Yeah I would disagree but that's no slight on ince, he really was a fecking brilliant player.
A discussion about Paul Ince
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Yeah I would disagree but that's no slight on ince, he really was a fecking brilliant player.
Ince was a tremendous player for us.
But I cant get over him celebrating like a maniac in front of the Kop when he thought he'd ruined our treble run in May 1999.
After that Ince meant nothing to me. No interest. Nothing. Out of sight, out of mind.
But I cant get over him celebrating like a maniac in front of the Kop when he thought he'd ruined our treble run in May 1999.
After that Ince meant nothing to me. No interest. Nothing. Out of sight, out of mind.
Aye, not sure why there’s talk of Denis law, Cole etc. Dennis Law basically burst into tears when he scored against United. And city were tinpot when Cole went there.
Liverpool is a different animal, you don’t play for us and then go there period. And if you choose to do that well that’s the end of your United legacy. Michael Owen can attest to that too.
I think it was the combination of the going there and the ridiculously OTT celebration that really wrecked his reputation beyond redemption. He’s always come across as a bit of a cnut in any case.
He was the best midfielder in the league when he left
Ince, in my eyes, is a United legend. I don't know if that United team would have won the league in 92/93 without what he brought to the team starting in 89 as we transformed into the behemoth we became. He was dynamic, passionate, both offensive and defensive....... In short, a bona fide great.
Some impressive embraces with Liverpool fans
Exactly this.
Ince scored a goal and thought he'd denied us the title and the historic Treble and celebrated like a mad man, playing for Liverpool of all teams.
No fecking chance is he a legend. He ruined it.
Ince was a good player had a presence on the field, in some games I watched he made the difference, despite the other greats we had, but he committed the cardinal sin of joining Liverpool.... no coming back from that, not then, not now, ask Michael Owen who went the other way.
Its that simple really.
Its that simple really.
I remember him being the one player of the 1995 squad cull that everyone thought we were mad to let go. Hughes was older and Andy Cole had just been bought. Kanchelskis was a pain in the ass behind the scenes, but Ince was a pretty good midfielder for us and had a great partnership with Keane.
I don’t remember any issues with Ince, unless he was a pain in the ass behind the scenes too?
I don’t remember any issues with Ince, unless he was a pain in the ass behind the scenes too?
Fergie had the CO92 bursting through, hence why he cleared the decks. He also had keane who was growing as a player and leader.
ill add further to what I said earlier, great player.
But his celebrations, actions and the way he talked about United whilst at Liverpool showed he was an immature, bitter guy.
Steady on. Kanchelskis was a phenom in 1994/1995, and had become more important to us than Ince. Andrei leaving is the biggest disappointment I can remember at a departure, though his shady agent had admittedly made things untenable.
They were both high profile players and Utd could virtually get any player from the first division back then, as we were regarded in GB the same as a lot of players worldwide want to play for Madrid now.Top top player and I think Pallister joined at around the same time......how I miss the days of when we had good judgment when bringing in young players
I know joining Liverpool is the cardinal sin, but I am convinced he allowed that because of how Ferguson ruined his name, and effectively, his legacy as people parroting Big Time Charlie and him being this or that kind of cnut was something he would never have a voice even fair means to defend himself against.
I believe he became completely consumed by it and the way he was treated because of it. On a similar slant, it has taken Keane an absolute age to even get to the point where he is not in a red-eyed mist state when Fergie is mentioned to him, and to this day calls him ‘the manager’ or anything to avoid saying his name; even when he made his xi, he ‘jokingly’ put Ron Atkinson as the manager, obviously with the implication bringing much laughs with it.
For me, it’s a real shame such a parting shot was left. It didn’t have to happen, and without it, I doubt Ince ever goes to Liverpool because his name is then never sullied and made mud for some of our support.
I remember the Law back heel goal against us well - he reacted as if he'd scored an own goal. Legacy intact.......
Law didn’t score a last minute equaliser against United and dive into the Kop celebrating like a mad man because he thought it would stop United winning the league.
Hmmm, maybe, not sure myself. As good as he was, the question you have to ask is (given he was in his prime when he left); did we miss him?
That in some way is a fairly decent indicator of where to place him amongst the other central midfielders we had at the time.
His performance against Barca in the 2-2 draw at OT should be celebrated as one of the great individual performances of Fergie's time, he was absurdly good that night, up there with the best of Robson and Keane.
The Liverpool thing, residual reputation and a bit of a generational gap are the issues here. If you asked the younger fan to describe what type of player Ince was they would probably struggle, see him as a tackler. He was a box to box force, this is before pure DM's were a thing, midfielders had to be capable front to back. Ince was an excellent athlete, good spring, quick, agile and with fantastic stamina, his technical ability was good, touch, short passing, lovely striker of a ball off both feet. He was also a leader, strong character who relished the physical side of the game, occasionally he could be a bit tactically ill disciplined, or try to win balls when he would have better off holding (see the Everton Cup final in 95).
If England were picking a midfield from the best performing players, at international level, from the last 20-30 years he would have a strong case to be a starter.
The Liverpool thing, residual reputation and a bit of a generational gap are the issues here. If you asked the younger fan to describe what type of player Ince was they would probably struggle, see him as a tackler. He was a box to box force, this is before pure DM's were a thing, midfielders had to be capable front to back. Ince was an excellent athlete, good spring, quick, agile and with fantastic stamina, his technical ability was good, touch, short passing, lovely striker of a ball off both feet. He was also a leader, strong character who relished the physical side of the game, occasionally he could be a bit tactically ill disciplined, or try to win balls when he would have better off holding (see the Everton Cup final in 95).
If England were picking a midfield from the best performing players, at international level, from the last 20-30 years he would have a strong case to be a starter.
Ferguson later admitted he was wrong to call him a big time Charlie and said Ince was quality for us. That was such an awesome midfield with Giggs, Ince, Keane and Kanchelskis. Ince was skillfull along with his aggression and ball-winning too and could thread a decent pass. I remember him scoring an overhead kick too.
People forget it took a while for Scholes to break through into the first team and was still largely playing as a forward til the end of of the 90s - it was more Butt replacing him in midfield from memory.
Ferguson: my regrets over Ince feud
'Big-time Charlie' slight was wrong says United manager as pair prepare to meet as equals
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/oct/04/premierleague.blackburn
Agreed. Will never forgive him for that and a lot of other United fans feel the same way. He will never be welcomed back because of it.
Well Fergie obviously timed it perfectly as Roy kicked on almost immediately but Ince ran the midfield when they were together
Class player at the time but talks so much shit.
Easily forgot about with his liverpool antics, but he was a top top player at the time
Easily forgot about with his liverpool antics, but he was a top top player at the time
I think he scored 2 overhead kicks for us. 1 away to QPR and another v Blackburn in the Charity Shield.
Ince getting sold was a massive shock at the time.
Kanchelskis was class but there was murmuring for months about him. Ince was a massive player for us and a bigger shock when he left, for me anyway.
Also Ince has to be the worst pundit in football history. Talks a million miles per hour with a shaky stuttery voice. Awkward viewing guaranteed.
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Very good player - not as good as Robson or Keane though so in comparison to the players he overlapped with we probably we did the right thing in selling him at the time (seems strange to say this but £7.5m was a massive fee at the time and with Beckham, Butt and Scholes coming through it made sense
I don't really care that he played for Liverpool.
Unless a player came through the academy as a life long fan or something, it's not exactly a shock when they will consider signing for a rival of a team they used to play for
Unless a player came through the academy as a life long fan or something, it's not exactly a shock when they will consider signing for a rival of a team they used to play for
But the damage was done, and I really believe it devastated Ince, as he was prepared to run through brick walls for Fergie and the cause. A hurt that deep is going to cause the most severe retribution.
It’s pleasing to hear Fergie hold his hand up; the whole sorry far could have been avoided.
Exactly, to your bolded. Butt mostly came in for Ince.
He made his debut like 33 years ago, fans have gotten children who since then got children themselves. He played in an era when the level in the league was way lower and unprofessional compared to this day and age. Dare I say Paul Ince is completely and utterly irrelevant in 2022, both as a former player and pundit/manager/person? He was hardly a Charlton, Robson or Cantona in our grand history, he’s far down the list of important players if we summarize the last 40 years. He talked the club down, played for Liverpool and played the racist-card without grounds since he was here, doesn’t even deserve free entry to Old Trafford in my book.
Loved Ince when he played for United, was an excellent player. He brought the best out in Gazza for England too and allowed himto play. Soured it all though when he joined Liverpool., no going back from that for me.
It's somewhat of a shock considering only two players in the last 60 years played for both Liverpool and United in their careers. Peter Beardsley was a United youth team player but was sent packing before turning pro.
Ince did not only did he play for Liverpool, but he celebrated wildly when he scored against United. There was no going back after that, he was dead to United fans
Denis Law was a City player long before he signed for us.
This, and his ill feeling was clearly at Fergie rather than the club. He loved us, hence being so upset when we accepted Inter's offer.
First name I ever got on the back of a jersey (the black away one from 93/94).
A midfield trio of Ince, Keane and a more mature Scholes would be something else.
Ferguson wrote that during 94/95 Ince began to see himself as a more attacking midfielder, whereas Fergie saw him as the finest defensive midfielder in the league. Fergie claimed Ince started ignoring instructions and ultimately blamed him for Rideout’s
A midfield trio of Ince, Keane and a more mature Scholes would be something else.
Ferguson wrote that during 94/95 Ince began to see himself as a more attacking midfielder, whereas Fergie saw him as the finest defensive midfielder in the league. Fergie claimed Ince started ignoring instructions and ultimately blamed him for Rideout’s
I’ve got no particular beef with Ince - he seems a bit of a plonker but there’s no denying he was a key member of the first great Fergie team and a very good player.
But, for my money, there is simply no metric where he even comes close to Roy Keane as a player. It genuinely astounds me that it can even be a discussion, nevermind some claiming Ince was the better player.
But, for my money, there is simply no metric where he even comes close to Roy Keane as a player. It genuinely astounds me that it can even be a discussion, nevermind some claiming Ince was the better player.
Fergie talked about him fancieng himself as a attacking midfielder believing himself to be something he wasn't and I think that describes him well.
He was a neat player but overall no value was lost when he left.
He was a neat player but overall no value was lost when he left.
Could you explain this?
As a fan when I see ex players celebrating it grates. Moreso if the opposition is a Liverpool/City/arsenal once upon a time and Chelsea.
However as a person if I felt sleighted after giving a lot to a club and had genuine love for that club I reckon I would do an Adebayor tbh.
We tend to be loyal to our clubs and easily side with the club. On closer inspection and without bias I think likes of Tevez and Keane and Ince have a case to gripe.
However as a person if I felt sleighted after giving a lot to a club and had genuine love for that club I reckon I would do an Adebayor tbh.
We tend to be loyal to our clubs and easily side with the club. On closer inspection and without bias I think likes of Tevez and Keane and Ince have a case to gripe.
I was too young to appreciate him really but he was phenomenal when watching some old matches; so aggressive, technically fantastic, and such a powerful player. I remember reading how SAF thought that he completely gave up on his positional play after awhile though and started to leave gaps in the midfield constantly and how he let Steve Mcmanaman run riot in one defeat vs Liverpool. Also had a god awful FA cup final against Everton. Keane by contrast completely shutdown Mcmanaman in the FA cup final the following year.
I would love to have seen a battle between prime Ince and Keane vs Vieira and Petit...the clash of the titans Butt was a very good player but not quite at the same level and Scholes was a bit too lightweight at that time.
I would love to have seen a battle between prime Ince and Keane vs Vieira and Petit...the clash of the titans
Butt was a very good player but not quite at the same level and Scholes was a bit too lightweight at that time.It's somewhat of a shock considering only two players in the last 60 years played for both Liverpool and United in their careers. Peter Beardsley was a United youth team player but was sent packing before turning pro.
Ince did not only did he play for Liverpool, but he celebrated wildly when he scored against United. There was no going back after that, he was dead to United fans
No he wasn't. He was 20/21 when he joined us on a six-month loan from Vancouver Whitecaps in Canada.
Atkinson had Stapleton up front and then Whiteside and Hughes made surprising steps ups into the first team and Beardsley couldn't get a place in the team. When his loan was over he went back to Vancouver.
So whilst he did play for both United and Liverpool he was never on United's books or even have time to become a fans favourite as he only played one game, a League Cup tie.
The slight came from Fergie, not the club itself or its fanbase where he was well regarded. He chose to celebrate his goal for Liverpool in front of the United fans, openly mocking them by holding a cupped hand to his ear.
Oh, I see.
I should probably take you at your word on that considering you're a Man Utd youth historian, whereas I am... not.