A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Random Task]

Let’s just get this straight.

Despite PSG being arguably the best team in Europe, your opinion is that you were going to batter them on Tuesday but when you didn’t the posters who are concerned that Ole may not be the answer are fickle?

I say the same thing every week in the matchday thread regardless of the opposition. The majority of it is bravado or me simply havin' a laugh.

Imagine going through my posts looking for minor discrepancies to use against me. I'd be honoured if I didn't think it was really sad.

 

[Random Task]

There's also something to be said for the fact that Tuchel had all month to prepare a team and gameplan without Neymar and all week to prepare without Cavani. We lost 2 essential attacking pieces in-game at the same time! Not equivalent propositions, and Ole's adjustment would have been significantly more difficult and stressful.

Very true.

 

[JPRouve]

There's also something to be said for the fact that Tuchel had all month to prepare a team and gameplan without Neymar and all week to prepare without Cavani. We lost 2 essential attacking pieces in-game at the same time! Not equivalent propositions, and Ole's adjustment would have been significantly more difficult and stressful.

The fact that Tuchel is managing PSG since June is a lot more important, he has more knowledge about his own players and they have more than one system. At the end of the day, Ole has only been here 2 months without the luxury of adding players and therefore adjust the squad to his wishes. Pochettino is finishing his 5th season, he knows perfectly his players, they totally fit his requirements and they have been drilled for a long time.

 

[Amadaeus]

Proper management team? How do you calculate if a team is properly coached or not, statistically, in relevance to the high percentage cases where money reflects quality, in each case. You are so full of shit you don't even know it.

If you can’t tell without using any statistical analysis the difference between a poorly managed team like Mourinho this season and a properly managed team like City, then there is no helping you. What a weird question to ask. Even a five year old would be able to notice a properly management team based on the performance the players put on the pitch.

It is very easy. Spurs have low pressure environment, a lot of time to develop players. They use their good scouting network to get good deals for players with potential then use the time and the right manager for them to develop them and make the most of their squad. They make it work with that model and deserve credit for it. That doesn't mean other clubs who is not following that model and instead spend a lot more money have automatically better teams, because they spend more money. That is what you have been arguing for, you see that right? You won't admit it though.

How does Spurs have a low pressure environment when Pochettino has now transformed their club into a champion league team? If Spurs falter and have a poor season where they finish mid table or fight relegation, Pochetino will have to answer a lot of question. What Pochetino has done is change the landscape of Spurs footballing club and got some of their fans thinking they are a club big as United, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea, when before they were a battering team for the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea. Pochettino with his performance has now given himself much more pressure because with how well they are doing in all competitions, pundits and fans are now asking him to deliver on trophies. Which with such little investment makes it harder to do unless there is a tremendous amount of luck involved.

Spurs have a lot of good players, no matter how much they originally cost. Rashford is more important for United than Fred, no matter who is the manager. And the amount of money we paid for Fred will never have a say in that, only performances and player quality! This is just an easy example to disprove your logic. Money spent doesn't reflect player-quality. Take off your crazy-glasses mate.

Money spent doesn’t reflect a player quality is one of the most absurd thing I have heard. As stated before on more occasions it does. That is why the top teams in Europe are the ones spending big. How you can’t see something so simple is amazing.
How a manager develop these players and the players self motivation and ability have a lot to do with their performance. Rashford came from our academy and we didn’t have to spend much on him, but if he was at another club, we would have paid a lot to lure him here. Fred was scouted by a lot of top teams and he has not been given a consistent opportunity on the pitch. Just like how many people wrote of Sissoko, Fred is a player with a lot of talent and under a good manager that give him playing time his quality will be showcase. However, as I stated there are time when players market value don’t reflect their quality. Lazio was asking £100m for Slavic, but most club taught that was ridiculous and as such none decided to pursue him. But, my point stands that on most occasions, money spent on a player reflects their quality if they bought them for an extravagant amount.

 

[Zlatan 7]

@Amadaeus wern’t spurs in the champions league for a season or 2 before Poch took over?

 

[Amadaeus]

@Amadaeus wern’t spurs in the champions league for a season or 2 before Poch took over?

Only a few season but their average at the start of the century they were a mid table club finishing 8th. In the last 6 year before Poch took over their average were 6th. Whereas pochettino has made their average 3rd which is remarkable with the amount they have spent. Last time Spurs finished above 4th was in 1990, the time when most people on here were born.

 

[MikeKing]

@Amadaeus I showed you the colour green and asked if you can see it for what it is. The fact you deflect from the simplicity of that question and start talking about colouring-books, pencil shapes, gradients between blue and red and everything in between doesn't make you any less colourblind.

I'm usually a pretty open minded poster but you seem to want to discuss for the sake of discussing instead of coming to an understanding. Either that or you truly are delusional. I'm not going to sit here and just to be someone you can aim and argue irrelevant pro Spurs & Pochettino points at. So we're done.

 

[Amadaeus]

Better doesn't mean more important.

Kane and Alli are out for Spurs yet they can still call on a player like Son. Dortmund's injuries mean they had to play Gotze as a 9 and Pulisic who's in single digits in terms of starts in 2019

I don’t understand this revisionism going on here. Pulisic just went to Chelsea for £60m and Gotze was a top player and still is a very good player. When you look at statistics before their injuries, it will most likely show how most goals scored by Spurs, Kane and Ali contributed over 50%. These players are very important as without them, Spurs loses critical goal scorers. Spurs front line of Eriksen, Son and Moura is not much better than Gotze, Sancho and Pulsic. Heck, if United fans have to choose any of the players, it would be unanimously favored to Dortmund with Sancho coming first and Pulsic may be even with Eriksen and Son based of the amount of relevant data of interest towards these players. The front line was even and with a full strength team spurs missed out more so with Kane and Ali than Dortmund did with Paco and Reus.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I say the same thing every week in the matchday thread regardless of the opposition. The majority of it is bravado or me simply havin' a laugh.

Imagine going through my posts looking for minor discrepancies to use against me. I'd be honoured if I didn't think it was really sad.

Your get out clause is that you really didn’t mean it because it was said in the heat of the moment, eh, or ‘avin a laff?
Not minor discrepancies, 180 degree turns.

 

[crossy1686]

For them to be top 5 they would need to be better than at least 2 of the following;

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Manchester City, Juventus and Bayern Munchen.

Which of them are they superior to?

On current form Bayern and Juventus.

 

[Random Task]

On current form Bayern and Juventus.

Could probably include Real and Liverpool to that list. They are at the very least capable of giving them both a good game over 2 legs - PSG already did so against Liverpool this season.

 

[Random Task]

Your get out clause is that you really didn’t mean it because it was said in the heat of the moment, eh, or ‘avin a laff?
Not minor discrepancies, 180 degree turns.

You can believe whatever you like, lad, 'tis a fact.

You don't know me nearly well enough to make a judgement either way.

 

[Suedesi]

For them to be top 5 they would need to be better than at least 2 of the following;

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Manchester City, Juventus and Bayern Munchen.

Which of them are they superior to?

Liverpool for sure (weren't they in the same group?), and probably Bayern also.

 

[antohan]

Similarly Ole hasn't shown that he can develop and build a squad that consistently perform in the league, and also have improved in Europe every year under him while improving players and not spending.

It's difficult to compare the two because I have no idea what an Ole team would look like if he was given time.

True and, let's face it, that is the immediate job right now, not winning necessarily.

Ole pushes all the right buttons in terms of United Way, temperament, says all the right things... but assuming he will successfully rebuild us is a gamble you don't have to make with Pochettino.

Then if Pochettino somehow proves to be incapable of winning stuff you can always go back to Ole and give him a ready-made great side to push over the line. The philosophy side is consistent with both so no issues in terms of the erratic Moyes-LVG-Mou path that burns cash and leads you nowhere.

I.e. imagine if you were giving Ole the current Spurs side in their current league position and not the massive rebuild job we face. I'd love it.

The obvious and rational choice really is to get Pochettino if available.

 

[Zlatan 7]

True and, let's face it, that is the immediate job right now, not winning necessarily.

Ole pushes all the right buttons in terms of United Way, temperament, says all the right things... but assuming he will successfully rebuild us is a gamble you don't have to make with Pochettino.

Then if Pochettino somehow proves to be incapable of winning stuff you can always go back to Ole and give him a ready-made great side to push over the line. The philosophy side is consistent with both so no issues in terms of the erratic Moyes-LVG-Mou path that burns cash and leads you nowhere.

I.e. imagine if you were giving Ole the current Spurs side in their current league position and not the massive rebuild job we face. I'd love it.

The obvious and rational choice really is to get Pochettino if available.

I’d say it’s still a gamble with him. He hasn’t built spurs by buying ‘more expensive’ or the best players, he’s still not winning anything and is not expected to with the team he’s made. People just think he’s done well by getting top four and playing good football, which is fair enough.

He comes to United and instantly will have to work to build a team to win a league or a tournament. I don’t think he has done that.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

He played right wing loads for Barca

Vertonghen has played left back lots for us as well.

He's still not a natural left back, he's a natural centre back.

Dani Alves is a natural RB/RWB who is also capable of playing on the wing if he has to.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

As big a fan I'm of Pochettino(you can check my previous posts in this thread regarding him), his team was getting eliminated by a Belgian team in the Europa League.

Spurs are Poch's team and has been molded in his way. This isn't Ole's team. There's no comparison between the two so that's why Pochettino would've gotten more criticism.

He deserved criticism when we got eliminated by Genk/Gent (whatever). It was a shit result, I'd argue mostly down to complacency and us targeting the league, but still crap. I wouldn't say it's the same as getting swatted aside at home in a big CL game, but it was poor management.

It's Ole's team when he's winning though, but seems like suddenly it's not Ole's side now he's lost. Plenty on this site think he has a perfect team for counter attacking football and that you're good enough for a title challenge, but now a single match has been lost he lacks the tools and hasn't been here long enough? I think Ole's identity has been very clearly stamped on the side and you tried to play his way vs PSG, the problem was his way didn't work because of how they were set up tactically, and you didn't adjust for that .. so lost.

 

[Sandikan]

Pochettino has to be the 1st choice for me. Ole as DoF.

And what was your thinking before Tuesday?

 

[Zlatan 7]

He deserved criticism when we got eliminated by Genk/Gent (whatever). It was a shit result, I'd argue mostly down to complacency and us targeting the league, but still crap. I wouldn't say it's the same as getting swatted aside at home in a big CL game, but it was poor management.

It's Ole's team when he's winning though, but seems like suddenly it's not Ole's side now he's lost. Plenty on this site think he has a perfect team for counter attacking football and that you're good enough for a title challenge, but now a single match has been lost he lacks the tools and hasn't been here long enough? I think Ole's identity has been very clearly stamped on the side and you tried to play his way vs PSG, the problem was his way didn't work because of how they were set up tactically, and you didn't adjust for that .. so lost.

going out of a tournament is not as bad being ‘swatted aside’ 2-0 in a first leg. Ok.

The argument that he hasn’t got the tools has come because he lost his two counter attacking tools and had to replace them with players who appear to run through sand.

I’ve seen you mention what you thought of the first half but that has no baring on what happens in the second half, you should know that yourself after spurs match last night. Those injuries and lack of options is what cost us, something Ole has not been here long enough to change or be criticised for.

 

[Sterling Archer]

You're missing the point of the argument.

We have already established that Tuchel tactically outdid Ole (you would be aware of this had you followed the discussion from the beginning) we're now debating the impact of the replacements Tuchel and Ole had available.

Indeed I did jump in late.

I don't think this is as cut and dry as looking at the quality of the bench. It still relies heavily on the intent of the manager. Bringing on Sanchez and Mata didn't seem to change our shape any. And that tells of having really only prepared to play the match our way. Nothing wrong with that at this stage of the season given the circumstances. But it's the same kind of naivety that's kept United from winning more European cups over the years. I'm nothing but an amateur when it comes to assessing tactics but I'd gamble that putting Dalot and Lukaku on would have been more effective than the subs we made.

But what could he have done differently for that midfield? Yes we all know mata and Sanchez are slow as hell.

Who was there to sort that midfield out? Bring Fred on in midfield?

Ole may have been outdone tactically but what real options did he have to change it? To make that needed difference.

I don't really have an answer for that and I don't think Ole does either (not bc of his management ability but bc he's an interim manager come in barely 2 months ago ). My suggestion above maybe has an effect... going 451 with Pogba central behind Lukaku up top, Rashford and Dalot wide. Or maybe having Pogba drop even deeper behind Matic and Herrera and try pinging runners, more like we saw him play in the EL winning season.

Tuchel was better prepared as I'd expect any top coach to be that's managing a side for longer than a few months. Ole didn't have that luxury, and I think that affected us more than the specific subs available. We've really only got one effective game plan at present and I don't see that changing until the manager has more time, preseason and yes to agree also some improvements in the squad.

 

[Suedesi]

Vertonghen has played left back lots for us as well.

He's still not a natural left back, he's a natural centre back.

Dani Alves is a natural RB/RWB who is also capable of playing on the wing if he has to.

Dani Alves is not classic RB - if you've followed his career since the Sevilla days you'd know that.

 

[Suedesi]

He deserved criticism when we got eliminated by Genk/Gent (whatever). It was a shit result, I'd argue mostly down to complacency and us targeting the league, but still crap. I wouldn't say it's the same as getting swatted aside at home in a big CL game, but it was poor management.

It's Ole's team when he's winning though, but seems like suddenly it's not Ole's side now he's lost. Plenty on this site think he has a perfect team for counter attacking football and that you're good enough for a title challenge, but now a single match has been lost he lacks the tools and hasn't been here long enough? I think Ole's identity has been very clearly stamped on the side and you tried to play his way vs PSG, the problem was his way didn't work because of how they were set up tactically, and you didn't adjust for that .. so lost.

Yeah, Ole sucks - I guess we're going to have to pry Pochettino off of you then

 

[Canagel]

He deserved criticism when we got eliminated by Genk/Gent (whatever). It was a shit result, I'd argue mostly down to complacency and us targeting the league, but still crap. I wouldn't say it's the same as getting swatted aside at home in a big CL game, but it was poor management.

It's Ole's team when he's winning though, but seems like suddenly it's not Ole's side now he's lost. Plenty on this site think he has a perfect team for counter attacking football and that you're good enough for a title challenge, but now a single match has been lost he lacks the tools and hasn't been here long enough? I think Ole's identity has been very clearly stamped on the side and you tried to play his way vs PSG, the problem was his way didn't work because of how they were set up tactically, and you didn't adjust for that .. so lost.

Plenty of us expressed our concern with squad depth long time ago. The one game we dropped points in the league since he came was the one we rotated the front line and some fans even critised him for it . Our first 11 is capable of title challenge. We have showed title winning form with it. But injury or suspension leaves us in trouble as we can't play with same intensity in pressing or counter attack. The simpe reality is you can't demonstrate a tactical flexibility with just a starting 11 that's suited to your football. And the manager hasn't been here long enough to affect this.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

going out of a tournament is not as bad being ‘swatted aside’ 2-0 in a first leg. Ok.

The argument that he hasn’t got the tools has come because he lost his two counter attacking tools and had to replace them with players who appear to run through sand.

I’ve seen you mention what you thought of the first half but that has no baring on what happens in the second half, you should know that yourself after spurs match last night. Those injuries and lack of options is what cost us, something Ole has not been here long enough to change or be criticised for.

I'm assuming you're out tbh. No away goal, 2-0 to make up, no Pogba. I honestly hope I'm wrong because I hate PSG and everything they stand for, but sounds like a dead in the water tie to me.

I mean, it's possible in the second half if you had Lingard and Martial you go on and win, I'm just saying I don't think it's likely based on everything we saw. When Pochettino had injuries he had to 'deal with them' but when Ole has them and brings in Sanchez and Mata they're hopeless and couldn't possibly do anything? Surely you have to switch it up and try and rely less on pace?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Dani Alves is not classic RB - if you've followed his career since the Sevilla days you'd know that.

I know all about Alves but just because he's a right back with excellent ability going forward doesn't make him a right winger, just like it doesn't make Marcelo a left winger.

They're fullbacks with exceptional ability going forward who play on the front foot, but they're not natural wingers. It's a different role to play as an attacking fullback.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I don't really have an answer for that and I don't think Ole does either (not bc of his management ability but bc he's an interim manager come in barely 2 months ago ). My suggestion above maybe has an effect... going 451 with Pogba central behind Lukaku up top, Rashford and Dalot wide. Or maybe having Pogba drop even deeper behind Matic and Herrera and try pinging runners, more like we saw him play in the EL winning season.

Tuchel was better prepared as I'd expect any top coach to be that's managing a side for longer than a few months. Ole didn't have that luxury, and I think that affected us more than the specific subs available. We've really only got one effective game plan at present and I don't see that changing until the manager has more time, preseason and yes to agree also some improvements in the squad.

I agree with pretty much all that, Ole has been here for hardly five minutes, the great start has skewed expectations I think.

I think you’re right about the one game plan and it’s worked so far and it’s built morale and confidence so they’ve stuck to it.
Ole could have done something similar to what you suggested but he only had five minutes to get it across, they wouldn’t have had time to work in anything similar in training, it could have been a mess when trying to get it working on the field and we’d lose all shape and be a mess.

Ole may well have thought that and knew that putting mata and Sanchez on wasn’t a great option (I definitely think he thought that) but it was the lesser of evils in regards to options we had.

As much as everyone knows everything on here I haven’t really seen a sound and workable option Ole could have done instead.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Yeah, Ole sucks - I guess we're going to have to pry Pochettino off of you then

I think Ole is great, he's done a fantastic job thus far at United. I've made a very clear point of saying on multiple occasions that one poor result doesn't change the fact he's been very impressive thus far.

I just think that the PSG result is partly on him as a manager. He failed to adapt, his tactical plan was outdone, and he had little answer to it. The injuries didn't help but managers are paid to adapt to those situations and I do believe he got it wrong vs PSG. 1 shot on target is very, very poor at home.

We'll see how you do in the second leg.

 

[antohan]

I’d say it’s still a gamble with him. He hasn’t built spurs by buying ‘more expensive’ or the best players, he’s still not winning anything and is not expected to with the team he’s made. People just think he’s done well by getting top four and playing good football, which is fair enough.

He comes to United and instantly will have to work to build a team to win a league or a tournament. I don’t think he has done that.

Spurs are five points off the top with everything to play for. I don't get your point on him building Spurs with less expensive players, that's surely a good thing. I would happily swap Son for Alexis feckin' Sanchez.

Disagree on the bolded, you don't get instant success but build it. If your expectation is we will win the league next year you'll carry on being disappointed and disgruntled. We first need to be able to challenge consistently.

He deserved criticism when we got eliminated by Genk/Gent (whatever). It was a shit result, I'd argue mostly down to complacency and us targeting the league, but still crap. I wouldn't say it's the same as getting swatted aside at home in a big CL game, but it was poor management.

It's Ole's team when he's winning though, but seems like suddenly it's not Ole's side now he's lost. Plenty on this site think he has a perfect team for counter attacking football and that you're good enough for a title challenge, but now a single match has been lost he lacks the tools and hasn't been here long enough? I think Ole's identity has been very clearly stamped on the side and you tried to play his way vs PSG, the problem was his way didn't work because of how they were set up tactically, and you didn't adjust for that .. so lost.

Agree with your take on caf opinions but you are way off with that conclusion. If anyone told you we would lose both Martial and Lingard by HT everyone would have known full well we didn't have a chance in hell of recovering from that. PSG had zero shots on target in the first half. Zero.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Spurs are five points off the top with everything to play for. I don't get your point on him building Spurs with less expensive players, that's surely a good thing. I would happily swap Son for Alexis feckin' Sanchez.

Disagree on the bolded, you don't get instant success but build it. If your expectation is we will win the league next year you'll carry on being disappointed and disgruntled. We first need to be able to challenge consistently.
.

It was hard to get across what I meant, of course it’s better to build a challenging team with less money spent, at some point though we would need to pass that challenging point and get to a winning point, expecting to go deep into the champions league, expecting to finish first or second in the league every year. That would be the aim after building.

Poch has never done that so the gamble would still be there if we hired him. Yes he’s proven that he can build a good team on not much money and play good football finishing 3rd/4th and not winning anything else. I don’t think that’s what we would want from him after him being here five years though.

That’s what i originally tried to get across, that he’s still a gamble, all be it a conservative one.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Agree with your take on caf opinions but you are way off with that conclusion. If anyone told you we would lose both Martial and Lingard by HT everyone would have known full well we didn't have a chance in hell of recovering from that. PSG had zero shots on target in the first half. Zero.

How many did United have? One? PSG weren't threatening much in the first half but they looked close to getting in behind with Mbappe/Di Maria. They set up to frustrate your counter attack and it worked, I'm guessing away from home they were perfectly happy to take 1-0 off a set piece or a counter.

The injuries hurt your gameplan, but even before Lingard/Martial went off you weren't threatening at all in behind, not really. Second half with those injuries perhaps it was time to re-evaluate the game plan, try and get on the ball more often and play more patient buildup, if necessary take the 0-0 and hope for players back for the second leg.

I believe we spoke about Spurs injuries before and you said Poch having to use the likes of Lamela/Llorente isn't bad, but Ole can't cope for a half with Juan Mata and Alexis Sanchez?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

It was hard to get across what I meant, of course it’s better to build a challenging team with less money spent, at some point though we would need to pass that challenging point and get to a winning point, expecting to go deep into the champions league, expecting to finish first or second in the league every year. That would be the aim after building.

Poch has never done that so the gamble would still be there if we hired him. Yes he’s proven that he can build a good team on not much money and play good football finishing 3rd/4th and not winning anything else. I don’t think that what we would want from him after him being here five years though.

That’s what unoriginally tried to get across, that he’s still a gamble, all be it a conservative one.

Poch has never finished fourth.

5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd .. probably 3rd this season.

Sorry, bit pedantic it's just since the first season we've always been more likely to finish second than we are fourth.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Poch has never finished fourth.

5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd .. probably 3rd this season.

Sorry, bit pedantic it's just since the first season we've always been more likely to finish second than we are fourth.

Fair enough, I was going to write 3rd ish because I guessed around there somewhere but changed it last second.

 

[Litch]

If I put the emotion to one side, it's a no brainier. Poch ceiling is so much higher than Ole's and not winning anything is no shame in this era. For example, Liverpool might only lose one game this season and still not win the prem. I could see where the only team that's beaten them, is the team that's won it!!!!

 

[antohan]

It was hard to get across what I meant, of course it’s better to build a challenging team with less money spent, at some point though we would need to pass that challenging point and get to a winning point, expecting to go deep into the champions league, expecting to finish first or second in the league every year. That would be the aim after building.

Poch has never done that so the gamble would still be there if we hired him. Yes he’s proven that he can build a good team on not much money and play good football finishing 3rd/4th and not winning anything else. I don’t think that’s what we would want from him after him being here five years though.

That’s what i originally tried to get across, that he’s still a gamble, all be it a conservative one.

He isn't a gamble to get to where we need to get before that next step. We've gone through three managers woefully unable to deliver that. If in three years we are constantly third but despite more resources and a greater backing we are hitting the same brickwall then sure, get in someone else for that but they won't find a side used to just crossing the ball 479 times a game, or one passing the ball around aimlessly, or one setup to not concede against top teams. You won't have the problem that the previous manager wanted their left CB to be left footed while the new one wants him to be built like a brickwall.

I'm more confident in Ole picking up that side in 2-3 years and making it a winning side than I am on him building it, simply because he has no track record whatsoever of doing it.

Of course, regardless of managerial candidate, the elephant in the room in all this is the friggin' DoF and whether we are doing anything to get one in.

I believe we spoke about Spurs injuries before and you said Poch having to use the likes of Lamela/Llorente isn't bad, but Ole can't cope for a half with Juan Mata and Alexis Sanchez?

I stand by that, they may be poorer versions of the starters, but they slot in nicely without breaking your rhythm and style of play. Replacing Lingard with Mata and Martial with Sanchez is a fecking disaster. Nothing to do with individual quality differentials and everything to do with being completely different players.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I stand by that, they may be poorer versions of the starters, but they slot in nicely without breaking your rhythm and style of play. Replacing Lingard with Mata and Martial with Sanchez is a fecking disaster. Nothing to do with individual quality differentials and everything to do with being completely different players.

Llorente fecked up our rhythm and style of play completely. Bloke can't run and for the first couple of games back looked like he couldn't trap a ball let alone hold it up properly.

Lamela was a big problem too, he doesn't want to run in behind like Son did so we completely lost that presence. They certainly weren't 'like for like' changes.

I get where you're coming from though, and I do recognise that Mata/Sanchez don't fit in with the 'Ole' style, I just wonder whether with that in mind it was possible for United to shift the way they wanted to play.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

My mind has never been changed, Poch has United written all over him, and has for a while now.

We should go all out for him, and if he says no then Ole deserves a go next season for sure above anyone else, but I really hope we haven't made our mind up on the easy option already.

 

[Zlatan 7]

He isn't a gamble to get to where we need to get before that next step. We've gone through three managers woefully unable to deliver that. If in three years we are constantly third but despite more resources and a greater backing we are hitting the same brickwall then sure, get in someone else for that but they won't find a side used to just crossing the ball 479 times a game, or one passing the ball around aimlessly, or one setup to not concede against top teams. You won't have the problem that the previous manager wanted their left CB to be left footed while the new one wants him to be built like a brickwall.

I'm more confident in Ole picking up that side in 2-3 years and making it a winning side than I am on him building it, simply because he has no track record whatsoever of doing it.

Of course, regardless of managerial candidate, the elephant in the room in all this is the friggin' DoF and whether we are doing anything to get one in.



I stand by that, they may be poorer versions of the starters, but they slot in nicely without breaking your rhythm and style of play. Replacing Lingard with Mata and Martial with Sanchez is a fecking disaster. Nothing to do with individual quality differentials and everything to do with being completely different players.

All well said and I agree with it all to be honest.

I get that we need consistency and to be consistently in the top four and Poch ‘should’ provide that, Ole is most certainly more of a risk there.

I also like the thought of the unknown with Ole, someone with a history of United and a potential lightning quick swashbuckling team that could shock us all. I know that’s romatisicm and getting carried away with the last two months though.

At the moment I’d be happy with either after the post Fergie period we’ve had. I’m glad I haven’t got to make the decision.

And of course all this assuming Poch is available and would come.

 

[antohan]

Llorente fecked up our rhythm and style of play completely. Bloke can't run and for the first couple of games back looked like he couldn't trap a ball let alone hold it up properly.

Lamela was a big problem too, he doesn't want to run in behind like Son did so we completely lost that presence. They certainly weren't 'like for like' changes.

I get where you're coming from though, and I do recognise that Mata/Sanchez don't fit in with the 'Ole' style, I just wonder whether with that in mind it was possible for United to shift the way they wanted to play.

Llorente was rusty, but has been scoring unlike Lukaku who looks like a character out of the Nutty Professor.

I never saw Lamela as a Son sub, more an Alli sub.

I don't think we can blame Ole for not having some other way to play to shift to. He's been around two months and is conditioned by the squad he inherited. Once we are not putting pressure upfront the defensive frailties become only too obvious, we basically went back to playing like Mourinho's last games and got the same kind of result, unsurprisingly.

 

[Andycoleno9]

My mind has never been changed, Poch has United written all over him, and has for a while now.

We should go all out for him, and if he says no then Ole deserves a go next season for sure above anyone else, but I really hope we haven't made our mind up on the easy option already.

100% this. Ole is doing good but meanwhile Poch is doing great things. Without 2 best players he is winning game after game in PL. And in game against Dortmund he again showed why we should go all in for him. That was something what i call good match preparation.

I will be pissed when Ed decides( and he will) that Ole is staying

 

[antohan]

100% this. Ole is doing good but meanwhile Poch is doing great things. Without 2 best players he is winning game after game in PL. And in game against Dortmund he again showed why we should go all in for him. That was something what i call good match preparation.

I will be pissed when Ed decides( and he will) that Ole is staying

Don't. For all we know he may not want to come.