5 years without a trophy - Further away than ever

[Luke1995]

Did Liverpool win and the league by going all out on big names? Apart from VVD from Southampton, and Alison from Roma, none of their signings were big names.

Even City don’t sign “big names” they have in the past signed the best players in the 21-24 year age bracket but none of those signings were for fees like say £120m. Initially they went after “big names” eg Robinho etc but it didn’t really get them anywhere

Great teams are built by a mixture of things. I still think this season, with a more tactically astute and obsessed to win manager we could have drawn less games and might have taken it to last day and maybe even won the league.

In Liverpool's case, the big names they signed were what they needed to turn into title contenders. I think United tried to do that when signed Pogba Ibrahimovic and Mourinho but it obviously didn't work out.

In our case, the problem is, even if we manage to sign say, two world class players, it still wouldn't make the team good enough to compete with City week in week out...

I'm not saying United should go all out to buy players, even because of the impact covid has had on the market, but I expect the club to at least target, say, a world class defender or Goalkeeper.

I'm not sure if Henderson can become that good and De Gea in best case scenario would get back some of his old form, but not all of it.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Right.... meanwhile we become stronger as a unit and better team.
Current United would best any of Jose’s teams at United as they have to nearly every top team they’ve played in the last two seasons.

Your stats prove nothing much like your opinion on where the club is heading.

Based on what?

we are useless beating low blocks.

 

[Tomuś]

I don’t really want this to be a dig at Ole but watching this CL final we look a million miles away from both these teams. The way they move both with and without the ball, the speed of the passing and the execution of both managers tactic is something to behold.

I really hope we can take a long look at our coaches and bring in 1 or 2 we’re miles off this lot.

To be honest I don't think that City performance would beat any of us or Villarreal. They were shocking.

 

[MattyB1986]

For real? Our bench is better than their first team. Can you imagine Ole with Villareal’s squad? He wouldn’t even make top 10 let alone win the Europa cup against one of the most expensive squads in Europe (us). You are seriously underestimating our squad which is a fantastic one and more than capable of winning the Europa Cup, there is a reason we were clear favorites. We don’t lack a good squad, we lack a good manager.

I meant to include United's teams of old in comparison to that, why I put strength in depth after, a lot of our players got overplayed and shattered, so we should have turned to our bench.

Sorry for the late reply, I often work a lot, so not always about. But you are quite right about your analysis of we should have beat Villareal even with that bench. We struggled all last season with low block teams, we need to address that, otherwise that will cost Ole his job.

I'm on the fence with Ole, to be honest - I can see progress, but yeah, ultimately, I feel to go to the next stage will we need another manager.

 

[Siezard]

That's why Ole will go for Sancho to save his job. He will win a trophy soon.

 

[wolvored]

I can see this stretching to 5. There is realistically only 3 trophies we can win. EL, FAC and LC. We need a lot of luck and I think teams are working out how we play. Sit deep and we are fecked. Now if we sign Sancho and Trippier, this could change a little as the dynamic of attacking mainly from the left might even out. I said in another thread last season might be Oles best as manager.

 

[el3mel]

I can see this stretching to 5. There is realistically only 3 trophies we can win. EL, FAC and LC. We need a lot of luck and I think teams are working out how we play. Sit deep and we are fecked. Now if we sign Sancho and Trippier, this could change a little as the dynamic of attacking mainly from the left might even out. I said in another thread last season might be Oles best as manager.

Which trophy? I mean if we sign Sancho and Trippier we should be targeting something like the Premier League. I don't think such money for such kind of players and enter next season trying to compete for League Cup.

Next season this United should challenge for the damn league and any other result is unacceptable.

 

[devilish]

That's why Ole will go for Sancho to save his job. He will win a trophy soon.

Sancho on his own won't save us. We need a CB, a DM, a RW and quite frankly better coaching.

 

[R_Cubed]

To be honest I don't think that City performance would beat any of us or Villarreal. They were shocking.

You are severely deluded and at best myopic. Chelsea made City look the way they did. That Chelsea team earned their way to the final by making top quality teams look average. To say City would struggle against Villareal is hugely problematic.

 

[R_Cubed]

Sancho on his own won't save us. We need a CB, a DM, a RW and quite frankly better coaching.

If Ole believes that Sancho on his own is the solution, I doubt he does, then he is worse as a manager than I thought.

 

[R_Cubed]

This is less bothersome to me than us struggling against Palace, dropping points at home to Fulham, Sheffield United and away to West Brom.

 

[Foxbatt]

Sancho on his own won't save us. We need a CB, a DM, a RW and quite frankly better coaching.

Agree with you. We need a lot more than just Sancho. We will have to deal with Chelsea and Liverpool and City the next season. And of course much better coaching.

 

[devilish]

If Ole believes that Sancho on his own is the solution, I doubt he does, then he is worse as a manager than I thought.

Agree with you. We need a lot more than just Sancho. We will have to deal with Chelsea and Liverpool and City the next season. And of course much better coaching.

Sancho should be careful in choosing his next move carefully. As Kagawa and Mkhitaryan can testify the transition between Dortmund and United can be quite hard if not career breaking. Sancho should refuse signing with us unless we reassure him that he's not going to be our biggest signing this summer. Lets someone experienced such as Varane, Ronaldo or/and Neves take or at least share some of the pressure from him.

 

[GaryLifo]

The team we have reflects quite a lot of our fan base.

The irony is, many of our fans criticise the side for being soft and defeatist when it gets to the crunch when they themselves are exactly the same in their own lives.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The team we have reflects quite a lot of our fan base.

The irony is, many of our fans criticise the side for being soft and defeatist when it gets to the crunch when they themselves are exactly the same in their own lives.

How on earth did you come to that rather bizarre conclusion?

 

[GaryLifo]

How on earth did you come to that rather bizarre conclusion?

Several years of seeing our fans on here moaning and criticising everyone and everything for not being good enough.

Have you seen the matchday threads if United aren't 4-0 up after ten minutes?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Several years of seeing our fans on here moaning and criticising everyone and everything for not being good enough.

Have you seen the matchday threads if United aren't 4-0 up after ten minutes?

Yeah but, how do you know they are unsuccessful in their own lives?

 

[snk123]

Based on what?

we are useless beating low blocks.

I swear I have heard this term this year the first time and then literally in every second post.

What made us switch from "teams that sit back" or "teams that defend deep"?

 

[Bastian]

I swear I have heard this term this year the first time and then literally in every second post.

What made us switch from "teams that sit back" or "teams that defend deep"?

I think it was Jose's punditry between the United and Spurs jobs, where he kept talking about the low block, then Souness followed suit, and it entered the general lexicon after that.

 

[V.O.]

I swear I have heard this term this year the first time and then literally in every second post.

What made us switch from "teams that sit back" or "teams that defend deep"?

Jose Mourinho said it once when he was doing a pundit gig and it's been the thing to say ever since.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I swear I have heard this term this year the first time and then literally in every second post.

What made us switch from "teams that sit back" or "teams that defend deep"?

It is said that „low block” is a profesional term... or something

 

[GaryLifo]

Yeah but, how do you know they are unsuccessful in their own lives?

I didn't say they were unsuccessful, I said they were defeatist. It's an educated guess based upon the amount of times I've seen posts like

"That's it, we're never winning this now"

After United go a goal down in the first half.

 

[Foxbatt]

I really do not think we can win the PL or the CL or even challenge for those next season, Sancho or no Sancho. And even with Varane.

 

[GaryLifo]

Cool, let's withdraw from the Premier league then and start a new league with no promotion or relegation.... oh wait

 

[Amadaeus]

I really do not think we can win the PL or the CL or even challenge for those next season, Sancho or no Sancho. And even with Varane.

I bet Chelsea fan taught the same thing about the champion league, until Tuchel happened. We can win the league if we land certain top quality players and have a manager with great tactical acumen and/or luck.

It is funny how many United fan believe this when we came second in the season and went to the europa league finals. It must mean our second place finish was a fluke.

 

[el3mel]

The team we have reflects quite a lot of our fan base.

The irony is, many of our fans criticise the side for being soft and defeatist when it gets to the crunch when they themselves are exactly the same in their own lives.

Didn't know we have a psychologist here. Nice.

 

[manuchamp88]

Agree with you. We need a lot more than just Sancho. We will have to deal with Chelsea and Liverpool and City the next season. And of course much better coaching.

Especially Chelsea if they get Haaland. What will be our response?

 

[GaryLifo]

Didn't know we have a psychologist here. Nice.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I actually am. Currently a senior lecturer in psychology at a university and formerly was a senior psychologist in practice with chartered status. I have a PhD and have published a several papers in peer reviewed journals.

Nice to meet you

 

[tenpoless]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I actually am. Currently a senior lecturer in psychology at a university and formerly was a senior psychologist in practice with chartered status. I have a PhD and have published a several papers in peer reviewed journals.

Nice to meet you

Link to your papers please I want to read them

 

[GaryLifo]

Link to your papers please I want to read them

I'll send you a pm a bit later with some links. Not all of them are full open access but you can at least read the abstracts

 

[devilish]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I actually am. Currently a senior lecturer in psychology at a university and formerly was a senior psychologist in practice with chartered status. I have a PhD and have published a several papers in peer reviewed journals.

Nice to meet you

Are you a clinical psychologist? Cause all the psychologists I know told me that you can't really diagnose a person let alone an entire crowd from a couple of random posts. Surely you must have read about compliance and how that can effect people on this forum

My wife and her cousin are real doctors (they are trusted in prescribing drugs and all). They pretty much say the same thing.

 

[Gehrman]

Yeah but, how do you know they are unsuccessful in their own lives?

Probably the amount of time spent on Redcafe.

 

[sparx99]

You are severely deluded and at best myopic. Chelsea made City look the way they did. That Chelsea team earned their way to the final by making top quality teams look average. To say City would struggle against Villareal is hugely problematic.

Villareal aren’t shit though. They finished 7th in La Liga. The 7th placed team in England was Tottenham. Tottenham aren’t as good as couple of years ago but they still have some top players. It’s not a huge shock if Tottenham beat City, Chelsea, Utd or Liverpool. It’s a great result for them but not ridiculous.

To put it another way; Utd could have beaten both Chelsea and City in the Champions League final.

We have a tendency in this country to dismiss La Liga as a a 2-3 team league. Yet Sevilla, Valencia, Real Sociedad, Atletico Bilbao and Villareal have all given English teams a hard time over the years. Their teams keep winning the Europa League over ours.

For me the question is whether having a particularly young team on average and missing Maguire is enough to excuse another failure. I’m inclined to give all involved one final chance next season. If we don’t see a sustained push for the league and some actual success then I don’t see how Ole could survive. Equally if we have another Autumn run like we’ve had two years in a row the pressure could be too much.

 

[GaryLifo]

Are you a clinical psychologist? Cause all the psychologists I know told me that you can't really diagnose a person let alone an entire crowd from a couple of random posts. Surely you must have read about compliance and how that can effect people on this forum

My wife and her cousin are real doctors (they are trusted in prescribing drugs and all). They pretty much say the same thing.

I thought it was pretty clear I was giving an opinion based upon what I was reading. I've only mentioned my credentials in direct response to someone making a light hearted jib at my post.

It's just my opinion that the kind of person who posts "game over man" if United are losing after 20 minutes is also quite likely to apply the same attitude to adversity in their own life. An opinion based on my own perception.

I know that you didn't really think I was giving any kind of professional diagnosis and so your attempt to one up me here falls pretty flat; again in my opinion.

 

[Tomuś]

You are severely deluded and at best myopic. Chelsea made City look the way they did. That Chelsea team earned their way to the final by making top quality teams look average. To say City would struggle against Villareal is hugely problematic.

I said that City. That level of performance, put it this way.

 

[Jaxa]

I didn't say they were unsuccessful, I said they were defeatist. It's an educated guess based upon the amount of times I've seen posts like

"That's it, we're never winning this now"

After United go a goal down in the first half.

I've seen some rubbish posts on here but this is right up there

You sound like a caveman who has never watched football before and then been asked to give their opinion on football fans after 2 or 3 matches,

That's all football fans mate across the board, were reactive, emotional and logic usually goes out the window because we are so caught up in the moment and desperate to see our team do well, hardly defeatist, the irony is it sounds like a very uneducated guess from yourself.

 

[Jacob]

I've reached a point with age where I couldn't care less about trophies. I just want to see the team I have a lot of time invested in play enjoyable football without too much drama (sticking to values and heritage).

 

[GBBQ]

I really do not think we can win the PL or the CL or even challenge for those next season, Sancho or no Sancho. And even with Varane.

I agree on the Premier League, I think City's squad depth means they will be best equipped to win over 38 games. However Chelsea just beat City in the CL, in knockout games anything can happen so i don't necessarily think a CL win is beyond us if we got the right draw.

 

[GaryLifo]

I've reached a point with age where I couldn't care less about trophies. I just want to see the team I have a lot of time invested in play enjoyable football without too much drama (sticking to values and heritage).

Nothing wrong with that. I've been saying for a long time I'd respect the club more if they had come out a few years ago and said they were going down a 90% youth player / academy promotion route from that point on for the first team. Limited transfers and expect it to take a while to build our own team to compete, money invested in the stadium, the academy, in coaching and scouting and recruiting the best young players in the world.

Realise it's a daft pipe-dream, but it's nice to dream about.

 

[Jacob]

Nothing wrong with that. I've been saying for a long time I'd respect the club more if they had come out a few years ago and said they were going down a 90% youth player / academy promotion route from that point on for the first team. Limited transfers and expect it to take a while to build our own team to compete, money invested in the stadium, the academy, in coaching and scouting and recruiting the best young players in the world.

Realise it's a daft pipe-dream, but it's nice to dream about.

That level of transparency and honesty would be refreshing. Similarly, I'd like us to retain a core of domestic players (and I'm not even British). Swaying too far from that principle only alienates fans that adopted United for traditional reasons.