5 stabbed in Dublin | 3 of them children

Abraxas said:
It would help if the current governments started listening to people.

It might not be apparent on here because there seems to be a cult like adherence to left wing ideology on everything from gender issues to religion to immigration, which sees anyone that ventures off that path rounded upon as we saw with a poster earlier in this thread after fairly innocuous comments. I think there's always a righteousness and one upmanship online that doesn't always represent genuinely held views but more like massaging online reputations.

But in the real world there are significant numbers of people genuinely sick of seeing ridiculous levels of immigration and the issues it causes while governments singularly fail to address problems. It was even an office conversation in my workplace, ordinary people that are a bit fed up of it! That's why we're seeing a huge verge to the right in certain quarters, some of which go way too far and extreme. There are many that are just looking for a different political option that can actually be trusted to tackle the issue, and unfortunately it does present an opportunity for those that are violent to exploit that gap.
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The collapsing infrastructure and social impacts that are a by product of the asset stripping approach to Government that has been prevalent across most of Europe since the 80s are the issue and that's what people should be sick of. Over in the UK, immigration has dominated politics for a considerable time and is the dead cat of choice for any situation, but the reason my country is fecked is bugger all to do with immigration.

You're absolutely right about different political options. Whilst I'm not remotely sufficiently familiar with Eire's politics to comment, in the UK any genuinely viable alternative to the status quo, that isn't rampant nationalist ant immigration bollocks, is smothered and crushed. You don't want an Irish version of UKIP turning up on the scene - it'll only make things much worse. I imagine that SF, somewhat similar to the SNP in Scotland, curtail the worst of this nationalist crap in Eire as they are a natural tempering force due to their generally more progressive positions softening the political ecosystem somewhat but, certainly in the UK, I can't see any alternative emerging anytime soon. It just won't be allowed.
 
Massive Spanner said:
128k now. That's a weekend break in a Dublin hotel!
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You love to see it. Ireland is great like this, most people are trying to be as sound and kind as possible we are just being divided and dicked over by our politicians. I bet he’ll end up with a few hundred k and he thoroughly deserves it. I hope his life is easier after this.
 
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Abraxas said:
It would help if the current governments started listening to people.

It might not be apparent on here because there seems to be a cult like adherence to left wing ideology on everything from gender issues to religion to immigration, which sees anyone that ventures off that path rounded upon as we saw with a poster earlier in this thread after fairly innocuous comments. I think there's always a righteousness and one upmanship online that doesn't always represent genuinely held views but more like massaging online reputations.

But in the real world there are significant numbers of people genuinely sick of seeing ridiculous levels of immigration and the issues it causes while governments singularly fail to address problems. It was even an office conversation in my workplace, ordinary people that are a bit fed up of it! That's why we're seeing a huge verge to the right in certain quarters, some of which go way too far and extreme. There are many that are just looking for a different political option that can actually be trusted to tackle the issue, and unfortunately it does present an opportunity for those that are violent to exploit that gap.
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Honestly this is the shit that people say when they don’t know the real problem, “there taking our houses” the reality is we have enough houses for everyone, it’s not a housing crisis in Ireland it’s an administration crisis and a dereliction crisis, as seen in mallow earlier this year in a council house a man lay dead for 20 years.
 
Tincanalley said:
Mental post. Hilarious, really. Caf is very middle of the road. What kind of political spectrum sees this place as having a cult-like adherence to the left. Utter madness.
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There isn’t a cult like adherence to the left, but I wouldn’t exactly call it middle of the road either. It can be an echo chamber on particular issues and consequently isn’t really representative, but then that probably applies to most forums.
 
Tincanalley said:
Mental post. Hilarious, really. Caf is very middle of the road. What kind of political spectrum sees this place as having a cult-like adherence to the left. Utter madness.
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Well, okay, I'll explain why I think that with a couple of examples but I could be here all day reeling them off. Rather than just coming up with a low effort post such as your reply.

1) Religion. it is routinely mocked on here, and as much as people would like to seperate politics from religion - the fact remains left leaning ideology runs counter to Christian teaching, one could say it's a hallmark, it was probably its foundational ideology as it tends to be an inversion of scripture. It would have neccessarily been connected to religion in the past due to the values politics is attempting to uphold, it's only because we are so far along the road of staunch athiesm that they are now different entites. Out with that goes a lot of traditional conservative values of the past, many of which made this country more community and family based than it is now - now there is fracture and huge discontent which we are seeing in events like yesterday, protests, regular looting of stores and general crime and disorder in urban locations (heavily underreported in the media by the way - every shop around here needs guards). That will be chalked up to not being liberal enough and because the government isn't progressive enough by leftists, it's actually as much about a loss of purpose and direction in people's lives as government incompetence in my opinion. There seem to be islands of isolation in this country based on all kinds of things, whether it be age, economic opportunity, ethnicity - whereas in the past Christianity would have been a mechanism for bonding and coming together irrespective of those things.

Anyway, that was a digression, my main point is...that thread is constantly updated with mocking, showing the worst possible elements, which of course can be done for athiesm or agnosticism so it's a nonsense really, never does it get into the great things Christian communities do. For me that's not centre in the way I see centre, it's not balanced enough in its treatment to call it that and certainly somebody that is right of centre and a commited Christian would find that disapointing. So if you're saying this is the new centre and attempts to find the middle ground, the balanced view rather than the left then that speaks for itself I suppose.

2) Say anything against immigration and you have 5 people quoting you within an hour ready to take up arms against you. This doesn't exactly require being a card carrying member of the National Front in order to be met with this response, it arises simply by virtue of questioning immigration policy based on statistics and detriment caused. My theory is its to do with the topic being so tied up and bogged down in ideas of xenophobia, racism and predjudice, it makes it very hard to get into the nuts and bolts of the issue for what it is. Again, this doesn't actually happen in the real world, there tends to be more sympathy for the view that immigration is massively excessive and detrimental among very ordinary people in my experience. Not so on here. So this gives me reason to think either this place is very leftist, or more likely there is a form of e-peer pressure that people are filtering their views through.
 
moses said:
Personally I think this is dangerous nonsense. To think this rising right wing rhetoric is a reaction to imaginary Marxism is part of the problem. And lazy mimicry of the american narrative, where it's also untrue.

Ireland is an austerity riddled neo liberal wet dream. It's got a new but scandalous housing problem and the state is gladly overseeing the dismantling of public health.
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I'm not that familiar with the right wing in Ireland specifically, but I think this is often a bit misunderstood. While you might hear street protesters looking for a fight and talk show hosts rant about Marxism, I think a lot of European right wingers are very well aware that we live in a neo liberal world. That is the system they want to tear down. Marxism as an imaginary enemy might help them achieve popularity, but I think the people on the top in these various right wing movements know very well that it's the various neoliberal centrist coalitions who actually stand in their way.

How many of the people voting for them are aware of it, I don't know.
 
Abraxas said:
Well, okay, I'll explain why I think that with a couple of examples but I could be here all day reeling them off. Rather than just coming up with a low effort post such as your reply.

1) Religion. it is routinely mocked on here, and as much as people would like to seperate politics from religion - the fact remains left leaning ideology runs counter to Christian teaching, one could say it's a hallmark, it was probably its foundational ideology as it tends to be an inversion of scripture. It would have neccessarily been connected to religion in the past due to the values politics is attempting to uphold, it's only because we are so far along the road of staunch athiesm that they are now different entites. Out with that goes a lot of traditional conservative values of the past, many of which made this country more community and family based than it is now - now there is fracture and huge discontent which we are seeing in events like yesterday, protests, regular looting of stores and general crime and disorder in urban locations (heavily underreported in the media by the way - every shop around here needs guards). That will be chalked up to not being liberal enough and because the government isn't progressive enough by leftists, it's actually as much about a loss of purpose and direction in people's lives as government incompetence in my opinion. There seem to be islands of isolation in this country based on all kinds of things, whether it be age, economic opportunity, ethnicity - whereas in the past Christianity would have been a mechanism for bonding and coming together irrespective of those things.
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The idea that individualism is a component of left wing ideology and community a right wing one make me think that you're obfuscating between liberalism and socialism. The latter is very much a community based ideology, the principles of which can quite easily be derived from the teachings of Christ. Meanwhile Thatcher was announcing the end of society and the US remains one of the most individualistic countries on Earth despite being born of the protestant revolution. Basically you're playing fast and loose with definitions to come up with conclusions that you like. What you think is rational analysis is just evidence of your own motivated reasoning.
 
A desperately depressing evening. I have 3 teenage lads myself and am teaching in a secondary school in a disadvantaged Dublin suburb. I'm painfully aware of the shit being bombed at them on social media and of how many of them don't have sensible, tolerant heads around them to talk about the shit they're reading. It's hard being young these days.

On a side note, I'm a calm sort of chap but I feel a genuine hatred for Conor McGregor.
 
Abraxas said:
Well, okay, I'll explain why I think that with a couple of examples but I could be here all day reeling them off. Rather than just coming up with a low effort post such as your reply.

1) Religion. it is routinely mocked on here, and as much as people would like to seperate politics from religion - the fact remains left leaning ideology runs counter to Christian teaching, one could say it's a hallmark, it was probably its foundational ideology as it tends to be an inversion of scripture. It would have neccessarily been connected to religion in the past due to the values politics is attempting to uphold, it's only because we are so far along the road of staunch athiesm that they are now different entites. Out with that goes a lot of traditional conservative values of the past, many of which made this country more community and family based than it is now - now there is fracture and huge discontent which we are seeing in events like yesterday, protests, regular looting of stores and general crime and disorder in urban locations (heavily underreported in the media by the way - every shop around here needs guards). That will be chalked up to not being liberal enough and because the government isn't progressive enough by leftists, it's actually as much about a loss of purpose and direction in people's lives as government incompetence in my opinion. There seem to be islands of isolation in this country based on all kinds of things, whether it be age, economic opportunity, ethnicity - whereas in the past Christianity would have been a mechanism for bonding and coming together irrespective of those things.

Anyway, that was a digression, my main point is...that thread is constantly updated with mocking, showing the worst possible elements, which of course can be done for athiesm or agnosticism so it's a nonsense really, never does it get into the great things Christian communities do. For me that's not centre in the way I see centre, it's not balanced enough in its treatment to call it that and certainly somebody that is right of centre and a commited Christian would find that disapointing. So if you're saying this is the new centre and attempts to find the middle ground, the balanced view rather than the left then that speaks for itself I suppose.

2) Say anything against immigration and you have 5 people quoting you within an hour ready to take up arms against you. This doesn't exactly require being a card carrying member of the National Front in order to be met with this response, it arises simply by virtue of questioning immigration policy based on statistics and detriment caused. My theory is its to do with the topic being so tied up and bogged down in ideas of xenophobia, racism and predjudice, it makes it very hard to get into the nuts and bolts of the issue for what it is. Again, this doesn't actually happen in the real world, there tends to be more sympathy for the view that immigration is massively excessive and detrimental among very ordinary people in my experience. Not so on here. So this gives me reason to think either this place is very leftist, or more likely there is a form of e-peer pressure that people are filtering their views through.
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As you ignored my first post challenging your nonsense let me reiterate that lots of this is again nonsense. Untruths mixed with tropes.

Socialist thought is not counter to the Christian message, it's counter to the lack of science and strict hierarchal nature of the church.

It wasn't the Christian message that was counter to socialism, as you point out it was the "conservativism", ie we have what we hold. Thoughout history it is always the privileged and oppressors that are 'conservative'.

And point 2 is literally a long winded version of 'you can't say anything anymore'. Take up arms against you? That's quite sensationalist no?

Give me one example of a thought-out criticism of immigration you have given that has been rounded on?

The idea that immigration is massively detrimental amongst ordinary people is based on what do you think? Is it an ecomonic argument that runs any deeper than 'look after your own'? I'd like to hear it if so.

Also what is an ordinary person in your opinion?

Most of the ordinary people I know are fairly understanding of the needs of refugees and the benefits of immigration.
 
pierrethesnack said:
I'm not that familiar with the right wing in Ireland specifically, but I think this is often a bit misunderstood. While you might hear street protesters looking for a fight and talk show hosts rant about Marxism, I think a lot of European right wingers are very well aware that we live in a neo liberal world. That is the system they want to tear down. Marxism as an imaginary enemy might help them achieve popularity, but I think the people on the top in these various right wing movements know very well that it's the various neoliberal centrist coalitions who actually stand in their way.

How many of the people voting for them are aware of it, I don't know.
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Oh the people at the top know well. The Marxist demon is just a device they use. It works too.

Fenimists are Marxists, BLM are Marxists, you can't say anything anymore because of the Marxists. The universities are run by Marxists.

Marxists everywhere!!!!

There have been studies that show only a very small % of people who vote for basically racist parties in are ideologically right wing or racist, it's mostly just anger, usually utterly justified anger, just hugely misdirected. And very confused nationalism. This is where Sinn Fein do us a good service. They occupy a lot of those who love flags and mythological symbolism.

The right in Ireland have made no impact at the polls but have been very active since the last time we voted. I think we will be OK, but the the next election will be interesting. The worrying thing is that they appear to be very well funded so they can endure failure and just keep plugging away.
 
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I'm waiting for the right wingers to pull a character assassination on this lad. Hope he gets all the money that has been donated, could end up with a gaff somewhere off the back of it, well deserved.
 
Imagine thinking more religion would in any way have stopped or mitigated this tragedy.
 
Ali Dia said:
You love to see it. Ireland is great like this, most people are trying to be as sound and kind as possible we are just being divided and dicked over by our politicians. I bet he’ll end up with a few hundred k and he thoroughly deserves it. I hope his life is easier after this.
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Absolutely. Just shy of 200k now.
 
The pictures from Dublin this morning are awful. Tens of millions of damage caused and people from the city in serious fear.

They need to make an example of those arrested (I’m sure they’ll be more in coming weeks too).
 
TheReligion said:
The pictures from Dublin this morning are awful. Tens of millions of damage caused and people from the city in serious fear.

They need to make an example of those arrested (I’m sure they’ll be more in coming weeks too).
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Really grim, the scale of it is new to us.
 
Still ill said:
A desperately depressing evening. I have 3 teenage lads myself and am teaching in a secondary school in a disadvantaged Dublin suburb. I'm painfully aware of the shit being bombed at them on social media and of how many of them don't have sensible, tolerant heads around them to talk about the shit they're reading. It's hard being young these days.

On a side note, I'm a calm sort of chap but I feel a genuine hatred for Conor McGregor.
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Good man, I’d hate to think he’s any kind of role model.
 
hobbers said:
Not entirely sure why he's had 2x the donations of the gofundme for the actual victims but whatever.
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It's had probably 10 times the exposure.

Until you mentioned it I didn't know there was one for the victims.
 
Oranges038 said:
Of course it would. This country went down hill fast once the church weren't let get away with battering, raping and abusing the young people in submission.




A great bunch of lads.
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I’m man enough to say I stand corrected when shown my error. You have made me see the light.
 
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