but we need to upgrade .. big time.
Sorry, but I have to take issue with you on that bit!
An ageing, decling Chelsea team, saw off a peaktime Barca after being 2 goals down and down to 10 men at the Neu Camp, and we had injury problems as well.
Then had to beat Bayern in their own stadium in the final.
Way tougher than winning a QF against a team who've never even been to a CL final and then a good but young Ajax team.
Made an error there. I meant winning the EL.
Chelsea's CL win was obviously a bigger achievement .. that was still a great Barca side, and Bayern were amazing too. Napoli weren't half bad back then either with Cavani, Hamsik and Lavezzi.
We'll probably buy one of them then, once you've got someone good at it
Obviously cannot read? Hey ho that's how it goes, Terry slipped because he was fecking useless at taking pens, hey ho that's how it goes. .some people .
As for wet grass , wet behind the ears more like.
If Spurs finish runners up 5 seasons in a row and ultimately not win anything compared to Utd for example who constantly finish 6th in that time then using your logic who's a bigger bottler?
Perhaps you need to learn the definition of bottling, it has historically meant that you throw away a lead when you're in an advantageous position to win or to wilt under pressure i.e losing your bottle.
We don't call bottling failing to win a final you're not favourites in...you know why? Because we're not 12 years old and like to apply a semblance of logic and context to our arguments and in this case when you apply context for Spurs who didn't buy a single player and coming back from 3 goals down in a semi with 40 mins on the clock for example you'd probably realise that the term you're giving then sounds even more stupid.
The word has lost all of it's meaning this day and age, its hilarious the amount of people who throw it around carelessly.
Ah, typical newbie post.
Because football is all about keeping possession in your own half
. Winks had the exact same pass accuracy as Eriksen, but did nothing with the ball all game. Sideway passes in a pedestrian tempo. Spurs needed a goal an Winks did nothing but hinder them in getting it. There is a reason why he got subbed and Spurs looked much better when they had someone who played progressive passes in CM and got some tempo back in the game.Eriksen and Spurs was shite until he got moved back into CM and Lucas got in instead of Winks. It meant that they finally began to break the lines of Liverpool and move the ball faster. It was the two biggest problems for Spurs up until that point. Now they had another player in Lucas who could threaten between the lines of Liverpool and Eriksen in CM who would actually pass the ball forward with some tempo.
I have seen Winks have great games where his passing is much crisper and faster and where he makes more vertical runs. Games where he actually helps out offensively with passes and runs between the lines and where he doesn’t play scared when he has the ball. Against Liverpool he played way too scared and safe, especially considering Liverpool were more than willing to let him and Sissoko have the ball, because they knew nothing would happen. Winks has played some games as the defensive midfielder and it felt like he had forgot that he no longer was one. You can’t just have two players in CM that refuses to pass the ball forward and then expect to score goals.
Because football is all about keeping possession in your own half
I have seen Winks have great games where his passing is much crisper and faster and where he makes more vertical runs. Games where he actually helps out offensively with passes and runs between the lines and where he doesn’t play scared when he has the ball.
Winks was poor, but he like Kane should have started on the bench. Not played a decent string of games in what, three months? Longer? Drop Alli back into midfield to partner one brain cell Sissoko. Llorente up top with Moura running off him. Eriksen to link the play. Son as a wide threat, can stay wide and fire in a cross or cut in for a curling shot. All easy to say in hindsight I guess.
Winks fit and in form is a good player, Didnt look out of place against some top tier opposition. But he was well off the pace in the CL final, which was expected.
I'm not one of his biggest fans, but credit when credit is due. His CL route was nothing short of respectable and I don't believe he did anything wrong in the final.
Swatting aside Dortmund and huge win against all odds(City), then bailing against Ajax was quality stuff.
Swatting aside Dortmund and huge win against all odds(City), then bailing against Ajax was quality stuff.
Winks was good - honestly I don't get how people thought he had a bad game. I'd have started Kane - it was Son, Alli and Eriksen who were terrible on the night - I'd have played Moura from the start probably in place of Son.
agreed. if fans cannot see the improvement or progression of his teams, they have their heads in the sand.
Klopp won a trophy in his 11th season of management.
Because he didnt really have an impact? That is why people are saying he was poor, key passes? nope none, dribbles, one successful dribble taking the ball forward the whole game. For a game in which you had 65% possession. So you would think with that kind of poor contribution in offence maybe he was focused more on winning back possession? Nope zero tackles and zero interceptions. So, what did he do all match?
You might say he topped the passing stats, but that means nothing unless you are being progressive, two long passes forward the whole game with 65% possession from him? Passing it back and forth around the park then back to the defenders to recycle possession. Even though Alli had 10% less passing accuracy he at least was trying some things here and there and notched up 3 key passes.
I agree Eriksen Son and Alli didnt have a good night either, Son and Alli barely average, Eriksen uncharacteristically poor.
To me a win(title, cup regardless) is always a bigger achievement so that's that. Even if you met duds on the way.
Having said that when it is CL win vs EL final and considering the teams you beat I'd probably agree with you.
Same arguments were made about Carrick back in the day but anybody with any sense could see he was a very good player - Winks is that sort of player. He controlled the midfield on Saturday.
I think you'd struggle to argue beating Malmo, Dynamo Kyiv, Slavia Praha, Frankfurt and Arsenal is harder than beating Dortmund, Manchester City and Ajax.
In fact you just can't, really. Obviously actually winning something is better, but getting to the CL final is pretty objectively just harder to do. When Arsenal are the top side you face it's probably not all that great a competition.
Spurs have never been a big club. in my lifetime they have NEVER challenged for major honours and I am in my 30's so nothing to see here. the analogy is agreeable to a point. Of course those who are winning silverware are the champions of success. however each club has their own barometers of success, dependent on their budget, status etc. Surviving the drop is a success for some teams. the reality it until Poch can actually compete in the transfer market with the Liverpool's United's and Chelsea's, it would be hard for me to actually judge what he is truly capable of since in every league, the teams who invest in their squad the most, whilst retaining, tend to do the best. its a money game nowadays. We know the coaching attribute is there, tactics, game management, squad building etc, so whats left is to back him and see how he gets on.
for some reason, this does not seem to matter because we have to bash Poch and try to make ourselves feel good about choosing Ole over him. reality is we missed a trick
strange that so many miss these facts