If you think it's questionable that Mourinho would win something with this Spurs side you must have missed his entire career.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
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If you think it's questionable that Mourinho would win something with this Spurs side you must have missed his entire career.
The squad is not that important for a manager like Mourinho, he plays strong teams as much as possible to create momentum and winning mentality. Mourinho himself wanted Dier and Rose, and Wanyama and Dembele are typical CMs in his tactical setup. Eriksen would be a fantastic no.10 and Kane is unquestionably a world class striker. Spurs weakest position is probably the GK who is still a good GK, just not De Gea levels.
He would play the above players into the ground and they would win trophies. It's typical of players under him; they play like they are possessed because JM's motivational tactics are extremely effective. He probably wouldn't stay at Spurs beyond 3 years, but he'd win trophies.
Once again, the wages issue is hugely exaggerated by opposition fans who just look at basic pay. What they either ignore or don't know is that Spurs operate the most generous bonus system in the Prem.
This has the added advantage that it provides big incentives to play well. And the players who tend to benefit most from this are the better players - those so coveted by so many other teams.
Why does Poch get all the credit for all the relative recent success? Tottenham was a club which was already flirting with Champions league football under Harry and they were always in the top 6 or there about.
The biggest difference I see is the change in transfer policy of the club which has helped Poch achieve the results. I always remember Tottenham as a bit of feeder club to the other top clubs. They would buy the bargain talent from all over the world, develope them, get some decent results and than sell them off for a big profit. The biggest examples I can remember are Berbatov, Bale and Modric. I am sure there must have been other transfers as well. What we have seen in last few years is that Daniel Levy has been more patient and avoided selling their best talents perhaps due to upcoming stadium expansion and also to make it a competive club.
I am not trying to belittle Poch's achievments. But I do believe people are ignoring other finer details. In the end football is all about trophies though. In few years time unless Tottenham goes on to bigger things and win few trophies, no one is going to remember 'almost there' achievements for past few years.
The biggest difference I see is the change in transfer policy of the club which has helped Poch achieve the results. I always remember Tottenham as a bit of feeder club to the other top clubs. They would buy the bargain talent from all over the world, develope them, get some decent results and than sell them off for a big profit. The biggest examples I can remember are Berbatov, Bale and Modric. I am sure there must have been other transfers as well. What we have seen in last few years is that Daniel Levy has been more patient and avoided selling their best talents perhaps due to upcoming stadium expansion and also to make it a competive club.
I am not trying to belittle Poch's achievments. But I do believe people are ignoring other finer details. In the end football is all about trophies though. In few years time unless Tottenham goes on to bigger things and win few trophies, no one is going to remember 'almost there' achievements for past few years.
Rubbish. The current Spurs team would cruise to the Europa League title under Pochettino if they weren't destroying the likes of Real Madrid and Juventus in the Champions League and all their superstars currently. You don't think this current Spurs team can beat Ajax level teams?
I'm delighted we have Mourinho but he's had a far bigger squad to work with than Poch since he arrived meaning more squad rotation to keep players fresh and less chaos when key players get injured. Unai Emery and Brendan Rodgers will win multiple trophies this year. Does that mean they are the new Mourinhos?
Spurs were in the Europa league last season and got knocked out by Gent. The fact that you've missed this explains why the rest of your post is a shambles.
I don't think this Spurs squad would have been considered as strong as it currently is if Mourinho had taken over in 2014 instead of Pochettino. Would Mourinho have won something? Impossible to say, though I doubt it, and I certainly don't think his overall results would have been as good as Pochettino's.
This
I think Pochettino is good, and I think Mourinho is good.
If people want to say 'I think Mourinho would have won x with the Spurs team' you could also say 'I don't think Poch would leave Chelsea with relegation form'. Equally stupid imo.
If people want to say 'I think Mourinho would have won x with the Spurs team' you could also say 'I don't think Poch would leave Chelsea with relegation form'. Equally stupid imo.
United were in the league cup this season and got out knocked by Bristol City. The fact you've neglected to mention this explains why pointing to a single game or tie proves little or nothing.
Poch has us playing with an identity, an actual game plan and style of play that is both entertaining but has a back bone. I'e been a supporter since 92-93 and have not seen that from a manager until Poch arrived.
That's poor even by your standards given the guy he was replying to stated Spurs would cruise to the Europa League this season as a fact.
Both. People hear often speak as if bad football results in winning trophies.
We won the league cup last year though
Good for you. I wouldn't expect less for the hundreds of millions you've net spent on transfers - and your vast wages bill.
But of course all this is deemed irrelevant when it comes to judging Pochettino ... as if the Spurs squad wouldn't be even better than it is with access to such monies.
Who he was replying to (and why) is irrelevant. If he's going to point to the Gent result as a yardstick, then it's equally fair to point to Mourinho's defeat against Bristol City.
Yeah, we walked to the Europa League as well whilst you were getting knocked out by Gent. Suppose you needed hundreds of millions to beat them as well
.How can it be irrelevant when he's quoting a specific post and replying to it?
You're actually reinforcing his point with the Mourinho-Bristol example. There are no fecking guarantees in football so to say Spurs would walk the Europa this year is utterly mental especially when you look at the teams left in the competition.
Yeah, we walked to the Europa League as well whilst you were getting knocked out by Gent. Suppose you needed hundreds of millions to beat them as well
Yeah but again perspective is needed, Jose sacrificed the league for it, massive gamble and fair play to him it paid off.
OK, using the "He's not won anything so he's not good enough to manage United" is a silly argument in my opinion. Personally, I think he's showing himself to be a very good manager, and he's doing a very good job with Spurs, as he did with Southampton.
However, does that mean I'd want him at United, should Jose leave? I'm not sure about that. I've seen a number of managers down the years who looked great at certain clubs, were being talked about as potential United managers only for things to go south for them. I mean, remember when Moyes was here, and there was that Everton fan in here who was constantly harping on about how lucky they were to have Martinez, how amazing he was etc (can't remember his username, wonder if he's still around, hilarious).
At the same time, I look around at the managers in place currently, who would I want to take over from Jose that is potentially an option? I can't think of anyone to be honest. That's not to say that Jose is doing this perfect job.
As for Poch though, I think he's a good manager. I'll be interested to see how he builds from here if he stays with Spurs, they keep their players, and get an infusion of cash from the new stadium revenue. Or, if he takes a "step up" to a club who is a serious contender currently for CL and the like. At the same time, not sure I'd want United to take that chance.
However, does that mean I'd want him at United, should Jose leave? I'm not sure about that. I've seen a number of managers down the years who looked great at certain clubs, were being talked about as potential United managers only for things to go south for them. I mean, remember when Moyes was here, and there was that Everton fan in here who was constantly harping on about how lucky they were to have Martinez, how amazing he was etc (can't remember his username, wonder if he's still around, hilarious).
At the same time, I look around at the managers in place currently, who would I want to take over from Jose that is potentially an option? I can't think of anyone to be honest. That's not to say that Jose is doing this perfect job.
As for Poch though, I think he's a good manager. I'll be interested to see how he builds from here if he stays with Spurs, they keep their players, and get an infusion of cash from the new stadium revenue. Or, if he takes a "step up" to a club who is a serious contender currently for CL and the like. At the same time, not sure I'd want United to take that chance.
That’s not the point here. Have a look at the conversation. Glaston bringing up Bristol makes no sense here.
Yeah, we walked to the Europa League as well whilst you were getting knocked out by Gent. Suppose you needed hundreds of millions to beat them as well
Your main focus was on winning the Europa League ... not that you had any choice, seeing as it was your only chance to qualify for the CL.
Spurs, meanwhile were chasing the league title - and aiming for a top 4 finish at a minimum- so the EL was hardly a priority.
It's easy to point to single games or ties, but it proves little. Or else you can swap Gent last season for Real Madrid this time around, whom we beat without needing hundreds of millions.
We never really sacrificed the league for Europa, its just a narrative some have built to overlook our league standing last season. We were fighting on both fronts going into the last month or so. Its then that injuries having piled up and given the teams left in the EL vis-a-vis our remaining fixtures in the league that we sacrificed the league for the Europa.
Which is besides the point. He rebuilt that team from scratch, signed a mix of youngsters and unknowns and took them to incredible heights, turning a number of them into bonafide stars in the process. That is why now like Pep he only gets the moneyed jobs. Which was my point. No one should imagine Pochetino has reached Mourinho's bracket as a manager at any level. Even though he is doing the job well at spurs.
Now your excuses are just getting pitiful. Context would be a some what relevant excuse if an inferior Leicester side hadn't beaten Pochetino and Spurs to a league title. Leicester City left most sides with no excuse as to why they can't win titles with a strong core of players. That is one of the reasons even Wenger is now almost a laughimg stock.
So? My comment was about Mourinho being able to do exactly what Poch is doing and more. Not AVB. Not Juande Ramos.
This all well and good. Yet how is Howe relevant to my post exactly? Let alone this discussion.? Howe is at a club constantly fighting for EPL survival and punching above their weight. Pochetino and Wenger aren't at jobs with such a job description. Howe is comfortably doing a superior job to either of the two, but you'd be crazy to think he'd be superior to either of them in their current roles. The way some keep going on about Pochetino and the United job.
Again. I don't see how this is remotely relevant to what you replied to.
You are clueless
The guy said Spurs would win the Europa league. The year we won it you got knocked out by fecking Gent. So no, there are no guarantees that Spurs would win the Europa league.
You then bring up us losing to Bristol. That does not prove we cannot win the league cup because we already won it the year prior. Also, it’s not like you won the league cup either
. Difference is, we won the league cup and europa league. Spurs were in both and failed. Simple as, goodbye.
Yep, it is a silly argument. There aren't any managers around that can guarantee success in the PL. It will always be a case of some being more suited to the job than others. Of the current lot, I have Poch alongside the likes of Jardim and Sarri who I'd like to see at United if Mourinho was to leave/get the boot. That's not to say they'd be guaranteed success mind, the sheer scale of their jobs would go up astronomically and you never know how they'd deal with it. That said, I think they are amongst the ones with the best body of work atm. If trophy count was everything, people should want a Wenger here, I doubt anyone does.
You are clueless
The guy said Spurs would win the Europa league. The year we won it you got knocked out by fecking Gent. So no, there are no guarantees that Spurs would win the Europa league.
You then bring up us losing to Bristol. That does not prove we cannot win the league cup because we already won it the year prior. Also, it’s not like you won the league cup either
Difference is, we won the league cup and europa league. Spurs were in both and failed. Simple as, goodbye.
I didn't say that losing to Bristol proves you cannot win the league cup. In fact I inferred the opposite, namely that losing a single game (e.g. to Bristol) proves little, just as losing to Gent proves little.
It proves that anyone saying Spurs would walk the EL this year is a fecking mentalist ffs
. I doubt you're thick enough to not get this so I can only say this is a case of you having jumped in to defend Spurs without reading the context of the discussion and being too petty now to admit it and change your stance.
Why are we comparing Pochettino with Mourinho?
What’s their head to head trophy count over their careers so far?
If anything compare one of the other supposed ‘football artists’ like Klopp or Pep to Pochettino. Whats their trophy count?
The trend here is good managers get results managing with their own style. And don’t flaunt league positions. Poch should have won the league but instead his team threw away the best chance they’ll have for some time now that all of the other aforementioned good managers are settled and back in the hunt. No number of consecutive top 4 finishes will trump that failure in my mind.
What’s their head to head trophy count over their careers so far?
If anything compare one of the other supposed ‘football artists’ like Klopp or Pep to Pochettino. Whats their trophy count?
The trend here is good managers get results managing with their own style. And don’t flaunt league positions. Poch should have won the league but instead his team threw away the best chance they’ll have for some time now that all of the other aforementioned good managers are settled and back in the hunt. No number of consecutive top 4 finishes will trump that failure in my mind.
'He's not won anything so he's not good enough' is not really the argument some people are making. It is specifically with the players at his disposal that is the issue. They have one of the best strikers in the world, one of the best no.10s in the league, one of the best CMs in the league. One of the best CBs in the league. He doesn't need £150m to buy a striker because he has one already that would fetch that price etc.
We have seen Pochettino's quality in development and progressive tactics. He helped these players develop into a top quality team. Now is the next step; you don't get an allowance just because you're at Tottenham. These players want to win things and believe in Pochettino to bring them this, but can he?
This could be a small window of opportunity for the players and managers. There is only so long people will want to win the moral trophies in the league. We have seen this with Atletico Madrid, who are not the force they were; they grabbed that opportunity when they were really good to make some memories, that's a huge credit to the players and manager there.
100% THIS
Football is short term game, the managers that win titles realize they have a good thing and get everything they can get out of it. This is why most managers only last a few years, and this is why SAF is the greatest manager of all time, he could recreate that good thing over and over.
It feels like Pochettino is in some sort of limbo. He's obviously no mug of a manager, but there's every possibility that he prefers the setup at Tottenham and doesn't really want to go to a club where there is more pressure.
We have seen Pochettino's quality in development and progressive tactics. He helped these players develop into a top quality team. Now is the next step; you don't get an allowance just because you're at Tottenham. These players want to win things and believe in Pochettino to bring them this, but can he?
This could be a small window of opportunity for the players and managers. There is only so long people will want to win the moral trophies in the league. We have seen this with Atletico Madrid, who are not the force they were; they grabbed that opportunity when they were really good to make some memories, that's a huge credit to the players and manager there.
100% THIS
Football is short term game, the managers that win titles realize they have a good thing and get everything they can get out of it. This is why most managers only last a few years, and this is why SAF is the greatest manager of all time, he could recreate that good thing over and over.
It feels like Pochettino is in some sort of limbo. He's obviously no mug of a manager, but there's every possibility that he prefers the setup at Tottenham and doesn't really want to go to a club where there is more pressure.
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This Spurs havent been this Spurs for too long though, 1.5-2 yrs give or take? If they continue to win nothing with this quality in say 2 years time, I'd agree with what you're saying but its too soon now.
Im not getting drawn down the same old paths, im trying to keep it on topic.
Bullshit. It was only when we reached the SF, when we started sacrificing the league. Before that, there was no intention on Jose's part.
Spurs fans turning their nose over the Europa League is funny for a club which has won zero trophies. Sit down.
Actually one Spurs fan only, not all.
Well put. No one is taking away from his good work developing the players and team. He should be winning with this level of player though.
Agree. Atletico is a great comparison as well. That said I think their opportunity is gone. Unless the ambition is to match and takeover the Arsenal position of the last decade.
Yeah, all of this is a silly argument. Just like whichever poster stating that Spurs would definitely win the Europa, as they are beating stronger teams in the CL is a silly point. Just like the person stating categorically that Jose would win things with the Spurs team is dumb, in my opinion.
Therein lies the problem with football today in my opinion, or more exactly, with football fans. Everything needs to be immediate. Look at the player threads. Rashford, 20 years of age, has a couple of months of bad form, suddenly he's not good enough. Likewise Martial etc. People seem to think that every single player should play well in every single game. Likewise, United should never be beaten etc. There's a massive lack of perspective these days.
I think you're making a very good point here. I tried to make it in my previous post, how I'd like to see how he does over the next few years if things stay the same, but this is much more succinct.
There's no guarantee they can maintain as well. We all see how fluctuative the epl can be. You're a champion one season and a relegation contender the next.
Not saying spurs are gonna get relegated. But just like player manager has a good and a bad year that can swing either way. Probably this is poch 2 good years, it still remains to be seen if he can keep up the trajectory or at least maintain it.
Simeone was poch 5 years ago with a good number of posters wanted him, fast forward 5 years nobody mentioned him.
Zidane/keane/ole/koeman/de boer and many other managers was touted to be the next great manager once.
Trophies isnt everything but the ability to win and keep on winning even when jose changes club simply tells that his performance isn't down to luck (it could still be down to luck) but if you're winning all over europe chances are he's good enough. If you had a good 2-3 years you could have had a good storm and circumstantial.
If poch can maintain his form at spurs for a few more years I'm sure he'll be regarded more than potentially a good manager.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with there. Yes, it could go either way. The only point being made was that its too soon to say Poch should definitely have won something with this Spurs team because the team has been at this level for too short a time.
I'm not disagreeing. Just adding my 2cents.
Imho with a tight top 6 vying for top 4 too many factors would play into the equation.
Harry kane injury, lukaku mistakes against city, kane last minute goals, etc.
The margin of finishing 2nd and 4th is so slim it's hard to say indefinitely next year things are going to be the same.