Morata is basically Jose's Milito.
#9 The Priority For Jose
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
Seriously I'm a little worried. I hope Jose and Woodward have something up their sleeve.
The window doesn't open for two days.
Not sure what you're point really is.
There doesn't SEEM to be many no9s available so I'm a little worried and hope Jose and Woodward have something up their sleeve.
The date the window opens is pretty irrelevant.
Cavani signing a new contract with PSG was an unfortunate development from United's perspective, IMO. Given the paucity of good striker options (in, or close to their peak productivity years) in the market, he would have been an exceptional Bosman acquisition in 2018 (considering that someone like Higuaín - who's at a comparable level, went €90 million). Cavani works hard, has a clean fitness record with only 12 games missed since 2011 because of injury related issues, scored 49 goals in 50 games (including 1 GPG in the Champions League), is technically decent with good physicality, and quite seasoned at this stage of his career - kind of the ideal Mourinho striker. You could then hold off on another striker transfer for a couple years, or maybe sign someone like Dolberg (more complete than Belotti) or Silva (comparable to Morata in terms of skillset) and loan them out (or back to Ajax/Porto) for experience, or employ a wait and observe approach with our own Rashford - who would be 22/23 when Cavani's 34 - so you'd have a better idea of his standing as a long term #9. Mourinho looks for specific traits in his striker, and there aren't a lot of good options in a market that's already shallow in terms of realistic quality.
Just that I wouldn't be worried about lack of movement yet whilst the window remains closed. There isn't much quality about, but we could easily end up with someone like Icardi/Morata/Belotti. We just won't know anything about what's happening behind the scenes, and the date of the window is relevant to that, as we only get genuine reports as deals are close to being finalised, or contact is seriously made.
Maybe a bit of a stretch but has anyone linked us with Vardy yet?
If we can't get the first choices would he do the job for a season?
If we can't get the first choices would he do the job for a season?
I said nothing about lack of movement. Also with regards to not knowing whats happening behind the scenes (I hope Jose and Woodward have something up their sleeve)
The point I'm making is that we have no idea who'll be available and who won't until the window opens proper and movement starts. I also hope they have something up their collective sleeves.
This article probably belong here
To rebuild Man Utd's attack, Mourinho must focus on ability, not position
It's funny how quickly things change in football. One moment Antoine Griezmann was specifically rating his chances of joining Manchester United, the next the transfer seemed off entirely, thanks to the upholding of a transfer ban that means Atletico Madrid wouldn't be able to sign a replacement for their best player.
United quickly reacted by briefing that they were instead looking for a No. 9, rather than a deeper or wider forward like Griezmann. Beyond that sounding suspiciously like sour grapes after they were unable to get their main target, it does make some degree of sense given the uncertainty over the future of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
But the problem with acquiring a direct replacement is that United would play in exactly the same way. Ibrahimovic scored 28 goals in all competitions but United's overall Premier League tally of 55 -- one fewer than Bournemouth -- was dreadful and showed far too much reliance on their leading scorer.
Given how other forwards failed to shine, bringing someone in specifically to play Ibrahimovic's role would be counter-productive. In that respect, it might make more sense for United to restructure their attack completely, even if that means incorporating a different type of player.
For example, if United were to acquire Griezmann -- things change quickly, remember, so we can't be sure the deal is entirely dead -- they could deploy him as a second striker just off Marcus Rashford, or wide in a three-man attack.
That would improve their side significantly more than upgrading on Rashford with a No. 9, who might not be genuinely top-class. Romelu Lukaku seems to be the obvious choice if United do sign such a player but, while he's banged in the goals for Everton and West Brom, there are question marks about his all-round game and suitability to play for the biggest clubs.
United have versatile players, with Ander Herrera, Paul Pogba, Juan Mata and Henrikh Mkhitaryan -- the type around whom Jose Mourinho should be building -- all able to play multiple roles. Rashford and Anthony Martial, meanwhile, can both play upfront as well as in a wide position.
Despite winning two cup competitions in 2016-17, there was hardly a defined, cohesive and successful attacking style of play you'd be reluctant to disturb. The defensive shape of the side was largely excellent, as it was under Louis van Gaal. But going forward? You'd be tempted to rip it up and start again.
Building an attack is different to building a defence. At the back, you need to plug your biggest hole; if you've got a problem at left-back, there's no problem improving on the other side and hoping this will improve the backline as a whole, because opponents will target your vulnerabilities. Defending is inherently reactive, defined more by your weakest link than your strongest.
Up front, however, you define yourself and can play to the strengths of your strongest link; therefore, it's more about getting the best attacker you can find. That doesn't mean you should completely ignore glaring problems and leave yourself with a surplus at one particular position. But with adaptable young players, the best approach is simply to sign the best player you can.
Therefore, United shouldn't be overwhelmingly concerned with the different roles played by the names with whom they have been linked, which include Griezmann, Lukaku, Lyon's Alexandre Lacazette and Alvaro Morata of Real Madrid.
The amount of money they'll be spending suggests they'll be building for the long-term and that this player is a key part of their plans. Given that, they should simply focus upon acquiring the best available, and the rest might simply fall into place.
United have had a mixed experience with proper No. 9s over the years. Ruud van Nistelrooy boasts the best goals-per-game ratio of any of Old Trafford player in the Premier League era, but his five years in England coincided with the club's worst league run since Sir Alex Ferguson began winning titles in 1993.
Van Nistelrooy's departure saw Cristiano Ronaldo become United's main man and he developed into the best player in Europe. Meanwhile, after people initially said that playing Carlos Tevez and Wayne Rooney together wouldn't work because they were too similar, the young, versatile trio figured things out themselves, dovetailed and rotated.
There's no reason a similar thing couldn't happen with a front four of Griezmann, Martial and Rashford, or a quartet that also featured Mkhitaryan. Mourinho has generally played with a proper No. 9, but he would surely consider a different system with a top-class, deeper forward.
It's also worth remembering that, when United signed their most transformative forward of the Premier League era, Eric Cantona in 1992, Ferguson had been completely open-minded about what type of player he was after.
As well as Cantona and another deep-lying forward, Peter Beardsley, more advanced types on his radar included David Hirst and even Brian Deane, a proper target man. Mark Hughes wasn't a prolific goalscorer, so Ferguson considered signing a No. 9 to play alongside him.
Ultimately, though, Ferguson simply went for the best player: Cantona. 25 years on, United are in a similar situation and, be it a No. 9, No. 10 or a wide forward, Mourinho's squad simply needs raw quality. Talent, rather than a specific type, must be the main consideration.
http://www.espnfc.com.au/english-pr...lable-as-he-rebuilds-manchester-united-attack
To rebuild Man Utd's attack, Mourinho must focus on ability, not position
It's funny how quickly things change in football. One moment Antoine Griezmann was specifically rating his chances of joining Manchester United, the next the transfer seemed off entirely, thanks to the upholding of a transfer ban that means Atletico Madrid wouldn't be able to sign a replacement for their best player.
United quickly reacted by briefing that they were instead looking for a No. 9, rather than a deeper or wider forward like Griezmann. Beyond that sounding suspiciously like sour grapes after they were unable to get their main target, it does make some degree of sense given the uncertainty over the future of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
But the problem with acquiring a direct replacement is that United would play in exactly the same way. Ibrahimovic scored 28 goals in all competitions but United's overall Premier League tally of 55 -- one fewer than Bournemouth -- was dreadful and showed far too much reliance on their leading scorer.
Given how other forwards failed to shine, bringing someone in specifically to play Ibrahimovic's role would be counter-productive. In that respect, it might make more sense for United to restructure their attack completely, even if that means incorporating a different type of player.
For example, if United were to acquire Griezmann -- things change quickly, remember, so we can't be sure the deal is entirely dead -- they could deploy him as a second striker just off Marcus Rashford, or wide in a three-man attack.
That would improve their side significantly more than upgrading on Rashford with a No. 9, who might not be genuinely top-class. Romelu Lukaku seems to be the obvious choice if United do sign such a player but, while he's banged in the goals for Everton and West Brom, there are question marks about his all-round game and suitability to play for the biggest clubs.
United have versatile players, with Ander Herrera, Paul Pogba, Juan Mata and Henrikh Mkhitaryan -- the type around whom Jose Mourinho should be building -- all able to play multiple roles. Rashford and Anthony Martial, meanwhile, can both play upfront as well as in a wide position.
Despite winning two cup competitions in 2016-17, there was hardly a defined, cohesive and successful attacking style of play you'd be reluctant to disturb. The defensive shape of the side was largely excellent, as it was under Louis van Gaal. But going forward? You'd be tempted to rip it up and start again.
Building an attack is different to building a defence. At the back, you need to plug your biggest hole; if you've got a problem at left-back, there's no problem improving on the other side and hoping this will improve the backline as a whole, because opponents will target your vulnerabilities. Defending is inherently reactive, defined more by your weakest link than your strongest.
Up front, however, you define yourself and can play to the strengths of your strongest link; therefore, it's more about getting the best attacker you can find. That doesn't mean you should completely ignore glaring problems and leave yourself with a surplus at one particular position. But with adaptable young players, the best approach is simply to sign the best player you can.
Therefore, United shouldn't be overwhelmingly concerned with the different roles played by the names with whom they have been linked, which include Griezmann, Lukaku, Lyon's Alexandre Lacazette and Alvaro Morata of Real Madrid.
The amount of money they'll be spending suggests they'll be building for the long-term and that this player is a key part of their plans. Given that, they should simply focus upon acquiring the best available, and the rest might simply fall into place.
United have had a mixed experience with proper No. 9s over the years. Ruud van Nistelrooy boasts the best goals-per-game ratio of any of Old Trafford player in the Premier League era, but his five years in England coincided with the club's worst league run since Sir Alex Ferguson began winning titles in 1993.
Van Nistelrooy's departure saw Cristiano Ronaldo become United's main man and he developed into the best player in Europe. Meanwhile, after people initially said that playing Carlos Tevez and Wayne Rooney together wouldn't work because they were too similar, the young, versatile trio figured things out themselves, dovetailed and rotated.
There's no reason a similar thing couldn't happen with a front four of Griezmann, Martial and Rashford, or a quartet that also featured Mkhitaryan. Mourinho has generally played with a proper No. 9, but he would surely consider a different system with a top-class, deeper forward.
It's also worth remembering that, when United signed their most transformative forward of the Premier League era, Eric Cantona in 1992, Ferguson had been completely open-minded about what type of player he was after.
As well as Cantona and another deep-lying forward, Peter Beardsley, more advanced types on his radar included David Hirst and even Brian Deane, a proper target man. Mark Hughes wasn't a prolific goalscorer, so Ferguson considered signing a No. 9 to play alongside him.
Ultimately, though, Ferguson simply went for the best player: Cantona. 25 years on, United are in a similar situation and, be it a No. 9, No. 10 or a wide forward, Mourinho's squad simply needs raw quality. Talent, rather than a specific type, must be the main consideration.
http://www.espnfc.com.au/english-pr...lable-as-he-rebuilds-manchester-united-attack
They sure have....elbows....fellaini.
With the prices being thrown around for number 9s right now, I really hope we don't go for any of them. Spend that money instead on decent wingers/full backs who can cross a ball. We have Rashford and Martial who can play up top, and with a decent run in the team with some actual service from out wide I'm sure they'l bang in a decent number of goals. So often we get the ball into the final third without delivering a decent ball into the box, and this can be addressed. I don't see how Mbappe, Morata or anyone else would be €60-90m better than Martial.
Serie A is by no means poor and I'd say it's much closer to Premier League than Premier League is to Ligue 1 (in terms of general level, not exactly type of play). And Belotti player for a rather mediocre side. In my eyes he's one of the best Italian talents in quite a few years. I don't follow Serie A as closely as Premier League, but from what I saw Belotti really has potential to become one of the most complete strikers in Europe and he's very much Mourinho type of a player.
1. Morata/Belotti (this would define the way we would play for another few seasons, but I think both could do the job)
2. Lukaku
3. Lacazette
By far the best publicly available striker.
While I agree with you regarding the need for more width and getting good quality balls into the box.. i really don't see either Rashford nor Martial as being dominant enough to make use of them.. That's why I think we need another CF option. Not sure who though.
And, strange at it may seem, turns out to be the cheapest too.
This whole striker situation is a bit frustrating and underwhelming. Apart from a few other unobtainable #9s, Harry Kane would be the only one who would truly excite me. But I guess he's impossible to get, no matter what sort of wages we tempt him with. I have a feeling that under SAF, we would have broken the bank for him a couple of years ago.
Like that ESPN article which @RedMachine03 quoted says, perhaps we need to sign pure quality for a front three rather than a 9, 1-2 great wide forwards/wingers, and let them provide service to Rashford and Martial in the middle.
Dembele anyone?
Like that ESPN article which @RedMachine03 quoted says, perhaps we need to sign pure quality for a front three rather than a 9, 1-2 great wide forwards/wingers, and let them provide service to Rashford and Martial in the middle.
Dembele anyone?
If we don't want to overpay then Lacazette or Cavani are the best options. Also i would not be unhappy with Dzeko either. Played well for Roma this season and always plays as a lone striker.
Morata are worse than those mentioned above, also a far higher price. His technique and first touch is not great(reminds me vaguely of someone?).
If we are going to pay top price 70/80£ then why not add a little more and get Lewa or Dybala?
Also we do need to strengthen other parts of the team, and i am not sure Morata will strengthen the attack that much or at all.
Morata are worse than those mentioned above, also a far higher price. His technique and first touch is not great(reminds me vaguely of someone?).
If we are going to pay top price 70/80£ then why not add a little more and get Lewa or Dybala?
Also we do need to strengthen other parts of the team, and i am not sure Morata will strengthen the attack that much or at all.
Opening day of transfer window is irrelevant, as a few people mentioned it already. The only significance of the opening day is that you can start registering players. Agreeing deals could be made far in advance. Players agreeing deals to leave on free and join a new club usually happens in Jan/Feb/March. There have been at least 30-40 deals already done, even if we are only in the first week of June.
Our squad is very thin on quality and that needs to be addressed asap. Why bid 60 on Morata when you can get Auba for 70? It kind of feels it will be a very disappointing summer and our squad won't improve.
I mean ... we'll surely get some new players, but I really doubt they will be better than the likes of Lingard, Fellaini and Blind. I doubt we'll be able to go past the round of 16 in Champions League and I am sure we will struggle to get into top 4, again.
Our squad is very thin on quality and that needs to be addressed asap. Why bid 60 on Morata when you can get Auba for 70? It kind of feels it will be a very disappointing summer and our squad won't improve.
I mean ... we'll surely get some new players, but I really doubt they will be better than the likes of Lingard, Fellaini and Blind. I doubt we'll be able to go past the round of 16 in Champions League and I am sure we will struggle to get into top 4, again.
Aubameyang and Dembele .. Worth breaking the bank for?
I've just watched a youtube vid of Aubameyang's goals for this last season and them two make an awesome duo.
I've just watched a youtube vid of Aubameyang's goals for this last season and them two make an awesome duo.
You have the cash, and that's it ... because Kane already has CL football at Spurs and already has a head-turning manager.
There are a dozen compelling reasons why Kane will not be sold to United, but the strongest two of all are a) that Pochettino would likely resign if Kane were sold (and Levy won't have that); and (b) that Kane is iconic to Spurs and thus key to the commercial circumstances surrounding the new stadium project (naming rights etc etc).
Even if you offered £150m or more it wouldn't compensate Spurs for the loss of Kane, Pochettino and a huge chunk of future sponsorship cash.
Agreed.. We really need to look elsewhere unfortunately..
Only his sense of loyalty to Spurs would keep him there. I'm sure if Spurs were willing to sell he'd switch to United, very few players turn down the chance to move to a bigger club even if they've finished a few places below you for a couple of seasons.
I think you're overestimating his commercial value too, he's not the most marketable player.
Yeah, not sure why his name keeps coming up. In a few years, who knows but I imagine he's happy where he is right now. They really need to win something soon though, or I am sure heads will start to turn.
What I meant by the CL football is that Spurs don't have that over us, like it looked like they might with a few games to go in the league.
Pochettino is a very good manager, but he's no Jose. I mean, it's not even close.
I'm not saying I think we'll get him, but I'm saying we should try. Obviously, as a Spurs fan you don't think Levy would let him go and you don't think Kane would want to leave and you may well be right. All I'm saying is, I think United could turn his head. We're clearly a much bigger club and while you have the more complete team at the moment, with Kane and a couple of more big signings this summer, it's easy to see how we could pass you. All I'm saying is, if we have the ambition, Kane is a player that could improve us massively and I'd like to see us make a move for.
This is the most important factor. Once the player decides he wants to leave, there's nothing much the club can do than to cash in. But I can see why he would rather stay at Spurs at the moment. No team in the PL is clearly better than them. None of them have a real chance at winning CL either. So apart from the salary bump, he won't gain anything else by a move to some other EPL team. But if teams like Real or Barca come knocking, he'll jump at the chance.
Hes a spurs fan and they are currently finishing ahead of us. Theres no real incentive to leave for him.
We are talking for complete footballers who can score and pass the ball. Mature footballers, but still young, who can make the right decisions.
So, I believe there is only one serious choice out there, Kane.
The price for Kane is too high - or too good to be true? Well, Kane is Kane. A goal machine, the best in EPL. Hefty price tag, but with many years in front of him. Why not 80m pounds? And why not 95m pounds?
Just buy the fecker and feed him balls*.
*ok, he is a little bit of a sissy and can't carry a big team on his own (see England - euro 2016), but feed him balls and he will make the ... job
So, I believe there is only one serious choice out there, Kane.
The price for Kane is too high - or too good to be true? Well, Kane is Kane. A goal machine, the best in EPL. Hefty price tag, but with many years in front of him. Why not 80m pounds? And why not 95m pounds?
Just buy the fecker and feed him balls*.
*ok, he is a little bit of a sissy and can't carry a big team on his own (see England - euro 2016), but feed him balls and he will make the ... job
Hes not a barca player. Maybe real. Bayern certainly but theyd never pay that much for a player.
I dont think youre really getting it. Its like spurs trying to sign giggs, we'd think they were taking the piss.. Nobody at spurs end wants it to happen, including the player. Its not a 'throw more money at it' situation.
I don't see either of Barca or Real being interested in him. Just mentioning that those are the clubs that can turn his head. The other EPL teams are not that much better than Spurs at the moment.
Yeah, itd be a pointless sideways move.
What am I not getting?
Nobody knows what the player really wants except the player himself. He may well want to stay at Spurs. But if the right offer came in, he may not.
It's not like Spurs trying to sign Giggs. Not in the slightest. United are one of the biggest clubs in the world.
If there was interest from us and Kane said "No, United are no better than Spurs at the moment", then fine, we've tried.
All I'm saying is, I think the right offer could turn his head. If United signed Fabinho and Nainggolan for instance and looked to be assembling a title challenging squad, can we all be sure that Kane wouldn't want a chance to be part of a Jose team challenging for both the title and Champions League.
I heard rumours he could be moving to Napoli. He wasn't happy being second fiddle to Zlatan, gets a monster season (Golden Foot contender had it not been for Ligue 1's multiple) and off they go to sign Aubameyang...
I think it's a very realistic possibility tbh.
Spurs are in at least as good a position to challenge for the league and champions league as us at present and theyre his team, he came through their youth system. We may be richer but thats comparative since the new tv deal has made spurs very wealthy as well. Plus theyre building a new state of the art stadium (which imo looks like a toilet seat). Its one of the best times to be at spurs in their history whereas its one of least attractive times to be here in the last 40 years since several sides, including spurs, have overtaken us.
Agreed. I don't think I've ever argued to the contrary. Except for the least attractive time to be at United in 40 years part. I'll give you 25 years, at a push.
Again, for the third or fourth time, Kane may not be attainable. He may not fancy United over Spurs, regardless of money and Levy may not be willing to part with him for what we'd be willing to offer. But very few players are unattainable. We bid for Neymar the summer before last for christ's sake (or last Summer? I can't remember).
I just wish we'd test the water. See if it's possible. If it's not, move on, but he's a phenomenal player, young, English and has been doing it in the Premier League. He's exactly the player, the United of old would have looked for.
Hes a fantastic player i agree but our worst transfer window in my memory was under moyes when he dithered on targets like fabregas when he wasnt getting a genuine bite rather than just moving on and getting a player in. We ended up with fellaini, who personally ive nothing against but it was an obvious panic buy and a rather less than obvious fabregas alternative. Spending time trying to get kane when it wont happen could be equally damaging.
I would hope that we could negotiate more than one transfer at a time. And if there was even a 1% chance of us signing him, I'd hope we'd explore all avenues.
Anyway, I agree it's an unrealistic transfer, but I do wish we'd have a go. We may not have had the best few years of late. But we're still Manchester United.
I see Vardy as the stronger Cicharito. He's fast, can finish with both feet, good header, and strong. And he may come with 'affordable' price.
I don't like any of the available striker options. They all seems to be forced for us to take it, just because we scarcely need a striker; not because we truly want the player. The like of Morata, Lukaku, etc.
The only one that I want at United is Kane. He's young, proven, deadly, and won't mind playing in the cold night at Stoke for the rest of his career. If he's not available, then I think United should wait until the right one comes, and focus on other attacking area.
Bayern's Heynkes had Mandzukic when they were labeled as the best team in the world. Portugal had Eder when they won the Euro. So was Spain with crooked Torres playing up-front the last time they won Euro. So good striker is important, but we shouldn't too focus on that, and end up overpaid
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No way is he gonna be a United player.