Ole always preached about "having a plan". So he buys players to suit a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1. Tries to implement a more attacking style and we turn to shit. So now we're back to this defensive setup and i have no clue what he's going to do next. And you what, i reckon he has no clue either.
3-5-2 formation this season for United?
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
As if our promotion of youth weren’t pathetic enough under Ole. I really hope this doesn’t stick.
I’m seeing a lot of people going along this line talking about a back 3. Claiming it won’t work against defensive teams. Teams of Watfords level have been getting results against us from counter attacking and we’ve been left with a back 2 and outnumbered using a back 4. Our full backs have been consistently out of position and without a true defensive midfielder (neither Fred or mctominey are defensive midfielders, they don’t smell danger) we’ve been wide open. A back 3 formation will work perfectly against lesser teams if we choose more attacking options through the middle of the park. Pogba/Bruno could drop deeper and throw a front 3 out there too as a few people have mentioned. 3-4-3 against defensive teams will be a nightmare for them. They will struggle to create chances and with the fire power we have I’m confident we would score against teams dropping deep. Just take a look at Chelsea and how 3 at the back had transformed them from an average team (with defensive frailties) to champions league winners and in with a great shot of a league title.
Based on that, 3-5-2 is the same as 4-1-2-1-2 or 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 or 3-1-4-1-1. It is always 10 players, isn't it?...
You simply don't get it. People were moaning about how we'd fit our wide attackers and wingers like Sancho in. Plus how we'd supposedly be hindered vs low blocks. I was simply pointing out how it's hardly a serious concern.
What will matter is our intent with the formation. Do we want to be on the front foot or to absorb and counter.
I actually think this formation suits the likes of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood. Playing up front with the licence to drop deep and drift wide, and less defensive responsibility.
If you mean all that, maybe next time add it to your post and relieve people of the necessity to read your mind. You gave one short sentence. One. With an at least debatable statement. Reading your explanation, I share your opinion though.
Diallo had played 40 minutes of first team football before we bought him and was 18. He obviously wasn’t a player for now.
Telles should come in to remind Shaw he isn’t undroppable.
Maybe even Bailly could be trusted with Varane in the middle controlling him?
Maybe even Bailly could be trusted with Varane in the middle controlling him?
This formation falls apart once we get any kind of injury at CB. We only really have Bailly and possibly Luke Shaw who could cover at LCB if someone gets injured. Our squad has clearly been built for 4 at the back.
There will also be a lot of disgruntled attackers if we play this for any length of time.
There will also be a lot of disgruntled attackers if we play this for any length of time.
You can always switch to 3-4-3 if you need more width and rest Bruno.
Replace Bruno and Cavani with Rashford and Sancho and you have a variation in attack without compromising the defensive structure.
It also uses Magure and Lindelofs ability to carry the ball into midfield if man marked.
Replace Bruno and Cavani with Rashford and Sancho and you have a variation in attack without compromising the defensive structure.
It also uses Magure and Lindelofs ability to carry the ball into midfield if man marked.
Mate, Ole tried 4-2-31/4-3-3 with best available playersto him but when they failed to deliver over 10 games he has to change that formation to bring back the confidence. F|irst clean sheet yesterday and played well so I really dont care about players he bought for few days.....Having said that I would love to see |Rashford/Sancho on wings but I am sure that will come in given time.
Whne chips are down we need to build the confidence by winning few games then we can try what ever we want ......so please stop criticising Ole for every thing he does
I think 3-4-3 suits us better. Don't then have to leave out all of Sancho/Rashford/Greenwood. Bruno would have to play as one of the two midfielders but with the protection of the 3 cb's and in majority of games, teams sitting back against us, should be fine...
De Gea
Maguire Varane Shaw
AWB Bruno Mctominay/Fred Telles
Sancho Cavani/Ronaldo Rashford
Then can rotate the two in midfield with Pogba, Matic or VdB and Greenwood for Sancho/Rashford.
De Gea
Maguire Varane Shaw
AWB Bruno Mctominay/Fred Telles
Sancho Cavani/Ronaldo Rashford
Then can rotate the two in midfield with Pogba, Matic or VdB and Greenwood for Sancho/Rashford.
Yeah, I understand the love for Cavani and Ronaldo, they were excellent yesterday - but with this 5-3-2 with a forward line with a combined age of 70 we're once again in the Mourinho era: we aren't competing with the best in the present and we aren't building anything for the future either.
This is the team that I would pick aswell and I think its perfect for us. And I think we should be using it from now on. Conte probably would also line up like this.
It worked yesterday with Ole’s back up against the wall, but let’s see how they do in these next couple games. I have never been a fan of 3 at the back but I understand that the defense is shaky right now and Ole’s preferred system is using players who are stranding the already weak midfield into impossible positions. I remember Ole trying this against leipzig in the last group stage game and it was a pathetic display defensively. Maybe the more important thing is that Ole or the next manager demand more out of the attacking players to do a job both ways. If you don’t do that you don’t play.
3-5-2 would be OK. But we played 5 2 1 2 and wasted so much talent at the bench. Shaw and AWB were no wingbacks. Ole just focused on defensive and hoped our 3!!! offensiv players would use their individual brilliance. This formation and tactic has just one goal, save Ole's job. We will have better results against top teams and will struggle against alle the teams which park the bus too.
A good manager would use the great talent would drill the tactics to defend, to press and to attack. Everyone would see improvement, we would see the domance coming back to Old Trafford. But Ole does not have the knowledge the ideas to work with this team and talent.
5-2-1-2 should be played by teams battling against relegation, not by United. We have some of the greatest attacking players on this world, but no plan how to use them, how to us their strengths.....
A good manager would use the great talent would drill the tactics to defend, to press and to attack. Everyone would see improvement, we would see the domance coming back to Old Trafford. But Ole does not have the knowledge the ideas to work with this team and talent.
5-2-1-2 should be played by teams battling against relegation, not by United. We have some of the greatest attacking players on this world, but no plan how to use them, how to us their strengths.....
If we can go with 352 with shaw and bissaka as our width then can we not just go 41212 or is Maguire just that much of liability to be any use in a back 4?
_________de gea
Bissaka_varane_maguire_shaw
___________matic
__mctominay__fred
__________bruno
_____cavani__ronaldo
Surely this would be a better alternative against better opposition so that we can get some control of midfield
_________de gea
Bissaka_varane_maguire_shaw
___________matic
__mctominay__fred
__________bruno
_____cavani__ronaldo
Surely this would be a better alternative against better opposition so that we can get some control of midfield
I am not a fan of a back 5 (or 3, la) but if it stops the trend of leaking 2-5 goals every game then happy to stick to it for now.
But he has to rotate the front three, even at times completely for example Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho for Bruno, Ronaldo and Cavani. But then there would be a significant drop in work rate which we cannot afford.
Or mix it up with Fred/Matic, DvB/McTom and Bruno/Sancho + two of Rashford/Greenwood/Cavani/Ronaldo.
Telles and Shaw also need to rotate and Dalot (despite being rather useless) also needs to play from time to time, otherwise AWB will get tired again. Oh and play Bailly too as Maguire and Varane shouldn’t play every game.
But he has to rotate the front three, even at times completely for example Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho for Bruno, Ronaldo and Cavani. But then there would be a significant drop in work rate which we cannot afford.
Or mix it up with Fred/Matic, DvB/McTom and Bruno/Sancho + two of Rashford/Greenwood/Cavani/Ronaldo.
Telles and Shaw also need to rotate and Dalot (despite being rather useless) also needs to play from time to time, otherwise AWB will get tired again. Oh and play Bailly too as Maguire and Varane shouldn’t play every game.
Agree. Even though I like back four setup, this new formation could probably draw several fringe players in and still produce a winning foundation. It requires a very compact shape and therefore has to be well drilled. We were very rusty in the formation and we could have been behind (thankfully, AWB bailed us out). The team will have to play this formation consistently to be fluent. Against Atlantic, we will sense if Ole wants this as our direction.
Anything is better than the 4-2-4 formation we've been using but we're likely going to upset a few of Sancho/Martial/Lingard/Greenwood/Rashford which isn't good for the long run, there already seems to be discontent among the squad. That is Ole's fault though for creating such an unbalanced squad.
Not making effective use of Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho is a sackable offence in itself yet some are actually pleased with this plan going forward.
As long as we can get results, I don't care who we bench. Results are all that matters now. We've had enough nonsense.
It is really strange because the strongest Ole supporters have for 3 years spoken about attacking football, youth, pace etc compared to Mourinho yet are now happy to tell those young players to suck it up and sit on the bench.
As others have said I think a 3-5-2 could be used for big games and a 3-4-3 could be used for games against smaller teams.
All players fit and I think the two teams could line up like this,
De Gea
AWB Lindelof Varane Maguire Shaw
Fred Pogba
Bruno
Ronaldo Cavani
De Gea
Lindelof Varane Shaw
AWB Fred PogbaTelles
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
Only thing with either formation is that big players are always going to miss out, Ole has been buying players for the past 3 years to eventually work towards a 4-3-3, so we don’t really have a squad suited towards a 5 at the back system.
All players fit and I think the two teams could line up like this,
De Gea
AWB Lindelof Varane Maguire Shaw
Fred Pogba
Bruno
Ronaldo Cavani
De Gea
Lindelof Varane Shaw
AWB Fred PogbaTelles
Sancho Ronaldo Rashford
Only thing with either formation is that big players are always going to miss out, Ole has been buying players for the past 3 years to eventually work towards a 4-3-3, so we don’t really have a squad suited towards a 5 at the back system.
Goalposts will always be shifted.
I think the game against Spurs is a special one considering the situation. The experience added for the radical change of the system is critical. Everyone knows we can’t start the same two upfront every game. It will be different players getting used. Martial probably can perform better in this setup. The issue is none of Greenwood, Rashford, Martial are good at header. Sign~
Fair points, but I can’t see the squad as a whole physiologically responding well to sitting with a back three against clubs Watford and Norwich. We have stallions who need to run but would not respond well to this tactic month after month, regardless of the opponent.
It would be a demonstration of professional maturity for us to modify our tactics depending on the opponent. We dropped points to Leicester City not because we didn’t play a back three but because Maguire was not even close to being fit. IMO Ole needs to be more courageous dropping his undroppables when they should be Stoppard, as well as managing his tactics to maximize the exploitation of the opposition’s weaknesses.
True. 4-2-3-1 stopped working us suddenly with many reasons. Too many international games and injuries since the end of the last season. Fred, Maguire, Shaw, McT are all trying to work up their fitness at the moment. Maguire is probably the worst of them all.
It’s been a bit of a crazy last few months for many of our players. The mental and physical fitness issues with Shaw and Maguire, Rashford being out, the challenge of adapting to Ronaldo. We know the story and on some level they’re all excuses, but also legitimate explanations. Ole should have known better than to rush Maguire back and he should have known better than to try to beat Liverpool using naive tactics with players who proved they were out of form because they weren’t fit.
I can go on, but here we are. It does come down to whether the board have the balls to do what they should, but since this thread is about the formation the clear answer is that we should bring out different tactics for different circumstances.
Because in reality none of them care about the future of the club or the players. They just care about reliving a moment in 1999 when they were kids. There's no footballing reason to keep this manager but they continue to find excuses and reasons to do so but won't admit they're just as nepotistic as the Glazers.
The next step is basically just dictated to by results. We've become entirely for the short term now. Like it's pretty obvious this team will be the XI vs City now, if it wins it will be the go to for a while, if it loses, it will probably be ditched after that on to something else like about the other half dozen thing we've tried.
I don't think we've really stumbled upon anything given we've had these formations/setups we've apparently stumbled upon before leading to nothing. The formation isn't even tested yet in real big games, like it's being talked about as a go to in the big games, we used it vs a very poor Tottenham side who will finish mid-table, let's see how it does vs City/Chelsea we have coming up before claiming it's the road to big game success.
I think this formation benefits Maguire the most.
Only in the long term does this matter. Short termism otherwise just leads to long term failure as you aren't building anything.
We've been told that there's a long term vision/project at the club continually over the last years. If this lineup is the future that clearly isn't true when we're benching basically all our young players, and players we chased for ages. So such a project has to immediate results otherwise people are quite rightly going to ask what is the point. This was already true when Ronaldo was brought it that it become about delivering now, but is even more true if this is the setup. Given we finished 2nd last season, if the best we can hope for is top 4 this season, and this team isn't delivering trophies, then where is the progress?
It all just reeks of desperation to do anything to save a job rather than the foundations to actually getting Utd back winning things again.
I have been thinking about the same thing. The people that where vehemently against pretty much all alternatives have no arguments anymore Ole is defensive and focus on older players when his job is on the line.
Just sell some of the attackers and buy more defenders.
Or else, buy 2 very good midfielders to replace McFred, and switch back to 4 defenders set up. But this won't be easy. We will need 2 really good ones to make reliable double pivot work, or whatever you called it, and not get outplayed.
People keep switching it to a 343 to accommodate our players. But I really believe one of Ole's major issues at United has actually been his ability to get wingers into the game. I actually think if worked on, the narrow formations actually work better for him and his actual style.
1. if you look at our goals and movement, our forward players are already rather narrow. a 4231 or something similar forces our wingers to need to create width without really having the support from Ole to do so. Playing narrow actually allows us to stay in the natural positions Ole's set up brings. Due to the lack of movement we have, it may be better for us to have the balance of steady positioning.
2. It means we only have 2 players sitting high up the pitch waiting for the ball rather than the 4 we see at times in the 4231. Again our lack of movement comes into play ( which is a tactical issue). If we natually have some of those players deeper and ready to support play, rather than higher up the pitch, it may help us build up much quicker.
3. Rashford, Greenwood and Ronaldo may actually work best as part of a two. In addition, I also believe Sancho can work well as a second striker if given the chance. Add that to Cavani and Martial, and we have a lot of forward options that can fit in those two positions. In addition, Pogba and Bruno can operate together in this system or swap with each other, depending on what we are looking for.
4. Our defence with Ole benefits from the natural cover the system provides.
I'm not saying its my favourite formation or it fits the type of squad we currently have, but its a system that might fit Ole moving forward. I would love to see how the diamond or a very narrow 442 would look too. My feeling is that Ole doesn't really know how to make use of wide players and as a result we lose balance and control of games, particularly as we don't have a deep lying playmaker.
1. if you look at our goals and movement, our forward players are already rather narrow. a 4231 or something similar forces our wingers to need to create width without really having the support from Ole to do so. Playing narrow actually allows us to stay in the natural positions Ole's set up brings. Due to the lack of movement we have, it may be better for us to have the balance of steady positioning.
2. It means we only have 2 players sitting high up the pitch waiting for the ball rather than the 4 we see at times in the 4231. Again our lack of movement comes into play ( which is a tactical issue). If we natually have some of those players deeper and ready to support play, rather than higher up the pitch, it may help us build up much quicker.
3. Rashford, Greenwood and Ronaldo may actually work best as part of a two. In addition, I also believe Sancho can work well as a second striker if given the chance. Add that to Cavani and Martial, and we have a lot of forward options that can fit in those two positions. In addition, Pogba and Bruno can operate together in this system or swap with each other, depending on what we are looking for.
4. Our defence with Ole benefits from the natural cover the system provides.
I'm not saying its my favourite formation or it fits the type of squad we currently have, but its a system that might fit Ole moving forward. I would love to see how the diamond or a very narrow 442 would look too. My feeling is that Ole doesn't really know how to make use of wide players and as a result we lose balance and control of games, particularly as we don't have a deep lying playmaker.
Exactly. Nowhere land.
Why do people put Shaw as an option for one of the outside centre backs but not Wan Bissaka?
Surely WB would be ideal in that position instead of as a wing back?
Or is it the sheer lack of right wing back options if not him?
Surely WB would be ideal in that position instead of as a wing back?
Or is it the sheer lack of right wing back options if not him?
He played 3 5 2 to give the defenders a moral boost and to send a message to his wide forwards to work better for the defensive duties which has been a real issue for us lately.