5 years without a trophy - Further away than ever

[SAFMUTD]

Well that would be very easy...he has won more games and earned more points. If you would rather keep finishing 6th with a 2nd tier pot from time-to-time then fine but I care about winning games in the PL

Wow that's a new length there, it's not about titles it's about average points in the premier league. Feck me it's getting more and more ridiculous.

LVG's record in the EPL 39W, 19D, 18L. Points per game: 1.79 Trophies won: 1 sloppy FA cup.
Verdict: failure

Mourinho's record in the EPL with Man Utd: 50W, 26D, 17L. Points per game: 1.89.
Trophies won: 1 sloppy EL.
Veredict: failure

Ole's record in EPL with Man Utd: 85W, 32D, 34L.
Points per game: 1.90
Trophies won: none
Veredict: somehow success.

Jeez I hadn't noticed that 0.01 points per game difference from Mourinho hold so much weight. True progress and stuff.

 

[Yagami]

I honestly think it won't be long until Chelsea overtake us in European cups.

Since our last final in 2011, they've won 2. We, on the other hand, have only reached the quarter final at most since, and we only got that far by beating Olympiakos and managing one of the flukiest wins ever over PSG.

 

[Rightnr]

Wow that's a new length there, it's not about titles it's about average points in the premier league. Feck me it's getting more and more ridiculous.

LVG's record in the EPL 39W, 19D, 18L. Points per game: 1.79 Trophies won: 1 sloppy FA cup.
Verdict: failure

Mourinho's record in the EPL with Man Utd: 50W, 26D, 17L. Points per game: 1.89.
Trophies won: 1 sloppy EL.
Veredict: failure

Ole's record in EPL with Man Utd: 85W, 32D, 34L.
Points per game: 1.90
Trophies won: none
Veredict: somehow success.

Jeez I hadn't noticed that 0.01 points per game difference from Mourinho hold so much weight. True progress and stuff.

Jose actually also got us a Carabao cup as well, bless his miserable arse. We also lost the FA Cup in his 2nd place season in a very similar fashion to the EL this year.

Hopefully we won't have to wait till we're almost out of the top 4 race till we see a similar decision this time round.

 

[el3mel]

I like the logic of thinking of some : we can't even win a Micky Mouse cup like EL, FA cups or EL against a 7th spot La Liga side, but ultimately Ole is building a side that will challenge for the Premier League soon. How come both go hand to hand together you will never understand.

I will like some of what those are smoking.

 

[The Oracle]

When it comes to the crunch we have a manager who’ll sit passively on the bench , looking at his screen, biting his lip , looking nervously on too chicken shit to even substitute an injured player whose been stinking up the joint for weeks.

He brings nothing except convincing people that rivals collapsing somehow represents progress for us.

This.

I mentioned on the forum weeks ago that Ole stays sat down and doesn't offer anything from the sideline during matches.

I was then slaughtered on here with comments like:
"Players don't listen to manager's during matches anyway".

It is crystal clear that we have a manager that is well and truly clueless and out of his depth.

The lengths that some of our fanbase go to, to defend him is unreal.

As a player for us, he is rightly a club legend, and gave me my best moment as a Man Utd supporter.

As a manager, he is the worst manager I have ever seen at a top level club.

 

[mariachi-19]

Wow that's a new length there, it's not about titles it's about average points in the premier league. Feck me it's getting more and more ridiculous.

LVG's record in the EPL 39W, 19D, 18L. Points per game: 1.79 Trophies won: 1 sloppy FA cup.
Verdict: failure

Mourinho's record in the EPL with Man Utd: 50W, 26D, 17L. Points per game: 1.89.
Trophies won: 1 sloppy EL.
Veredict: failure

Ole's record in EPL with Man Utd: 85W, 32D, 34L.
Points per game: 1.90
Trophies won: none
Veredict: somehow success.

Jeez I hadn't noticed that 0.01 points per game difference from Mourinho hold so much weight. True progress and stuff.

Right.... meanwhile we become stronger as a unit and better team.
Current United would best any of Jose’s teams at United as they have to nearly every top team they’ve played in the last two seasons.

Your stats prove nothing much like your opinion on where the club is heading.

 

[Rightnr]

Right.... meanwhile we become stronger as a unit and better team.
Current United would best any of Jose’s teams at United as they have to nearly every top team they’ve played in the last two seasons.

Your stats prove nothing much like your opinion on where the club is heading.

We become stronger as a unit. A quote worthy of RAWK, if I've ever seen one. With an added sprinkling of 'I don't like your facts and they don't suit my narrative' to add that extra bit of delusion and complete the picture of a true top red.

 

[hobbers]

Right.... meanwhile we become stronger as a unit and better team.
Current United would best any of Jose’s teams at United as they have to nearly every top team they’ve played in the last two seasons.

Define bested.

Because bested for me isn't getting a pathetic 12 points from the 12 games against the top 7 sides in the league this season. And it isn't losing to Chelsea and Leicester in the FA cups. Nor is it losing to Sevilla and Villarreal. Nor is it embarrassing ourselves in the CL.

Stronger unit my foot.

 

[mariachi-19]

Define bested.

Because bested for me isn't getting a pathetic 12 points from the 12 games against the top 7 sides in the league this season. And it isn't losing to Chelsea and Leicester in the FA cups. Nor is it losing to Sevilla and Villarreal. Nor is it embarrassing ourselves in the CL.

Stronger unit my foot.

That’s because you’re a muppet.

 

[hobbers]

That’s because you’re a muppet.

Or because I have a sane view of what bested actually means. 'Getting the better of'.

And for us to 'get the better of' other big clubs we have to beat them in football matches. And win trophies.

And this season we've done neither. But for the United board the route to success isn't to strive for it, it's to redefine the terms.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Right.... meanwhile we become stronger as a unit and better team.
Current United would best any of Jose’s teams at United as they have to nearly every top team they’ve played in the last two seasons.

Your stats prove nothing much like your opinion on where the club is heading.

Would beat it based on what? It's highly hypothetical...cant be proved.

The stats prove Ole is around the same as LVG and Mourinho without the minor trophies they got. Hardly anything to cheer about or prove that we're heading in the right direction or improving.

 

[mariachi-19]

Or because I have a sane view of what bested actually means. 'Getting the better of'.

And for us to 'get the better of' other big clubs we have to beat them in football matches. And win trophies.

And this season we've done neither. But for the United board the route to success isn't to strive for it, it's to redefine the terms.

Psg, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Redbull, Milan, Liverpool... all teams we’ve played off the park at times this season.

Would beat it based on what? It's highly hypothetical...cant be proved.

The stats prove Ole is around the same as LVG and Mourinho without the minor trophies they got. Hardly anything to cheer about or prove that we're heading in the right direction or improving.

it’s called a fecking eye test and you should book yourself in to spec savers to get one soon.

our overall style of player over the course of a season along with the general togetherness of the team (ie not putting square pegs in round holes and seeing general partnerships) is making us look much more fluid, hence the reason there are times when we take the best teams in Europe to pieces like they’re our play thing.

Just because it hasn’t netted trophies yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. Neither Chelsea or City have needed a cultural reboot either.

 

[wise_old_man]

Psg, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Redbull, Milan, Liverpool... all teams we’ve played off the park at times this season.

it’s called a fecking eye test and you should book yourself in to spec savers to get one soon.

our overall style of player over the course of a season along with the general togetherness of the team (ie not putting square pegs in round holes and seeing general partnerships) is making us look much more fluid, hence the reason there are times when we take the best teams in Europe to pieces like they’re our play thing.

Just because it hasn’t netted trophies yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. Neither Chelsea or City have needed a cultural reboot either.

You can say that about trophies. But what about the actual average points in the League that he pointed out? Does it indicate progress?

 

[Greck]

I honestly think it won't be long until Chelsea overtake us in European cups.

Since our last final in 2011, they've won 2. We, on the other hand, have only reached the quarter final at most since, and we only got that far by beating Olympiakos and managing one of the flukiest wins ever over PSG.

Strictly personally speaking , feels like a slap in the face that both came in seasons they sacked their managers, specifically because we operate on the exact opposite rationale when it comes to the topic of change. Feels like the clocks at OT have all stopped the way everyone around us picks up trophies in the same period we have none. Even Arsenal have a recent FA cup but having Chelsea win the CL stings, we were supposed to be having a better season than them

 

[Water Melon]

This thread helped me add 3-4 posters to my ignore list which will make surfing the caf much more pleasant experience.

 

[SAFMUTD]

it’s called a fecking eye test and you should book yourself in to spec savers to get one soon.

Well your "fecking eye test" is by no means a fact, it's your opinion and since it's hypothetical it can't be proved and the funny thing is that stats don't even back it up. So the only thing to back up for hypothesis is your eye test. Pretty much a "everyone is crazy except me" argument.

our overall style of player over the course of a season along with the general togetherness of the team (ie not putting square pegs in round holes and seeing general partnerships) is making us look much more fluid, hence the reason there are times when we take the best teams in Europe to pieces like they’re our play thing.

Please tell me which top teams in Europe we shred to pieces? I mean we won against PSG and City but by no means we destroyed them. They were really tough games which we ultimately won by playing on the counter, also we lost against them as well.

Just because it hasn’t netted trophies yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. Neither Chelsea or City have needed a cultural reboot either.

Who defines who needs a cultural reboot? I mean Chelsea went through the exactly same shit we went under Mourinho, difference is they fired him and moved on, while we fired him and adopted this whole rebuild narrative and how it's going to take years and years to fix the mess he left.

 

[Lentwood]

Wow that's a new length there, it's not about titles it's about average points in the premier league. Feck me it's getting more and more ridiculous.

LVG's record in the EPL 39W, 19D, 18L. Points per game: 1.79 Trophies won: 1 sloppy FA cup.
Verdict: failure

Mourinho's record in the EPL with Man Utd: 50W, 26D, 17L. Points per game: 1.89.
Trophies won: 1 sloppy EL.
Veredict: failure

Ole's record in EPL with Man Utd: 85W, 32D, 34L.
Points per game: 1.90
Trophies won: none
Veredict: somehow success.

Jeez I hadn't noticed that 0.01 points per game difference from Mourinho hold so much weight. True progress and stuff.

Nobody is saying trophies don’t matter but the league is your bread and butter. Pointless winning the FA Cup and finishing 6th.

In Ole’s two full seasons as our manager we have finished 3rd and 2nd. Do you want to post our league positions under Moyes, LvG or Jose or shall I?

 

[The Oracle]

4 years without a trophy...

and it will be 4 more years if we stick with Ole

 

[wolvored]

The manager you say isn’t up to it has achieved our best results since 2013

How do you work that out?

 

[stw2022]

The football we play is as terrible now as it has ever been. We don’t even have a style of play. Two years on and can see the manager’s personality on the pitch and that personality is hope Fernandes plays well

 

[Red00012]

We laugh and deplore plastic chelski but you can’t knock their recent trophy record. Their silent but ruthless owner demands success and doesn’t care who he sacks and how often to get there. They’ve now won two champion leagues since our last. I’m depressed

But but but what about the United way ?

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Let’s be realistic, the owners are now using him as a human shield. They’ll never sack him as long as we get top 4. If they sack him
and the next manager goes full Jose, where do they go from there?

I have a wild theory that since Man City come in and can spend huge money on dross players it pushes the price up. It also forces teams to pay bigger money for players they want, when they hear City are interested.

I don't actually believe City were interested in Maguire or Fred, well not really, but they can make United consider raising their bid in order to stop City getting him. Same with Sanchez.

 

[stw2022]

I’d honestly take fourth if I could genuinely see the direction we were going at what he was trying to do over second aided by the misfortune of rivals giving false sense of progression whilst still looking terrible on the pitch

 

[matt10000]

And right now we are far behind both.

Not that far behind, according to lots in here Ole was useless etc, still gets a lot of criticism despite the fact that he has us competing at the top.

I feared that when SAF retired we would have some turmoil and we did, huge job to fix that and Ole is 80% there.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

I think I said when Sir Alex retired that if we are not careful we will turn into another Liverpool.

Twenty years in the wilderness with a few cup runs along the way. A club that goes from manager to manager, continuingly making bad signings, spending money and getting little return.

If you were the Glazers, wouldn't you want to make your franchise team win all trophies and then increase its value for sale?

 

[StBruno]

whilst I regret the lack of trophies I still think there has been a small amount of progress given where we finished up. My main worry is that second may have been built on an away record achieved in empty stadiums.

if we accept there has been just a small amount of progress- then I say one more season .

But if he gets a CD and a Rw then he really has to get us over the line with something.
If not then reluctantly I agree. After 5 years it is ultimately all about winning trophies.

 

[Lentwood]

How do you work that out?

The traditional way...league position!

I get bored of arguing with people on the Internet who try to tell me things haven’t improved. I sat there mate, every single week. £50 a ticket to watch 10 games without a goal at our end, being beaten on the regular by teams like Burnley, Southampton and Swansea. Being not just beaten but ruthlessly embarrassed against the likes of Liverpool and City game after game. If you’re trying to tell me things haven’t improved I must have dreamt those five years at sat in East Stand and watched horrorshow after horrorshow

 

[Ludens the Red]

The traditional way...league position!

I get bored of arguing with people on the Internet who try to tell me things haven’t improved. I sat there mate, every single week. £50 a ticket to watch 10 games without a goal at our end, being beaten on the regular by teams like Burnley, Southampton and Swansea. Being not just beaten but ruthlessly embarrassed against the likes of Liverpool and City game after game. If you’re trying to tell me things haven’t improved I must have dreamt those five years at sat in East Stand and watched horrorshow after horrorshow

Interesting...you don’t help Oles case when you literally make things up.

We only lost to Burnley once and that was with Ole in charge. Apart from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were never “embarrassed” by Liverpool and City. In fact both beat them multiple times. LVG for all his faults won all four league games against Liverpool. Our home record under Mourinho is statistically better than our home record under anyone else. The only truth told in your post was the run of games at home under LVG when we couldn’t score a first half goal. I’m also not sure what the difference is between regularly losing to Swansea and Southampton to regularly losing to Crystal Palace and to whichever team finishes in the relegation zone.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Nobody is saying trophies don’t matter but the league is your bread and butter. Pointless winning the FA Cup and finishing 6th.

In Ole’s two full seasons as our manager we have finished 3rd and 2nd. Do you want to post our league positions under Moyes, LvG or Jose or shall I?

So we get a trophy for finishing 3rd and 2nd? Does that makes him more successful/less of a failure?

I'm not defending LVG nor Mourinho here, they both failed, I'm just amazed of how Ole is deemed as successful when he's trophyless. Seems that the top 4 mentality is getting installed around here.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I have a wild theory that since Man City come in and can spend huge money on dross players it pushes the price up. It also forces teams to pay bigger money for players they want, when they hear City are interested.

I don't actually believe City were interested in Maguire or Fred, well not really, but they can make United consider raising their bid in order to stop City getting him. Same with Sanchez.

Funny thing is City spend a lot but on several players, Liverpool, Chelsea and us have spent more than then on a single player. they're not the ones driving the prices up.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Interesting...you don’t help Oles case when you literally make things up.

We only lost to Burnley once and that was with Ole in charge. Apart from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were never “embarrassed” by Liverpool and City. In fact both beat them multiple times. LVG for all his faults won all four league games against Liverpool. Our home record under Mourinho is statistically better than our home record under anyone else. The only truth told in your post was the run of games at home under LVG when we couldn’t score a first half goal. I’m also not sure what the difference is between regularly losing to Swansea and Southampton to regularly losing to Crystal Palace and to whichever team finishes in the relegation zone.

Just twist it to fit the narrative, don't mind about facts it's all about perception here. Ole is doing great because the narrative says so, don't look at results just go with it.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Manchester United are the biggest club in the world, it’s time to start acting like it. The manager & most of the players are not good enough. feck the process, it’s time for a rebuild.

Patiently awaiting the “you’re not a real fan” brigade. Ah yes, because blindly supporting paid employees who could give two shits about the club is a better way to show your support than wanting the club to win trophies & buy better players.

 

[bsCallout]

Wow that's a new length there, it's not about titles it's about average points in the premier league. Feck me it's getting more and more ridiculous.

LVG's record in the EPL 39W, 19D, 18L. Points per game: 1.79 Trophies won: 1 sloppy FA cup.
Verdict: failure

Mourinho's record in the EPL with Man Utd: 50W, 26D, 17L. Points per game: 1.89.
Trophies won: 1 sloppy EL.
Veredict: failure

Ole's record in EPL with Man Utd: 85W, 32D, 34L.
Points per game: 1.90
Trophies won: none
Veredict: somehow success.

Jeez I hadn't noticed that 0.01 points per game difference from Mourinho hold so much weight. True progress and stuff.

It keeps getting mentioned that Ole's season is a success but I'm sure that word is used much more by those that want him out than those that want him to stay.

It seems to me that plenty want him out, there are plenty that are happy to see how it goes next season because they think there has been reasonable improvements and not too many that thought it was a successful season and he should definitely stay.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We are pretty much a joke now, we have literally become what we used to laugh at Liverpool & Arsenal for. The standards are absolutely in the gutter and unfortunately more & more clubs are catching up. When Saf left we had such a huge gap over most of the other clubs but now we are pretty much always in a rebuild. Constant rebuilding without any actual product. Absolute joke club from top to bottom. Now watch us give more useless players ridiculous contracts for no apparent reason and continue this rebuild

The fans make it harder for us to get back to the top because they refuse to up their standards.

Most United fans would take top 4 & no trophies next season if offered. This is a problem. The lack of ambition is not just coming from the Glazers.

 

[SAFMUTD]

It keeps getting mentioned that Ole's season is a success but I'm sure that word is used much more by those that want him out than those that want him to stay.

It seems to me that plenty want him out, there are plenty that are happy to see how it goes next season because they think there has been reasonable improvements and not too many that thought it was a successful season and he should definitely stay.

Well l think only fans with really low bar would grade this season as a success. But they do rate Ole as a success, funny how that goes. Ole did good but the team didn't as it somehow they're not in the same ship.

I agree there are less and less people that want him here no matter what, most want to give him another season. It's natural that he has lose support people is not blind and his time is running out.

All I'm saying is I've seen enough to make my mind up about him I don't think it's a patience, players or time issue. It's a coaching issue, the problems within the team while can be diminished by having better players won't be just solved by that.

There should be coaching involved to solve those problems, I don't see how Ole is going to suddenly click and become a top manager so for me giving him and extra year is just a waste of time. He'll I mean this season was. Players brought made little to no impact, our playing style it's the same, we still have the same weakness about not know how to play out from the back under pressure, can't score or defend set pieces, struggle to break teams down, cant dominate against top teams same old counterattack tactic and happy to settle for a 0-0. Yes we got more points but progress is so slim even points wise that I find it as a waste of time.

It's like we are one mile away we got one yard closer and people are happy to call that progress.

 

[wolvored]

Interesting...you don’t help Oles case when you literally make things up.

We only lost to Burnley once and that was with Ole in charge. Apart from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were never “embarrassed” by Liverpool and City. In fact both beat them multiple times. LVG for all his faults won all four league games against Liverpool. Our home record under Mourinho is statistically better than our home record under anyone else. The only truth told in your post was the run of games at home under LVG when we couldn’t score a first half goal. I’m also not sure what the difference is between regularly losing to Swansea and Southampton to regularly losing to Crystal Palace and to whichever team finishes in the relegation zone.

Thanks you saved me a job answering

 

[Denis79]

The traditional way...league position!

I get bored of arguing with people on the Internet who try to tell me things haven’t improved. I sat there mate, every single week. £50 a ticket to watch 10 games without a goal at our end, being beaten on the regular by teams like Burnley, Southampton and Swansea. Being not just beaten but ruthlessly embarrassed against the likes of Liverpool and City game after game. If you’re trying to tell me things haven’t improved I must have dreamt those five years at sat in East Stand and watched horrorshow after horrorshow

Ehm what? You just started watching United the last two years?

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Would you rather see the club going all out to buy ''proven world class players'' or getting rid of the big names and gambling on youth players ?

Did Liverpool win and the league by going all out on big names? Apart from VVD from Southampton, and Alison from Roma, none of their signings were big names.

Even City don’t sign “big names” they have in the past signed the best players in the 21-24 year age bracket but none of those signings were for fees like say £120m. Initially they went after “big names” eg Robinho etc but it didn’t really get them anywhere

Great teams are built by a mixture of things. I still think this season, with a more tactically astute and obsessed to win manager we could have drawn less games and might have taken it to last day and maybe even won the league.

 

[Sky1981]

 

[Le Red]

I think Ole peaked as far as what he could achieve with this squad. EL final and 2nd place in a year where everyone bar City underperformed seems about right. I don't think any amount of experience will make him turn up a notch.
He has merits. He layed the foundation for a rejuvenated squad in sync with the "United way". That's not negligible, but in order to be at the top of the world you need something more.
He's one bad season away of exiting the club through the back door and that's not how I want to see him go.