I'd say Davids, Keane and Vieira (in that order) were the three best all-round midfielders of their generation. Ballack was sensational in 2001/02 so I'd have little concern about him and Keane being able to dominate in a 4-4-2.
70s Retro Football Fantasy Championship - DRAFT THREAD
- Thread starter Cal?
- Start date
I'd say Davids, Keane and Vieira (in that order) were the three best all-round midfielders of their generation. Ballack was sensational in 2001/02 so I'd have little concern about him and Keane being able to dominate in a 4-4-2.
I'd have no problems with a Keane - Ballack midfield. Unfortunately, I don't think people value an old fashioned 4-4-2 anymore though.
Forgot all about Davids embarrassingly. How do you rate the 4-4-2, I just posted Gio?
People now a days have a problem with 4-4-2, because complete midfielders like Keano, Vieira, Davids, Ballack have almost became non-existent. Midfielders like them could outfight and outplay the other team.
I'd agree that it's got to be his best option. Maybe move Wiltord slightly forward, but the earlier formations proposed were awfully unbalanced.
I can't see beyond Antohan for this
do we have an agreement about what happens in the event of a draw?
should sort it out before it gets to that stage this time
I did like idea of picking 5 penalty takers and having a revote - the problem with that is that it could also end up in a draw
of the other suggestions that were made, I liked:
- make each manager predict results/scores from the weekend matches
- get 1 (or 3?) modmins to cast their votes as deciders
should sort it out before it gets to that stage this time
I did like idea of picking 5 penalty takers and having a revote - the problem with that is that it could also end up in a draw
of the other suggestions that were made, I liked:
- make each manager predict results/scores from the weekend matches
- get 1 (or 3?) modmins to cast their votes as deciders
The only one that guarantees an outcome and is fair is
- get 3 modmins to cast their votes as deciders
Simple, quick, effective and based on the teams presented, not a random factor.
Anyone disagree?
- get 3 modmins to cast their votes as deciders
Simple, quick, effective and based on the teams presented, not a random factor.
Anyone disagree?
I suggested it so I can't be much against it.
No one is underrating Keano, he just can't be pointed at as a creative force, even more so at the level some of these teams have. Play Butt and Keano against any of these teams and you will lack creative edge.
It's not a bad setup but you are giving rival managers a big stick to knock you with in certain areas. Can your attacking duo make up for that? Maybe.
Brwned, which modmins may be willing? Ideally older ones who have actually seen these players!
Having mulled over it, it may not win Cold_Boy the next game, but it is the only pick which may win him the competition and that's what he should be aiming for.
Impartial modmins vote cast
Replay
5 player shoot-out
All of these are fine. Anything to do with Football Manager, FIFA or predicting weekend's scores have nothing to do with why we selected these teams.
Very few I'd think, otherwise they'd already be voting! Try asking Dwayne, Sultan and Top, they'd give a wide range of opinions.
Don't think they'd mind a one off thing. It's unlikely that there will be another draw. It's been the only one.
Sent a PM. Dwayne doesn't allow them though. We'll see what Sultan/Top say before redrafting casting services.
Or he could win more votes than he lose when people cannot see any defense dealing with Ronaldo and Shevchenko at the same time.
Since we are going by players at their peak, I do not really see Lauren as a weak link. He was very good in a peerless Arsenal side that bestrode the English game in the early 2000s. He may not bring as much to the team as Cafu does but he was nevertheless solid enough to rubbish any talk of being a liability against top quality opposition. He has dealt with Giggs before and his athleticism as well as pace would also place him in good stead against Overmars.
Securing possession, controlling the midfield, having more creativity and goalscoring options did not win me my last match ie voters could be swayed by other factors. Cold Boy has in his favour the best strikers of their generation, the formidable complementary partnership of Ballack and Keane, the passing and goals of Beckham with options to incorporate the creativity and finesse of Litmanen or the pace and directness of Wiltord. Going forward, I do not really see it as a struggle for his team the way you do. Besides, having seen Ronaldo and Shevchenko score goals from nothing by themselves, I would not bet against them repeating it. Add Giggs or Overmars to his team and he could be leading the pack to win this tournament.
I like this as well , would give any team a good match
If he can add Giggs/Overmars to that team, he would be a leading contender to win this tournament.
Indeed.
For all the criticism Cling and I got for our full backs he still has Materazzi and Lauren in his team. Two players I barely rate as good. Materazzi for me is great in the air and that's about it. I criticized Montero a bit for being a thug and what not. Montero is much better than Materazzi. He's like a Pepe kind of thug. Just a nasty work. And he's a wimp as well. Montero is far from a wimp and when he's rough he's at least honest about it.
Also I don't know what Lauren is supposed to be good at. I never remember seeing a game where I though "huh, Lauren is having a good game" and my Arsenal mates never particularly rated him either. They didn't know where he belonged on the pitch (probably because he was a MC and Wenger used him on the right all the time).
It might suit playing against Antohan because he has Vieiri up front and that would keep much of his danger down, or at least more that other defenders would, and he hasn't go anyone on the left wing to properly take advantage of Lauren's presence there but Cling has Overmars on the left and Henry up front. Henry loves some center backs that lack a bit pace or wit.
Also I don't know what Lauren is supposed to be good at. I never remember seeing a game where I though "huh, Lauren is having a good game" and my Arsenal mates never particularly rated him either. They didn't know where he belonged on the pitch (probably because he was a MC and Wenger used him on the right all the time).
It might suit playing against Antohan because he has Vieiri up front and that would keep much of his danger down, or at least more that other defenders would, and he hasn't go anyone on the left wing to properly take advantage of Lauren's presence there but Cling has Overmars on the left and Henry up front. Henry loves some center backs that lack a bit pace or wit.
Materazzi wasn't poor by any means though, sure he wasn't a great defender but that's why he was picked 10th. Lauren was quite good I thought, better than Capdevila in my view.
Not a hope in hell.
There's no way Capdevila would've been picked if it wasn't for the fact he was in the last team to win the World Cup and that's how it should've been. Him having no competition in Spain doesn't make him a great player, he was a mediocre player in good teams IMO.
TEAM ROOD
SUB: Diego Milito
Tactics:
My team features not one, not two, but THREE Ballon D'or winners and when we are talking about players at their peak, there is no greater honour. Add to that a sack full of World Cup, European and domestic medals plus a plethora of individual honours spread all around my legendary players.
We start with an experienced defensive unit with the best pair of fullbacks in this entire draft. Moving into midfield, Guardiola is the heartbeat of my team, dictating play by turning defence into attack with pinpoint passing abilities. Baggio will do the dirty work to break up the opposition and give the more creative players the time and space to operate. Nedved was one of the last great box to box midfielders who are so hard to find nowadays, arguably the best of his generation – adds value to both the defensive and attacking side of the team. An extra touch of guile and class comes from Schneider who was known as a constant provider of goals.
My star player is Rivaldo, I have given him a free role in the hole where he can provide both goals and assists. A young Owen will be instructeded to hang off the shoulder of the last defender and use his speed to get in behind or drag the opposition defence as deep as possible, he only needs a few half chances to convert to a bag full of goals. As if that wasn’t enough, my Plan B option is to introduce the aerial threat and forward power of Diego Milito, proven to score goals on the biggest occasions yet can only manage a place on the bench in this AllStar team.
Shay Given: Ireland’s most capped player and still one of the best keepers in England. Twice voted the best keeper in the Premier League.
PL Team Of The Year ‘02&’06
Roberto Carlos: The best full back in this draft and arguably the greatest full back of all time plus legendary dead ball specialist
UEFA Defender OTY ‘02 / World Cup Allstar Team ‘98&’02
Jaime Carragher: Always Mr.Dependable when called upon by club and country. Versatile enough to play either CB or RB.
PL TOTY '06 / CL Winner
William Gallas: Defensive rock for club and country for many years – known as a strong, speedy defender who can deal with the quickest of attackers.
PL TOTY ‘03&’06 / 2 x PL Winner
Lilian Thuram: Was the most expensive defender in history when he moved to Juve and proved to be worth every penny. Equally comfortable at CB or RB, winning the World Cup, Euros, Serie A etc
WC All Star Team ‘98&’06 / Euro Allstar ’00 / FIFA Bronze Ball ‘98
Pep Guardiola: Known for his football intelligence and ability to pick out the perfect pass even under pressure. He is the blueprint for all Barca’s current success; Xavi, Iniesta and Fàbregas have all stated that he was their role model and hero.
Euro Team Of The Tournament 1992 & 2000 / 6 x La Liga / 2 x Euro Cups etc
Dino Baggio: Will break up the opposition in midfield, big game player who saved his goals for the biggest stage and got his name on the scoresheet in two UEFA finals and the World Cup. A regular for the national team ahead of the likes of Donadoni and Albertini in their prime.
3 times UEFA Cup Winner / WC'94 Runner Up.
Pavel Nedved: Widely regarded as one of the finest midfielders of the modern era, awarded Ballon D’or in 2003. Known for his energy and tireless work, as well as his goal scoring ability, he was nicknamed Furia Ceca ("The Czech Fury") by Juve fans.
Serie A POTY ’03 / Euro AllStar ’04 / UEFA TOTY ’03,’04&’05
Bernd Schneider: Earned the nickname "The White Brazilian" for his dribbling and passing skills as well as his dead ball accuracy. A vital part of teams that reached World Cup and Champions League Finals.
Rudi Völler said: "Bernd was a great footballer, who produced magic for Germany and Leverkusen…”
Rivaldo: One of the greatest players of all time, won everything from World Cup to Champions League to Ballon D’or, plus has an award that no other player in this draft can claim, Uzbek League Top Scorer!
An unstoppable attacking force who could win games all on his own.
Michael Owen: Awarded Ballon D’or ‘01, at his peak his movement was unrivaled and he was considered the deadliest finisher on the planet. Scored one of the all time greatest World Cup goals
Twice winner of the PL Golden Boot, selected in the PL Team Of The Decade
Sub:
Diego Milito A prolific and consistent center-forward, averaged over a goal every two games. Pivotal in Inter's recent treble winning season and his two goals in the CL Final gave him international recognition as one of the world's most effective front men.
Serie A and UEFA FOTY ’10 / Serie A and CL Winner etc.
SUB: Diego Milito
Tactics:
My team features not one, not two, but THREE Ballon D'or winners and when we are talking about players at their peak, there is no greater honour. Add to that a sack full of World Cup, European and domestic medals plus a plethora of individual honours spread all around my legendary players.
We start with an experienced defensive unit with the best pair of fullbacks in this entire draft. Moving into midfield, Guardiola is the heartbeat of my team, dictating play by turning defence into attack with pinpoint passing abilities. Baggio will do the dirty work to break up the opposition and give the more creative players the time and space to operate. Nedved was one of the last great box to box midfielders who are so hard to find nowadays, arguably the best of his generation – adds value to both the defensive and attacking side of the team. An extra touch of guile and class comes from Schneider who was known as a constant provider of goals.
My star player is Rivaldo, I have given him a free role in the hole where he can provide both goals and assists. A young Owen will be instructeded to hang off the shoulder of the last defender and use his speed to get in behind or drag the opposition defence as deep as possible, he only needs a few half chances to convert to a bag full of goals. As if that wasn’t enough, my Plan B option is to introduce the aerial threat and forward power of Diego Milito, proven to score goals on the biggest occasions yet can only manage a place on the bench in this AllStar team.
Shay Given: Ireland’s most capped player and still one of the best keepers in England. Twice voted the best keeper in the Premier League.
PL Team Of The Year ‘02&’06
Roberto Carlos: The best full back in this draft and arguably the greatest full back of all time plus legendary dead ball specialist
UEFA Defender OTY ‘02 / World Cup Allstar Team ‘98&’02
Jaime Carragher: Always Mr.Dependable when called upon by club and country. Versatile enough to play either CB or RB.
PL TOTY '06 / CL Winner
William Gallas: Defensive rock for club and country for many years – known as a strong, speedy defender who can deal with the quickest of attackers.
PL TOTY ‘03&’06 / 2 x PL Winner
Lilian Thuram: Was the most expensive defender in history when he moved to Juve and proved to be worth every penny. Equally comfortable at CB or RB, winning the World Cup, Euros, Serie A etc
WC All Star Team ‘98&’06 / Euro Allstar ’00 / FIFA Bronze Ball ‘98
Pep Guardiola: Known for his football intelligence and ability to pick out the perfect pass even under pressure. He is the blueprint for all Barca’s current success; Xavi, Iniesta and Fàbregas have all stated that he was their role model and hero.
Euro Team Of The Tournament 1992 & 2000 / 6 x La Liga / 2 x Euro Cups etc
Dino Baggio: Will break up the opposition in midfield, big game player who saved his goals for the biggest stage and got his name on the scoresheet in two UEFA finals and the World Cup. A regular for the national team ahead of the likes of Donadoni and Albertini in their prime.
3 times UEFA Cup Winner / WC'94 Runner Up.
Pavel Nedved: Widely regarded as one of the finest midfielders of the modern era, awarded Ballon D’or in 2003. Known for his energy and tireless work, as well as his goal scoring ability, he was nicknamed Furia Ceca ("The Czech Fury") by Juve fans.
Serie A POTY ’03 / Euro AllStar ’04 / UEFA TOTY ’03,’04&’05
Bernd Schneider: Earned the nickname "The White Brazilian" for his dribbling and passing skills as well as his dead ball accuracy. A vital part of teams that reached World Cup and Champions League Finals.
Rudi Völler said: "Bernd was a great footballer, who produced magic for Germany and Leverkusen…”
Rivaldo: One of the greatest players of all time, won everything from World Cup to Champions League to Ballon D’or, plus has an award that no other player in this draft can claim, Uzbek League Top Scorer!
An unstoppable attacking force who could win games all on his own.Michael Owen: Awarded Ballon D’or ‘01, at his peak his movement was unrivaled and he was considered the deadliest finisher on the planet. Scored one of the all time greatest World Cup goals
Twice winner of the PL Golden Boot, selected in the PL Team Of The Decade
Sub:
Diego Milito A prolific and consistent center-forward, averaged over a goal every two games. Pivotal in Inter's recent treble winning season and his two goals in the CL Final gave him international recognition as one of the world's most effective front men.
Serie A and UEFA FOTY ’10 / Serie A and CL Winner etc.
Same could be said for Lauren at his time at Arsenal.
Although Lauren was never near world class nor did he maintain consistently high standards over a sustained period of time, some seem to under-rate him at his best. He was voted by fellow professionals into the PFA team of the year in 2004, which means they rate him as the best right-back in England that year, ahead of our Gary Neville. They probably saw something that Snow and his mates did not see.
That our other right backs weren't good enough that seasob. Not losing a game probably helped as well.
Ruud was in the team of the year but he wasn't one of the nominees for player of the year. Shearer was. Jay-Jay Okocha as well. Make of that what you will.
Ruud was in the team of the year but he wasn't one of the nominees for player of the year. Shearer was. Jay-Jay Okocha as well. Make of that what you will.
Neville was very good that year, he stepped up his game after Beckham left, defensively he covered for Ronaldo, offensively he improved his runs and crossing, you should watch the season review dvds again.
The votes were in well before the season ended. Doubt the PFA members knew months in advance that Arsenal would finish the league unbeaten.
That Okacha had an outstanding year and his fellow professionals deem him deserving of recognition? Some players go through purple patches in form and are given due recognition by fellow professionals. Not that hard to accept.
Lauren was pretty good at in his peak.Voted best RB for a season in PL.
The reason people were surprised he became quite good is because at first he struggled but then became a first choice RB during Arsenal's golden period.
Materrazzi too was a very good defender.Won defender of Serie A 2007. The reason people didn't pick him before was I admit he was a thug and a grade A cnut. But this game is not to be judged on cuntiness or player's personality etc.
You are talking as if Materazzi and Lauren were average players at their peak.
Capdevilla was average consistently.
Lauren was average most of his career but had a time in peak where he was very good.
Left-back's been a problem position for Spain - they've tried out 18 of them in the last decade.
Nail on head, awards sometimes just indicate purple patches, or politics (no one in their right mind would have Cannavaro as the best player in 2006, but Italy won the World Cup, defenders rarely get recognition, put two and two together...
A lot of awards are just pure bullshit, some are really deserved. Fans usually can telll between the two.
Can anyone give me examples of when Capdevila has been hopelessly exposed?
Tbf neither has been Lauren. Antohan has been assuming that Giggs or Overmars will tear apart Lauren, but I don't think with the presence of Becks in front of him and the fact that Lauren was a pretty good defender in his prime would hurt.
That Arsenal team was fecking good, an average player wouldn't have got into their side.
Also Materazzi did receive the Seria A defender of the year 2007(whose previous 3 winners were Cannavarro, Maldini and Nesta) so it's not like they give this award without any merit.
They're probably not as good as Abidal or Stam, but I think the defense as a whole is really good.
I distinctly remember Giggs running rings around him but never mind, you are facing Overmars now. He probably will as well. Still, as I said earlier, your only chance of winning this is adding Ronaldo upfront, not with Cafú. Cling Bak can't exactly have a massive go at Lauren when playing Kelly at RB.
The alternative to Lauren was Hoyte. At CB Cygan. In central midfield Edú. They had no depth or actual competition for starting places.
Very lucky with injuries I would say.
To be fair mate, every defender once in a while will have it's bad days. I think Lauren as a whole was a fairly solid defender in his prime.
Fairly solid yes. Good enough for a team that had most opponents on the back foot. When facing quality opposition he was a weak link (not rubbish, but a weak link nonetheless, the weakest clearly in a back four with Campbell, Toure and Cole).
I repeat, one of the main innovations Wenger brought to Arsenal was disposing of very traditional defensive-minded fullbacks and playing attacking fullbacks, often converting midfielders into fullbacks for their football skills rather than defensive ability. I defended Lauren earlier indicating he was quite capable and probably the right type of fullback for that Arsenal team. But play a top quality winger against him and he is in trouble.
Alos worth noting is that on the side where I have Lauren , I might play beckham too.
So he could help him out there.
Who did Cling pick from Snow's team?
Or is he still waiting?
Or is he still waiting?
In any case, it was never my intention to knock Lauren. It was purely you were thinking about a pick and I pointed out you had a potentially match-losing problem there.
As it stands, once I started looking at Cling and Snow in detail yesterday I started fancying your chances of getting away with it. And if you can, there is no doubt that going into the final you would want Ronaldo up there.
The defence will still be a bit suspect though.
As it stands, once I started looking at Cling and Snow in detail yesterday I started fancying your chances of getting away with it. And if you can, there is no doubt that going into the final you would want Ronaldo up there.
The defence will still be a bit suspect though.
Fair enough,mate.
Also yeah Ronaldo and Shevchenko at their peaks together.Best strike partnership in the draw surely?
Fair enough,mate.
Also yeah Ronaldo and Shevchenko at their peaks together.Best strike partnership in the draw surely?
I would say Ronaldo and Vieri, but I would, wouldn't I?
Honestly, they would complement each other better. You have no aerial threat in the box. With Beckham on that's a crying shame. You do have it from midfield though.